Thursday, January 28, 2016

Why God Does Not Answer Prayers?




Why God Does Not Answer Prayers?

Many pastors and preachers will try to tell you that the reason God does not answer prayer is because of your sins, or because you are asking for the wrong things, or you ask something that is not the will of God, or perhaps you ask in lust or you ask amiss or your prayer is not according to scripture.

Are those valid reasons why God does not answer prayer?  What if you pray to God, but you are not a Christian? Perhaps you pray, but your beliefs differ from those who read the King James Bible.

What if your country or nation is being bombed and attacked, as happened to Iraq and you prayed to God or Allah, but the death and destruction happened anyway?  What if members of your family perished in war and you prayed your heart out?

What if you were a church going Christian and a tornado ripped through your neighborhood and destroyed many homes and even the lives of other church goers?  What then?   What if a horrendous earthquake happened when you were living in California and freeways collapsed upon cars and crushed church going Christians to death?

What if your child developed leukemia and you as parents and your church going friends, prayed with all your might for healing and the child died anyway?  What then?

Does God really answer prayer?  Why would God selectively answer the prayers of some, but neglect the prayers of millions of other human beings?

I once read that a man was driving his vehicle and suddenly the thought came to him, that he should not go around a curve ahead and sure enough a truck came around in a manner that would have resulted in a head-on collision.  Was that God?  The man thought so.  Why would God put that thought in his mind, while allowing 50,000 other people to die in auto accidents that same year?

Many people attribute "healing" recovery to God, but at the same time there are thousands of others who are not healed.  Why would God heal some people and not others?  Makes no sense whatsoever.

Even in sports, many sports players thank God for their victory, as if God micro-managed their winning game? Is that really just a false belief?

Why on earth would God place a priority over a football or basketball game, while allowing thousands of people to die in wars, tornadoes, hurricanes, cancer, auto accidents or whatever???

Christians and church goers seem to live in a fantasy world about answered prayer.  Some Christians think God directed them to get a job flipping hamburgers, and then when they want to go elsewhere, suddenly God directed them to go to work for another business.  Is that God?

Does God really micromanage the lives of human beings?  If he did, then do humans have freewill?  Would God really cause you to buy a lottery ticket, in which you won $200-million dollars?

After 73 years of living on planet earth, I would have to come to the conclusion that church going Christians are very gullible and naive human beings, with almost zero discernment about God or reality.  And the belief that INK on PAPER is "inspired" by God, is a fatal false belief.


Van Robison

78 comments:

Michael said...

This article hits the nail on the head.

Fundamentally, it's hard for any of us to shake an overwhelming sense that we are special. Must be hard-wired into us.

Thus, "God" listens to our prayers having to do with the most mundane, detailed aspects of our life. Touchdowns, switching lanes, is this the partner for me, etc.
What is important to us is also immensely important to God too.

Starving or otherwise suffering humans in far, far away places? We might be reasonably good humans beings, but they're just not a priority for us, therefore not a priority for our personal god either.

Incidentally, COGdom always worked well with this feeling of specialness. We were the firstfruits, the called-out ones. God was not working with the world at this time.
Hand-chosen. Why? Who knows, just something special about us that God loved.
How convenient! Yes, of course we knew we were special, how could it be otherwise?

Then some take it even further, why, I might even be one of the 2 witnesses! Or like Pack, not only a firstfruit, but he was specifically mentioned and prophesied as the Elijah to come!

Leaving WCG, it took awhile for me to really get it that, apart from being unique as a human being as is everyone, there's nothing particularly special about me, and to learn to be content and happy with that fact. Just enjoy the experience.

Darren C. said...

God's existence is not determined by how we evaluate responses to our prayers. Yes, when we perceive that evils are not corrected after we pray, it can very difficult to understand, but that doesn't mean God does not have a greater reason for allowing a tragedy. He can right the wrongs now or at the end of time. Difficult to accept, but absolutely reasonable.

When we experience heartbreaks and difficulties in life, it need not cause us to question the inspiration of Sacred Scripture. There is no logical connection, though the struggle is perfectly understandable.

What we do know around here is that Armstrongism is a farce, a sham. But just because mirages exist, it doesn't follow that there is no such thing as an Oasis.

DennisCDiehl said...

Perhaps the answer to all this, so well noted and what most Christians who live long enough to experience these realities , is simply that there is no God.

If the Ink on Paper is a God's best attempt to communicate, then we are of all men most miserable. It's a cut and pasted hodgepodge of myth and political posturing by prophets, priests and kings with every "said" by a God as mere heresay and filtered through humans who tell us "God told me" We'd not put up with that today.

The Bible contains its own apologetics for unanswered prayer.

"Why art thou so afar off"

"Hear me oh God"

"Why art thou so afar off?"

Of course we have the standard Biblical apologetics of "MY ways aren't your ways." "The wisdom of man is foolishness with God" and "God sees not as a man sees..." but they are also just answers humans came up with to answer this question of no answer.

" After the earthquake came a fire, but the LORD was not in the fire. And after the fire came a gentle whisper." I Kings 19:11-12. The "gentle whisper" is made up in the mind or God doesn't know how to use his thunderous voice.
(Bob Thiel please note God is not in all earthquakes , fire and weather...none actually.)

The OT is full of whinning, begging, sacrificing, divining, agonize fastings and dreams trying to get answers from the non-present or existent God.

The NT tells us in such dilemmas "you have not because you ask not but when you do ask and don't get , it's because you ask amiss" In other words, great apologetic for "why don't he answer?"

Casting lots for a new Apostle isn't exactly much different from getting an answer from God with goat guts. God is supposed to have a finger. Let him use it to point and say for all to hear "that one."

There are reasons why the Bible starts out with God being man's buddy, talking and strolling with humans and as the Book wears on, disappearing and leaving us all to rely on other special humans telling us what God wants or does not want. "The Origin of Consciousness and the Bi-Cameral Mind" Julian Jayes for starters, but that takes reading outside the Book.

To me and in my view, study and experience, the answer is because there is no God, at least none as portrayed in the mythical stores of a cultic people. Each will have their own view and defend it as we are about to find out on this posting lol.

"God helped me find my car keys!" while someone else begs for God to save them as the plane heads for the ground says it all. Sometimes you eat the bear and sometimes the bear eats you.

DennisCDiehl said...

PS It's scary to think there might not be a God and the discussion to follow will contain many emotional and personal testimonials as to the fact that, to this or that person, there indeed is a God. It will always be like that.

I missed a plane in college that got hit by a fighter jet leaving LAX. Was it because God wanted me to be a WCG minister or maybe really a massage therapist? Or maybe to write about him not existing?

I met a car head on at night in Cumberland Gap , KY with family in car and knew it was over and my last words would be "oh shit" To this day I don't know where that car went but here am I.

and so on. Was I special then and what would have been the point? People die like this every day begging not to. I came to believe I lucked out for a change but that might be all.

I have anointed many scores of dying (not the sniffles) human beings as James 5:14 said with the promised results. NOT ONE.

The first human being I anointed as an Elder was my brother who is blind, deaf and can't speak. Still is. It was a good laugh though when he looked at me with that "what the hell are you doing" look.

and so on.

I have no real experience in the power of the effectual an fervent pray of the righteous availing much when needed the most. I know...I know...the key word is "righteous" lol.

Byker Bob said...

It didn't help all of our opinions of prayer that it wasn't something most of us might have done had we not been commanded and coerced into it as a reinforcement tool of cultic membership. It's doubtful that that type of prayer could have ever worked, being more or less forced upon us as it was. Also, it was supposed to have been all about Herbert W. Armstrong and "the work", which relegates it to the realm of brainwashing. Who could blame anyone who had suffered such an indignity for concluding that it was a crock?

Amongst us, there are going to be a variety of opinions, pro and con on this, based on different individual solutions people have found to the Armstrong problem. For me personally, there are parts of my life when prayer was part of the equation, and there have been parts when it was not. The chief difference between both states is probably my own attitude. It is more positive and less combative in many ways when prayer is in the equation. Prayer always helps me in getting the day off to a good start. It can sometimes also be introspective, helping me to keep certain things in check.

I also believe that the broad majority of people who do pray are just as concerned or more concerned for people who are diseased and starving as they would be about finding their car keys at a critical junction. It would be a mighty nice world if every human being could be winning all of the battles with the actuarial tables and probability. But, that does not seem to be the way things are set up. At least some of whatever is happening around us is going to affect us. This means that even if we are frugal, and debt free, we are usually still going to have some of the same inconveniences everybody else does if there happens to be a recession. It means we could be one of those who gets the flu in an epidemic. Just because one of the prayers of a believer is answered doesn't make him responsible for the starvation and death of a small child in west Africa. In fact, I hope that my prayers for people in impoverished third world countries are being answered as well as the ones for me. There are always going to be times in the lives of humans where we could use helpful solutions, or help in just plain dealing with life.

I can certainly understand opposing viewpoints, but I pray because I enjoy it, and it works for me. Maybe not according to the criteria of others, but then again, I am not them. I am me.

BB

Humberto said...

First of all we must say that God has a will, and that will be true in humans, like it or not, in fact Jesus Christ was on the earth He asked the Father's will and not yours be done, God is no respecter of people and does not discriminate, but this time not calling all humanity at this stage of his plan where some are being called according to purpose.

Rom 8:28 And we know that to them that love God all things work together for good, that is, who according to His purpose are called.

Reasons why God does not answer prayers are many, one is to have a genuine faith, another reason is
1Pe_3: 7 You husbands likewise, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered.

Van Robison is clearly a person without spiritual insight, a natural person really does not understand anything about God, this article is of extreme ignorance of the rudiments of God.

unfortunately for Robison Bible a book that only has is spiritually discerned.

1Co_2: 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness to him, neither can he know them because they are spiritually discerned.

Surely there must be thinking we're crazy.

1Co_1: 18 For the preaching of the cross is foolishness to those who perish; but those who are being saved it is, to us, it is God's power.

This has already happened in the times of the apostles and will happen again, chasing people who profess a faith, almost like a culture opposed to the Semites.

Luc_24: 11 But they seemed to them the words of them crazy, and they did not believe.

k-baradanikto said...

Dennis,

Yes, but peculiar "coincidences" do sometimes happen. Whether they are all coincidences, or none are coincidences, or some are and some aren't, I don't know, but I do believe there is a spiritual reality. We surely see through a glass darkly, and various atrocities, ecclesiastical con-men, and doctrinal posturings can cloud our view even further, but none of that changes the fact that there is in all likelihood more to life than this physical existence.

Anonymous said...

"It's scary to think there might not be a God and the discussion to follow will contain many emotional and personal testimonials as to the fact that, to this or that person, there indeed is a God. It will always be like that."

Yep. What's interesting is that believers in the thousands of deities have heartfelt testimony "proving" (to themselves, really) that their particular deities answered their prayers in fantastic ways.
It stems from Early Man trying to make sense of, and have a greater sense of control over natural forces. Such super-natural beliefs have the effect of alleviating existential anxiety to some extent.

And along the way, countless people - both secular and religious - (HWA included), have found that techniques of manipulating people are the most effective in exerting control over their own lives' situations. These learned salesmen often become assholes, though, and develop an overblown sense of self, while increasingly failing to distinguish between reasonable and unreasonable strategies of dealing with their fellow humans.

Black Ops Mikey said...

Well, first of all, those who believe in British Israelism are totally wrong and should not expect that God would answer any of their prayers in their delusion, particularly when they got their beliefs from a false prophet.

No one bothered to comment (yet) on the ABSOLUTE promise of Jesus that "anything you ask in my name" will be granted. Later on though, there are a bunch of conditions which just as absolutely reverse this 'formula'. Things like, you must obey God's Law (whatever that is) and it must be God's Will (how in the heck would you know that?). Moreover, even though God knows what you need, you MUST ask. And like the unjust judge, you must pester Him until He relents.

This paints a picture of God of a Being which has lived forever and has created us because otherwise He'd be bored. We're the continuing soap opera which entertains Him because He has a flair for the dramatic and He needs to be entertained. This means He would set up conditions for us to see what we would do for dramatic effect. Sometimes He will intervene and perform miracles, just to keep things interesting. But most of the time, He doesn't just to see how everything will turn out. You can be sure though that He protects earth from the worst of stuff like an extinction event because it would be terrible to lose his investment.

But it gets worse.

He allows Satan to be the god of this world and those of us who have followed the Winchester Brothers on Supernatural can see how this works out. It adds to the dramatic effect to see how people handle tragedy.

Dr. Neil deDrasse Tyson and I have a disagreement about Artificial Intelligence. I think that when or if quantum computing generates a viable AI, the human race is in trouble, but he does not. Here's my take: You don't really want an advanced intelligence in control which cannot have any empathy for human beings. Cautionary tales like the Terminator Skynet, or, if you really want something scary try ex Machina (for free on Amazon.com Prime). Now God, who is supposedly intellectually our superior probably has no empathy for lower creatures like us -- we're the ants in the ant farm. So Jesus had to be invented to make it seem like God can understand us, but even with that, we can be rather suspicious because at best Jesus only really suffered for up to 48 hours, was never married and has no idea what it is to suffer chronic geriatric diseases and pain.

This, of course, is all speculation.

Not unlike the whole Bible.

Connie Schmidt said...

My prayer , and the prayer of millions of others, that the Chicago Cubs win the World Series, (which they have not obtained in well over 100 years) , are not being answered.

Thus, by the logic of some on this post... then there is no God.

Anonymous said...

Very interesting responses!-
"Reasons why God does not answer prayers are many, one is to have a genuine faith, another reason is 1Pe_3: 7 You husbands likewise, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honor to the wife as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that your prayers be not hindered."
One of the most popular reasons for unanswered prayers has been the "lack of faith" charge, which is basically no different than the old "blame the victim" cult shtick.

I admit to being ignorant of the "wife as weaker vessel" reason, though. That's a new one- yet unsurprising- to me.

But, I still wonder why although the Bible exhorts “Thy will be done” , it's adherents also 'pray their asses off' to ask for their own prizes to be delivered to them by Jesus. Do such people presume to know what God's plan is for them? It seems some people think God is such a dickbrain that they need to help His plan along.... for their own purposes, LOL!

Anonymous said...

Why evil? Perhaps someone can help me understand how a loving God could allow so much suffering to descend on Job just to win a bar bet with Satan. Why didn't God just tell Satan to go screw himself rather than take him up on his bet? I know that this world sucks in so many ways. I just returned from my seventh trip to Tanzania where poverty and ignorance is appalling. I think the apologist Norman Geisler said that God made evil possible because of free will; but we made it actual by our choices.

Darren C. said...

We should keep in mind that prayer is not all about placing orders and expecting them to be fulfilled according to our liking.

It is a communion with our Father. Children have a hard time understanding why their parents don't immediately fulfill their every desire even when the parents have the ability to do so. The parents may have good reason for their responses beyond a child's grasp. That's no justification to doubt the parents' existence.

Psalm 14:1 said...

The fool has said in his heart there is no God...

DennisCDiehl said...

Connie noted:"My prayer , and the prayer of millions of others, that the Chicago Cubs win the World Series, (which they have not obtained in well over 100 years) , are not being answered.

Thus, by the logic of some on this post... then there is no God."

"You can ask for ANYTHING in my name, and I will do it, so that the Son can bring glory to the Father."

Keep asking! :) Actually, I believe we would realize we are speaking of that which a sincere Christian might ask of God concerning life, death, survival and understanding.

As a college student, I used the prayer closet (out of guilt and habit I suppose as it got old) to ask God to "bless and inspire" this or that endeavor or person (the Leaders) and please place me where I can be of the best use etc in the ministry etc.

I personally don't see that having worked out so well save getting out of it and growing up in grace and knowledge someone failed to tell me about.

"Dennis,

Yes, but peculiar "coincidences" do sometimes happen. Whether they are all coincidences, or none are coincidences, or some are and some aren't, I don't know, but I do believe there is a spiritual reality."

I agree. There are synchronizations for whatever reasons real or imagined. Big topic but human consciousness over all else promotes our quests for a true spirituality.

There may be much more to mind/brain/consciousness than a Bronze Age view could imagine. We'll see. But it is not from a obscure cultic mountain god, ruling an obscure people at an obscure time and place.

Humberto, each has their own journey. Just because you don't understand someone else's is no reason to label them a "man who clearly has no spiritual insight" I think he understands a lot and well. IMHO

Anonymous said...

This confusion regarding unanswered prayer is another example of rejecting trade. In the parable of the talents, Christs likens Himself to nobleman going off to a far country. This rules out micromanaging peoples lives. This means people choosing their own hopes, dreams, gaols, hobbies etc. In today's increasingly tyrannical environment, people don't comprehend this. This is especially true in the Armstrongite 'government is everything' churches. This is an inversion of the truth. Instead of people acting by right and the government acting by permission (as specified by the American constitution), we have the inversion of government acting by right, and church members acting by permission. Notice that in the Armstrongite churches, rights are a taboo topic. I don't even see the word in this or other dissident sites for that matter. Trade, ie making your own best judgement, adds much clarity to what to ask and no ask in prayer, and why God does not answer many prayer requests. People should make their own choices rather than expecting some daddy or mommy to make the decision for them.
Regards. TradingGuy.

Black Ops Mikey said...

The Armstrongist ministers explained it decades ago: God answers all our prayers, it's just that sometimes the answer is "NO!.

That's totally disingenuous.

Unacceptable.

And please, if God is responsible for the Bible, He should apologize.

Anonymous said...

73 years old? I hope you are exercising so we won't lose you in the near future. Isn't it interesting that you only work out how the world works by the time you are old. Life is just too short. Imagine the life of Noah and friends who lived close to one thousand years. Weren't they lucky.

Anonymous said...

Those devout and faithful Armstrongists who think Armstrong's god is answering their prayers are proof that the undisciplined human mind is capable of seeing any picture it wants to see in the random background static of the universe.

Byker Bob said...

No! Age is the enemy! Noah and friends were not lucky. Once you get some age on you to the point where it's all down hill, its time to resume smoking, eat junk food, let medical issues go, and dump the vitamins and physical fitness. Fortunately, though, 75 is the new 65.

BB

DennisCDiehl said...


Trading guy noted:

Notice that in the Armstrongite churches, rights are a taboo topic. I don't even see the word in this or other dissident sites for that matter. Trade, ie making your own best judgement, adds much clarity to what to ask and no ask in prayer, and why God does not answer many prayer requests. People should make their own choices rather than expecting some daddy or mommy to make the decision for them.
Regards. TradingGuy.


http://www.thejournal.org/issues/issue127/bill-of-rights-for-church-members.html

Anonymous said...

Connie, as a life long miserable Cub fan, I gave up hoping and "praying" for the Cubs to win it all. For the first time in my 66 years, the Cubs on "paper" are predicted to win it all. But my long time prayers are for my 31 year old daughter to change her ways, get a skill and get a job. The same for my 34 year old step-son with a 4 year degree to find a full time job.

Praying can be frustrating, wondering if my sins make my prayers of no affect. But my wife, who was an abandon widow for many years, finally screamed at God for help and for good or bad found me 75 miles away on the internet and now I'm her Sugar Daddy and Mr. Fix it and go to church together. Maybe I need to scream more?

Anonymous said...

The late George Carlin stated that if you pray that about 50% of what you pray to happen would come to pass, but if you didn't pray for these things to happen you would get the same results about 50% would come to pass. Many times people come to the mistaken belief that God is answering prayer when they get a positive result to a prayer when it is the law of averages that some of the things you pray for happen and some things you pray for don't. If God doesn't answer a prayer some will say it is because it doesn't fit in with Gods will. Could the simple answer be that there is no God and we are just talking to air when we pray and we just think that God is or isn't answering prayer but the fact may be that there is no God to hear and answer us and what happens just happens?

Black Ops Mikey said...

It should be noted that CoG7D ministers of my acquaintance have told me that God used heal.

Do you suppose that's what happens when someone looking for drama gets bored?

Moves on?

And if prayers aren't much answered, what's the likelihood there's eternal life in your future?

Anonymous said...


PRAYER REQUEST

If anyone from the pre-1986 (or thereabouts) Worldwide Church of God still believes anything and still cares at all, church people are currently being ferociously attacked by merciless false prophets, short (Flurry) and tall (Pack). Remember them in your prayers. By “them” I mean the poor, abused sheeple, of course, not the overpaid, self-appointed, false prophets, though if you want to ask God to deal with them too, go ahead.

After Gerald R. Flurry of the Philadelphia Church of Fraud (PCG) suddenly decided that he was “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18-19, David C. Pack of the Restored Cash Grab (RCG) wrote a 71-page booklet called Is 'THAT PROPHET' Alive TODAY? to explain that the understanding in the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) under Herbert W. Armstrong was that “JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH is 'That Prophet'.” The resulting exodus from the PCG caused Gerald Flurry to flip-flop a bit and sort of accept that Deut. 18:18-19 was talking about Jesus Christ, but rambled on about a prophet coming, and still kept for himself the title of “That Prophet” that he had gotten from Deut. 18:18-19, as well as the idea that everyone had to listen to everything he said or else God would be mad at them.

Now, on Thursday January 21, 2016, the Restored Cash Grab posted a video called Elijah & That Prophet--The 1st Dominion Restoration (Part 4). Interestingly, according to the video it now turns out that David Pack is “That Prophet.” So, take that, Gerald, you little impostor! David Pack's booklet called Is 'THAT PROPHET' Alive TODAY? that had previously explained that “JESUS CHRIST OF NAZARETH is 'That Prophet'.” appears to have already disappeared from the Restored Cash Grab's website.

This pattern is familiar. David Pack had gone on for years criticizing Roderick C. Meredith of the Global/Living Church (GCG/LCG) for not believing that Herbert W. Armstrong was Elijah, and accusing Meredith of secretly desiring to be the Elijah. Then, another one of David Pack's booklets called I Will Send Elijah to Restore All Things disappeared from the Restored Cash Grab's website after David Pack decided in early 2015 that he himself, rather than Herbert W. Armstrong, was Elijah. Rod Meredith will be, like, sooo jealous!

The doctrinal changes in the Restored Cash Grab are coming so fast that it is probably difficult to change, update, delete, re-write, and publish it all. Booklets like End All Your FINANCIAL WORRIES and Taking Charge of Your FINANCES will also need to be either deleted or else revised to explain that you just give everything you have to raging Dave Packman (the devourer of everyone's house, not just the widows house) after he “restored” the doctrine of “common.” Good thing (meaning bad thing) that David Pack seems to be into that speedy “automatic writing” thing that demoniacs have been known for in the past.

David Pack has now gone from being just a minister to being an apostle, Joshua the High Priest, Elijah the Prophet, and now That Prophet. Truly, there is no limit to how high you can rise in a cult when you start it, lead it, and get to promote your own self. If this is not the SIGNAL for God's people to flee from David Pack, then what is? Maybe when David Pack stops being so modest and finally, humbly admits that he is the second coming of Jesus Christ?

Again, remember to pray for the poor little sheeple who have been chewed up by wolves, spit out, chewed up some more by other wolves, and spit out again, ad nauseam (that is, to a sickening or excessive degree).

Questeruk said...

We get some very weird logic on this board.

Black Ops Mikey saids “Well, first of all, those who believe in British Israelism are totally wrong and should not expect that God would answer any of their prayers in their delusion, particularly when they got their beliefs from a false prophet.”

So you think God just says to himself “Well that’s a stupid idea you have there – because of that there is no way I could possibly answer any prayers about anything - full stop”

Someone might think the world is flat – after all from where they are standing, while it may be a bit bumpy in places, it looks pretty flat in the main”.

We could apply Black Ops Mikey’s logic – that’s a stupid idea, so whatever this flat earth person may pray about, nothing is going to be answered by God.

But what if the world is flat? Clearly, in that case, God isn’t going to answer prayers of people that think the world is round. Seeing 99.999999% of people on earth do think the earth is round, does this explain why God doesn’t answer the prayers of just about everyone?

And if the people of US and UK just happened to be descended from the tribes of Israel? Well, again, then we have just discovered why the prayers of nearly all people on earth are not answered, haven’t we?

As Darren C mentioned, if everything a child asked of its parent, the parent rushed off and did, granting every whim of the child, then this isn’t going to be good for the development of the child, and the parents would have no life of their own but to be the provider of all things, good or bad, to the child.

In the long term, looking at life, as far as we are able to tell how an eternal being would see it, who knows that ultimately all his/her children will be given the chance to understand how things really are, then nearly all things that a person prays about in this life aren’t really all that important, whether or not God intervenes, or just lets things take their course.

Should I take this job, or that completely different job? It may be life changing, but long term the individual is going to learn a lot in life’s experience, regardless of which job they take. God can just let the individual take the responsibility themselves, and choose – then either way they will gain, and they will learn, and, more important, it will be the individual who has taken the choice, not something that god has forced on them.

Dennis as a student in his prayer closet may have prayed to a god to ‘please place me where I can be of the best use etc in the ministry etc.’ Well, did god need to answer, to show Dennis what to do? Or did he rather just say ‘You choose, Dennis’. Because God knew that if Dennis spend years as a minister, working with people, trying to do his best for them, or if he quit early, and went into his current business as a much younger man, again interacting with people, Dennis was still going to learn much the same lessons, maybe in different way, but long term it wasn’t really going to matter too much.

So when Black Ops Mikey, Darren C, Dennis, and others here, all move on to the next stage of things, god can say, ‘yes, you have all learnt, and had a rich experience in life, but most important, it wasn’t me, God, pushing you along a certain path, but rather you all, yourselves, chose that path, and by your own choices, you all learnt so many things. Now we can talk about what things really are about, and we can all move on and forward together’.

Anonymous said...

What if there is a God who has a superior mind and the power to create out of Himself a complex universe that the greatest human minds have yet to grasp and He has a purpose for human life and all that exists?

What if this God gave human beings a mind to use wisdom in choosing between right and wrong regarding the character that would be worthy of an eternal awareness and relationship with Him and other life forms sharing the wholeness of what we perceive as existing?

What if we reject the gift of life by rejecting the giver of life?

I personally have experienced a wholesome life and believe the scriptures reveal a wisdom that this life is given to prepare us a better life in an eternal existence. This means that even the ancient people had wisdom that seems to be lacking in the world today.

A person can believe what they want , but a belief that rejects a life source that lacks wisdom and creative powers is a person who believes they are no better than animals without the spiritual characteristics of human life.
AB

Anonymous said...

6.32PM, I'II pray for these people as you requested. I was in the church during the 70s and 80s, and I know how simple and gullible those people were. It seems that they have fallen even further into various mental traps, than in the Armstrong era. Trying to extricate themselves, especially after giving so much to that church, requires superhuman effort and/or a miracle from God. Even acknowledging the truth that they have been robbed blind, must be very painful. I must admit, I can't help wondering whether these people are trying to buy their way into eternal life, rather than qualifying for it. Still, it doesn't give Pack the right to fleece them.

Anonymous said...

Seeing the Bernie Sanders has decided to adapt Armstrongs 'give way,' there is a Deli sign in America that reads:

We have "Bernie" gas.
Fill up your car and
the next guy pays for it

Armstrongs 'give way' is really catching on.

Michael said...

In response to the believing apologists for why prayers "go answered" (= nothing happens when you pray).

Really, now.

Do you really, really think a can-do-it-all God would respond in a way that's indistinguishable from chance and circumstance and non-demonstrable?

You don't really do you?

It's perfectly consistent with the conclusion that men just made up the idea of a prayer hot-line, and there's no there there.

Somewhere deep down -- right? -- there's this gnawing feeling that when you get down on your knees you're just placating your inner desire to wish for things to go the way you would like them to, when there is not in fact anyone listening.

If that, the most likely scenario, is true, then would you want to continue doing it anyway? If so, have at it.

Not really my bag of chips.
It may not be the most pleasant thought, but we are in fact on our own
(Except that we have each other (sort of :-))

Anonymous said...

I liked the world better when nutty responses were posted on the sides of vans. You know, Jules Dervaes-style.

Homer said...

Could it be that the “God” being discussed here really doesn’t exist because mankind has created “God” in his (man’s) image? Have we have created our own concept of what “God” should be because we can only think and imagine in the realm of the physical? On the other hand, is there a source of everything that exists and that source is strength, might and power? As a general rule, we have left the understanding of the words in the Bible to others rather than trying or even wanting to prove things for ourselves, therefore depending on traditional understanding. One of the Hebrew words used where the English word “God” appears is “elhoim” #430 in Strong’s Concordance and is used in the verse quoted previously Jan 29 @ 9:04 AM. Psalms 14:1 - The fool has said in his heart there is no God. . . . The Hebrew word identified in Strong’s as #430 is the plural of #433 which is from #410. The base meaning of each of these words is strength, might, power. One might consider that the word “God” (a shortened form of the word good?) is a man made word for the source of all that exists and is not the “being” which mankind has personified as a “spirit being.” Also, when studying from Strong’s, one should realize that the definition of a word is given, then following the colon (:) the English word or words are listed as to how the Hebrew or Greek words are used in the Bible. Those English words are not necessarily accurate and true definitions or translations.

The word itself, #430 - 'ĕlôhı̂ym / elohim, is used in the Bible as a noun and as an adjective. The base root understanding of #430 - 'ĕlôhı̂ym / elohim can be shown to be more in the order of authority, greatness, strength and/or might. As a noun it can be one who is in authority and rules with greatness, strength and/or might. As an adjective it can describe the strength or might of an action or thing. Consider the following for its use other than “God” or gods:

Gen 23:6 Hear us, my lord: thou [art] a mighty(#430) prince among us: ….. (Refers to Abraham as elohim, but not as “God”)

Gen 30:8 …. With great(#430) wrestlings have I wrestled with my sister, … (Refers to Rachel and Leah - as elohim / “godly” wrestlers?)

Exo 9:28 …… that there be no mighty(#430) thunderings and hail; …….
(as elohim / “godly” thunder and hail?)

Exo 22:9 ….... come before the judges;(#430) [and] whom the judges(#430) shall condemn, (“godly” judges? - maybe, maybe not)

Jon 3:3 …... Now Nineveh was an exceeding(#430) great city of three days' journey. (Was Nineveh an elohim / “godly” city?)

Maybe if we could begin to think of the source of all that exists, not as a “sugar daddy,” but as the energy, strength, might, power and spirit that created the universe and put all things in motion. (Note: the phrase “spirit being” was not used here to describe that source.) Num 23:19 God is not a man, . . . . . .

In my opinion we all need to put aside all the “religious” traditions we have been fed all our lives and think outside the box of religion which keeps us limited in deed, but more importantly, in thought. One does not need to be “religious” to love our fellow man and the source of all that exists.

Black Ops Mikey said...

If the condition of the world is any indication, one thing is clear: Satan certainly hasn't been taking any vacations.

Perhaps we can all pray that God takes care of ISIS.

Or maybe we should just go about doing it ourselves.

Black Ops Mikey said...

So you think God just says to himself “Well that’s a stupid idea you have there – because of that there is no way I could possibly answer any prayers about anything - full stop”

No, I don't think that.

It's like this: People who deliberately embrace lies and refuse to repent certainly shouldn't have their prayers answered.

In fact, those embracing British Israelism have gotten into quite a snit because DNA has proved them wrong.

It's just that sort of defiance that shows a total lack of integrity that absolutely should never be rewarded with answered prayers. In fact, since British Israelism is the basis for false prophecies and the leaders of Armstrongism are false prophets, the one thing they should expect is to be put to death. Permanently.

Anonymous said...

"Van Robison is clearly a person without spiritual insight, a natural person really does not understand anything about God, this article is of extreme ignorance of the rudiments of God."


a painfully true statement....which also applies to almost everyone that regularly posts here.

God doesn't give them the answer they want, or do things the way they want Him to do them, therefore He doesn't exist.

the good news is, they will all have the opportunity to see one day.

God is merciful!

Anonymous said...

Homer
Are you saying that “the energy, strength, might, power and spirit that created the universe and put all things in motion.” lacks the mental capabilities that human life seems to have developed? This seems to imply that human life is the product of chemical and electrical forces that have always existed and are creating their own idea of what is right and wrong in human relationships. If this is true then we are subjected to what we see going on in the world today. Due to personal experiences and relationships we each have a belief system that varies and there will always be a battle for survival and personal contentment. Even defining what the love is that we should have for our fellow man varies from person to person. Believe me when I say I have been coping with those differences most of my 84 years of life.
AB

John Gordon said...

Anon 6:32 PM,

Is there anything new under the sun?

You concluded with writing: "...Again, remember to pray for the poor little sheeple who have been chewed up by wolves, spit out, chewed up some more by other wolves, and spit out again, ad nauseam (that is, to a sickening or excessive degree)..."

A long time ago, Micah found a reason(s) why God did not answer the prayers of some:

Micah 3:1 And I said, Hear, I pray you, O heads of Jacob, and ye princes of the house of Israel; Is it not for you to know judgment?
2 Who hate the good, and love the evil; who PLUCK OFF their skin from off them, and their flesh from off their bones;
3 Who also EAT the flesh of my people, and FLAY their skin from off them; and they break their bones, and chop them in pieces, as for the pot, and as flesh within the caldron.
4 Then shall they cry unto the LORD, but HE WILL NOT HEAR them: he will even hide his face from them at that time, as they have behaved themselves ill in their doings.
5 Thus saith the LORD concerning the prophets that MAKE my people ERR, that BITE with their teeth, and cry, Peace; and he that putteth not into their mouths, they even prepare war against him.
6 Therefore night shall be unto you, that ye shall not have a vision; and it shall be dark unto you, that ye shall not divine; and the sun shall go down over the prophets, and the day shall be dark over them.
7 Then shall the seers be ashamed, and the diviners confounded: yea, they shall all cover their lips; FOR THERE IS NO ANSWER OF GOD.


John

Anonymous said...

Herbie and the HQ staff were the one percent. The rest of us paid for their greed and extravagance. That's capitalism. It can't hurt to pray for the end of the system.

Ken said...

This is how I know that the idea of a prayer-answering god is pure bs. I was born into armstrongism. When I was about 8/9, my younger sister and I encountered something that was labeled a demonic attack and attributed to dissident influence in the household. The ministry was consulted and they instructed us with the "magic words" to use, in case such a thing were to happen again. It took 25 years for me to question the nature of such a religion, and the nature of such a god. What is the point of prayer? If it really just boils down to, "Thy will be done," it's a waste of time and energy, because god's going to do what god's going to do anyway.

Anonymous said...

Black Ops Mikey, God has answered my prayers regarding the truth of the tribulation on many occasions. Answer? The coming tribulation is real. America will be nuked, and the survivors enslaved. All those fears of destruction and being tortured by the Germans are correct. Freddy Krueger is real. Mock all you want Mickey.

Anonymous said...

Questeruk said...

"...We get some very weird logic on this board...So when Black Ops Mikey, Darren C, Dennis, and others here, all move on to the next stage of things, god can say, ‘yes, you have all learnt, and had a rich experience in life, but most important, it wasn’t me, God, pushing you along a certain path, but rather you all, yourselves, chose that path, and by your own choices, you all learnt so many things. Now we can talk about what things really are about, and we can all move on and forward together’..."

I suspect God won't really say anything like: "...you all, yourselves, chose that path, and by your own choices, you all learnt so many things..."

Learn what? Learn to hate evil????

Well, rather God, if He were to say something, may say something like the following:

"...the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually." Genesis 6:5

"...I know that the way of man is not in himself: it is not in man that walketh to direct his steps." Jeremiah 10:23

"For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would." Galatians 5:17

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." John 8:44

Or, shall we just apply that last verse to the religious leaders only?

"He that committeth sin is of the devil..." I John 3:8

Most, if not all, of us know what it feels like to travel down the paths of some of those verses, but how did that happen? Are we prone to making dumb choices?

God might go so far as to tell us that each of us has a spirit dwelling within us that "...lusteth to envy..." James 4:5

If these verses are true, then how can God say something like: "...you all, yourselves, chose that path, and by your own choices, you all learnt so many things"...? Who really wants to chose any of these evils associated with the above verses?

Regardless of how it all happens we eventually will be thankful that God somehow reconciled the entire world.

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, NOT IMPUTING their TRESPASSES unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation." 2 Corinthians 5:19

Now, whether God pushes any of us or not down some path: that may be another story, because God the Father does draw some folks:

"No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44

And that word draw does not mean push, but rather means drag.

John

Anonymous said...

(snort) you just couldn't resist the chance to stroke your own ego, 7:46?

Ed said...

Why pray? Doesn't God, (if he exists) know every thought in our minds? Doesn't he know our every need better then us? Doesn't he know precisely what is best for us in every circumstance? There is no need for us to pray if there is a God looking out for us.

Anonymous said...

6:47 AM You are ignoring the fact that our relationship to nature, man, including God, is a trading relationship. Hence, God doesn't force HImself on us. People had to ask Christ to heal them. He didn't touch their bodies without their permission, just like todays doctors. If you want God to answer a prayer request, you must first earn 'points' by praying for others first. It's called trade, since there is no Father Christmas. One must work to have ones prayers answered, and without the requests, nothing happens.

Cheers TradingGuy

Questeruk said...

Referring to my post Anonymous John said….

“I suspect God won't really say anything like: "...you all, yourselves, chose that path, and by your own choices, you all learnt so many things..."
Learn what? Learn to hate evil????”

Please read my comment in the context of what it is referring to – such as my example
”Should I take this job, or that completely different job?”

In that sort of situation, where the options are all something that is ‘morally OK’ to do, I am suggesting that God normally leaves it to the individual to make the choice, and to live by that decision, rather than either ‘push or drag’ the person down one particular option.

That is much different to someone praying to God, asking should they sin or should they avoid sin, which most of your scripture quotes were referencing.

Bear in mind that Satan was created into a perfect environment. From that perfect environment, never experiencing suffering that comes from sin, after who knows how long, he fell into sin. From perfection to suffering.

God is doing things different for mankind. Mankind is born into a sinful world. Most of mankind lives out their life in a sinful and suffering world, and only after a resurrection will they experience a lifestyle of love and peace.

God is allowing mankind to experience the effects of sin before they have the opportunity to experience the real life of living in harmony with others. From suffering to perfection.

Anonymous said...

Trading Guy...perhaps God could issue Green Stamp Books and when we pray for others we get prayer stamps to lick and stick in our book. When we fill the books we can then trade them in for great stuff!

Anonymous said...

"Bear in mind that Satan was created into a perfect environment."

Okay, I'll try to bear in mind that an imaginary infallible friend "accidentally" created an imaginary enemy. Some friend! lolz

"God is doing things different for mankind...God is allowing mankind to experience the effects of sin before they have the opportunity to experience the real life of living in harmony with others..."

And you know this how?

Michael said...

AnonymousJanuary 31, 2016 at 8:49 PM
"Bear in mind that Satan was created into a perfect environment."

Okay, I'll try to bear in mind that an imaginary infallible friend "accidentally" created an imaginary enemy. Some friend! lolz

well said, anon

this was a big aid in helping me get out of religion...
the idea of Satan is just ridiculous.
There's no excuse for a god creating him, couldn't foresee he would go bad, had to give him free will bu@lshit, whatever.
However you wish to slice it, God goofed, let's face it

Anonymous said...

7.45PM. You are such a funny man. Ha ha ha ha. You should up on stage with Jerry Seinfeld ha, ha ha ha.
Regards Trading?Guy

Anonymous said...

Dearest Trading?Guy,

Anonymous 7.45PM, who you called "such a funny man" had an excellent suggestion-
"God could issue Green Stamp Books and when we pray for others we get prayer stamps to lick and stick in our book. When we fill the books we can then trade them in for great stuff!"

My concern is this: God has clearly created defective products (which should be cause for the Federal Trade Commission to open a case against YHVH, with Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit listed as co-conspirators).
Don't forget about the "The Invitations" episode of Seinfeld in which toxic glue caused death. Plus, you KNOW how cheap people like YHVH and other Jews can be!

So, why should we think that The Three Stoo... oops, I mean The Three Gods would create a glue for those prayer stamps that's non-toxic?
Think about it. Those Jews are so cheap, they could squeeze water from a rock.

Cheers,
The "Stampin' Up!" Guy

Anonymous said...

10.13PM. A very interesting topic. I'm reminded of the last Star Trek NG movie, where Data observes that his exact physical double, unlike himself, has no interest in self development. The movie writers were onto something. Genesis does say that it grieved God that He made man in the pre flood world, or 'goofed' as you put it. But if it wasn't for this 'mistake,' we wouldn't be here either. I don't have the answers.

Anonymous said...

It is curious that the number of big miracles performed throughout history seems to drop off precipitously in an inverse relationship with the quality and availability of recording technology.

Questeruk said...

Anonymous (Michael) 10:13 said…

‘the idea of Satan is just ridiculous.
There's no excuse for a god creating him, couldn't foresee he would go bad, had to give him free will bu@lshit, whatever.
However you wish to slice it, God goofed, let's face it’

Would you rather god just created robots, with no independent will of their own? With independence comes risk – risk of things not always going the way you want with those to whom you have given the independence.

Maybe you are just thinking of some sort of ‘magic’ god – that sees every single detail that will happen in the future, right through eternity.

The Bible shows something different. While God is the same yesterday and today in his character, it is also apparent from Biblical events that God is learning, and gaining experience as events transpire.

I am sure he learnt a lot when Satan, an independent thinking individual, turned on God, his creator. It likely shaped the way God went about his plans for mankind.

I know I would prefer a future as a free thinking individual, committed to live in harmony with other free thinking individuals, rather a programmed robot, incapable of making my own choices.

Anonymous said...

Questeruk 3:52 PM commented with writing:

"...Please read my comment in the context of what it is referring to – such as my example ”Should I take this job, or that completely different job?”

In that sort of situation, where the options are all something that is ‘morally OK’ to do, I am suggesting that God normally leaves it to the individual to make the choice, and to live by that decision, rather than either ‘push or drag’ the person down one particular option.

That is much different to someone praying to God, asking should they sin or should they avoid sin, which most of your scripture quotes were referencing..."

What you say there is probably true to some extent. After all, why should God care if you choose to eat a beef hotdog or choose to eat a beef hamburger...or, as you pointed out, what sort of a job might one desire; however, how good are those choices? Are they perfect? Probably not. What's in them choices? Probably some stuff that isn't all that good for us along with some "good" stuff. Depending upon what is in the product there is evil within each one. Which one has the most evil? Either way you may just be making a choice between two evils. Which one do you want? It is still a choice to have some evil, but we don't like to think about food we purchase that way. I personally like to eat both products, but I prefer the hamburger. My wife on the other hand thinks I shouldn't eat hot dogs, because of what she knows to be in the meat. And life goes on...

And the verses I cited are still factors in our daily lives whether we do something that is "morally OK" to do, or not. As far as this entire creation is concerned we are told this:

"For the creature was MADE subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope," Romans 8:20

And that VANITY was not our choice. By what you wrote in your post, you understand human beings will "experience the effects of sin." Amen to that!

You also wrote: "... God is doing things different for mankind. Mankind is born into a sinful world..."

Adam and Eve were not born into a sinful world. In fact, their "human nature was very good...for awhile.

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Genesis 1:31

Mankind, Adam and Eve, were made on that 6th day and at that time they both were not only good, but "very good." They had none of that enmity (Romans 8:7) in them. They did not have that lust and envy (James 4:5) within them.

Satan was made perfectly evil (Isaiah 45:7). It has been appointed for human beings once to die. Satan and his angels guarantee that sin (I John 3:8) will occur in each of our lives (e.g. in a Christian like Paul - Romans 7:17, 20), and so will death (Hebrews 2:14). Evil is always present with us (Romans 7:21), regardless of what job one may be thinking about, or what food we choose to eat...etc.

Despite all of that, I too look forward to God's good news for the humanity of this world before He takes/destroys Satan and his angels (Matthew 25:41, 46; Ezekiel 28:19), namely:

"To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;" 2 Corinthians 5:19

John

Anonymous said...

1.25PM. Really? What of the many miracles of WW2? Russia had the worst winter in 130 years which kept the Nazis 10 miles Moscow? Watch a documentary on the attempts on Hitler's life. All 20 odd attempts failed leading Hitler to correctly believe he was being protected by providence. The result was that Europe was divided in half, resulting in the implementation and discrediting of communism. How about America being provoked by 9-11, resulting in America invading the 'wrong' country of Iraq? This removal of its neighbouring enemy enabled Iran's rise to power. It is not subtle. No advance technology is required. It's in front of your nose. The miracles are there.

Michael said...

Questeruk said:

"Maybe you are just thinking of some sort of ‘magic’ god – that sees every single detail that will happen in the future, right through eternity."
The Bible shows something different. While God is the same yesterday and today in his character, it is also apparent from Biblical events that God is learning, and gaining experience as events transpire."

Setting aside that fact that God is described as having perfect knowledge (all-knowing).
If we follow this through, Questeruk, you definitely run into problems.
If an eternal god is "learning, gaining experience as events transpire", then he always had less knowledge yesterday than he has today.

Logic therefore demands that as you go back, there was point in the past when he had no knowledge.

You can't have your infinite cake and eat it too. :-)

Michael said...

Michael said:
"Logic therefore demands that as you go back, there was point in the past when he had no knowledge"

Just for the sake of precision I should correct myself on that...
Logic would actually demand that there was a point in the past when he either had no knowledge or an infintesimally small amount of knowledge (compared to the present).
For example, at each point he could have had 10% less knowledge previously than after, so that it decreases in the past in an asymptotic manner...

Explanation overkill :-)

Questeruk said...

There is some logic to your logic, Michael.

The problem is, neither you nor I can really understand what past eternity actually means! (If you can, please do explain it to all of us).

I can understand life continuing on, and never ending, but, being a mortal, with a beginning, can't actually fully comprehend how a being could always have existed.

I am not sure that you do actually run into problems with this logic. Just maybe that would explain past eternity - God was there and slowly accumulated knowledge. I don't see that is necessarily a problem.

But seeing no human actually knows, your guess is as good as mine.

Have to wait and see I guess.

Homer said...

Response to AB, Jan 30 @ 9:31 AM

After having been involved with “religion” most of my 74 years of life, I began a personal study of the Bible about 11 years ago in order to attempt to gain a better understanding of what that book had to offer. Prior to that time I accepted what I was told because I had not proven what that book said. After having begun those studies and learning what the words meant rather than accepting the traditional teaching of my Baptist, Methodist and 35 years of ACOG background, I was told about 4 years ago to get my engineering brain out of the Bible. My response was something on the order of, “That will not happen, this universe and everything in it, including us, is an absolute engineering marvel and I want to understand as much about it as I can which includes why we are what we are without supposition and conjecture.” Whether or not the source I speak of has the “mental capabilities that human life seems to have developed” I can’t say. Each person must decide that for one’s self. However, “human life is the product of chemical and electrical forces” which are the result of the process of what has been created. The same goes for plant life and animal life, of which, we are all a part. All that exists is the product of the energy of chemical, electrical and mechanical forces or what we might call science. Those things are also referred to as the “Laws of Nature.” It is realized many reject science and engineering and remove such from their thought processes when discussing the Bible. Those things can and should not be rejected when searching for answers.

As has been stated several times on this blog, the vast majority of the Bible should be considered as allegory, metaphor, parable or “dark sayings” as the Old Testament calls it. Those things have hidden meanings but those meanings are available if one wants to search and understand what they are.

Anonymous said...

If God has always existed, means that time goes back into infinity. If time goes back into infinity, how can you ever get to the present?

Anonymous said...

"If time goes back into infinity, how can you ever get to the present?"

By being here now, by virtue of all my previous generations?

Is this a trick question?

(I'm totally aware that tricky Armstrongite trolls like TradingGuy, Questeruk, John and Ralph all want to teach us their 'Armstrongist Truths' even though they falsely deny that their crazy-wacky views are 'Armstrongist'!)

PLEASE CALL THE "WAMBULANCE"!!

Sick people with 'British Israelism' still on their brains after it being thoroughly scientifically debunked- like Questeruk and Ralph- need psychological help.

It was so funny that Ralph said BI was too complicated for him to understand, so he chose to still believe it!!!
That, along with his many positive comments about Herbert W. Armstrong combine to identify Ralph as a total Armstrongist troll.

It's also entertaining to read TradingGuy's, Questeruk's, John's and Ralph's stupidity.

Anonymous said...

Hey guys, (Questeruk John and Ralph), looks like we are the four Musketeers. Ha, ha ha. Why don't the people here ask their ministers whether trade, as in the parable of the talents, is Gods way rather than the 'give way.' And ask who does the giving and who does the getting. I bet the ministers/elders wont be laughing.

Cheers, TradingGuy

Questeruk said...

You know Anonymous 11.44am as far as I recall this is the first time I have been called a troll on this board. And I go back many years here.

You can always find me, as I always use the same byline - unlike various 'Anonymous' posters like yourself, who don't even add a byline ID to their Anonymous posting.

You may have been posting for five minutes or five years - who knows? And who knows what you post, as there is no way to identify which is your post and which is someone else's Anonymous post. That's the mark of a troll.

I don't know who TradingGuy, John or Ralph are - but at least they use an ID so you know who you are talking to.

Definition of a troll ( http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/troll# )

'A deliberately offensive or provocative online post.' Could you point out exactly what is deliberately offensive or provocative in my posting on this thread?

You may not agree with it, but then isn't that the point of having comments. If everyone agreed, would there be any point in commenting?

Ralph said...

on February 2, 2016 at 11:44 AM
Anonymous (and I wonder who, and what, you are!) said...

"It was so funny that Ralph said BI was too complicated for him to understand,...."

Would you please reference, by time and date, where such comment appears?

also:
""If time goes back into infinity, how can you ever get to the present?"
Who said "time goes back to infinity"?

also:
"It's also entertaining to read TradingGuy's, Questeruk's, John's and Ralph's stupidity."
At least you're being 'entertained'. Well,..I guess that's something to be thankful for LOL

also:
"(I'm totally aware that tricky Armstrongite trolls like TradingGuy, Questeruk, John and Ralph all want to teach us their 'Armstrongist Truths'"
I'm not too sure about the teaching bit. I simply post comments to try and explain what I believe about a particular topic. Acceptance or otherwise is totally dependent upon the reader, ie. take it or leave it.

also:
"PLEASE CALL THE "WAMBULANCE"!!"
I plead ignorance. What is a "WAMBULANCE"?

also:
"Sick people with 'British Israelism' still on their brains after it being thoroughly scientifically debunked- like Questeruk and Ralph- need psychological help."
With all due respect, if you continue to have problems in relating to other human beings I suggest you should seek serious personal counseling.

cheers
ralph.f

Anonymous said...

Ralph, God always existing (so He claims) strongly implies that time goes back into infinity.
Your "Who said "time goes back to infinity"? says you don't agree. Would you like to articulate your belief on this matter.

Anonymous said...

Hello Ralph,

You wrote, "You Anonymous (and I wonder who, and what, you are!) said...
"It was so funny that Ralph said BI was too complicated for him to understand,...."
Would you please reference, by time and date, where such comment appears?"


Sure, Ralph. It was January 30, 2016 at 5:42 AM, and your exact words were-

"Many thanks for your discourse on the "science" of DNA and chromosomes. I mentioned I am not an academic and your discourse seems to be directed to one who is. Words such as 'mitochondrial', 'recombinatory', 'clades','haplogroups' and others are beyond my immediate comprehension and need deciphering through my Merriam-Webster dictionary. I just simply do not grasp the DNA "rejection" of so called 'British-Israelism' and am content to continue with my long held belief."

Perhaps you should consider that those are your own words, before suggesting I seek serious personal counseling.

Also please, consider Byker Bob's reply, that "That site you linked to, Ralph, is what is known as an "apologetics" site, as opposed to a scientific site."

What I find particularly nutty (though somewhat expected), is your crazytalk assertion that scientists who have debunked British Israelism have done so in order to debunk "the existence of Yehovah"

Retired Prof said...

Scientists who studied DNA in populations across the world were trying to understand how our ancestors spread across the planet. Probably very few were even aware of BI. The fact that their results showed the BI theory to be wrong was a side effect, not their goal. It was up to people such as Black Ops Mikey and others with deep doubts about BI to notice the research results and apply them as added evidence that such an obviously implausible idea was in fact not consistent with reality.

Make note: It is a bad idea to proclaim you understand the motives of people you have not psychoanalyzed.

Ralph said...

on February 5, 2016 at 1:47 AM
Anonymous said...

"Ralph, God always existing (so He claims) strongly implies that time goes back into infinity.
Your "Who said "time goes back to infinity"? says you don't agree. Would you like to articulate your belief on this matter."

My simple understanding is that Yehovah created ALL things, including time. How "things" were before that is beyond my comprehension and to me it doesn't really matter. See:- "Psa 139:6 Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it."

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on February 5, 2016 at 12:12 PM
(like others have said, it would be useful if contributors would identify themselves)
Anonymous said...

"It was so funny that Ralph said BI was too complicated for him to understand,...."

What I said was " I just simply do not grasp the DNA "rejection" of so called 'British-Israelism'"

And I ask, should one accept what one doesn't understand? eg. so called DNA science? You don't understand British/Israelism!! Do you accept it??? Obviously the answer is no. That is your right. Just as it is my right to accept it regardless of what others say and/or publish.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on February 5, 2016 at 12:12 PM
Anonymous said...

"What I find particularly nutty (though somewhat expected), is your crazytalk assertion that scientists who have debunked British Israelism have done so in order to debunk "the existence of Yehovah"

Can you tell me, what percentage of so called "scientists" believe in the existence of Yehovah, our Creator?

cheers
ralph.f

Trust In Jehovah
“ For we wrestle not against flesh and blood,
but against principalities, against powers,
against the rulers of the darkness of this world,
against spiritual wickedness in high places.” [Eph:6.12]

Questeruk said...

Ralph said...

"My simple understanding is that Yehovah created ALL things, including time. How "things" were before that is beyond my comprehension and to me it doesn't really matter."

Just depends if 'time' is something God created (seeing God created all things), or if time is an attribute of God, and therefore has always existed.

Certainly in the Bible, God appears to 'live sequentially', i.e. within the framework of time, and looking on into the future, the Bible seems to indicate that will continue on into an eternity.

Ralph said...

on February 6, 2016 at 12:33
Retired Prof said...

"Scientists who studied DNA in populations across the world were trying to understand how our ancestors spread across the planet. Probably very few were even aware of BI. The fact that their results showed the BI theory to be wrong was a side effect, not their goal."

It would be interesting to know:-
1. If they were able to determine the antecedents of the B/I nations such as the USA, Britain, France, Denmark etc.
2. The original locations of such nations.

Or has that already been done?

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on February 6, 2016 at 12:33
Retired Prof said...

"Scientists who studied DNA in populations across the world were trying to understand how our ancestors spread across the planet. Probably very few were even aware of BI. The fact that their results showed the BI theory to be wrong was a side effect, not their goal."

It would be interesting to know:-
1. If they were able to determine the antecedents of the B/I nations such as the USA, Britain, France, Denmark etc.
2. The original locations of such nations.

Or has that already been done?

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on February 7, 2016 at 5:22 AM
Questeruk said..

"Just depends if 'time' is something God created (seeing God created all things), or if time is an attribute of God, and therefore has always existed."

In view of this scripture:-
"Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

I take it that this includes (invisible) time.

cheers
ralph.f

Ralph said...

on February 7, 2016 at 5:22 AM
Questeruk said..

"Just depends if 'time' is something God created (seeing God created all things), or if time is an attribute of God, and therefore has always existed."

In view of this scripture:-
"Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:"

I take it that this includes (invisible) time.

cheers
ralph.f

Retired Prof said...

Ralph,

The work of tracing the origins of populations in Europe and the British Isles is being undertaken in many projects, with many investigators involved. New findings are turning up all the time. So it will be a while before the work is done, but the rough outlines are pretty well sketched out. No single source can answer all the relevant questions. You can find many useful sources with the key words "genetic history of Europe" and "genetic history of the British Isles."


Anonymous said...

858 PM We are no longer uneducated Shepherds who cannot understand science. I believe our minds can comprehend what it means for God to have exited forever. That is, if He ever choses to reveal it to others. He is entitled to His privacy, so He may never do so. It gives Him an aura of mystery.

Anonymous said...

Well said. Questeruk is talking rubbish