A UCG member brought this to my attention. Below has to be one of the most pathetic comments to come out of UCG in a while. There is so much wrong about most everything Vic Kubik said.
Its obvious their ministry is in sad shape. Older ministers are dying off or retiring and UCG has finally realized after 20 years that they should have been hiring younger ministers. Men with fresh ideas that are not stuck in pre-1986 models and who have new outlooks. The tired and worn out models of the glory days of the Worldwide Church of God are epic failures in the 21st century.
The same tired and worn out writers from the old WCG have been writing the same worn out nonsense for the last twenty years. These same worn out old men have produced epic failures in campaigns and other outdated practices from the past that have failed to bring in new members.
As usual, at the bottom of all COG lists is love and caring. Its a little too late to decide to love and care for your members when you have already lost over 60% of them to other splinter groups and continued attrition out of the church. When the law trumps Jesus every time, what more could we expect.
You will also be heartened to hear about how we are rebuilding our ministry, including the hiring of younger couples who are being trained to become the future pastors for our congregations. We are also actively training new writers for our blogs and publications. And, not the least in importance, will be our focus on loving and caring for one another, as this is the glue the bonds us one to another.
23 comments:
had they believed Christ in the first place and understood the fundamental Principle of the Law (thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself) they would never have had this major fail...
now its going to be tough to suddenly preach and practice the Gospel of Love when there has been no foundation for it laid in the past; for a while it will seem quite contrived and forced, and even corny...
If we changed your title from "UCG" to "Paul," wouldn't we have the first part of I Corinthians?
20 years?? You mean 50 or more years. I was a member for many years in the 1980s, so I know that the average church member had the heart of a bully. The bully attitude is summarized in dominate, exploit, exploit dominate. The church ministers never condemned this attitude. The church rather taught that people don't need to repent of this, and that victims should resign themselves to be dominated and exploited. The church did this be constantly teaching obey, yield, surrender, submit ie allow yourself to be dominated. And give, help, serve, be generous ie allow yourself to be exploited. This constant song is the wolf talking to the lambs. The church members loved this. They don't need to repent, just attend church services and keep some Jewish holy days and all is well. They loved and worshipped leader Armstrong for telling them this. The down side is that the church members will end up in the lake of fire, since dominating people is murder and exploitation is theft. God will not bless these 'churches. Basically no new members and no increase in income. The "You need not repent" Churches of God.
"You will also be heartened to hear about how we are rebuilding our ministry, including the hiring of younger couples who are being trained to become the future pastors for our congregations."
This is pretty funny, considering that the whole reason for the COGWA split was because Kubik's political party within UCG did not want to spend any money training new ministers, preferring instead to fund their own salaries and pensions. Richard Pinelli, who had been the one in charge of recruiting and training new ministers prior to the COGWA split was one of the ones Kubik & Co. chased out. Since the COGWA split, UCG's ministerial training program has consisted of simply ordaining someone whenever you absolutely have to. So now they're decided to get back into the training business? I am so heartened to hear this...not really...
"And, not the least in importance, will be our focus on loving and caring for one another, as this is the glue the bonds us one to another."
That's not the glue. That's never been the glue in Armstrongism. The glue is the fear that "forsaking the assembling" will be cause for their sadistic god to throw them into a freakkin' lake of fire! That's the glue. Of course, those who left for COGWA are even less lovey-dovey, being more akin to the graceless LCG.
They aren't glued together -- they're screwed together.
The Bugle Boy should be playing Taps as we watch the demise of everything Armstrong related.
More personally, I read all your posts Gary and I appreciate your dedicated service to this website very much. I get sad when I think of the sacrifices my family and I made for the Worldwide Church of God, and that my mother made to the offshoot Living Church of God headed by that idiot Rod Meredith.
It was all about the income stream from the dumb tithe slave sheep, building Colleges and keeping the ministry class in an affluent lifestyle. Offshoot United motives are no different than the parent Church. The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.
It's sad for me because I am the one of the remaining witnesses in my family to the fraud Herbert Armstrong and the Worldwide Church of God is and was. My Grandfather first started listening to Mr. Armstrong and subscribed to The Plain Truth in 1952. I attended with my family in the local Washington/Baltimore/Annapolis Worldwide Church of God congregations from 1968 to 1976. My application to Ambassador College was rejected in 1973 (thank God). I was the only member of my immediate family to leave the Church and was estranged somewhat because of it. My brother (now deceased) went on to be a local Church Elder preaching from the pulpit long after I exited.
So to see the demise of Herbert Armstrong's business/religious empire imploding from a far 50+ years later is sad to me from the perspective of what my family sacrificed for.
"In vain do they worship me!" which Herbert Armstrong loved to quote comes readily to mind.
Richard
Their logo really does need to be upgraded too. The Earth, a vibrant , colorful , living and dynamic place, as seen from outer space, is portrayed as a sterile, brown , lifeless sphere on the UCG logo. Not to be gross, but it almost looks like a little ball of Krap, or perhaps the Earth after it was irradiated.
UCG- you did good by taking down the HWA portrait in your council chambers, now go another step and create a logo that is inspiring and beautiful.
The reality is that none of the COGs have, or ever will have, the kind of ministry that is properly trained in all things theological, historical context and origins. The foundation of WCG and the now many splits, splinters and slivers is the classic "mere Bible reader" and proof texting format of fundamentalism. Looking at everything "in the light of Bible prophecy" is a huge mistake. That light is dim and often not connected to anything in events of our day no matter how it "seems".
Few if any of those who would be training younger ministers actually have a grasp of these and many other issues in the scriptures. They know nothing of the politics of various books, who actually wrote them and why, The probability that the meaning they assign books are not the actual meaning never would cross their minds. Lives are lived based on making scriptures mean what they never meant. Religious empires like those of Dave Pack, Roderick Meredith and Gerald Flurry are made up of mostly ego, delusional thinking and hot air.
They are not real and they will fail.
How badly would they suffer if they understood why Revelation was written and to whom and when? The idea of it being a terribly failed first century "prophecy" would never cross their minds because "prophecy comes alive" in its pages for them. Fear sells. No one is attracted to a cult by love and grace.
Few of them know what to do with good science done well compared to Bronze Age views of life and origins. If they do, they keep their mouths shut. The reality of evolution, human and all else eliminates some very deeply held beliefs about the origins of "sin" and what humans have to go through to live happily and eternally ever after.
Personally I don't mind being stardust in the form of a conscious hairless hominid looking back at itself in the night sky but that's another story.
All COGs are doomed to their ignorance and unwillingness to intellectually reboot and upgrade their program.
Engrave this on your "College" and ministry:
“Sit down before fact as a little child, be prepared to give up every preconceived notion, follow humbly wherever and to whatever abysses nature leads, or you shall learn nothing.” ~Thomas Henry Huxley
http://akintsugilife.com/2014/01/20/sit-down-before-fact-as-a-little-child/
Black Ops Mikey said...
They aren't glued together -- they're screwed together.
Thanks for the chuckle...
Dennis, I wasn't trying to be funny -- I was dead serious, as I am with, Don't You Want to Be Evil (as long as you're not caught at it).
Lake of Fire Church of God, NO, NO, NO! Roderick Meredith is NOT an idiot!
He is a fool.
And probably a moron (blows to the head probably did wonders during his days as regional Golden Gloves Champion). He's proud he was such a winner. But then, when your I.Q. has been reduced by physical sport, you'd think that, wouldn't you. Flies like a bat, thinks like a dodo.
Doctrines totally aside for the moment, if these new young people are contaminated by (aw, darn, I mean trained in) all of the old methodology and managerial style, then any anticipated changes are going to be greatly muted.
Radio/Worldwide Church of God was a personality cult, a cult based primarily on the personality of its founder, Herbert W. Armstrong. Back in the day, if you asked most members what God was like, the general picture painted would have been one of HWA on steroids. With such mental pictures, it is only natural that both the good and the bad traits of the founder would haunt the movement which he started for decades after his passing. The problem is that in HWA's case, his managerial style, world conditions, and the level of knowledge available to the man on the street, all of which were key to HWA's prominence, were part of the zeitgeist of his time. Plus, the lynchpin, the hook, the aspect that made his ministry different from the other prominent ones (his interpretation of prophecy), actually never came to pass. That teaching was what spawned the state of emergency situation amongst members that led them to willingly accept the virtual equivalence of martial law in their daily lives. Now, in an effort to recapture the former level of prominence or relevance, all of HWA's successors are struggling. Some have imposed greater intensity of martial law, while others seem to be embracing honey over vinegar in order to attract new flies. But, in the end, all are attempting to patch and repair something that HWA himself had always made time-related. His timeline was based on dogmatically expressed guesswork, and therefore, false. All but the severely indoctrinated can discover this through a few simple clicks of the mouse.
BB
Teenagers went to Ambassador College, were made ministers, then treated with kids cloves by church members. My experience with these 'ministers' is that they were still teenagers, even in middle age. They hid it, projecting a image of maturity, but they were mentally still in the schoolyard. That's their world view. They do not comprehend the adult world. Many times for instance, a minister would express a opinion that even a child would reject, but expect you to believe them. I would have loved to observe these 'ministers' when forced to get a real job in the adult world. Many were forced into this after the church downsizing. I would loved to see these spoilt brats put in their place... 'but, but, I was a big man minister, you must continue treating me as the Queen of Sheba.' Ha, ha, ha, ha.
UCG continues to try to re-invent itself every 5 years or so. They just re-launched their magazine, presumably to give it more brand recognition (not distance from HWA, right, despite the fact that they seem to be systematically removing HWA-related articles from their web site that I link to in my posts). Until they cut ties with Armstrongism, they will never be able to reinvent themselves.
http://asbereansdid.blogspot.com/2016/01/beyond-today-magazine-united-church-of.html
I take issue with those that say that you can't be a loving person unless you have a relationship with God. All people from the religious to the athiests have the same capacity to show love to others. We in the WCG believed because we where the chosen of God and had Gods spirit that we only had the ability to show true Godly love. That is a pile of B.S.. This is somewhat similar to what alot of mainstream Christians believe that if you don't have Jesus in your heart (whatever the heck that means) that you have no capacity to love. Again, that is nothing but a pile of B.S..
Connie, I am curious, are you certain that UCG has taken down HWA's portrait?
"...our focus on loving and caring for one another, as this is the glue the bonds us one to another."
Obviously, they have run out of glue.
drive-by-philosopher
"UCG: After 20 Some Years We Finally Realize We Should Love And Care For Each Other"
translation:"After 20+ years as being increasingly love-challenged we realize that we only need new propaganda!"
"In vain do they worship me!" which Herbert Armstrong loved to quote comes readily to mind.
translation: "By my vain they shall worship ME!" HWA
drive-by-philosopher
"Anonymous Ed said...
I take issue with those that say that you can't be a loving person unless you have a relationship with God. All people from the religious to the athiests have the same capacity to show love to others."
What's so funny is that the outsiders are way better in the skill of love!
drive-by-philosopher
Ed, that only people with Gods spirit are capable of loving others, was a big controversy during the 16th century in the Catholic church. The issue is hardly new. My observation is that atheists can be as loving as so called Christians. Also relevant, is that atheists freeload on the cultural moral atmosphere created by Christian societies. That you don't need to be a Christian to be moral, needs qualification. Today for instance, I don't see atheists condemning homosexuality.
"My observation is that atheists can be as loving as so called Christians."
Indeed. My question is, can christians be as loving as atheists?
I like how christians make up stories about people who leave saying that the reason they left was so they can now do whatever immoral things they want without feeling guilty about it.
I observe that christians who stay already do all those immoral things they accuse those who have left of wanting to do, and don't seem to feel too guilty about doing them either, because of the forgiveness of Jesus. So where is the imperative to leave the church for that? Nobody has to leave christianity to engage in "taboo" behavior. The actual behavior of bible-thumpers as a group isn't gonna be significantly different from that of unbelievers.
So why do people leave the church? It's because they've come to the realization that the religion they once believed had value, doesn't, and that continuing to attend their church is a waste of their time. But, of course, that's not an idea that those who stay will relish thinking about. It's nowhere near as satisfying as looking down their self-righteous noses in pre-judgment based upon tired old cliché accusations.
So yes, atheists can be just as moral, loving, and well-behaved as christians, and when they do, they do so for better reasons too, because it's the right, decent, and humane thing to do, not because some imaginary "or else" carrot (heaven) or stick (hell) ultimatum is held over their head. Can christians be as loving as atheists? On the surface, I suppose, but not on the inside. Doing the right thing out of fear isn't really being loving, even if it appears that way superficially.
adolf hitler, mao zedong, joseph stalin were all examples of loving, moral athiests...
its easy in our american society, with our running water, judeo-christian based laws, plentiful food stocks, relatively stable social structure, 911 access to emergency help, transportation infrastructure, etc., to pretend we are inherently loving and kind;
but let all of the afore mentioned cease and it will most certainly be proven that we are just as carnal minded and vicious as a pack of wolves or a pride of lions fighting over that last bit of carcass...
suddenly it would be all about self, and nature would trump delusion...
"adolf hitler, mao zedong, joseph stalin were all examples of loving, moral athiests..."
Fail.
First on the basis of Godwin's law.
Second, on the basis of merit, of which it has none.
Third, on the basis of being the most cliché trope ignorant theists whip out to try to hit atheists over the head with.
"but let all of the afore mentioned cease and it will most certainly be proven that we are just as carnal minded and vicious as a pack of wolves or a pride of lions fighting over that last bit of carcass...suddenly it would be all about self, and nature would trump delusion..."
Interesting that you didn't try to make a case that if and/or when secular society collapsed that christians, or COG members, would behave better than atheists. So, even given the most extreme circumstances, we agree that christians still wouldn't have any moral edge over atheists?
We both know COG members would be fighting over that last bit of carcass with the best of 'em. Especially the "ministers." Then you'd see what a christian really believes in, and it ain't religious fairy tales and imaginary friends. That's when you see christians visibly abandon every value they would have told you they cherished just the day before. Let all the aforementioned cease and watch the delusions of the religious be falsified on a grand scale, the foremost being that they're deluded into thinking they believe there's really a god either. We're all born atheists, then someone lies to us and teaches us to lie to ourselves. And we do. But if society came crashing down, so would the religious lies.
millions of people died because of these godless men and all you have to offer is what essentially amounts to cocaine babble?
and not just these men who fostered this methodology: it is well documented that the anglo saxon, in his arrogance and superiority complex, promoted eugenics in the name of so called science, not the least of which was darwin's cousin, considered the father of eugenics...
eugenics and human medical experimentation was practised in america and britain in the mid to late 19th centuries and well beyond, even unto the 1970's: cruel experimemts on black slaves, and later blacks in general (science only turned to animal experiments when the light of scrutiny was shined), e.g., in the field of gynocology or sexually transmitted diseases was conducted in the name of the science god...
the notion that atheists are somehow moral and loving is of typical human deception, and puts its proponent hypocritically on par with any one of they who claim to believe in a diety, yet ALSO commit atrocities...
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