A person would have to be blind lately to all of the issues plaguing Hollywood directors and studio heads who have molested, sexually assaulted and raped women in the industry. As the issue explodes on the news, more and more women are coming forward stating that they too had been assaulted or raped.
This is not isolated to the film industry but seems to be an issue across the board to even include the military and the Churches of God.
Church of God members are always quick to say nothing like this would ever happen in the true church, but it did and still does, even in 2017.
From Herbert Armstrong's incestuous assaults of his daughter to Garner Ted raping and bragging about illicit sex with 200 plus coeds, to ministers stalking women, peering in bathroom windows, raping women, teenage girls and small children.
Facebook is filled with stories right now by women who are XCG members and who are sharing their stories about being raped, assaulted or molested by ministers, fellow church members or family members. In many of the cases, they report that the ministry was told and did absolutely nothing, except some the person who had been molested or raped.
PCG is notorious for this. They will suspend a man for a few weeks and then let them back in or totally ignore the situation. Many of the ministers in the PCG ministry should be in prison.
United Church of God has had similar issues. One even took her stalker to court and UCG ministers and members lied under oath and tried to blame the women.
Worldwide Church of God was a cesspool of women's abuse. Some of the abusers were kicked out, others let back in, and in every single case, nothing was done for the woman assaulted. No counseling, NOTHING, other than trying to place blame on her.
Numerous Church of God ministers, elders, and church members are currently in prison for doing such things and it will not stop, unfortunately. Some in the church will say that this is the result of "broken men living in a broken world" and that we should go easy on them and let God handle it all later.
How many Church of God women need to be assaulted and raped before the church leaders do something?
53 comments:
oh boo hoo! Some of them probably deserved it the way the act.
Some faculty members at Imperial Schools also sexually assaulted students. And parents were then pressured to not say anything so as "to protect the Work."
I posted the first comment because it is typical of the posts I have been getting regarding women in the church and society in general.
Oh give me a break! We all know that rape is impossible because women can run faster with their skirts up than men can work their pants down.
It just seems to me that that kind of sex would be very unfulfilling. I liked Rick Medlocke's words in the old Blackfoot song "Don't mess with Queenie". "To own her body, you must own her soul!"
There was a lady I chased years ago, took her to nice places, bought her hundreds of dollars worth of roses. Never got past kissing, even though she kept my picture on her desk. She was an exception and an enigma who drove me crazy, and I never completely understood. Several years later, someone who had worked with her, knew her well, and knew about our friendship told me, "Oh, man, you should have gotten her drunk, and she would have slept with you!" I just shook my head, because even though I had grown up in the WCG, and had gone to Ambassador College, I would never have done that. And I'm glad. At least that is one type of past bad behavior that I don't have on my conscience.
Now, we read about all manner of famous people who made a history of deliberately drugging women or getting them drunk for the specific purpose of having sex with them.
All I can say is that without the lady's consent and willing participation, the sex would be completely meaningless. It is reduced into a demonstration of power and control, the idea that a man can take what he wants and because of who he is, he can get away with it. And what do we know about the way men in Armstrongism have been schooled to think of and treat women? If you guessed that it's all about power and control, you are correctimundo! Once again, bad doctrine, bad fruit!
BB
You will know them by their fruits. If any of the COG's where Gods true church they would not tolerate any of this horrible behavior. Additional proof that none of the COG's are Gods true church. If the true church exists at all.
You idiots that got brainwashed into that Armstrong bull shit are weak-minded and deserve any thing you get. I don't feel in the least bit sorry for any of the shit you dumb asses went through!
The original owner of the Painful Truth blog was told by the minister that medical treatment for his sick wife was unnecessary since God would heal. She died. The majority of the comments (I spent a few hours reading most of them) on his blog were blame the victim. They blamed him rather than the church or the minister.
PS, a simple medical procedure would have saved his wifes life.
So the first comment is typical.
When I saw how totally sex crazed many of the old men and women in the PCG were, I sometimes wondered if they had heard about Garner Ted Armstrong's screwing around and were jealous of him and wanted to get their share of it too.
NO2HWA said...“I posted the first comment because it is typical of the posts I have been getting regarding women in the church and society in general.”
People are not automatically pure and sweet and innocent just because they are female. Since women tend to be physically weaker than men, when women are bad they tend to operate by plenty of skillful lying. I have seen this type both in the church and in the world. Wicked women cause trouble for more than just the guys. They cause serious trouble for decent girls too. I remember one of the ugliest, wickedest, old women at one workplace causing totally unnecessary trouble for one of the youngest, prettiest, nicest girls there. It was a shocking surprise to me that stuck in my memory. I had no idea what had happened until I heard the old slut bragging about what she had done. It is not a matter of whether someone is male or female, but of whether they are good or evil. Both men and women can be either good or evil. Wicked women often skillfully use to their advantage the false perception that some men have about all women being innocent.
Some church girls despised the church guys and the church. They went to rock concerts to fornicate with the perverts there. After getting pregnant, they would return to the church with their illegitimate child and want to bother the single guys there. When women are bad, they tend to get worse and more miserable with age. Notice that in the biblical story of the flood that God sent in the days of Noah it does not say that there were extra rooms on the ark to accommodate all the worthy “single moms.”
Get down on your knees, Bubba. Ever hear of being raised in the church? As in being brainwashed as a kid, and forced to attend by your parents? And, then leaving when the prophecies originally failed? Nobody asked your sorry ass to come here, and nobody wants anybody to feel sorry for us.
BB
It has saddened me to no end the amount of women that I have known in both the COG and mainstream Protestant churches too, that have been victims of incest, rape and all manners of sexual abuse. There are tares and wolves in the midst of all religion, this is a fact.
I am reminded of a situation in a local church I attended. A male employee of the church who was extremely attractive and charismatic became embittered and decided he wanted the lifestyle of an evangelist, in fact GTA. He was already married with a family but he also wanted some concubines, and achieved this goal with several young church women. When the lid blew of the whole thing, the women were called in and interrogated. The minister doing the interrogation wanted to know all the details of 'how did he do it'. One got the feeling he wanted to be taught so he could do it himself.
It is sickening to hear COG men say that women who where sexually abused, "had it coming". There is no excuse for unwanted sexual advances! Sexual rape is similar to psychological rape in that all of us who where a part of HWA's religious system are the victims of "mind rape". We all did not asked to be psychologically raped but where coned into it by the con artist leaders of the WCG. A friend made a comment that we all made the decision to be a part of the WCG, so it is our own fault that we choose to believe that abusive theology. I told him that I strongly disagree. Yes I chose to become a member but no I didn't choose to be "mind raped", just as any women who has been truly raped didn't chose to be raped!
Can you share the FB pages? I'd like to know who the rapists are, please.
we had one of these pervs as a "minister" here in Richmond VA....He would buy the single mothers groceries as a pretense to get into their homes and then come on to them..even to the point of being a peeping Tom....makes me think of this "PennyWise" character I keep hearing about.
Well, yes, Gary. There's an element among COGlodytes who are easily persuaded by a loud argument that provides a meager helping of carefully tooled evidence. Should we be surprised that they turned around and fell under the sway of more modern loudmouths as time went on?
I guess you can say that segment is just, well... dumb.
D.W. on October 19, 2017 at 4:06 AM said...“You idiots that got brainwashed into that Armstrong bull shit are weak-minded and deserve any thing you get. I don't feel in the least bit sorry for any of the shit you dumb asses went through!”
Ouch!!!
I would not say that such people deserved it.
However, I would say that such people did get it.
With approximately 6,000 years of human history and billions of people, it seems likely that all sorts of things will have happened all across the entire spectrum, including bad guys doing bad things to good girls, and bad girls doing bad things to good guys.
Hopefully, somewhere, sometime, some good guys and good girls will have treated each other nicely.
After thinning out the sinners with the flood during Noah's lifetime, God told the survivors who came out of the ark to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. God no doubt knew very well by that time that there would be more problems with men and women not always getting along, and with people killing each other, but he told them to go live their lives and reproduce anyway. Apparently, the idea that you should not get married for fear of problems, and that you should not bring children into such an evil world, are not the way God thinks.
Actually, 9:09, statistically, humans procreate at a higher rate under adverse conditions. That seems to be the natural tendency if you look at poverty-stricken nations around the world where there are corrupt and unjust governments and horrible human rights violations, ignorance, and high crime rates. In fact, the tendency towards higher birth rates is probably written into our dna for the survival of the human race.
People complain about immigrants. Capitalism is a system which must continually grow. As prosperity and careers really took off several decades ago, the birth rate seriously plummetted here in the USA. Immigrants became necessary for the very survival and continued growth of the economy. It is no surprise that these immigrants came from countries where the conditions I outlined above are very prominent.
In addition to other factors such as governmental regulations, domestic environmental concerns, and the profit motif, the decreasing birthrate may also be one of the reasons why many of the manufacturing jobs left the country.
BB
firstly, Christ Phrophesied that there would be tares in the Church, and through the apostle Saul He also made clear the possibility that the enemy would want occasion to point the finger at the Church...
having said that: the reason we see such sexual perversion in the world in general and hence on occasion in the Church is because there are two kinds of human being: those what are led by the Holy Spirit, and those who are led by animal instincts, i.e. the carnal minded...
those who are led by the Holy Spirit have the fruits of the Spirit, and those what are animals do the works of the flesh, hence, subject to animal, i.e., carnal behavior...
4.06 AM
D W. If you are not a former member, why are you on this blog? Why comment on something that you have no first hand experience about.
Go back to your crack pipe.
"You will know them by their fruits. If any of the COG's where Gods true church they would not tolerate any of this horrible behavior. Additional proof that none of the COG's are Gods true church. If the true church exists at all."
Now that's about as stupid as anything anyone has ever said on this site. The writer assumes that there are no COG groups that won't tolerate any of this horrible behavior. How does he know? I know of COG groups that absolutely would NOT tolerate such behavior if it were to occur in their groups.
BB
It is not that humans procreate on a higher rate under adverse conditions.
Its more that humans procreate on a lower level under conditions of affluence.
Then there is the issue of birth control.
There is access to abortion. (accounting for millions of unborn)
In the past women knew how to "play the cycles". And knew about natural birth control to suckling a child for a longer period. etc etc
The pharaos wives did not seem to get 9 children though as did most in the slums of London during rapid industrialisation.
Affluence and education helps a lot.
And of course a pope that is somewhat laodicean toward modern methods of birth control.
nck
LOL! A Laodicean Pope! Thanks for the mid-morning chuckle, nck.
BB
It is important to recognize that Armstrongite churches, schools and congregations are just human organizations like all other human organizations.
The daughter of a friend of mine was going to AC/BS 25 years ago to start her freshman year. I told her Dad an anecdote about sexual activity on the AC/BS campus that I had heard in a faculty meeting. He assured me that his daughter was wise enough about the world to understand the dangers. I was happy to hear that.
But others are naive about Armstrongism. They want to believe that it is a safe haven of morality and the higher life of God's ways. These people are both naive and in jeopardy. Out there in the Armstrongite world, it is feeding time 24 hours a day. They are just people who believe and strange theology. All the relevant dangers are present as we know empirically. Any other view is pathetic denial.
People want an ideal religious community. That does not really happen. One should never capitulate ones faith to a religious community, even if you believe naively that it is God's one and only true church. Individual responsibility and relationship with God is never supplanted by communal responsibility and communal relationship with God.
Just shaking my head. Sexual abuse/assault always carries the element of power and is not simply about gratification. Hat tip to the men on here who have the brains and compassion to see this. But the ignorant who are recycling the same old self serving garbage that ignores the reality that more women than men face are either attempting to abdicate any responsibility for helping to change community norms or are denying the problem to assuage a real or fantasized insecurity about their masculinity. When you decide to really educate yourself about the reality that anyone faces who is lower on the power scale and can speak intelligently about it, then you might be worth some respect.
So name them.
"Some church girls despised the church guys and the church. They went to rock concerts to fornicate with the perverts there. After getting pregnant, they would return to the church with their illegitimate child and want to bother the single guys there."
Aside from almost sounding like an anecdote from Tipper Gore's silly book, this is interesting because you're telling us that these girls were too dumb to know about birth control, yet knew exactly where to find a hookup for sex at a public event that only lasted a couple of hours?
I remember in the Tupelo congregation of WCG some of the teenage girls was that way.
Right, RSK. It sounds like someone knew one girl in their local area that this happened with, and extrapolated it into a church-wide trend. Somebody obviously thinks that at rock concerts people go around sniffing each others butts and just doing it like a bunch of animals in heat.
BB
You know that really old rumor about the Baptist girl who only takes it in the butt so she can still call herself a virgin? I remember that story circulating around about a WCG girl. Of course, it was all a recycled cliche thrown around by a couple of loser men with limited imagination.
Now, I will say I remember one young lady in a congregation I had to attend who actually got preg and initially claimed it was the result of some guy at some event who plied her with booze and yadda yadda. Unfortunately, a few months later, her WCG boyfriend confessed that no, they just went fooling around on their own and it was his bebe. I knew of enough WCG frolics in bushes that I think my reason for being skeptical is obvious.
But hey, hows that track go? Behind the bushes, in the old man's Ford?
When my brother was at AC in Pasadena, his wife worked directly for one of the major department heads. During their 4 years there, this sterling example of an ordained minister and my brother's wife, had a daily break for a BJ.
After they left college, she finally admitted what had happened, taking the position of a victim (which she was on some levels), since he was a powerful man on campus and she was afraid it would be detrimental to her job, their being at AC and the basic BS mentality that these perverts used often to exert power through intimidation and fear.
Of course, it destroyed their marriage, but that never seemed to be seen as anything other than another excuse for the ever popular "God will take care of it" mantra that has been used so often for just about anything the ministry has ever done wrong.
That man eventually left WCG, without any repercussions and today is one of the leading ministers in UCG.
And, that story documents one of the very worst sorts of betrayal that a human can endure. Most church members rely upon mutual commitment to "God's way" as being a bulwark against the destruction of marriage by a world that does not share one's values.
I can't imagine the grief and total destruction, the foreclosure upon an individual upon coming to the realization that their partner's mouth that they had lovingly kissed, had, unbeknownst to them, also contained the genitals of another, daily, for four years. That the one to whom those genitals belonged was someone whose job and calling it was to teach, counsel, and advance the members in following what they believed was God's way, and to lead them towards the Kingdom is unfathomable.
Seriously, if you are a minister, is there any coming back from this? I'm not sure how rehabilitation would even be possible. This sort of weakness nearly begs for relapse. I've known men in the secular world whose careers have been totally ruined because they were sexual harrassers, or predators. It seems that the world deals more effectively with the evils from which a church is supposed to be a sanctuary than does the church itself.
I'd love to see that minister's name
added to some of the pages at the Painful Truth which expose ministerial abuse, like perhaps the Hall of Shame.
BB
Cmon 816, lets hear it.
No one giving a BJ everyday for four years is a victim, excuse me. Not by any standard of human statues. Detrimental to her job. Puhlease, we are not talking movie stars just managerial support.
Nck
And don't give me the, oh yes typical armstrongite blame the victim, response. Don't make my howling from laughter go into choking. This is the funniest story in Armstrongism so far. I'm starting to believe there is a God after all. 4 years everh day? My daddy was a preacher man. Hilarious I gotta meet them and hug m.
Nck
I wasn't going to elaborate, nck, but I think we all know that it doesn't normally just stop at the BJ. Crossing such lines generally just serves as a door opener, with things always going much further. The woman becomes aroused and desires reciprocation of one type or another. And then, people generally wonder what it would be like with others. Best not to start down the slippery slope if you are Christian.
BB
Well, I do have a tendency to see humor in desperate situations.
The remark about the woman sound paternalistic as if they should not be handled as equals. Ayn Rand didmt talk about reciprocation if crossing lines into a liberal lifestyle.
I agree both lifestyles don't mix very well.
I'm off to an opera in the Met now about a celtic lady being not amused that her Roman lover took upon himself a younger priestess. I'll be looking forward to the settlement of this situation, see if she releases them from their vows.
Because of this story from our religion I will rename the opera as Norma-Jean.
Nck
Axially (and probably radially, as well) "the girl" would have sounded much more paternalistic than "the woman". Besides, Ayn Rand wrote of Roarke as if he were purely a sex object in "The Fountainhead".
Enjoy your opera, nck. Hope the Celtic lady comes out on top!
BB
nck...were you just born a dick or just one who has to continually measure it against everyone else to prove your brilliance? Of all the people who post on here, you are probably the most narcissist, blow hearted, know it all who has some gall to even open your mouth so often just to continue to show how clueless you truly are.
Most of the time it's hard to figure out what your point is and even when it makes a scintilla of sense, it still comes out like you're the all knowing "expert" or broken down, as one man in the church used to describe people like you.... "ex = has been" and pert (sounding like spurt) = "a drip under pressure".
I'd even say you must have Flurry, Pack, Thiel (naked emperor) tendencies as just another who thinks they have all the answers and everyone should stop and heed when you deign to utter your wonderful brilliance.
No, the woman is not the victim, in your exacting ways since she was a willing participant, just like you're not someone with any awareness of anything besides your own BS, which leaves many to wonder (if you are a male), which head do you use for all your highbrowed insight to all things COG??
The point that writer was making, was like the "beaten wife syndrome" someone who could easily leave the hell they are a part of, rather than the heaven they might know, often feel powerless to do so. Like so many who post on here continually, who still feel the restraints of the church after many years, this women probably felt the same way with limited options.
Perhaps she could join the nck, Holy Trinity (Me, Myself and I) church, but if that was my option, the poisonous Koolaid offered as the only alternative, might be worth it....
6:30
The part where you finally get specific you are assuming (what the woman thinks).
I'm sorry, you lost and you are dumb.
Bye Bye
nck
BB,
I'm sorry we got interrupted by the ranting person. I lost my appetite for a lengthy report.
In short. Mrs Di Donato in a conversation offered the clue that her character could be 2 dimensionally viewed as being weak and suffering all the time, while for preparation she was advised to watch some Fellini flick where the character was actually strong in her devotion to devotion, both to her religion and "her man" (who wasn't her man after all).
Interesting perspective.
nck
What are some of the alternative ways in which the BJ dilemma could have played out?
1) The married lady refuses, reports the situation to her husband, and together, they report the minister/department head if somehow they can even obtain an appointment or meeting with someone who could do something about it. The victim is not believed, receives 100% of the blame, the husband and wife are disfellowshipped and lose employment and all status with the church and college. The minister's colleagues sympathize with him and reassure him that he is a man of integrity, and nothing changes for him unless there is a repeat performance sometime in the future.
2) The married lady acquiesces, but is later overcome with guilt perhaps when her husband asks, "Honey, where did you learn to do that???" She confesses. There is great anger when the husband realizes that a minister has corrupted his wife. He confronts her boss, is branded for having a bad attitude, is put out of the church and college, as is the wife, and the marriage (possibly with very young children involved) becomes a casualty.
3) The couple's silence is bought, and the minister is verbally reprimanded, but left in place soas to avoid a scandal. The husband attempts to forgive the wife and the church, but they struggle. Their lives, relationship, and relationship with the church have all been poisoned.
4) All participants ignore the situation for as long as they can, and remain silent. It festers, undealt with, causing problems for all.
The problem is that you can't "unring the bell". Once a situaltion such as this develops, the reverb or fuzz tone has been switched on, and peoples' lives will be distorted. It is unfortunately part of the human condition, and can often spill into environments where such activities are forbidden. The basic problem begins when someone involved in the process withdraws emotionally from one individual, and gradually forms an emotional attachment with someone else. Of course, when power and authority play into the situation, there is undue unfluence which comes with penalties attached if resisted.
There is also a phenomenom in which victims become predators. I wonder how many of the women whom GTA corrupted were affected in that way.
BB
I was abused by a United Church of God Elder. I reported him. The excuse I got from his superior was that "Oh he is old and likes to give hugs." A grimy hand firmly squeezing my breast is not a hug!. We were discredited and lied about and the congregation began to ostracise us. The UCG Ethics committee did absolutely nothing, except help drive us away from the church. I saw more sexual perverts in the UCG than I ever have in my community organizations. The glaring difference is that if a community person did it, they were terminated immediately, in UCG they were promoted in rank.
Got it. Norma. Ironically, there were better ethics and acts of frendship and loyalty portrayed in that opera than there ever were in Armstrongism.
BB
BB
In response to your options.
There has ALWAYS been the option of the female saying to the boss. Look what we did for the past 6 months is going to stop right here right now. It was nice and I got something out of it for as long as it lasted. Now it is going to end. And by the way I am applying for another job. Thank you and good bye.
The reason why I am using the expression always is that even in the fifties and sixties strong women like some of the leads in the musical Oklahoma somehow immediately stopped the advances of some of the producers. Likewise some women in Hollywood command immediate respect by the all powerfull. I am currently reading up on the experiences of Panam personel in the roaring sixties.
As the empathetic person that I am I do realize that mistakes are made as Christianity testifies and seeks solutions for. A lot of women are able to rectify unjust male behavior. The reason I come across as "exacting" might be that I am working from the Kurdish Peshmerga female batallion perspective. Who are called to liberate their sisters on a different level than the obligatory tweet from Hollywood. The Kurdish girls command my respect. As does a woman who takes it into her own hand to ammend a mistake after some months of abuse and end it. The Yezidi girls didn't even make a mistake. 4 years I call a relationship. (Bill Clinton was right you know about the short lived affair with his intern. Although I feel sorry for all the consequences of the mistake they both made because of both their emotional needs and history at the time.)
I also feel sympathy for other women who were "just" fumbled at as compared to the Muslim women in Bosnia. I am wondering if it would help if they reached out to the women in Bosnia, Yezidi girls or Western women trapped into trafficking, or if such involvement would just increase problems that might have been caused by their personal experiences.
I am not to judge. I'm offering a perspective from my world that goes beyond Hollywood and stretches into extreme hostile territory of the human experience.
nck
All I can say, nck, is that all of the remarks and perspectives on this thread would change drastically if it had been the husband who was working for this particular minister/department head, and if he had been coerced into administering the BJs.
BB
BB
Well, rumor has it, that asses have been kissed.
Nck
Anonymous on October 22, 2017 at 1:55 PM said...
“I was abused by a United Church of God Elder. I reported him. The excuse I got from his superior was that "Oh he is old and likes to give hugs." A grimy hand firmly squeezing my breast is not a hug!. We were discredited and lied about and the congregation began to ostracise us. The UCG Ethics committee did absolutely nothing, except help drive us away from the church. I saw more sexual perverts in the UCG than I ever have in my community organizations. The glaring difference is that if a community person did it, they were terminated immediately, in UCG they were promoted in rank.”
Unfortunately, that is the UCG style. Malicious perverts are welcome to attend UCG meetings and harass other people. In fact, some perverts skip the boring UCG meetings and just show up at the end, after it is over, to harass other people. The UCG always makes lame excuses to try to justify the obviously bad behavior of the perverts, but easily finds strange faults with their victims for not appreciating all the attention from the perverts. The perverts are kept in the UCG and their victims are chased out of the UCG. Then the UCG wonders why God does not send more people to it.
Anonymous on October 22, 2017 at 1:55 PM said...“I was abused by a United Church of God Elder. I reported him. The excuse I got from his superior was that 'Oh he is old and likes to give hugs.' A grimy hand firmly squeezing my breast is not a hug!.”
Yes it is.
Grabbing a girl by her boobs is the standard “UCG hug.” If you don't stop whining about all the “grandfatherly affection,” some UCG minister on the Council of [Evil] will have to explain that, “You are not showing any love to anyone,” and get rid of you.
You need to get with the UCG program and “hug” the old guy back by grabbing him by his balls. Don't act like an old prude. Put your heart into loving the (false) brethren and “hug” him hard.
Excellent article. I'm dealing with some of these issues as well..
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