Wednesday, January 6, 2016

Rod Meredith is not happy that LCG members are "sitting on millions of dollars worth of money and property" instead of giving it to the church.



Rod Meredith has sent another missive to his flock.  (See: Personal  Pray for our Financial Growth!

It starts out with his usual doom and gloom.  Persecution and suffering are soon to fall upon the Living Church of God because it has such a "forceful" message" to preach...say what?

The problem Dear brethren is that you are not sending in enough money to make us a "forceful" work the preaches truth without any reservations or hindrances.  Silly brethren!  Its all YOUR fault once again.  Its not that the message that Meredith and crew are preaching is not relevant, but its because you are not sending in money!  For shame!

Like any good Church of God splinter group, Meredith cannot write without comparing himself to Herbert Armstrong.  Lets face it Rod, 30 years after HWA's death and you STILL cannot even come close to matching what HWA accomplished.  However, Meredith is delusion if he actually things the church had an income increase of 30% every single year for 35 years.  

Brethren, as the end of this age approaches, and as the power of our Work increases, there will undoubtedly be great persecution in the years just ahead. Each of us needs to beseech God to grant us—and all of our brethren—the faith and the courage to keep going and growing! We need to encourage one another in this and help each one to “buckle up” for the rough ride ahead! Again, as I have reminded you over the years, always keep your mind on the “Big Picture” of God’s great Plan and how He always tries and tests each one of us before we are made full sons in His soon-coming Kingdom. One special prayer that I would ask all of you to join me in praying is this: let us all together beseech God to grant us in this Work at least half of the financial increase that He gave Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong for about 35 years! For, as Mr. Armstrong explained many times, God gave the Work under his direction about 30 percent increase year by year for about 35 years.
Thirty years after HWA's death and Meredith cannot come up with something new.  His message can't be reimagined for the 21st century.  He still looks back with warm fuzzies at days gone by.  The Living Church of God will NEVER accomplish what HWA did or the COG did decades ago. Meredith's message and that of the Living Church of God does NOT shake the world and never will.  Knowing he is impotent in doing such a work, Meredith declares that the LCG needs to settle for half of what HWA accomplished.  In order for that 15% increase to happen the members need to give more money.  However, Meredith says he can't make members give that much money, so he scares them by stating that God is watching them to see what they give.
Perhaps none of us have the tremendous personalities and magnetism that the Armstrongs had. But God Almighty is still alive, He is working through us right now, and—as these terrible end-time events approach—we really need to shake the world with the knowledge of His Kingdom far more than we have ever done. Remember, brethren, we are only “beginning to fight.” We have not yet finished! So again, since Jesus told us: “ask and you shall receive,” we can with faith ask God to give us at least one-half of the financial increase He gave His Church all those years when Mr. and Mrs. Armstrong were still alive and doing the Work. That would be a 15 percent financial increase of this Work year by year. I hope all of you will sincerely and zealously do your part. But I am not going to “press you” on that. For that is up to you and between you and God as you “walk with Him” in the fear of God. But I feel that God would want us to cry out and ask Him for the blessing that I have already indicated. Then, we could go on far more television stations, greatly increase our impact over the Internet—which is certainly the “wave of the future”—increase our personal appearance campaigns and “grow” the Work in every possible way. 

Being the most sinless and ever humble Church of God leader to ever to follow Herbert Armstrong, Meredith claims asking for money has always been hard for him.  Though he glosses over how he freely took money from a few people to help start Global and then Living after he apostatized a second time to start LCG.

When I first began this present Work back in 1992, I was a little embarrassed to ask for money. For all those years I was helping Mr. Armstrong—even as Second Vice President for about twelve years—I did not have the responsibility to directly ask for money. Mr. Armstrong did. So he wrote truly powerful and stirring co-worker letters in those days. If you read some of the old co-worker letters today, as many of you brethren have kept some of them, they were almost “hair-raising” in the power they had! It might be offensive to some of our newer brethren in our more liberal, worldly society today. But because this world so desperately needs what we have to give, I urge you to join me along with our top ministers in beseeching God to grant us at least 15 percent increase in our financial resources year by year and therefore enable us to really get goinfar beyond what we have yet done so this world will have a powerful “witness” of the Plan of God, of the reality of the soon-coming Government of God over this earth, and a genuine understanding of the true Jesus Christ of the Bible. May God inspire all of you to get involved in this way!

Being the most humble Church of God leader ever, I wonder if Meredith will actually put on sack cloth and ashes as he suggests below.  We know this will never happen.  Its too easy to sit in a warm home or a mahogany paneled office and pretend to be humble and beg.

Dear brethren, some of you may wonder why I am coming on so strong at this time. But I hope that many of you—as I did—have taken the sermons and the wonderful experience we had at the Feast home and had the time to think and pray about how close we ought to be to God, about what we really ought to be doing and how this world so desperately needs the full Truth. Down through history, as you know, many of God’s leading servants went through periods when they cried out to God for special help and blessings. Remember the time when Daniel came to realize the tremendous need for God to intervene as he began to fully realize that the 70 years of desolation of Jerusalem were almost over: “Then I set my face toward the Lord God to make request by prayer and supplications, with fasting, sackcloth, and ashes. And I prayed to the Lord my God, and made confession, and said, ‘O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments’” (Daniel 9:3–4). He described his concern for “all Israel”—both near and far—who had been driven to countries all over because of their unfaithfulness to God and their spiritual weakness (v. 7). 
Next Meredith gets to the meat of the matter.  He is NOT happy that the LCG membership is SITTING on "hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars worth of money, property and other resources."
Many of you older brethren realize that something similar has happened to the Church of God today! After Mr. Armstrong’s death, God’s Church came apart in many ways. We have been truly scattered into many different groups and denominations. The power and effectiveness of the Work has been shattered beyond belief. All of the little groups that have clung to at least part of the Truth are literally unknown to 99 percent (or more!) of the world’s population! Most of you realize this. If you go around your neighborhood you find virtually no one who has heard of the Living Church of God or any of the other groups that are trying to do God’s Work today. This needs to change! So I hope all of us can begin to fast and to pray fervently and ask God to help us stir ourselves to do our part far more zealously and begin to serve our Creator with zeal and to give of our physical substance sacrificially as we are able. Some of our brethren are already doing this. But I am fully aware that many of our brethren—often fine brethren who mean well and who are already giving a little bit of their substance—are nevertheless sitting on hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars worth of money, property and other resources they very rarely touch to help do the Work of the living God at the very end of this age.
Think of it! 

As usual it is the members fault that the money is not flowing in.  Silly brethren!

Church, brethren were often filled with such zeal and such fervency that they were willing to open their hearts and their wallets to a degree far beyondwhat most of us are willing to do today. God’s Word tells us: “Now the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul; neither did anyone say that any of the things he possessed was his own, but they had all things in common.And with great power the apostles gave witness to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus. And great grace was upon them all.Nor was there anyone among them who lacked; for all who were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the proceeds of the things that were sold,and laid them at the apostles’ feet; and they distributed to each as anyone had need. And Joses, who was also named Barnabas by the apostles (which is translated Son of Encouragement), a Levite of the country of Cyprus,having land, sold it, and brought the money and laid it at the apostles’ feet” (Acts 4:32–37). God does not ask us to “have all things in common” as did these first-century Christians, but we can still be moved and inspired today by their great zeal. 

Meredith wants his membership to join him in this "crusade." For some reason the god of Armstrongism sure needs the blood of the unbelievers spilled onto ground in order for the faithful to be found righteous.  Onward Christian soldiers marching off to war.  Kill the infidel so God's kingdom be manifest and we can rule worlds.  The problem for LCG is that God's kingdom of brotherly love cannot happen because there is no love in the LCG.  Again, this the members fault.  LCG members just CAN'T get along for some reason. 

Once again, I am asking—as your pastor and friend—that you will “join me” in this crusade to ask God fervently for this financial increase, and that each one of you will try to do your part as best as you are able. I hope all of you can see the “signs” of the soon-coming end of this age. We all know what this means. We know that it means that we have just so much time to get out Christ’s message so that people all over the world will know that our God is real, and that He is now beginning to intervene with increasing power to set up His Kingdom on this earth. So, I pray we will all “get going” as never before. May God guide you, inspire you and bless you as you walk with Him. Let us all pray for one another that we can keep the zest of the Feast of Tabernacles going and growing in our personal lives day by day. I love you. I thank you so much for the love and the joy and the encouragement that you have continued to give, and I hope that you will join me in this crusade to ask God to give us even greater power than ever before—even in the financial part of the Work. Then we will be able, in this commercial society in which we live, to reach out even more powerfully than ever before. May God be with you.

Meredith loves to point out that growing "personal problems and growing sin within the church" led to the Worldwide Church of God's downfall. For some reason he cannot see that the very same thing is happening to his group.  Personal problems and sin in the LCG HQ and ministry is what is hampering his "work."  As one reader here wrote to me about this said, "For some reason he cannot connect that same scenario to the reasons his works is suffering financially."

This inside source says, "The truth of this money begging is not to  expand to the Internet and more TV stations, but it is to cover the huge debt they have already accrued."

This source goes on to say, "Word on the street is that they are ultimately phasing out TV all together but they haven't officially made that announcement yet so RCM feels he can still use it in his ridiculous plea for cash.

If God were going to bless LCG, would RCM really have to shamelessly beg, plead and psychologically manipulate members to give more? "


143 comments:

Anonymous said...

if my organization ever sent me a letter like that I'd be gone immediately...they'd never hear from me again.

as a matter of fact, if they ever sent me a letter that mentioned HWA like that I'd be gone.

Michael said...

"...many of our brethren—often fine brethren who mean well ... are nevertheless sitting on hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars worth of money, property and other resources"

This is just so absolutely pathetic and disgusting.
How dare any members have any funds anywhere that they are not giving to Rod's LCG.

The leaders are salivating at the thought of having those thousands/millions transferred to LCG control.

You have to stand in awe of the extreme hubris of their demand, an attempt to elicit feelings of guilt in order to make the members give more.

Byker Bob said...

Strictly speaking, Rod and the rest of the ACOGs are a poor investment. They splintered themselves up, rendering themselves ineffective in fulfilling their mission statements. This splintering is what their egos did to themselves, and when Rod passes, there will even be more splintering.

Hopefully these people he is hitting on are savy in the world of finance and recognize the foolishness of deepening therir roles as patrons of useless ACOGS, especially that of the one who rubs the fur the wrong way!

BB

Anonymous said...

Don't send a penny to this piece of crap!

Anonymous said...

Rod can set the example of sacrifice by living in a tent, wear hand me down cloths, have his ministers drive basic small cars and rent smaller homes. And why not have the ministers ride bicycles to church services as examples of sacrifice to members. Set an example for others Rod.

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith is a crippled widower living in a half-million dollar two-story house with no wife or children.

He could sell that house, move into a home still larger than Winnail's or Ames's, and have $300,000 left over to donate to LCG.

If Rod won't lead by example, why should LCG members let themselves be guilted into plundering their children's inheritances to fund more travel and more liquor for Rod's family members?

Minimalist said...

Has anyone got a google link to the Meredith mansion? I've got to see it! Does anyone know what the BIG Secret Six-Figure Salaries are for him, his son and the top five executives?

Senior citizen said...

Tithing was given to the Levites.
"There being a change in the priesthood, there is of necessity a change also in the law"
Tithing is over.

Jesus sent out his apostles without money. They did a "work" by the power of God.
What is wrong with the churches today? Why do they rely so heavily on money to preach?
Very ugly letter. Very sad situation.
I hope the people realize this is very wrong.

Black Ops Mikey said...

It's a cult.

Never bother to give anything to cults.

Anonymous said...

I know Rod well enough to know that he would just take and take from the millionaires until they were all used up then he would just spit them out.

In LCG, you are somebody as long as your check book is open. As soon as it's closed, you are nobody.

So Christian.

Anonymous said...

The Bible says it's good to leave an inheritance to our children but Rod would rather us forgo that and give it all to him so he can put in his personally held business (LCG) and leave it to HIS children as an inheritance. Makes perfect sense.

Anonymous said...

Hey Roddy Boy, any chance that you need more money because you have mis-spent the money you've already been given??? Any chance you need more money because God is NOT blessing your "work"??? Any chance that, in fact, God is punishing you for hurting so many people throughout the years???

This letter reflects exactly how pathetic Rod Meredith and his crooked cronies are. It's truly sickening.

Anonymous said...

I know a millionaire in KC LCG who they are courting with by fueling his ego with hopes of becoming a minister. Many of us who like the guy can see that he is just being used for his cash. It is kind of sad to watch. And to make it worse, I fear he will give up his cash just as LCG crumbles to pieces and it will all be for not.

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith is a crippled widower living in a half-million dollar two-story house with no wife or children.

Has his latest wife really died??? I remember when he laughed about his first wife's cancer (which she died of).
But, is it true that his second wife is now also deceased?

If so, maybe ex-Spanky-worshipper Booby Thiel keeps her corpse in his basement, so he can get his daily double dose of necrophilia on!

Anonymous said...

Answer to Jan 7 8:06 AM.... Yes and that same "millionaire" Can't keep his d&#% in his pants either. His is a known adulter. It went on for months under Gerald Weston's time in KC. And of course since he was a ministers kid...he stayed in church while she and her husband where put out. But you know it is "like father, like son" . Since his dad was put out of the ministry for the same problem., by Mr Armstrong himself. But when the son started making money, Meredith reinstated the dad....cause you know money can do anything in LCG. And now they want to make this guy a minister. Redickulas.
Yeah go ahead and make him a minister...and you will have the same problem again. But if you put someone in that position knowing he has a problem, You Are Liabil.

Connie Schmidt said...

Well, maybe Id shed a tear, and open my heart a bit to RCM if he had spent the last 63 years living in camel hair coats, eating wild locust and honey, and had "no place to lay his head".

Maybe even a tad bit of interest, if he lived in an apartment and drove a 1996 Hyundai with a couple hundred thousand miles on it, and bought his suits and the like at the thrift store, like the way many of the "brethren" get by.

Great leaders ALWAYS eat the same food as the troops.

Anonymous said...


“God does not ask us to 'have all things in common' as did these first-century Christians, but we can still be moved and inspired today by their great zeal.”--Roderick C. Meredith


The Living Church members are relatively lucky. It could be even worse, and actually is worse in some painful sliver groups.

For example, in the Restored Cash Grab (RCG), raging Dave Pack of lies said that if you truly fear God like you ought to, “you will obediently send 'common'--or no salvation if you don't.” Since this “common” idea was something that Herbert W. Armstrong had never taught in the Worldwide Church of God, and was just now supposedly being “restored” by David C. Pack, it became obvious to DCP that HWA could not have been the Elijah who was prophesied to restore ALL things, as HWA had claimed to be. So in 2015 DCP came up with what he called “130 PROOFS” that he himself must be Elijah. The previous thrill of calling himself Joshua the High Priest in his August 31, 2013 Haggai/Zechariah prophecy that failed (and failed again even when rescheduled for the springtime) must have worn off already. DCP also deleted his own book that he had written that supposedly proved that HWA was the prophesied Elijah. DCP had originally required RCG members to believe that HWA was the Elijah, and taught them to look down on Roderick Meredith for not believing it and for secretly desiring to be the Elijah himself. Now, DCP just gets angry at people who still believe that HWA was the Elijah, and bitterly calls them “idolaters.” Such greed! Such arrogance! Such anger and bitterness!


Connie Schmidt said...

NINE CHARACTERISTICS OF CHURCH BULLIES...

1. They do not recognize themselves as bullies. To the contrary, they see themselves as necessary heroes sent to save the church from her own self.

2. They have personal and self-serving agendas. They have determined what “their” church should look like. Any person or ministry or program that is contrary to their perceived ideal church must be eliminated.

3. They seek to form power alliances with weak members in the church. They will pester and convince groups, committees and persons to be their allies in their cause. Weaker church staff members and church members will succumb to their forceful personalities.

4. They tend to have intense and emotional personalities. These bullies use the intensity of their personalities to get their way.

5. They are famous for saying “people are saying.” They love to gather tidbits of information and shape it to their own agendas.

6. They find their greatest opportunities in low-expectation churches. They, therefore, won’t trouble themselves to confront and deal with church bullies. That leads to the next issue, which is a consequence of this point

7. They are allowed to bully because church members will not stand up to them. While the bully brings them great pain, they have even greater hurt because most of the church members stood silent and let it happen.

8. They create chaos and wreak havoc. A church bully always has his next mission. While he may take a brief break from one bullying mission to the next, they are not content unless they are exerting the full force of their manipulative behavior.

9. They often move or start another churches after they have done their damage. Whether they are forced out or simply get bored, they will move to other churches with the same bullying mission. Some bullies have wreaked havoc in three or more churches.

Anonymous said...

Appalling

Anonymous said...


“One special prayer that I would ask all of you to join me in praying is this: let us all together beseech God to grant us in this Work at least half of the financial increase that He gave Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong for about 35 years! For, as Mr. Armstrong explained many times, God gave the Work under his direction about 30 percent increase year by year for about 35 years.”--Roderick C. Meredith


The Worldwide Church of God grew under the leadership of Herbert W. Armstrong. All the teachings in the WCG had come through HWA. At the peak, about 150,000 men, women, and children attended the Feast of Tabernacles in the fall. About 400 World Tomorrow television programs and about 8,000,000 Plain Truth magazines covered the United States and Canada. The WCG's peak income was over $200 million a year.

HWA made it appear to be so easy to grow the church that many other people thought that they could do it too, and even better than HWA. But after HWA died in 1986, the Tkaches took over and just ran the WCG into the ground. In spite of all the Tkaches' talk about how they were such wise stewards, and doing things so much more wisely and spiritually than HWA, the WCG stopped growing, started to decline, and then blew up in 1995 when the Tkaches totally apostatized. After continually mocking HWA's claims that the WCG had grown by about 30% a year for 35 years, it looked like the Tkaches had succeeded in getting the WCG to decline by about 90% from its peak.

Roderick C. Meredith had gone on for years belittling the work that HWA and his WCG had done. RCM made it sound like nobody had ever heard of them, but that his own Living Church was going to “shake the nations.” Someone mentioned that in the past you could even go into a bar and hear people talking about the Armstrongs. The only time anyone ever heard of the LCG was when it was in the news because there was a shooting in one of its congregations.

Now, RCM is asking everyone in the LCG to beg God to give the LCG even half of the rate of growth that HWA and the WCG had enjoyed for decades. RCM would be very lucky to get even one-tenth of the growth that HWA and the WCG got in the past. In fact, most of the people in the LCG came from the WCG, even though RCM has always tried to minimize this and pretend and emphasize that supposedly brand new people who had never heard of HWA were joining the LCG.

The apostate Tkaches taught that HWA was wrong, and changed virtually everything that he had taught (but quickly repented just enough to bring back tithing). Now, all sorts of splinters and slivers that resulted from the explosion of the WCG also teach that HWA was wrong about all sorts of things, and want to change all sorts of things that he had taught (and would especially like to increase the financial burden on their followers to include handing over everything they have).

Retired Prof said...

When I think about how dead WCG was as soon as the 1972-75 prophecy failed, the "Black Knight" scene from _Monty Python and the Holy Grail_ comes to mind. You know the one. The Black Knight denies King Arthur permission to cross a certain bridge, and they fight. Arthur cuts off one of the Black Knight's arms and declares victory. The Black Knight refuses to admit defeat. Arthur cuts off his other arm and gets ready to cross the bridge. The Black Knight blocks his way and kicks at him until he loses both his legs as well. As the scene closes, his head and torso are still yelling challenges to Arthur.

LCG and all the other remnant splinters are now like him, bellowing in impotent rage their denial of what is clear to everyone else: they are as good as dead.

Anonymous said...

Meredith claims he doesn't like to ask for money but it seems that's all he ever does.

And let's not forget that he wrote himself checks out of Global's coffers and stole away in the middle of the night. Some of that stolen money was used to buy gold which still sits in the safe at his house.

Meredith is shady. Always has been, always will be.

Anyone who sends him money gets exactly what they've paid for... Nothing

Anonymous said...

"We need to encourage one another in this and help each one to “buckle up” for the rough ride ahead! Again, as I have reminded you over the years, always keep your mind on the “Big Picture” of God’s great Plan and how He always tries and tests each one of us before we are made full sons in His soon-coming Kingdom." - Roderick C. Meredith

What Roderick C. Meredith, his LCG and all the other COG's that still follow Herberbt W. Armstrong mean by "the Big Picture of God's great Plan" is that worthy humans will be "born again" to become God "just as God is God". This sinful and destructive heresy (Isaiah 43:10 and 2 Peter 2:1) commonly referred to as "the God Family" concept and "Man's Ultimate Destiny" is the proclaiming of another Jesus, a different spirit and a different gospel (Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 11:4).

This also matches what was said in the article - "personal problems and growing sin within the church" led to the Worldwide Church of God's downfall. For some reason he cannot see that the very same thing is happening to his group. Personal problems and sin in the LCG HQ and ministry is what is hampering his "work."

Herbert W. Armstrong proved himself to be a false prophet, a false teacher and also wrong about all sorts of things through his own spoken and written words and his actions.

I really hope and pray that RCM and all of the LCG renounce Herbert W. Armstrong and Armstrongism (i.e. what they call "the truth"), repent of their sins and turn to Jesus Christ (John 14:6).

Priam said...

Well, I am someone who hopes LCG goes off television. By that I mean, TV as it used to be. How many of you still have an aerial on your roof through which you get your news and entertainment? Most of us now have cable but we pay for scores of channels we do not ever watch. To my non-technical mind the future is in Internet-delivered content of choice.

I have just viewed on my smart phone Gerald Weston's program "Bet Your Life". The physical production standards were excellent and, so was the content, I consider. And how much did it cost the church to deliver it to me? almost nothing. Production costs were the same as making any Tomorrow's World program but delivery costs were insignificant. So bring on the day when LCG is largely off broadcast television.

The Internet allows quick production of very topical, short programs that can deal with subjects and news that are current and fresh in people's minds. Oh wait, LCG is already doing that with its successful webcasts.

To change topic - remember when someone here claimed to have inside knowledge of secret deals which had been done to allow Jim Meredith to take over all LCG's resources upon the death/resignation of Mr Rod Meredith? That gossip is not working out so well, is it?

Anonymous said...

"personal problems and growing sin within the church"

I couldn't have said it better myself. This is the exact root cause of why LCG is going to be falling apart in the not so distant future. It's really frightening that Meredith doesn't seem to understand that it is him and his henchmen who have set this ball in motion.

Anonymous said...

Priam said, "remember when someone here claimed to have inside knowledge of secret deals which had been done to allow Jim Meredith to take over all LCG's resources upon the death/resignation of Mr Rod Meredith? That gossip is not working out so well, is it?"

First of all it wasn't gossip. It's first hand knowledge. Second, the plan is still in full effect. Yes it is true that Jerry Weston is going to be the new face of LCG and the "Acting President" which was always a potential option. Dick Ames was also an option.

The powers that be were at least wise enough to realize that Lil Jimmy wouldn't be capable of doing the job. He also wouldn't be accepted by a majority of the brethren and/or the counsel of elders because he doesn't have the experience or the personality to lead the church (even a church as small as LCG).

Lil Jimmy has been systematically taking over one department at a time at LCG headquarters. He will be the heir of the private, Meredith owned corporation LCG. He will ultimately inherit all things financial. Meredith isn't going to let that cash out of his family!

Weston will be the face you see and he will write articles, etc but the money trail will still end with a Meredith. It's their empire after all.

Anonymous said...

Could you publish pictures of the homes that these "humble servants" live in? I remember seeing pictures of Lil' Jimmy's home. Lil' Jimmy could do a lot to plug the hole in LCG's budget and I suspect his old man could too.

Anonymous said...

on the lcg fb page i tried to point out what i thought were the kinds of flaws that were stunting the growth of lcg and i was ultimately banned from any further posts, after, of course, they in typical fashion denied the validity of my claims...

i reiterate: it is impossible to attract disciples when you dont have a message of inclusiveness, a reputation for helping the poor, and when you are perceived as corrupt money wasters running a racket for the benefit of family and friends...

what about this do you not understand???

indeed the children of israel are a stiffnecked people, self righteous and unrepentent; and then you complain about the natural consequence of your actions???

indeed it will be an individual, Elijah the prophet, who will restore all things because a church organization, by its very nature is just a corrupt political entity filled with carnal minded tares living off the tithes of the Faithful...

Anonymous said...

A question at the end of the original post asked: "...If God were going to bless LCG, would RCM really have to shamelessly beg, plead and psychologically manipulate members to give more?"

And the answer would be: "No!"

If God were in charge of Living, He would control the finances. If He wanted a huge work done, He would provide more mammon. If He wanted a small work done, He would provide a smaller amount to take care of it.

God is not a waster, but He did create a waster (Isaiah 54:16).

Rod Meredith does not consider "his god" to be in charge, in control, of their group in any way. In fact, Rod speaks like he believes God is asleep and has to be told how much mammon He better provide to Rod and those with him.

Rod, if the Living group is head-over-heels in debt, is showing himself to be an unprofitable servant by not working within the budget his "god" gave to him.

If that weren't enough, that choice of God and mammon? Rod chooses mammon!

Rod's letter accompanied with his begging for mammon is proving that God is not working with Living, but must be working elsewhere.

Other items Rod brings up?

Rod still writes about "...keep your mind on the “Big Picture” of God’s great Plan..."

What big picture? Has Rod himself ever had the big picture? Does he even know what "God's great Plan" is, because the plan Rod preaches has a lot of losers in it? And there isn't very much "good news" in his plan."

Rod still writes about being "...made full sons in His soon-coming Kingdom."

How soon? We've heard this for decades! And what is a "full son?" One is either a son or he is not a son!

And Rod wants "...Work at least half of the financial increase that He gave Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong for about 35 years!.."

Ridiculous! How many more years does Rod need? Global imploded! Living is stagnating! Why would God provide more mammon?

Rod writes: "...how this world so desperately needs the full Truth..."

Again, what is the "full Truth?" One either has truth or they don't have truth, and if they don't have truth, then they have lies and untruth.....not "full lies and full untruth!"

Rod asks: "...I hope all of us can begin to fast and to pray fervently and ask God to help us stir..."

I hate to disappoint Rod, but will never answer a fast like that, because God through Isaiah tell Rod et all the following advice:

"Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day, to make your voice to be heard on high." Isaiah 58:4

Huh? Rod, stop asking people to "make your voice to be heard on high," b/c He said don't do that!!!!!!!!!

And then there is the usual blame/judge the brethren...as follows: "...brethren—...—are nevertheless sitting on hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars worth of money, property and other resources they very rarely touch to help do the Work of the living God at the very end of this age."

Perhaps the members are wondering: "What has Rod and his living group done with all of the "...hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars worth of money, property and other resources..." that he has already received over the years??????

One last example!

Rod writes: "...Remember, brethren, we are only “beginning to fight.”

What? Only beginning! It's 2016! Rod began "his work" in 1992, he said. That was 24 years ago? What was Rod doing in 1992? Something wasn't really begun back in 1992? We've heard phrases like this for some time. Surely, there has to be some lies embedded within Rod's many words...

John


Anonymous said...

10.48 AM Armstrong didn't consistently grow the church. There was a huge influx of new members in about 1977, then it tapered off. That sudden increase occurred when the church changed from the commie 'we do everything together' approach. Members were allowed a degree of Independence.The church grew in spite of Armstrong, not because of him. God would have probably called many pore people if the church was truly teaching Gods way of trade rather than 'give,' and genuinely magnifying Gods ways laws which they have never done. All they taught, and teach is Copeland religious mush, which has no everyday practical value. Most church members are still teenage like when it comes to applying Gods laws.
You are confusing correlation and causation.

Byker Bob said...

What ever happened to (snicker) 19 year time cycles? 24 years, and ACOGs are shrinking like George Costanza in a cold swimming pool! You'd think the second wind would have kicked in on the first year of the scond time cycle. I mean, we're not even seeing a "miracle" like acceptance of LCG ads by Reader Digest!

Forget about money! These guys wouldn't even know how to translate it into a successful campaign that would produce solid results that didn't require "correcting" with lies. In a way, I wonder if that's not why they spend so much on themselves.

BB

Byker Bob said...

I wonder if Priam has considered the circumstances behind Jerry Weston being sent to England, and then suddenly being called back to Charlotte. The first move sounds as if it was probably carefully planned, and one would have to believe that all involved expected Jerry to be in England for a period of years. Being abruptly called back to Charlotte has the aura of a response to a crisis or emergency.

We've never had a situation in which so many members from one of the ACOGs suddenly voiced their opinions on a "dissident" blog, telling their stories, and exchanging information amongst us as if with friends. Generally in the past, there were animosities, which I choose to forget, because I like it this way much better.

Because of the comments about the top brass being angered by all of the attention on this blog, we know that it is not just a few anonymous posters who read here. If Sr. management of LCG reads here, they are now aware that LCG members are very dissatisfied with the ways in which some members are mistreated, while others receive preferential treatment, and what tops that list is the perception that nepotism, and not qualifications, would be the standpoint from which the new leader of LCG would be chosen. The bringing back of Mr. Weston is probably a direct reaction to many of the critiques voiced over the past months right here. And, it is the members' opinions that have probably made the difference, not the rest of our opinions. Because of those opinions, Jim Meredith may actually end up getting a burn notice in the near future.

I don't believe that what we heard initially was baseless rumor. It was probably all true. LCG changed its course.

BB

Anonymous said...

9.18PM, There are in fact time cycles or timing in human events. Back testing proves this. There are expensive computer programs that pick turning points in stock market trading. The sellers of these programs point out that you are in the realm of probability. All they can do is predict high probability outcomes. Putting it slightly differently, there is geometry in timing, but there are a multitude of geometrical patterns that the event can conform to. Only in hindsight, it becomes apparent which pattern is the 'right one.' And this 'right date' is the product of human choice, not some mathematical formula. So, all those claiming to know the date of Christs return are just taking an educated guess. There are books on timing.

Priam said...

Ah, Byker Bob, you strive for a tone of knowledgeable authority. But when we analyze your actual words such as ---

"-sounds as if it was probably

- one would have to believe

- has the aura of

- If Sr. management of LCG reads here

- is probably a direct reaction

- that have probably made the difference

- may actually end up

- It was probably all true

--- we can see that you write flimflam.




Anonymous said...

It is definitely fishy that they moved Weston to England (which cost the work tens of thousands of dollars) only to move him to Charlotte a short time later.

I agree with Bob. It just doesn't make sense. It had to be reactionary instead of forward planned.

Anonymous said...

Wouldn't it be a gas if Priam was Wyatt Cieselka or some other HQs person who's job is to monitor this blog, private Facebook pages and office emails.

LCG Gestapo is still in full effect!

Has anyone else noticed that LCG has slowed their pace on disfellowshipping people? I certainly have. I know McNair still has his secret folders on members, filled with infractions and tithe records. I'm sure there are people that they are itching to bully but have decided to hold the horses because of all the backlash they have received from being so harsh in the not so distant past.

I often wonder how Mike Desimone is coping with coming into the knowledge that supposed 'godly men' keep account of wrongs year after year and deal with members corruptly. Poor guy. It was probably a bitter pill to swallow. I can imagine him just swallowing hard and convincing himself to focus on the big picture instead of the carnal behavior of his fellow headquarters peer. It must have been heartbreaking to learn that it's a brood of vipers instead of the most Christian place on earth at LCG HQ's.

Anonymous said...

Good observations Bob and the fact that Priam is trying to discredit you makes it seem like you've gotten a little too close to the truth.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

The idiot Rod Meredith said, "......greatly increase our impact over the Internet—which is certainly the “wave of the future”.

MY COMMENT - Uh, planet earth to the Rod of God, did you really say the "wave of the future?" How about "the wave of the present and not too distant past". Is the Rod of God having trouble keeping up with the times?

Richard

Byker Bob said...

Not so, Priam. I was attempting to use "soft terms" to take a kindly tone, for the benefit of you and your brethren who visit here, as opposed to coming off as harsh, hostile, and dogmatic, as do some of our anonymous, low mentality, mocking, "cat-callers". Nobody else had brought up the points which I made, and they were things that perhaps would be going through a good detective's mind, or should be occurring to LCG members.

Flim-flam? That is usually used to describe a con job. I intended my post to raise some issues, and to introduce some possible alternative perspectives. The words with which you took umbrage should be very familiar to anyone who has Armstrongism in their backgrounds, because they are very similar to the words which have been used in the prophecy articles in the PT and its later day cookie cutter replicas. I had to forego usage of "possibly in 3-5 years" because it didn't relate to any of the points made. Had what I wrote been intended as flim flam, I would also have provided my P.O Box number and requested your tithes and offerings to defray the costs of my computer and monthly internet expenses necessary to accomplish the "powerful work" I am doing in writing here and other places. (tongue firmly in cheek)

Hope you have a great preparation day and an awesome sabbath!

BB

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

The idiot Rod Meredith said, "If you read some of the old co-worker letters today, as many of you brethren have kept some of them, they were almost “hair-raising” in the power they had!"

MY COMMENT - It baffles me that the dumb tithe slave sheep have kept Mr. Armstrong's old co-worker letters and STILL don't see the truth that Mr. Armstrong's own words condemn himself as a false Profit (ooops, I mean Prophet). I remember viewing Mr. Armstrong on a World Tomorrow telecast in the early 1980s long after I had left the Armstrong cult where he said and I quote, "If you do not see these things happening in the next 10 years, then you will know the truth was not with me!"

Again, to paraphrase a quote P.T. Barnum, "You can fool some people some of the time, but you can fool the weak and base things - the dumb tithe slave sheep - ALL THE TIME!

Richard

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 5:16

Your pronouncements have the substance of a crock of bull-dust.

Anonymous said...

Priam, are you a tenth grade teacher? You certainly bring back unpleasant memories of those days. So, teacher have come here to us that we are naughty.

Anonymous said...

7:55 are you saying that LCG isn't a privately owned company with the name Roderick C. Meredith on the title? Why don't you research the parent company of Living Church of God International before you go any further.

Are you suggesting that Meredith is going to give a multi-million dollar company over to Gerald Weston? That's laughable!

DennisCDiehl said...

I suggest we get over the idea, jumped upon by Dave Pack to provide even MORE ways to get the goods, that the early Church "had all things in common." If they did, it was for a very short time based on the idea that Jesus was coming back soon . It was a temporary holding pattern an most of the early converts did not have much individually anyways. The concept quickly fell by the wayside when it was obvious no Jesus was coming soon and more educated and wealthy folk came to the Church. They would NEVER be so foolish or willing to give up their goods to others after it was obvious life was going on.

For Dave Pack to seize on this scripture is merely a reflection of his financially fixated ego and needs and not any long lived church practice.

Byker Bob said...

This "common" thing has a history and entire culture behind it that just does not apply during our current era. Pack is foisting a horrible misapplication on his victim/members.

The early adherents to "the way" lived communally for several reasons. One was that they were being kicked out of temple. In a theocracy (the Roman emperors for the most part allowed subjugated peoples to govern themselves according to their own system of law) being excluded from the temple was equivalent to becoming a non-person. Family, jobs, housing, and all other components of a Jew's support network were tied up into being in good standing at the temple. Pooling resources was not done for the enrichment of the Apostles, or to "do a powerful work", it was done out of necessity for basic survival! Many Christians hid out in the Catacombs, to decrease the severity of persecution. There were also evil Roman Emperors, such as Nero, and Domitian, who tortured both Jews and Jewish Christians alike, whom they considered to be atheists, simply because they did not believe in the gods of the Roman pantheon.

There was, in fact, such abject poverty amongst the Jewish Christian brethren in Jerusalem that Paul set up and collected a relief fund for them from his gentile churches. Peter had to hide in obscurity, leaving leadership to James, because Peter was so well known, and became a lightning rod for persecution.

The only poverty that David Pack's people suffer is induced by Dave, himself. It is doubtful that they even suffer pranks, like occasional egg-shellings, as did their Pasadena brethren before them. And, if Dave ever has to step aside, it will be because he has totally lost credibility due to the continued failure of his false prophecies.

People are getting desperate for the validation that persecution and the tribulation would bring into their lives. Armstrongites do not want to pass away without witnessing all of the worst case scenarios preached by their fossil apostle coming into play. That might suggest that their lives and sacrifices had been totally in vain.

BB

Senior citizen said...

With this letter, Meredith is on the same side now as Pack.
Of course HWA did this when, at the same time that he was jetting about with his famous Hermes toys and buying gold and silver, he was harassing church members to take out loans to help with 'the work'.
The work, of course, was providing free easy income for Herbert and associates.
And, while they plundered third tithe to furnish their McMansions, we poor slobs in the congregations used duct tape to hold the bumpers on our cars.

These men have no faith. They do not think Christ is capable.
It is a letter filled with panic.
Sad. Many will do just as he says and leave themselves in a very bad position.
Which of the apostles built universities and grand auditoriums?
Can you imagine one of the apostles sponsoring Celtic dance?
Can you imagine them building silly ponds and streams and phallic symbol plantings along walkways as we saw at Ambassador college?
Nope. You can't.

These churches make merchandise of the brethren.
Believers are a cash cow for these greed mongers.

Anonymous said...

Having 'all things in common' was a case of “irrational exuberance.”
Reading the account, this was not taught or commanded by the apostles. In fact, Peter endorsed private property when he stated:
Act 5:4 'Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power?...'
These newly baptized people were treating as the ideal, ideas absorbed from their culture, which was equality for all. This false god of communism was smashed in the twentieth century when God gave half of Europe, including half of the hard working Germans, to the communists at the second world war.
This commie attitude is expressed in Luke 19:25

Luke 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
Luke 19:25 (And they said unto him, Lord, he hath ten pounds.)

This 'he hath ten pounds' runs contrary to the parable of the talents where Christ taught His servants to maximize profits and minimize losses. So Capitalist Entrepreneur Christ relied:

Luke 19:24 And he said unto them that stood by, Take from him the pound, and give it to him that hath ten pounds.
Luke 19:26 For I say unto you, That unto every one which hath shall be given; and from him that hath not, even that he hath shall be taken away from him.

This is at odds with Armstrongs 'give way' where the non boot lickers do the giving, and the ministers and boot lickers do the getting.
The ministers and boot lickers weep and gnash their teeth every time they read one of these trading articles.

Anonymous said...

Ministers tell their members not to visit dissident sites, least they get wrong ideas. Meanwhile, they have smut files on church members going back decades. They are written or passed down by word of mouth by ministers and elders. The smut file is used to shame and blackmail members into submission, or worse still, it gives ministers the exploitable weakness in peoples mental makeup. The ministers discuss general ploys and specific ploys for certain people. I know this for a fact since different ministers have used the same wording against me. And the purpose of these ploys isn't simply to get church members to tow the church line, but rather to rob members of all their God given rights. This is demonic, and far, far worse than any dissident site. Another case of one standard for me and another for thee.

Anonymous said...

Well stated 8:47 and spot on

Anonymous said...

Meredith and Ames own their homes outright. Why don't they mortgage them? Wakefield lives in an extremely luxurious gated community. Surely he and his wife would be comfortable in a normal house.

Both Ames and Meredith have 6 figure salaries with company cars and no house payments. Their trips and meals are expensed. They don't tithe because they think they're the Levitical priesthood. I can only imagine how much cash they have hoarded up over the years.

This letter is just more of the same fear mongering, money grabbing, carnal behavior we have come to expect from LCG leadership. They have no shame.

Lake of Fire Church of God said...

Anonymous John 7:39 PM wrote, "Rod writes: "...Remember, brethren, we are only “beginning to fight.”

What? Only beginning! It's 2016! Rod began "his work" in 1992, he said. That was 24 years ago? What was Rod doing in 1992? Something wasn't really begun back in 1992? We've heard phrases like this for some time.

MY COMMENT - I picked up on that statement too, John! I was alluding to it in my previous post regarding RCM's comment that some LCG members still had Mr. Armstrong's old co-worker letters. They urgency of completing "the work" communicated in Mr. Armstrong's letters and the timeframes he wrote about should raise questions in their member's minds - but it doesn't because they appear to be brain dead to the truth! That truth is Herbert Armstrong Church of God and his harlot splinter Churches have perpetuated a lie for over 80 years now that "time is short and Christ is coming soon" (always 3 to 5 years away in Armstrong Churches).

Meanwhile, while time is short, the Armstrong Churches built College campuses; Mr. Armstrong became a globe trotter allegedly preaching the gospel to all the world and to dictators that are no longer alive to "benefit" from the "witness" received; and the offspring Churches built Armstrong franchise businesses to give a comfortable income stream to the top Apostles and their families and cronies while the dumb tithe slave sheep live in near poverty conditions.

The "work" (I laugh while I write the word "work" - these idiots and Rod Meredith in particular wouldn't know an honest day's work if it hit them in the face) is ALWAYS in "the final push", "the final gunlap" or just "beginning to fight".

Richard

R.L. said...

I have mixed feelings after reading this letter, and the comments about it.

The people "sitting on hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars worth of money" probably is a reference to members with 401(k)'s and retirement plans. As someone above pointed out, they won't have anything to leave as an inheritance if they hand it all over to LCG.

But I also recall what an Ambassador College student told me, about the day she was in a class taught by Dr. Meredith years ago. At one point, she said, he broke down in tears in mid-lecture - reflecting on the death of his first wife.

Allen Dexter said...

None of them has gotten a dime from me in over forty years. I earned it. I used it for me and mine. According to them, I should have been cursed, but I've lived better than ever, had fairly good health, outlived a lot of my contemporaries and have a home in one of the best spots in North America in my estimation. Keep on sacrificing if it makes you feel superior and righteous. In my opinion, you're only being a fool.

Anonymous said...


Anonymous January 7, 2016 at 7:48 PM said...
“10.48 AM Armstrong didn't consistently grow the church....The church grew in spite of Armstrong, not because of him. God would have probably called many pore people if the church was truly teaching Gods way of trade rather than 'give,' and genuinely magnifying Gods ways laws which they have never done....You are confusing correlation and causation.”



If you think that “the church grew in spite of Armstrong, not because of him,” then do you also think that the church shrunk under the Tkaches in spite of them, not because of them?

Your own “God's way of trade” personal pet theory is not likely to grow much in spite of you trying to push it here all the time. You have too much spite for HWA, and too much love for your own personal pet theory. Like so many others with their own personal pet theories, you are just another cause of confusion.

Byker Bob said...

The so-called leaders don't acknowledge HWA's sins and bad character traits. In fact, they perpetuate them. And, although they cannot work together, they borrow and use one anothers' manipulative techniques and practices. If we were talking genetics here, in searching for an accurate descriptive model, we would have to say that we are witnessing the final stages of a very incestuous gene pool as its activities play out before us. Even when a cloistered group splinters, the new, smaller cloistered groups retain most of the original characteristics. Whatever little quantities of fresh blood comes in, rather than having a salubrious effect, it is immediately modified to conform to the old, stale blood.

Ego, mean-spiritedness, uneven social justice, conditional love, manipulation, exploitation, and systematic weirdness are but a few of the hallmarks of toxic groups. The basic doctrinal set is used to leverage people into ignoring the toxicity that it enforces, as well as self-serving perpetually failing prophecy. Members are led to believe that if they perceive the negatives, the negatives are not the problem; their attitudes are. So, the negatives never become converted into positives. The people who notice them are simply marginalized and excluded, some still commited to the doctrines, hurt, but confused as to what might be wrong with the picture.

If Armstrongism were a tower, what has happened to that tower is very similar to what God did to those who were building the Tower of Babel. This is a movement that is so confused that it doesn't realize what has hit it.

BB

Anonymous said...

good comment, anon 3:37am...

Floyd 1944 said...

I am disappointed in those that are posting here. Disappointed that you can't see the wisdom of what Dr Meredith has in mind. He knows he has a short time to get the church for the soon coming Kingdom. He sees thousands of dollars sitting idle and he needs that money to get the church ready. So here is his plan. He knows you have to lead by example. He is going to ask all the top ministers to put their homes up for sale he also will put his home on the market Can you imagine the impact this will have on the brethren once the top ministers donate the proceeds from their homes and donate their savings then the brethren will want to follow their example. Now those ministers will rent apartments. With this new money Dr Meredith can begin to follow Jesus's words. Feed the hungry look after the homeless visit the sick. Ministers will roll up their sleeves and work the soup lines at the homeless shelter owned by lcg. Now ministers won't need cars they can ride bicycles Dr Meredith can't ride a bicycle at his age so he will have a motorized wheel chair. Now we have a video of everyone taking care of the poor, needy, sick and orphans. Plus we have the ministers coming to work with Dr Meredith leading them in his wheel chair. All this on the internet proclaiming the big picture. Others cog members will see this and join lcg. Dr Metedith will get at least 15 per cent growth. Dr Meredith does see the big picture

Anonymous said...

So if Ames and Meredith own their huge homes, then they are part of the group that's sitting on hundreds of thousands of dollars that could be given to their Work. I wonder if God is not already blessing them according to their works. If so then their begging will fall upon deaf ears with God as they are asking amiss and will receive not. It seems they really are blind and wretched and can't see how naked they are. Sad. Glad I'm not their judge.

Anonymous said...

Oh no, did Spanky bankrupt another church?
Does he have enough time left to start a new one?
Maybe so; his record of the past 60 years saying there's only 3 to 5 years left may convince him he's gotta have another 3 to 5 years left to continue making a fool of himself.

Priam said...

Anonymous 9:26AM

No, I am not a tenth grade teacher. But I used to be a 1 - 3 grade teacher and loved to teach young children to read and write. I used to advise them to re-read and check their efforts of writing.

You might like to re-check your last sentence. It doesn't actually make sense.

Michael said...

Floyd said:

"He knows you have to lead by example. He is going to ask all the top ministers to put their homes up for sale he also will put his home on the market Can you imagine the impact this will have on the brethren once the top ministers donate the proceeds from their homes and donate their savings then the brethren will want to follow their example."

Wouldn't that be something! Now if they were to actually do something like *that* it would be so monumental and extraordinary that even I, an established atheist, might even begin to harbor doubts of there being some sort of supernatural element to their faith.

Of course, not likely // AT // ALL.

My atheism is safe :-)

DennisCDiehl said...

I would also like to point out that the story of Annanias and Sapphira was not a story about giving all one's goods to the church or breaking their promise for whatever reasons. The meaning at the time was story meant to make fun of Peter to the end the followers of Paul and Luke, who was Paul's biographer of sorts would not even consider following Peter.

Here's the inside joke they would have understood. In this story we have the great Apostle Peter "killing" two who said they would do one thing, give all, and did another..held back. Joke was on Peter who also said he would do one thing...never leave Jesus, and did another....denied him and fled. We don't get the message as they did from the story. "Don't follow Peter."

Get over the idea these characters in the NT all loved each other, taught the same thing and cooperated together. None of that would be true.

The Apostle John's dislike for Peter was shown in his always comparing him and Judas in a writing style called intercalation. Six times John mentions Judas-Peter-Judas showing his followers that Judas betrayed, Peter denied...no difference...don't follow him. There are politics in the NT just as today.

DennisCDiehl said...

PS And Jewish James book of James about "show me your faith without works and I will show you my faith by my works was written as a direct challenge to Gentile Paul's ideas about faith and works in Romans. Paul was a Jew and a "Pharisee of the Pharisees" in the same way Federal Express is Federal. We need to stop trying to harmonize two works written as rebuttals to each other's views about keeping or not keeping the law, which ones and how one achieves "salvation."

Anonymous said...

Nothing like making stuff up as you go along or reading into scripture, right Dennis?

Anonymous said...

January 9, 2016 at 10:21 AM

Trade a 'personal pet theory'? Here are a few examples of this 'theory':
Matthew 5:7 'Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy'. A trade.
Matthew 5:19 '..but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.' A trade.
Matthew 6:4 'That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly'. A trade
Matthew 6:14 'For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
Matthew 6:15 'But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.' A trade
Matthew 7:2 'For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again'. A trade
Matthew 10:8 '...freely ye have received, freely give' A trade
Luke 7:47 'Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little'. Another trade
Corinthians 7:23 'Ye are bought with a price;....' a trade
1Peter 2:24 'Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree,..: by whose stripes ye were healed.' Another trade.

On and on and on it goes. This is not theory, this is fact.
Whilst I'm here, a reminder to minimize ones losses from the Master Capitalist Entrepreneur:
Matthew 5:29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell.
Matthew 5:30 'And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off,...'

And not forgetting maximizing ones profit:
Matthew 6:20 But lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth corrupt, and where thieves do not break through nor steal:

The alternative to trade is master slave relationships, with the big people, the masters having a right to life, but the little people, the slaves having no right to life. This is in violation of the trunk of the moral tree of everyone having a right to life. Note how Armstrong hid this trunk by claiming in effect, that the 'give way' is the trunk. I noticed a few weeks ago that the UCG claimed in their monthly publication that their church doctrines are the trunk of the tree. No, they are not, they are the branches of the tree. Like Armstrong, they are using a substitute to hide the truth.
So, how was Armstrong be teaching Gods way, if he rejected the trunk of the moral tree?








Anonymous said...

"Ego, mean-spiritedness, uneven social justice, conditional love, manipulation, exploitation, and systematic weirdness are but a few of the hallmarks of toxic groups. The basic doctrinal set is used to leverage people into ignoring the toxicity that it enforces, as well as self-serving perpetually failing prophecy. Members are led to believe that if they perceive the negatives, the negatives are not the problem; their attitudes are. So, the negatives never become converted into positives. The people who notice them are simply marginalized and excluded, some still commited to the doctrines, hurt, but confused as to what might be wrong with the picture."


Bob hits it out of the park!!!

Anonymous said...

January 9, 2016 at 8:30 PM
"You might like to re-check your last sentence. It doesn't actually make sense.'
My windows 8 tablet auto speller sometimes accidentally changes the wording. This happens a lot with the cramped lay out. That's why God has given us humans the ability to auto correct in our minds, mistakes such as people mis pronouncing words. Try using this feature rather than nit picking. The whole world is not a class room, and you are its teacher. This a is a common problem with teachers. You must learn to live in the adult world grasshopper.

Byker Bob said...

3:17~ Do you mean reading, or second guessing "intent" into the set of words which are available? If so, you could be on to something. In our modern times, a court of law would strike and disallow third party testimony as to intent unless intent is clearly stated. Only the individual who committed an act or made the statement in question can testify as to his or her intent. Opinions of others are not reliable, are highly subjective, and because they are otherwise unknowable, cannot be factored into a decision or judgment. And, of course, events described in the New Testament of the Bible are reputed to have happened over 2,000 years ago. We who are alive today did not live in or experience that culture, so cannot really even make intelligent or informed guesses re intent that could be relied upon.

Without having stated it as such, Dennis is actually just offering his opinion, based on some of the books which he has read. This stuff becomes part of the partisan politics involved in dealing with the Armstrong problem, and individuals reading various materials here do evaluate all statements made by posters to determine not only whether they rise to the level of fact or simple opinion, but also whether the opinions of a former minister carry more or less weight than any other poster's opinions. You might say that everyone is constantly on trial here, not just King, Malm, Thiel, Pack, Flurry, Meredith, and all of the other ACOG leaders who are constantly being evaluated and challenged.

BB

DennisCDiehl said...

Anonymous said...
Nothing like making stuff up as you go along or reading into scripture, right Dennis?

Having read and studied the story behind the story of the Bible as presented by Biblical historians and actual theologians (not the mere Bible reading variety so common in fundamentalism and one man ministries) I have simply chosen to move on beyond the Sunday School version of the historical events, Biblical origins and human behavioral realities.

When those who were the most sincere in their youthful enthusiasm and acceptance of the Bible accounts as presented begin to see the cracks in the real story and pursue their origins and causes, they usually end up on the outside looking in and wondering why they had been so naive.

Anonymous said...

If we can't refute the content then attack the grammar

Priam said...

anonymous January 10, 2016 at 7:07 AM,

Have you ever heard the saying "A poor workman blames his tools"? Time was when people blamed their blunt chisel etc.. Now we can, like you, blame our windows 8 tablet auto speller. That doesn't wash, sir. This blog has an excellent previewer we can use before we post our comments. You should have used it.

I note you revert to name-calling with your 'grasshopper' conclusion. That's something I am familiar with. My Grade 1-3 students would often name-call. Is that your contribution from the "adult world"?

Mind you, I will concede that your windows 8 tablet auto speller may have a problem. It should have assisted you to get 'mis pronouncing' correct.

Anonymous said...

Teacher Priam,
Grasshopper is the term used frequently for pupil in the old Kungfu TV series. It is not name calling. My windows 8 speller does not have a problem, but being 8 inches, finger pressing errors occur. Yes, my inbuilt speller picked up 'mis pronouncing' as incorrect, but l believed it would be easier to read. I hope you also teach your students, that language is under democratic control, so the 'correct' meaning and spelling can change with the passage of time. You remind me of the nun in the Blues brothers movie.

Anonymous said...

Does Rod Meredith agree with his son Jim, who goes around the country poormouthing the other LCG employees? If Jim is to be believed, most LCG employees are lazy and incompetent, and would not get anything done without his constant oversight. Maybe LCG needs more money to hire competent people?

Anonymous said...

Teacher Priam, Reading all your comments, l noticed you accused Byker Bob of writing flimflam. More precisely, his wording acknowledges probability. In the real world, humans often don't have all the information, and make the choice of highest probability. This is unlike in your schoolworld, where everything is black and white. In fact, black and white thinking is a mental flaw. Try Googling the topic.

Anonymous said...

Priam said:

remember when someone here claimed to have inside knowledge of secret deals which had been done to allow Jim Meredith to take over all LCG's resources upon the death/resignation of Mr Rod Meredith? That gossip is not working out so well, is it"

I wonder if Priam can get his hands on the bylaws of that organisation when the day comes.

Even WCG only had 3 members by law. Read the bylaws.
So any talk on how HWA built a church with 150.000 members is sheer crap.

nck

Anonymous said...

Priam, Your 'that doesn't wash sir' couldn't be more reasonable, if, if you were a teacher and l was one of your students. As l said, the world is not your personal classroom. People here treat you as a adult, but you respond by talking down to them like children, That is cold blooded murder. You are playing a variation of the 'games people play' game called 'blemish', with a school teacher twist. If l want to feel important, l try to build the mind of God, rather than playing silly destructive games with people. I will ignore any future remarks from you. Your use of straw man arguments is also immoral.

Byker Bob said...

Good point and thank you, 10:40!

In Armstrongism, speculation was taught as gospel. "Ah, brethren, this verse is referring specifically to Mr. Armstrong, and all of us in God's Church in the end times. You'll see this in the future when more chapters are written for the book of Acts!"

Or, "We're going to Petra!"

Or, "God's way is the way of segregation! In the millennium, all of the races will return to their homelands! Are you Negro brethren ready to be kings and priests in Africa?"

"Why, in just 3-5 years........" (Times what? 10 to the 5th power?)

Random circumstances, luck, fortune, and probability were spoken of as mealy-mouth in Armstrongism. The preferred M.O. was to dogmatically lie or to make authoritative pronouncements about the unknowable. Financial extortion always worked out better in the presence of Orwellism.

BB

Anonymous said...

It's odd that an ACOGite has selected a screen name in honor of a king in Greek mythology. I'm totally cool with it but ACOGers have always been so neurotic about all things mythological and/or Pagan in origin. To even teach your children of Greek mythology was akin to walking the line of "worshipping foreign gods". Just an observation.

Anonymous said...

If for some reason Meredith fell into millions of dollars he would still end up broke and with nothing but real estate and fancy 'things' to show for it. He would misappropriate the majority of it. Greed and envy would grow, not the work.

He would feel emboldened and become even more abusive to the membership. The 'yes men' would lick his boots even more.

It takes a man of outstanding character to properly deal with money and power. Rod Meredith is not a man of outstanding character by any means.

God is clearly not blessing the LCG. In fact, it looks as if quite the opposite is happening.

Byker Bob said...

Words, spelling, and grammar can be important. As an example, the statement, "I've got plenty of gas!" can mean that the tank in your Corvette is about 3/4 full, or it could indicate that you washed down a king-sized machaca burrito with a 25 ounce can of Bud at potluck lunch on the Feast of Trumpets. Language is highly nuanced. In one case, you are good to go, and in the other, people might want to take cover during evening services.

BB

Anonymous said...

Hey Priam – a couple of weeks ago under another topic, when addressing your doctrine on salvation, you mentioned: “We actually believe in salvation by grace through the mercy of God upon repentance and the acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Savior after which we receive forgiveness.”

I later responded to that comment and was hoping you’d address that response. Perhaps you didn’t notice my post or maybe you did not care to respond to it. However, I thought I’d give it another try. I did make a misstate in my first line – I actually polled 17 COGers, 11 of whom are in the LCG. No worries if you do not care to respond to this post; despite some participation in my poll, I generally do not get much cooperation from COGers when I ask for information about their doctrines.

Below is my post from the conversation titled "Living Church of God: Gerald Weston the New Dictator in Chief":

Anonymous said...

Priam – I just did a poll of COGers (11 in LCG) – they all said that salvation depends on your works. However, I did look up LCG’s statement of belief on salvation and was surprised that it sounds better than I would have ever given them credit for but, within it are the clues as to how/why this statement does not exactly jibe with the teaching of the leaders and the beliefs of the members.

This is LCG’s statement of belief on Salvation: Salvation is God’s gift by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Titus 3:5; 2 Corinthians 2:15; Romans 5:10). Upon repentance and baptism, God justifies us from our past sins. We then begin an ongoing process of "being saved" as we grow in the grace and knowledge of Christ (2 Peter 3:18). Our salvation will be complete at the resurrection (1 Corinthians 15:50-54). In observing the biblical Festivals and Sabbaths, we come to understand more deeply God’s plan of salvation, and the steps toward salvation that we take as Christians.

Okay, they got the gift lingo correct from the start but, the statement ends with the steps (works) a member has to perform. In Armstrongism, if the gift idea is mentioned at all, it is always something someone has to work for – in that case, Armstrongism re-writes a crucial point in the plan of salvation by making it not a real gift with strings attached.

In the second sentence, the meaning of justification is mangled by the error that it only covers past sins. Justification is the New Covenant expression of Atonement – it gives righteous standing and the ability to be with God forever. There is no biblical limitation that relegates justification to past sins. Armstrongism will not cover this topic because they do not want their members to understand it.

Armstronism overlooks verses like Ephesians 2:5 and Ephesians 2:8 because they depict being saved in the past tense – as in it is a done deal. Also, these verses poignantly state that salvation is all grace and zero you. Any statement of belief on salvation from a credible Christian entity would include these verses and elaboration on the concept of grace. Instead, LCG only mentions grace in this second sentence in a despicable manner that makes it sound like the person has to do works so that they can grow in grace and knowledge. Memories of COG teachings about needing to pray and study for an hour a day or you won’t make it to COG salvation come to mind.

The third sentence is a display of Armstrongism designed to enslave people to tithing and writhing to the leadership because the people can never be sure if they will be saved in the end. That’s because in Armstrongism, salvation is not a gift but is works based with a final outcome determined by one’s works. Again, Ephesians 2:5-8 displays the past tense, it’s a done deal, aspect of salvation that Armstrongism rejects because it won’t keep the people in the shackles.

The last sentence does not literally say you must keep the holy days to be saved but, the Armstronism thinking and believing require it. That is what sermons are preached on and the members believe. So, COG salvation is only based on the works people perform, not on grace – which is based on giving us the rewards earned by the works Jesus performed. Again, the steps referred to in this last sentence are a clue that COG salvation will only be granted to those who work, work, work, and you can never be sure if you did enough, so you had better send in more money while you’re still breathing.

Priam, COG theology is not New Covenant compliant and for you to suggest that we do not understand what COGs believe is proof of your deception. I am still hoping you can provide links to COG sermons or booklets on topics such as: salvation by grace, Jesus as Savior, justification, sanctification, glorification. Given the weight Christians-so-called place on John 3:16, surely there must be an entire sermon preached on it, at some time in all of COGdom, that you can share.

Priam said...

Anonymous January 10, 2016 at 12:43 PM

I am not aware of using a straw man argument and would reprove myself if I did. You are correct; they are not worthy. Please let me know when I did use a straw man argument, so I can recheck that particular posting. I want to be more aware in future.

Thanks.

Priam said...

I will, for a time, change my tag here to "Cold blooded murderer". This is a nod to the commenter who accused me of such because he claimed I talked down to others. I hope it reminds everyone of the over-the-top abusive language that some here substitute for reason.

Cold blooded murderer * said...

January 10, 2016 at 3:39 PM

First a concession. You are correct that articles specifically addressing the topics you challenged me on are few. I don't want to spend hours searching through the church's websites but there are many printed and recorded publications which do reference all the topics you mention. Our booklet such as "Your Ultimate Destiny" deals specifically with future glorification.

Mr Meredith has publicly acknowledged that we have not historically focused enough on Jesus Christ and His role. He has attempted to correct this lapse by preaching and writing on the fact that the Gospel refers not just to the Kingdom of God but also to the salvation that comes through Jesus Christ. For his trouble Mr Meredith was attacked by other CoG leaders and LCG lost members who accused him of changing doctrine.

As a point of interest. I did quickly visit the website of Christianity Today and searched for those terms you mention. On not one of the first pages each search brought up was there an article which was recognizable as a detailed study of the terms. I think the situation is that these terms are used in doctrinal statements but are not often written about in detail in more general articles.

My original statement that LCG believes in salvation by grace through the mercy of God upon repentance and the acceptance of Jesus Christ as our Savior is, I think, reasonably solid. I accept that many former WCGers never did 'get' this. But I have found that most of the old-timers in LCG have correctly had this understanding throughout the decades. I know that some of the others were only attracted to HWA because of prophecy.

*My tag is because I was accused of so doing by someone here who claimed I talked down to another commenter. It's to exemplify the foul accusations some here make.

Anonymous said...

For the record, attacking peoples self image by treating them as children is murder, Emotional abuse, by playing games such as blemish is murder.

Anonymous said...

Cold blooded murderer is also blaming the victim and taking on the role of the victim. The old one, two. Why am l not surprised.

Anonymous said...

Most people in the church are cut from the same cloth. When I complained to members of their verbal abuse, the typical reaction was indignation, acting like the wronged party, and often exploding in my face. They felt that mistreating others was an entitlement There is no such right. There is no right to rob and emotionally plunder others. Or as other moralists have expressed it, there is such right as 'the right to enslave.' Hence, l feel right at home with teacher Priams reaction. Treating adults like 1-3 grade pupils is tearing people down by strongly attacking peoples self image. How can teacher not know this by simply observing her victims reactions? Teacher is being very, very naughty.

Anonymous said...

LOL, while I wouldn't say that being a condescending axehole = cold-blooded murder, I would observe that it colors everything you say with a tinge of unpalatability, making your foolish preaching of no effect, thankfully. If you can't even see it, such that you want to bask in the "glory" of well-targeted criticisms, so much the better. Keep up the good work.

"I hope it reminds everyone of the over-the-top abusive language that some here substitute for reason.

Over-the-top, yes, but abusive? When you say "abusive," you're being over-the-top.

And let us not forget that pretending to know things you don't know is what you substitute for reason.

Irony much? Hardly the paragon of virtue you'd like us to see you as.

Anonymous said...

When Meredith left Global and formed Living he was vehement that he would never be in a situation like that again. As a result, he had Living established under his ownership with specific documentation stating that he can never be removed or replaced and that he would always hold the keys to the treasury.

No matter what anyone wants to believe, that is reality.

LCG is Meredith's personally held family business. If he wanted to take the money and run, he could. If he dies and wants to leave the money as an inheritance for his kids, he can.

Just because he has promoted one of his employees (Gerald Weston) to President does not negate the fact that Meredith still owns the company and is king of the castle. Plenty of people own businesses but hire others to operate them.

This means that even though Weston will be acting President, Jim Meredith is in fact being handed the keys to the treasury. When you own the company, you can do whatever you want. It's a mini-monarchy.

It shocks me that LCGers don't want to understand this.

I have actually heard some of them say, "One man can't 'own' the Church of God". I always want to exclaim, "Exactly!" but I hold my tongue in hopes that they will eventually be able to draw that conclusion on their own.

Anonymous said...

7.53, l agree with some, but not all your conclusions. Jim cannot do what ever he wants since it is legally a charity. If members abandon the church for anther, they lose their tithe money. But l agree, he could still plunder the church like Tkach.

Anonymous said...

Cold blooded murderer * January 10, 2016 at 3:39 PM said...
“Our booklet such as "Your Ultimate Destiny" deals specifically with future glorification.”

The booklet "Your Ultimate Destiny" DOES NOT deal specifically with future glorification. It deals specifically with human deification ("You will be God as God is God" - i.e. the doctrine of apotheosis). According to Herbert W. Armstrong, Christians will become “God persons” in the resurrection. Armstrong also taught that God is reproducing Himself through humanity and adding more “God persons” to
His family (i.e. the Godhead - Armstrong taught that the Holy Spirit is not a Person, nor the third Person in the Godhead). Armstrong taught that when human beings are changed from flesh to spirit in the resurrection, they will be elevated to divine status and become part of the God Family. This doctrine of apotheosis or human deification is polytheistic and pagan becaues most pagans did worship some type of divine family of gods; so technically, Armstrongism is paganism.

Roderick C. Meredith says the same thing that Armstrong does in a different way within this heretical booklet he wrote(http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/booklets/your-ultimate-destiny/content):

• "How can you be filled with all of the "fullness of God" and not be God?"

• "We will be completely one with God (as Christ is one with the Father) and therefore obviously be God."

Roderick C. Meredith, his LCG and all the other COG's that still follow Herberbt W. Armstrong believe that "the Big Picture of God's great Plan" is that humans “who are truly converted” will be "born again" to become God "just as God is God". This sinful and destructive heresy (2 Peter 2:1) commonly referred to as "the God Family" concept, "Man's Ultimate Destiny", “The Incredible Human Potential”, is the proclaiming of another Jesus, a different spirit and a different gospel (Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 11:4) and completely goes against what God Himself said in Isaiah 43:10 (NKJV) which says the following:

“You are My witnesses,” says the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.

Humans will not be “born again” to “become God just as God is God”! Humans will never be God! This idea of human deification that Armstrongism teaches is heresy! Human deification is a lie and if you believe that you are going to be “born again” to “be God” then you, just like LCG and all the other COG's that still follow Herberbt W. Armstrong are of your father the devil (John 8:44, Isaiah 14:12-14; Genesis 3:4).

Repent of your sin and turn to Jesus Christ (John 14:6) before it is too late!

Leo

Anonymous said...

I wanted to correct the typo's I made earlier since there was someone on here that was nitpicking about spelling.

Cold blooded murderer said...
“Our booklet such as "Your Ultimate Destiny" deals specifically with future glorification.”

The booklet "Your Ultimate Destiny" DOES NOT deal specifically with future glorification. It deals specifically with human deification ("You will be God as God is God" - i.e. the doctrine of apotheosis).

According to Herbert W. Armstrong, Christians will become “God persons” in the resurrection. Armstrong taught that God is reproducing Himself through humanity and adding more “God persons” to His family (i.e. the Godhead - Armstrong taught that the Holy Spirit is not a Person, nor the third Person in the Godhead).

Armstrong taught that when human beings are changed from flesh to spirit in the resurrection, they will be elevated to divine status and become part of the God Family. This doctrine of apotheosis or human deification is polytheistic and pagan because most pagans did worship some type of divine family of gods; so technically, Armstrongism is paganism.

Roderick C. Meredith says the same thing that Armstrong does, but in a different way within this heretical booklet that he wrote (http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/booklets/your-ultimate-destiny/content):

• "How can you be filled with all of the "fullness of God" and not be God?"

• "We will be completely one with God (as Christ is one with the Father) and therefore obviously be God."

Roderick C. Meredith, his LCG and all the other COG's that still follow Herbert W. Armstrong believe that "the Big Picture of God's great Plan" is that humans “who are truly converted” will be "born again" to become God "just as God is God". This sinful and destructive heresy (2 Peter 2:1 - NKJV) commonly referred to as "the God Family" concept, "Man's Ultimate Destiny", “The Incredible Human Potential”, is the proclaiming of another Jesus, a different spirit and a different gospel (Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 11:4 - NKJV) and completely goes against what God Himself said in Isaiah 43:10 (NKJV) which says the following:

“You are My witnesses,” says the LORD,
“And My servant whom I have chosen,
That you may know and believe Me,
And understand that I am He.
Before Me there was no God formed,
Nor shall there be after Me.

Humans will not be “born again” to “become God just as God is God”! Humans will never be God! This idea of human deification that Armstrongism teaches is heresy! Human deification is a lie and if you believe that you are going to be “born again” to “be God” then you, just like LCG and all the other COG's that still follow Herbert W. Armstrong are of your father the Devil (John 8:44, Isaiah 14:12-14; Genesis 3:4-5 - NKJV).

Repent of your sin and turn to Jesus Christ (John 14:6) before it is too late!

Leo

Anonymous said...

Leo, l agree with you to the extent that many church members believe that they will be able to create new planets, new creatures and plants by simply willing it. Only God the Father and Christ have the knowledge and skills to perform these acts. But keep in mind that humans already have God plane minds, and a eternity in which to grow and develop. So it's hardly far fetched.

Anonymous said...

Oh, Priam...

Please stop being so overly dramatic!

We had enough of that with Herbie's jowel-jiggling and lectern-fist-pounding.

Anonymous said...

Anon 12:52 PM. The idea that humans who are "truly converted" will be "born again" (i.e. formed) to "be God" is completely far fetched because God says so in Isaiah 43:10 (NKJV).

Leo

Anonymous said...

Meredith for one CAN NOT WAIT to be a spirit being so that he can "blast" those who dare disagree with him or refuse to show him the respect he feels he deserves.

Cold blooded murderer * said...

Anonymous January 11, 2016 at 1:47 PM

You urge me to "Please stop being so overly dramatic!"

Someone here thinks I am 'talking down' and effectively calls me a cold blooded murderer. And, you say that it's me who's being overly dramatic? Pl--eez.

* My tag is because I was accused of so doing by someone here who claimed I talked down to another commenter. It's to exemplify the foul accusations some here make.

Anonymous said...

Heresy. LOL.

As opposed to what? Orthodoxy? And whose orthodoxy? Protestant? Roman? Eastern? Jesus was a Jewish heretic, therefore, Jesus was wrong, ftw...

The charge of heresy is predicated upon a fallacious appeal to some assumed authority. Unfortunately, there is none. Even if the bible could get it's stories straight, we have no idea what it originally said, and even if we did, there's no authoritative interpreter of it. And that's all assuming the special pleading necessary to think the Judeo-Christian god is the real deal, and not Zeus or Odin, worked, when of course of doesn't work.

Anonymous said...

Leo, You can't just cherry pick scripture. Christ did say:

John 10:34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
John 10:35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Isaiah 43:10 sounds like another God forming independent to the existing God.
Your "born again" (i.e. formed)" is not bible biblical. 'Formed' and 'born again' are not the same thing.

Anonymous from January 10, 2016 at 3:39 PM said...

Priam, aka CBM – thank you for addressing my post; you were very brave to do so. I appreciate you trying to provide some information. However, I found it to be similar to what other COGers offer – which is not much in the way of direction to definitive answers but, rich in a display of incongruent COG thought with a glaring inability to direct me to an authoritative COG source for official doctrine.
You were completely incorrect, the booklet Ultimate Destiny does not mention anything about salvation by grace, as you tried to assert. This booklet does speak about salvation available to overcomers and provides much misinformation about how we become overcomers. It does not mention one word of what Jesus has done to make us overcomers. The booklet is conspicuously devoid of grace, as is all COG speech and media.
The above is completely aligned with my statement that COGs teach salvation by works – and that matches the beliefs of the COGers I polled and is at odds with your assertion that the COGs teach salvation by grace as a free gift from a Savior. Grace is not explained in this booklet. Why?
Furthermore, you state RCM has taken some flak for talking more about Jesus. If you really cared about Jesus, wanted to know about Jesus, and follow Jesus, why would you be listening to anything from RCM? After sixty years in the ministry, as a self-proclaimed leader, and RCM is now admitting that he should be preaching more about Jesus! That’s ridiculous; why would anyone listen to a thing he’d say about Jesus? Obviously, RCM can’t be an expert on Jesus if, after sixty years, he is only now acknowledging Jesus. Why would you venerate anyone who has a sixty year record of neglecting Jesus? How could you look to someone such as RCM as a spiritual leader?
Priam, if you care about God, His Word, His message to man, and your church, you would want your church to visibly address the important issue of salvation by grace from a Savior. Is this not an important topic? Why can’t you easily show us what you claim your church teaches? Is your lack of sources proof that your church does not teach salvation by grace from a Savior?

Anonymous said...

Teacher Prima is like a former work boss. He would talk down to people, most being middle aged, as if he was addressing six year olds. Before he left, he was called away to work at the main office for a month. I over heard people mention that he was being treated like a child himself by his new temporary boss. When he returned to my work place, he started talking down to me like a child. But wait, he froze, with a look of revulsion on his face. He had a flashback of being treated like a child by his one month experience. He learned the hard way that treating people like children TEARS people down. Did he repent and change? Nope, no way. It feels so good, and you feel real important by treating adults like children. At least now he has no excuse for mistreating people. There is no 'l didn't realize how offensive that is.' Teacher Prism needs to take note.
Historically, people like her go to the daddy minister with mis information, demanding that daddy verbally bash the offending party. Or they go to the known church 'punishers' hoping that they will do the dirty work of bashing the naughty offender. This is common church 'justice,' or is it injustice?

Cold blooded murderer * said...

January 11, 2016 5:34pm

Firstly, just a point to get things right. I did not try to assert that the booklet "Your Ultimate Destiny" is about salvation by grace. I actually wrote its subject is glorification. That it is not about salvation by grace is likely the reason grace is not explained nor discussed in any detail.

I did not want to get into cutting and pasting scattered paragraphs of LCG writing but I will do a few. I say, take these at face value. And put onto them YOUR understanding of the meaning of the words without trying to argue about what you think LCG means. Our understanding of the meaning of words is the orthodox Webster meaning.

- Salvation is God’s gift by grace through faith in Jesus Christ (Titus 3:5; 2 Corinthians 2:15; Romans 5:10). (Statement of Beliefs)
- "For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it [that faith] is the gift of God, not of works, lest anyone should boast" (Ephesians 2:8-9)! We are "justified by His [Christ’s] blood" and are "reconciled to God through the death of His Son [but] we shall be saved by His life" (Romans 5:9-10).
- The Gospel of Christ is the "Good News" of the soon-coming Kingdom and government of God, and of the forgiveness of our sins through Christ’s sacrifice.
-At baptism, the Christian enters the "new covenant" with God (Matthew 26:28). That new covenant does not do away with the law of God. God writes His laws in our minds and hearts (Hebrews 8:8-10). When one is baptized, he or she makes a solemn covenant with God that, with the help of the Holy Spirit, he will keep His commandments and live a godly life from that day onward! It is Christ who actually lives His obedient life within us through the Holy Spirit. As the Apostle Paul was inspired to write, "I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me" (Galatians 2:20,KJV).
- Of course, no one can earn salvation. But a willful disobedience against God's instructions is a sure sign that you have not really repented nor become truly converted.
- If you feel cut off from God, you can be reconciled. You can have hope. You can be brought near by the blood of Christ.
- Yes, God wants us to express His love to all men, not just to fellow Christians (1 Thessalonians 3:12). The Apostle Paul said: “As we have, therefore, opportunity, let us do good unto all men” (Galatians 6:10, KJV). This outgoing concern is to be a way of life—expressed at all times, and to all individuals. Agape does not require reciprocation in word or deed; we are to love others whether or not they love us in return. We are to love others even if we know we will receive evil in return!

I am not going to spend further time on this. Study the referenced scriptures. I know what LCG teaches and will not argue further. We do not believe in salvation by works but by the freely given grace of God.

*My tag is because I was accused of so doing by someone here who claimed I talked down to another commenter. It's to exemplify the foul accusations some here make.

Cold blooded murderer * said...

I have been taken to task for being overly dramatic for temporarily changing my tag. I have also been told that abusive is not the correct term to apply to some of the epithets used here. I have been criticized for demeaning people.

Here is a sample, from just THIS ONE thread of comments. I think abusive is the correct term and who is really demeaning others?

- piece of crap! (referring to a person.)

- Roddy Boy

- corpse in his basement, so he can get his daily double dose of necrophilia on!

- Lil Jimmy

- Spanky

- LCG Gestapo

- idiot Rod Meredith

- dumb tithe slave sheep

- the New Dictator in Chief

- being a condescending axehole (Referring to me.)

May I express to the Moderator my appreciation of the reCAPTCHA tool? It is much better than some verification tools.

*My tag is because I was accused of so doing by someone here who claimed I talked down to another commenter. It's to exemplify the foul accusations some here make.


Cold blooded murderer * said...

January 12, 2016 at 12:11 AM

Oh, boy. Getting picked up for posting a meaningless sentence and a misspelling and a suggestion to put trust in spell-checker really got under your skin, didn't it?

Do not worry. This, too, will pass. In six months you will have forgotten these exchanges, as will I.

*My tag is because I was accused of so doing by someone here who claimed I talked down to another commenter. It's to exemplify the foul accusations some here make.

Anonymous said...

Piam is mistaken when she claims:
Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it[that faith]is the gift of God:

I have been taught blackboard English. The correct understanding is:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it[that is grace]is the gift of God:

This squares with Luke 17:5 'And the apostles said unto the Lord, Increase our faith.' Reading the account, Christs tells them to build faith by working hard.

She is also mistaken when she claims: 'Agape does not require reciprocation in word or deed; we are to love others whether or not they love us in return. We are to love others even if we know we will receive evil in return!' This is the misleading church line. 'To love others' isn't defined, so one can endlessly debate the issue. However, if one considers what the COG churches hide and never never affirm, the deception is clear. Davids assertions in the book of Psalms are religiously avoided. Consider for instance:

Psalm 5:6 Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.

Psalm 18:40 Thou hast also given me the necks of mine enemies; that I might destroy them that hate me.

Psalm 69:28 Let them be blotted out of the book of the living, and not be written with the righteous.

Psalm 69:25 Let their habitation be desolate; and let none dwell in their tents.

The churches reject Davids reactions under the guise of agape love. But this is only rule rigging. The goal is to create an environment partial to evil, a paradise for church tares. The ministers know who their real supporters are.

Anonymous said...

Piam, in typical church manner, complains of 'demeaning others' with labels such as:

- LCG Gestapo
- idiot Rod Meredith
- dumb tithe slave sheep
- the New Dictator in Chief
- piece of crap

What all these label accomplish is:
1 Acknowledge the existence of evil.
2 Affirm the existence of evil.
3 Pass moral judgment on evil.
The above explains the great success of TV programs such as Cops, Operation Repo and similar. The actors in Operation Repo get a million dollars an episode, whilst portraying themselves poor on the show.
Yes, people are paid big bucks to have the existence of evil affirmed.
Hence the church rule riggers weep and gnash their teeth when they read comments like this one. Members are not supposed to pass moral judgment on church tares and exploitative church leaders.
So keep up the good work guys. Call the idiots, idiots, dictators, dictators, and the piece of crap, crap. Why else would God throw these people into the lake of fire if they were not crap.

Byker Bob said...

Humans seem to escalate dialogue rather than attempting to recognize and break bad cycles. Unfortunately, this is an example of what can even happen in families when feelings run so strong because of a certain powerful modifier with which we are all familiar. It becomes very difficult to remain silent, even when civility would seem to dictate that that would be the most appropriate course. The problem is that each "side" knew what the other's point of view was at the starting point. Someone chose to come here to confront rather than to participate in discussion, and we see the natural result.

BB

Anonymous said...

Anon 5:29 PM - You are correct when you said, "'Formed' and 'born again' are not the same thing."

I'm glad you pointed that out because the way in which Herbert W. Armstrong and his disciples (yourself included) use the term 'born again' matches the way the LORD used the word 'formed' in Isaiah 43:10 (NKJV) in that Armstrongisms explanation of 'born again' is describing idolotry because Armstrong's 'God Family' concept does describe another god (in this case - billions of humans becoming 'God') being formed independent to the existing God who is One Being existing as three coequal and coeternal Persons.

Armstrong taught that God is a family composed of two supreme beings. Armstrongism is a fundamentally bi-theistic teaching and not binitarian as some have mistakenly claimed.

According to Armstrong Christians will become “God persons” in the resurrection. Armstrong also taught that God is reproducing Himself through humanity and adding more “God persons” to 'His family' (i.e the Godhead). Ironically, Armstrong never seemed to notice that the terms “God Family” or “God persons” are not found in the Holy Bible, despite how he, his disciples and others try to redefine the word "Elohim'.

In true Armstrongite fashion you went to John 10:34-35 to point out that Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;

Christ Jesus was referring to Psalm 82. The "gods" in this verse are Israelite judges, who by virtue of their position were judges representing God. The whole point of Psalm 82 is that earthly judges must act with impartiality and true justice, because even judges must stand someday before the Judge (Jesus Christ).

Now, let’s look at how Jesus usee the passage 'ye are gods'. Jesus had just claimed to be the Son of God (John 10:25-30). The unbelieving Jews respond by charging Jesus with blasphemy, since He claimed to be God (verse 33). Jesus then quotes Psalm 82:6, reminding the Jews that the Law refers to mere men—albeit men of authority and prestige—as “gods.” Jesus’ point is that they charged Him with blasphemy based on His use of the title “Son of God”; yet their own Scriptures apply the term "gods" to magistrates in general. If those who hold a divinely appointed office can be considered “gods,” how much more can the One whom God has chosen and sent (verses 34-36)? Jesus was also basically saying that they were judging unjustly, which is the same fruit that is displayed by the disciples of Herbert W. Armstrong in LCG and the other COG's that still follow HWA.

Lastly you mentioned cherry picking scripture. Herbert W. Armstrong and his disciples fruit have shown that they have taken Scripture out of context in order to support their beliefs, as well as how they isolate “proof texts” and “cherry pick” verses in order to persuade and convince the uninformed that their interpretation of the Holy Bible is correct, even to the extent of claiming that they alone have “the truth”, that "there is not one loose brick" in their theology and that everybody else is wrong, apostate and practicing a "counterfeit Christianity", and these claims are the practice of spiritual manipulation.

Anonymous said...

RCM isn't into grace because he himself is graceless.

If he can just focus on keeping the Sabbath and the holy days to earn his salvation, life is so much easier.

He holds grudges and uses his power to execute personal vendettas. His justice is administered from uneven scales. He believes in preferential treatment and lacks mercy or forgiveness. Grace is not in his repertoire.

Anonymous said...

5.30AM my complaint is having my self image attacked by being treated like a child. Contrary to what you imply, you cannot read my or anyone elses mind. Only God and myself know why l do what l do.

Anonymous said...

I see that Lord Priam has the persecution martyr complex down cold. He can be as insufferable as he likes, and in his view, it's warranted, but if anyone else dares challenge him, he starts crying like a baby.

Grace isn't in RCM's repertoire because it wasn't in Herbie's either, and that's why people follow RCM, because they think he's the one still doing Herbie's "work." Let's face it, in any of the Herbie Mini-Me "works" grace is a borderline taboo subject.

Back when I was still active in the COGs, I once preached a split-sermon or sermonette on grace where I tried to reconcile the conflicting scriptures on it, and was commended by one of my peers for having the guts to walk out into that minefield, while he confessed he had wanted to, but hadn't had the nerve. I think I only got away with it because I laid out what I was not trying to say just as clearly as what I was trying to say. Without that, I probably would have been censured in some way.

Sure, LCG and others might write cleverly worded and heavily vetted statements about grace in their literature, because that's intended, among other things, to fool non-COG people into thinking that maybe they're not cults. But the fact there's a chilling-effect such that you'll almost never hear it preached about shows that Armstrongism as a movement isn't happy with grace, and probably wishes the bible texts didn't mention it either, even though they do.

Eh, it'd be nice if any of that stuff were true, but if it were, we'd know it, instead of being asked to take it on faith by anonymous authors, so, kind of a moot topic at any rate.

Anonymous said...

6:54 AM Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I will chew on your point of view. I've heard Copeland quote John 10:34-35, so i question whether bringing it up is "in true Armstrongite fashion." You didn't address my point that humans already having a God plane mind. Mentally, psychologically we are like God. Many scriptures mention a resurrection to spirit life such as:

Danial 12:3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.

Scriptures use the word 'born' into the kingdom. implying eternal growth as individuals. Collectively, this sounds very much like becoming like a God in his kingdom.

Cold blooded murderer * said...

January 12, 2016 at 9:19 AM

Tell me - when have I ever 'cried like a baby' here? Show us.

My use of that tag is not out of protest that it was directed at me. It is being used as a way to highlight the low tone and abusive terms employed by certain visitors here. Do you not think it's a shame that in just one thread of comments a list of ten put-down terms could be discovered? These words and phrases ranged from mild name calling (yes, as often employed by Grade 1-3 children) to foul accusations of one having regular sex with the corpses of dead wives. Disgusting!!!

Tell us where did you challenge the writer of that necrophilia line? Does that get a pass? Shamefully, among some here, it does. But, you write that my contributions are beyond suffering. All I can say is your suffering threshold is very, very low.

For the record, what drew my attention to the low tone here were comments made on another thread about Wallace Smith. He is a very pleasant, well informed and capable commentator, teacher and television presenter. But one here, instead of refuting what Mr Smith had said simply abused him.

You can call me whatever you like. I will lose no sleep. I am amused that some of you cannot bring yourselves to address me as Cold Blooded Murderer. But I predict that when I switch back to Priam some will insist on using my present tag.

*My tag is because I was accused of so doing by someone here who claimed I talked down to another commenter. It's to exemplify the foul accusations some here make.





Same Anonymous from January 10, 2016 at 3:39 PM who has been conversing with Priam said...

Oh Priam, aka CBM – how pathetic!

While I must commend you for engaging me more than any LCG member, or even dear family member, ever has on the topic of your beliefs, your blindness fills me with grief!

You believe in salvation by grace alone? Then why must you “cut and paste” official info about that topic from LCG literature? Please tell me why you do not see it as a problem that your church does not have entire booklets or telecasts, or even sermons on the topic?

LCG has plenty of articles, sermons, and telecasts on law. If grace, not law, is the basis of salvation, should not LCG spend at least equal time on grace?

Is salvation by grace offered by a Savior good news? Is it not The Gospel? Why is LCG NOT preaching this good news, this Gospel, in ways that you can share links with us?

Why did you not address the horror of RCM only getting a bit cozy with Jesus after 60 years of his ministry? Is that not a problem – even though RCM maintains he has not made a serious mistake in his ministry?

Please tell me, as RCM is now preaching a bit more about Jesus – is he indeed moving closer to the “truth” or doctrines first delivered by HWA – or – is he moving closer to the preaching of “mainstream” Protestantism?

Priam, you will eventually have to choose between following Jesus, the Word revealed in the Bible – or LCG’s lack of the Word on record in their copious media history.

Priam, I am very appreciative, yea verily enthralled, that you’ve provided even this much feedback; may I dare ask that you answer each of my questions in this post?

Anonymous said...

Cold Blooded Murder Priam,
The entirety of insults hurled at Spanky on this whole blog don't come close to the destruction he waged on a multitude of innocent, hopeful, and kind souls that Spanky and crew assassinated during the Manpower Meetings. I have personal experience with Spanky's cruel murderous tactics and much has been documented from the Manpower jerk-fest. There is nothing wrong with depicting Spanky as he truly is, even if that offends you. After all Pervie Herbie did say Spanky "rubbed his fur the wrong way", so if you are on Spanky's side, you're bound to be rubbing in a direction of hurt.

Anonymous said...

Teacher Priam baits people with nit picking. If a sucker responds with an explanation, Priam pounces on the victim in full teacher mode. The victim responds with 'you are harming me by treating me like a child.' Lastly, Priam responds with a persecution martyr complex. It is a 'games people play' played over and over and over.

Priam said...

January 12, 2016 at 8:00 PM

Forty years ago I chose to follow Jesus as you now urge me to. He lived a perfect, sinless life and lives that life in me through the Holy Spirit as I surrender to Him. I do not come close to matching His perfect example and the fault lies with me. But He mercifully extends His grace and help to a weak man.

I love Jesus and His Father because of what they have done and are doing for me. His word, the Bible, teaches me that I can express my love by walking after His commandments and doing those things that are pleasing in His sight. I have found his commandments to bring freedom and to not be burdensome.

Anonymous said...

Rod Meredith has left scores of wounded in his destructive wake. If Priam has educated himself on RCM's less than sterling history but has decided to defend and follow his leadership anyway, is there really anything we can say here to enlighten him?

A man of God would not do the hateful, hurtful, self-serving things that RCM has done for decades.

I myself was a victim of Meredith. And while I spent months and months trying to reconcile through apology after apology because it was the Christian thing to do, he refused to even speak to me or reply to my letters. Can you imagine Christ doing that?! All the while, Meredith claims to be Christ's 1st in command on Earth. He is spiritually immature and vindictive.

This is Priam's leader. I am 100% confident after reading Priam's comments over the week that he is too intelligent to put up with Meredith and his type for too long. He will come to a point when he realizes that someone with such poor character can not be the leader of 'God's True Church' and he will begin to search elsewhere. That is unless, Priam is being given money and power from RCM. In that case, it could go on for ever.

Don't be a sellout Priam.

Anonymous said...

I haven't been on this site very long, so I was under the impression that Priam is a woman. It must be because of Priams nit picking. Can l have clarification on this point.

Anonymous said...

Priam is a Greek god so I assumed male

Anonymous said...


Priam is/was not a Greek god.

Anonymous said...

Priam was a Greek king descended from Zeus according to the family tree on Wikipedia.

Samantha said...

Just looking through the comments above. Most ridiculous of all ---

"my complaint is having my self image attacked by being treated like a child." 9:02AM

Whaaaaat?! Your self image is a figment of your imagination.

Grow a pair! Where are men with cojones these days?

Even our sailors are a bunch of pussies kneeling in front of Iranians

OH, that complainer is a woman? Sorry, my apologies. You have an excuse. That is - women being women are given to hysteria. Unless we've had a hysterectomy. :(

I know, I know. :)

The Anonymous whose questions Priam decided not to answer, said...

Priam, AKA CBM – you have chosen to follow a leader and a church that preaches a Jesus-less, grace-less gospel. They do not preach the sentiments you just wrote about – if they did, you could easily provide a link to their material. Your choice is very sad because while you think you are keeping His commandments, you are really rejecting the opportunity to stand with Jesus and be involved in sharing the Gospel of grace. Instead, you’ve chosen to support a cult that thinks it is more important to endlessly harp on weather disasters and speculations about Germany than it is to proclaim to the world the Good News about grace. Very sad!

Anonymous said...

Priam, a Greek God?
I was imagining she was like Rog’s sister and Leonard’s bang-ee from The Big Bang Theory – you know, Pria but, with an added m’stache. You know, kind of hot but no, kind of not.

Priam said...

January 13, 2016 at 5:53 PM

I provided a statement of my own beliefs and practices which I learned from God's Word as a member of God's Church. I had previously posted some clippings which support my statement. These included an excerpt from LCG's Statement of Beliefs and brief excerpts from several LCG articles which CLEARLY support our belief in salvation through the grace of God expressed in Jesus Christ. I directed people to a booklet on our future glorification which was one of the themes people said we never addressed.

People here were reduced to writing things such as (I paraphrase), "Well LCG doesn't really believe that" and "They were just anonymous statements. You can't take them seriously".

I have done my bit. But I am not going to spend much time acceding to your demands that I answer a series of your questions. I could answer them all but it would be time ill-spent.

I will say this - I searched on LCG's site for subjects such as grace, redemption, salvation, reconciliation and found a rich treasure trove of articles and videos which I plan to study and view. Thank you for prompting me to do that.

Those of you who have been lied to by the haters here; I urge you to likewise check out LCG's material.



Anonymous said...

Thanks, Priam. I will check it out.

I've been following these comments and I agree the language of many writers is shocking.

It almost make me recoil in the opposite direction. By that I mean I will examine what you suggest.

Anonymous said...

Samantha, you turn me on with your macho talk. More, give us more.

Anonymous said...

Samantha, again, you turn me on with your macho talk. You can put on that sexy outfit and spank me any time you want.

Anonymous said...

I have been in LCG for nearly 15 years. I have attended regularly in 6 different congregations in 5 different states as I have moved several times (including Charlotte for a couple of years). Despite the variety of speakers, I have 1st hand experience that grace is VERY seldom mentioned and if it is it is glossed over. I can't ever remember hearing any more than a one-liner token mention on the topic.

I also have 1st hand experience that LCG rarely preaches anything about Jesus. So much so that when I first started attending I actually asked my minister why they never seemed to even like saying the word "Jesus". The answer I was given was something like, "we are commanded to teach the gospel of the coming Kingdom of God, NOT the person of Jesus". I replied that Christ left for us a perfect example and was an excellent study in how to have the Christian character we need to even attempt to make it in the Kingdom. I said to the minister, "what's the point of preaching the Kingdom if you don't instruct us on how to get there?". I was completely fluffed off and never given a real answer.

The only time I remember hearing anything about Christ's example and about how to develop His character was in Christian Character class at camp (LYC).

The search results you mention may bring up the word or phrase but that doesn't mean they are focused on or given any substance in LCG. It is one of my biggest complaints. My studies on grace have all been done either alone or with friends at private Bible studies (which we also have to keep secret so we don't get in trouble).

My observation is that this problem has gotten worse, not better in the last several years. I am extremely tired of hearing about obeying and submitting to ministerial authority and how the degree to which we support LCG is akin to the position we will be given in the Kingdom. I squarely disagree. I believe how we treat one another and how we reflect Christ in the big things and in the small will dictate our reward. It has no more to do with submission to LCG ministry than to submission to any of our fellow human beings. We are to humbly serve one another, NOT being a respecter of persons.

I am becoming exhausted with the same messages over and over again. The Bible is a "treasure trove" (to use Priam's expression) of topics. Why must we in LCG always focus on the same 3 or 4 topics? I find that EVEN if the title of a sermon looks promising, it almost always goes back to the same words and topics. So I'm curious to see if a sermon that shows up under the search "grace" would actually be about grace or if it would ultimately end up being about the same topics routinely spoken of. I will listen to one today with hope.

I am barely hanging on to membership in LCG. I was initially drawn to it because I was impressed that they 'keep the whole Bible' but after over a decade of membership I have come to learn that they really don't keep the whole Bible. Just parts of it. Just because those 'parts' are different than the parts that mainstream Christians keep doesn't make them any more righteous.

I have also been really disheartened seeing how the ministry treats members in more than one situation. I would be willing to say that seeing ministry do bad things to good people might be worse than hearing the same sermons repackaged and delivered over and over again.

In summary, what Priam is saying might be partially true but he has most certainly covered it with a thick layer of candy coating. In my experience, checking out LCGs material is more likely to prove his opposition right than himself.

I will hold out to see if it gets better under Mr. Weston. I like him and have high hopes for an improvement come next August.

Anonymous said...

Priam you cant admonish us for remaining anonymous when you yourself are posting anonymously.

I, like you, am still in LCG and I know that they monitor this site and I don't want to be kicked out, which would happen if they know who I was.

Anonymous said...

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God (Eph 2:8)

Not through your own doing. It is a freely given gift.

Anonymous said...

7.25 My belief is that it's grace, not faith that is the freely given gift according to that bible verse.

Anonymous said...

Decades ago, a minister said in a sermon that the spiritual food in sermons is equivalent to Israel manna from heaven. I eventually concluded that it is poison from hell, with some Christian window dressing. Notice the topics never brought up in church sermons or literature:
1 Autonomy or intellectual independence which is the holy of holies.
2 Assertiveness. Respecting others and ones own boundaries.
3 Thinking skills. The mind is human beings tool of survival. There are many excellent books on the market for this.
4 Trading, as in parable of talents. Trade means self interest, a taboo in the church. It means making ones best judgment, another taboo. It means self profit another taboo.
5 How to grow as a person. Again, there are many good books on self development.
6. Gods laws are never magnified. Instead, it is Kenneth Copeland type religious slop with no practical application in every day life. Church members are devoid of real wisdom, even after listening to thousands of sermons.
7. Reprogramming ones mind. It's part of wisdom, but l mention it separately since it is a big topic. It comes under meditation in the bible. Ministers in their 'sermons' are constantly mis programming members minds with obey, yield, surrender, submit. Never mind that trade means that government should basically not be there. The ministers know that mental programming is a important topic, but they hide it from their members.
l think l have covered the major ones. When l was a church member, l often came across long time members, 10 years plus, who were socially semi illiterate. Shouldn't this be taught in church?
When you consider what can be, yet what is in fact taught, it's tragic. I can't help wondering whether many members have lost their eternal lives because of their church 'diet'?

The Anonymous whose questions Priam won’t answer lest she incriminate LCG, said...

Priam, aka CBM – you are in denial; although that may be working for you now, you will be called to account for why you are choosing the words of LCG men over the Word. LCG does not have any substantial media on grace. You have proven that in your failure to provide any links to that material. The wording in the statement of belief on salvation sounds kind of good – until you uncover that is only masking the works-based beliefs, as I pointed out earlier. Unless LCG preaches grace as much as St. Paul did, or does, through the Living Word of God, it is preaching another gospel. You have made your choice to serve this other gospel. May God have mercy on you.

Anonymous said...

Samantha says 'Even our sailors are a bunch of pussies kneeling in front of Iranians'
This the historic church double standard.
People are taught to be passive and docile in the churches(child idiots), yet they expect their nation to be a roaring lion in international affairs. This is not surprising. They want their nation to protect itself, so that it is safe for them to play 'church.' Gotta protect churchworld.

Anonymous said...

6:19 PM Isn't 'works-based beliefs' obvious from the parable of the talents. The person who turned his one talent to five, was given five cities to rule in the next life, and the one who turned his one talent to ten, was given ten cities to rule.

Anonymous said...

Anon January 12, 2016 at 9:52 AM - Here is how I choose to answer your point about humans having a God plane mind, and your belief that humans psychologically are like God.

For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, declares the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways and My thoughts than your thoughts. (Isaiah 55:8-9)

I was with LCG for a long time, and they are wrong about what they believe and preach is "the Gospel". It's not the Gospel of Grace. It is not the Gospel. They are deceived and are deceiving you with the terms and jargon they use and learned from their teacher Herbert W. Armstrong.

As I said before, the booklet "Your Ultimate Destiny" DOES NOT deal specifically with future glorification. It deals specifically with human deification ("You will be God as God is God" - i.e. the doctrine of apotheosis).

What Roderick C. Meredith, his LCG and all the other COG's that still follow Herbert W. Armstrong mean by "the Big Picture of God's great Plan" is that worthy humans will be "born again" to become God "just as God is God". This sinful and destructive heresy (Isaiah 43:10 and 2 Peter 2:1) commonly referred to as "the God Family" concept and "Man's Ultimate Destiny" is the proclaiming of another Jesus, a different spirit and a different gospel (Galatians 1:6-9 and 2 Corinthians 11:4).

The Holy Scriptures plainly show that humans will not be “born again” to “become God just as God is God”!

Humans will never be God! You will never "be God"!

Human deification is a lie and if you believe that you are going to be “born again” to “be God” then you, just like LCG and all the other COG's that still follow Herbert W. Armstrong are of your father the Devil (John 8:44, Isaiah 14:12-14; Genesis 3:4-5 - NKJV).

I don't know you, but I care about your life now and in the future to come and againg implore you and all of LCG to repent of this sinful belief and turn to Jesus Christ (John 14:6) before it is too late!

I won't be checking for a reply to this post, so please take care of yourself and may God Bless you.

Anonymous said...

11.26 AM, expressing your opinion, then walking away is immoral, Trade means that you express your opinion, then the other person expresses theirs. L found this common experience in Gods church. Regarding lsaiah 55:8, the 'My ways are not your ways..' is referring to the ten commandments, nothing more. I remind you that Genesis tells us that we are made in Gods image, both physically and mentally. Psychologically, we are God. In john 3:3 Christ tells us that unless a person is born again, the person cannot enter the kingdom. A born baby does not have the knowledge and abilities of its parents. But given enough time it has. Once a person is BORN into Gods kingdom, that person will have billions of years in which to grow. Doesn't that mean people will become more and more like God? We will never Gods super intelligence and creative powers, but we will still be awesome beings

Anonymous said...

11:26 AM "The Holy Scriptures plainly show that humans will not be “born again” to “become God just as God is God”!
I agree that born again Christians will be "as God is God' in the sense of having His super abilities such as creating the laws of physics and creating a universe. That's a stretch.

Anonymous said...

11:26 AM Correction.I meant: 'I agree that born again Christians will be NOT be "as God is God'...'

The Anonymous whose questions Priam won't answer because salvation is by grace alone and COGs don't like too much talk about grace, said...

Hey Anonymous of January 14, 2016 at 11:01 PM,

You asked: “Isn't 'works-based beliefs' obvious from the parable of the talents?”
Sorry but, perhaps you haven’t had the time to read all the posts here or perhaps your COG indoctrination is impairing your reasoning.

All parts of the Bible are holy and edifying – especially if you can read them without the official COG slant. Unfortunately, your indoctrination has been heavy on passages like the parable of the talents but will surely not contain verses on grace like:

Ephesians 2:5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved

Ephesians 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

Good and wise works are good and wise to do. However, no amount of good or wise works will earn will earn you salvation. Salvation is all about grace.

You won’t learn much about grace from the COGs but, since salvation is of the utmost importance, you should try learning about it outside of the COGs. The COGs can only continue to confuse you on salvation and the role of works.