Thursday, October 25, 2012

Hellbound? Lake of Fire Bound?




Michael Camp, author of Confessions of a Bible Thumper, has an entry on his Deep Thought Pub blog about an upcoming movie that has been made about the concept of hell.  For COGers that would be the "Lake of Fire."  The COG has loved to throw that phrase at anyone who disagrees with it, it's doctrines or it's ministers.  Disagree with HWA and you are damned to the lake of fire for being in rebellion.  Buy a hamburger on Saturday and you will fry in the lake.  Keep Christmas or Easter and you will be assured to go there.

In Armstrongism the threat of damnation has always been a weapon.  It holds great power over members who are live in constant fear of being separated from their God for even the slightest mistake.  Parents have used this against their children when they do something really stupid.  Flurry uses it against his present members if they dare have contact with lapsed family members who have left the Church.  On and on it goes.

The concept of hell has always been used as weapon.  The difference now, in the 21st century that it is also a marketing tool used to sell books, bibles and other things promoted to help save one's life.

Camp writes:

Miller and co-producers David Rempel and Brad Jersak just didn't lay out a case for rethinking hell but forced viewers to face the conventional dogma of eternal damnation head on. We heard straight from the mouths of conservative pastors and evangelists (from the whole spectrum--right-wing wackos from the infamous Phelps church to hip but hyper-conservative Mark Driscoll to moderate-sounding theologian Kevin DeYoung), without interuption, where the notion of hell leads. They let the doctrine speak for itself, in other words. That's when the emotional disconnect between everlasting punishment for one half to 99.99 percent of the human race (depending on who was defending it) and an unconditionally loving God hit viewers like a ton of bricks, kiln-fired to 2000-degrees Farenheit. Huh?, was the unspoken response, just as Rob Bell had asked.

But Miller and company don't leave you there. Just when you were thinking, there must be a better way, through theologians, scholars, and studied authors,* they piled on the preponderance of evidence that hell is a modern misinterpretation of religious narratives anchored in an ancient history we know little about. Gehenna, erroneously translated as "hell" in the New Testament, is a metaphor for judgment in this life, God's justice is restorative, not retributive, the term "everlasting" is mistranslated, and much of the early church embraced the idea of universal reconciliation. The overall impression the film leaves is inspiring and redemptive. Cries of heresy by convervatives are misplaced as should be a sense of superiority by Universalists. So much of this stuff is a mystery. The question boils down to, what kind of God do we think we serve?

Run, don't walk, to see this film. It's an important commentary on our religious divide. It fairly lays out a continuum of positions. It opens up a vision for the nonviolent paradigm Jesus espoused.

19 comments:

Allen C. Dexter said...

Oh, groan! What nonsense!

Fear, fear, fear and unending intimidation. The favorite tools of the con artist, religion being probably the oldest con. Our imaginative and advanced brains are also one of our greatest weaknesses.

Our little dogs aren't bothered by such nonsense because they don't have the imaginative capacity to think in such terms. They happily go through each day oblivious to their vulnerability or their mortality. Their main disappointments are not getting an expected treat or not being petted on demand.

If there is life after death, I've noticed that no NDE account ever mentions anything like hell -- either conventional or Armstongian. If ghosts are real, it's rather strange that even those of the most evil people are never seen in any hellish setting.

Just tossing out thoughts for whatever they may be worth.

Anonymous said...

What does NDE stand for?

Anonymous said...

The concept of hell and eternal punishment or punishing is pure bullshit. It is what conscious yet unconscious religious nutcases make up to threathen the unfaithful.

The Bible is NOT all that athoritative as if it knows. It's humans making up ideas to control and explain what they have no clue about.

For me, the bottom line is that humans have evolved over millions of years from austropithicenes, to homo habilis, to homo erectus to neanderthal to humans give or take few twists along the way.

We are conscious, hairless apes and that is more interesting than Bible freaks.

The Adam and Eve story is just that, a story...a myth but has not basis in reality

M.T. Cages

Anonymous said...

'Hairless apes' lacks an appreciation for the technological achievements of mankind.

Anonymous said...

In my opinion this is just the opposite side of the fear coin... fear nothing/fear everything.

The bible has much to say about fear. Those who use it to their own ends, and those who are fearful are both condemned.

Sigh...

Anonymous said...

NDE - Near Death Experience

Anonymous said...

'Hairless apes' lacks an appreciation for the technological achievements of mankind.

No it does not. Once the mind became more conscious about 3000 years ago with writing, more was possible. It is an unfolding process.

Anonymous said...

I have a lot of problems with the inconsistencies of the bible, and especially with IMHO the way that its god doesn't really behave like the creator of mankind.

But if I consider an evolutionary beginning for mankind instead, which implies all religion is bunk, then it seems like the "increase in consciousness" is something of a blessing and a curse. Yes it allows us to be more self-aware and impels us explore, discover, and innovate, but it also seems to bring a craving for meaning and purpose, which may or may not exist.

When self-aware beings who crave meaning and purpose consider their origins, if indeed they have no meaning or purpose, it can be somewhat maddening. Therefore, as history shows, they must be lied to, they must be given a false meaning and purpose, as a crutch, to ward off the maddening idea that their existence is irrelevant. Bacteria don't need to invent lies just to get through the day. They lack the self-awareness that requires it.

Frankly, I'm not satisfied with "religion" in its mindboggling array of forms (and wholesale lack of evidence), I'm not satisfied with evolution, and I can't think of any other alternatives. I'd rather be like a bacteria in this respect, and be unable to formulate the troubling questions in the first place.

Technological advances comes from somewhere else though. Other primates have many of the same abilities that we do, but their adrenaline levels are so high that they can't work together.

-Unsatisfied

Allen C. Dexter said...

Unsatisfied, I have no unsatisfied craving for meaning and purpose. As long as I exist, my purpose is to make my existence meaningful in the present and try to augment the life meaning and purpose of those who come after me. That's why I'm active in blogging, the free thought/atheist movement and politics.

Losing belief in a sky fairie god took nothing of any substance away from my fleeting life. I just enjoyed cutting up branches of the Palo Verde we inherited from the previous owner of this place and which we despised and cut down so we can replace it with something truly beautiful and shady. It's an accomplishment I've wanted to get to for months.

Does it affect the fate of the universe or impact anyone else? Not really. But, it was an accomplishment. It kept me busy and helps with my program to lose a few pounds and bring my blood pressure down without resorting to drugs.

Anonymous said...

Once the mind became more conscious about 3000 years ago with writing, more was possible. It is an unfolding process.


That's what you referred to before as "just a story", with the implication that all such stories are made-up. How is this one different?

And how about Alan's story of making something "truly beautiful?" Isn't he just making that up?

Byker Bob said...

It's all a matter of focus. What does one concentrate on more, reward, or punishment. It's a much more positive experience if one will focus on the reward. Any religion that would focus its members on the negative is not guiding them through a spiritual experience. Why not? Because decisions made under duress are totally valueless.

Imagine the following:

Bill: Hey, Jesse, you're a Christian, aren't you?

Jesse: Sure am, Bill. Any questions I can help you out with?

Bill: Yeah. Why are you a Christian?

Jesse: Because I don't want to go to hell.
-----------------------------------

Who in their right mind could respect that?? Now, if Jesse had responded that he loved God, or deeply appreciated the sacrifice Jesus had made for him, or found that Christianity provided the best possible living code known to man, most people would be more inclined to respect him.

Unfortunately, most people "called" to Armstrongism during the 1950s and 60s became involved with the church because of a double whammy hook of HWA's. They had been promised safety from the Germans, and avoidance of the Lake of Fire. The basic bogussness of fear religion is why most will turn their noses up at good works.

BB

Anonymous said...

Those seeking the truth don't fear questions only those who have something to hide do!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
Those seeking the truth don't fear questions only those who have something to hide do!

So what's your real name annon???

Anonymous said...

Once the mind became more conscious about 3000 years ago with writing, more was possible. It is an unfolding process.

Sounds similiar to the Genesis story.

With an increased consciousness, we are now conscious of God, good and evil, heaven and hell.

Allen C. Dexter said...

"So what's your real name annon???"

Good question.

I see all this anonymous stuff and wonder who the hell is this guy or gal? What are they afraid of?

If I'm going to say or write something, my identity is going to go with it. If that causes somebody to not like me, so be it. I even wrote a book you can find by running my name on Google and my address, phone number and email address are readily available to anyone who has a desire to have them.

Should anyone want to phone, email or drop by for a beer and conversation, have at it. I really don't think I'm worth anyone spending the rest of their life in prison for murdering me, so I'm not cringing in fear.

As for being denounced and avoided, I'm not desperately looking for friendly companionship either. I get plenty of friends and support in numerous other ways.

Anonymous said...

Unsatisfied said,
"When self-aware beings who crave meaning and purpose consider their origins, if indeed they have no meaning or purpose, it can be somewhat maddening. Therefore, as history shows, they must be lied to, they must be given a false meaning and purpose, as a crutch, to ward off the maddening idea that their existence is irrelevant."

I don't agree that people need to be lied to about the apparent reality of our existence to avoid madness. Just the opposite needs to happen - we need to understand that there is no externally imposed purpose or meaning, and that we do not have to live up to or by an externally imposed set of rules. People need to understand that life can have meaning based on what each of us chooses to do with our limited time here. That knowing is empowering and liberating, not a route to madness.

Glenn Parker

Anonymous said...

Some of us "anonymouses" are Church members in good standing. We don't cause problems. We sit quietly and listen.

We are able to separate Christianity from Armstronganity, so when the minister goes off on Armstronganity we just ignore it. Yes, there is a lot of Armstrong worship in the Churches, but we don't let it worry us. It's another opportunity to learn.

We understand the hurt a great many former members feel. A lot of damage has been done by imperfect humans, both ministers and members.

Rest assured, God is fully aware, and will correct it at the proper time.

Byker Bob said...

Anonymous 8:17, that's a very enlightened attitude, and I for one appreciate it.

Having been a Christian for the past five years, I've been healed of most of the past effects of Armstrongism. But, the one residual effect that seems to persist is destruction of family.
The healing that comes from the perfection of understanding that Jesus will bring to all of us is something that I really look forward to because that's what will ultimately bring families back together again as God intended. No elitist terms like Philadelphian, or condescending ones like Laodecean. No uncomfortable family get togethers because one party or the other believes that so-and-so is "deceived". Healing from the bitterness which many who were raised in Armstrongism feel regarding the type of childrearing which was practiced, and healing of the sense of loss brought on by blowing off education and financial, medical and dental issues because dates were set for "the end".

We'll also have all of the questionable histories and conspiracy theories resolved by virtue of true knowledge, rather than having them insisted upon as doctrine even though they are readily disprovable.

Based on your comment, it sounds as if you understand Paul's teachings very well, and I commend you for that!

BB

Anonymous said...

Obviously, the fact that so many families have been destroyed is because Jesus wanted them destroyed.