Friday, December 8, 2017




My first encounter with a Minister from WCG was with Fred Coulter. I was 14 years old and he was the Pastor in Boise, Idaho where I first visited WCG and got hooked.  I had taken the train from Rochester, NY all the way to Boise at 14 to visit my sister and brother in law, who at the time was a forest ranger but eventually ended up at Ambassador and into the ministry.

The fateful moment in my life was to ask if I could go to church with them. 

Fred always struck me as an austere and unreasonably opinionated  and incredibly intolerant of anything but himself and his views. He wasn't even satisfied with the scriptures as sold in stores so he made up his own edition to hawk.  

True to form, Fred's "me only" and "not you" attitude has shown up in the comments section of the latest Journal.

"Better late than never.
 Congratulations on shutting down THE JOURNAL. 
It should have been done years ago." 
Fred Coulter Pastor, Christian Biblical Church of God Hollister, Calif.

Small minded , intolerant and arrogant "theologians" have always gotten under my skin evidently and still do.  In his great mind, Fred evidently feels that others views and experiences with WCG aren't worth expressing or sharing with others. He must also feel that if you aren't following him, you aren't following "CH---RIST!"


(These guys aren't Fred. These guys are like many I have known)




Going off on the brethren...


Don't interrupt me




"Uh oh...I gotta go....."

29 comments:

Anonymous said...

A very strange man indeed.
In his writing on the Passover, Fred goes on and on saying that the Bible had been edited (or he really meant, vandalized by Ezra), especially Deuteronomy 16, craving directly and indirectly the notion that he is restoring the true Passover, and by implication, he is more righteous than Ezra!

Anonymous said...

Legally the minister had no right to demand the phone be given to him or breaking it.
This is typical minister 'I have all rights and members have no rights' behavior.
Morally and legally, he should pay for the broken phone.

David Rickman said...

When I was in Worldwide, even till just very recently, I had never heard of that asshole.

Agnostic Atheist said...

If that had been my phone that guy would have been picking up his teeth off of the floor.

Anonymous said...

That's a real petty thing Fred has done. It'll hurt him more in the long run. He goes out of his way to show he's not like all the others and then BAM he goes and does this. Not so different after all.

Eddie Byrnes said...

I just wished he would've tried that with my phone

Arno said...

I still can't get over the fact most of us here were once upon a time part of this totally dysfunctional CoG-group/s ... Thank's to my rational brainy part that eventually kicked in, I fortunately got myself out many years ago from that freaky WCG one, just after HW died ... and still can't comprehend that there are still followers of that very sad group calling themselves "Whatever"-CoG. But I somehow always console myself with the fact that if I could do it, there really is hope for those still stuck.I'm rooting for ALL OF YOU still stuck 👊

Hoss said...

Breaking stuff
Reminded me of a minister who said he and his wife were on the original AC dig in Jerusalem. He said AC students had to give him any possible relics they found, and he had to decide whether items had to be catalogued or discarded. He said he would sometimes be given a shard, and he'd break it in two, and toss it, claiming it was too small to catalog.

Miller Jones said...

Ego/Vanity/Arrogance - YOU nee to hear me! What I have to say is more important than anything you have to say! God has anointed ME, NOT YOU! God has revealed this to me, and I'm his instrument to reveal it to you!

Anonymous said...

Fred Coulter said: "...Better late than never.
Congratulations on shutting down THE JOURNAL.
It should have been done years ago."
Fred Coulter Pastor, Christian Biblical Church of God Hollister, Calif..."

What will Fred and his followers think when the following is said?

"Better late than never.
Congratulations on shutting down Christian Biblical Church.
It should have been done years ago."

I don't know if Fred still thinks this, but back about 1998 Fred visited a number of us and gave a sermon where he mentioned, among other things, that as the elderly were dying they were going to their "place of safety." He made reference to Revelation 12:14

"And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent." Rev 12:14

But the dead know nothing! The place of safety wasn't a dead place, but a location to protect individuals from Satan's face. Until that time comes there must be some individuals on earth today, not in some grave, that are still "in Satan's face!" Perhaps some "relief" is coming for some...some day yet future.

I believe Jesus Christ's words for Fred's man-mad Christian Biblical group is:

Matthew 15:13 "...Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up.
:14 Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch."

Fred's attitude is something like: "You first,...........After ME!"

Time will tell...

John

DennisCDiehl said...

What is discouragingly fascinating is how those being called out are taking it without comment or feeling insulted. Any one of these things could have been handled privately if it was an issue. But a man seems more authoritarian and Godly if he corrects from the pulpit it seems. Say "Stand up big boy" to me and you're probably going to regret it. Make me the topic of a sermon blast, as GTA did to me when I was a teen, and you learn "well..that's never going to happen again without a pushback."

Ministry all too often a fake setting for pushy and weak men wanting to be tough in Jesus name because they can't be it alone. Again the first man shrugging his suit into place a few times is a kind of bluster . Fascinating but stupid in this context

Connie Schmidt said...

As was related to me, Coulter actually was cast out of his own church many years ago (ala Meredith style with Global) because of his domineering intrusive "Type A" management style. He then formed his next gig the "Christian Biblical Church of God".

Coulter apparently has a long history of promoting concepts of illuminati, NWO, Luciferian secret agents and the like, a sort of Alex Jones of the COG.

RSK said...

What?!?! But the shards are often the most important part!

Anonymous said...

The sad reality is that the ministers are often on a higher power level than the members because of member friendships within the church. So the ministers can get away with being jerks.

The new iphones and similar cost over a thousand dollars these days. One possibility for members is take the cost of the broken phone out of tithe contributions. Without telling the minister of course.

Byker Bob said...

I'm of the opinion that these tyrants don't deserve any explanation when you leave. Leave as if they were nothing! Ignoring them is the greatest possible affront. They would never consider or accept your suggestions or correction anyway. And in some cases, they respond to "rebellion" by actually becoming worse!

What makes authority figures act as they often do? They either believe they are something they are not, or they make themselves oblivious to the human dignity of others. They are often insensitive to social cues, and some are natural bully types.

In a church situation, members are voluntarily submissive, because of salvation issues, or because they believe that a particular teacher or leader is special, a standout in some way. This holds people in check who might otherwise be inclined to speak up. Abuse suffered or indignities must rise to a certain level in order for a submissive to reverse the roles and assume the dominance that all of us hold in reserve as a survival skill somewhere deep within. Even so, an unused skill is unfamiliar and can be awkward, and possibly easily turned, except in the cases where through some accident or mistake, an alpha male has been attracted to the congregation. In old school Armstrongism, most alpha male members were schooled to suppress their basic natures. The church really had a total control package in place.

Speaking of control, there were often members who were part of extensive families for whom Armstrongism was the family religion. That brought to bear a set of pressures that Lone Ranger Armstrongites could not possibly imagine. At one time, our clan had numerous family members in Radio or Worldwide. One of the psychological defenses I had learned as a reaction to my childhood in Armstrongism was compartmentalization. From my teenage years forward, I compartmentalized family. This really wasn't all that unusual or difficult, because HWA had already taught us to compartmentalize our "unconverted" relatives. More or less to render them neutral, (mentally preparing ourselves for what the "Germans" were going to do to them) and to place them off in a forgotten vault. So, when I left in 1975, the opinions and pressures from family members who remained in the church became totally irrelevant to me. They couldn't sink their claws in me, because I simply rearranged my vault. Thankfully, all but one of my five siblings eventually left. Each did so in their own way.

To my knowledge, I'm the only family member who used the compartmentalization technique, and it has worked amazingly well in producing a peaceful and successful life. But, I would recommend caution in utilizing it. It's not a silver bullet for everyone leaving. It might not have worked as well, for example, had I lived in the same geographic area as my family, or if my wife and children had had an opportunity to develop a traditional relationship with the family. If you need to employ this technique, it's best to remember that you did not cause the problem. Armstrongism caused it, forcing you to come up with a work-around. The rewards in your life for voting with your feet and leaving an oppressive and intrusive system are much greater than any penalties or guilt trips that the system or its zombies could impose. You should not feel any guilt. It's on them and their system.

BB

Gordon Feil said...

I suspect that at the root of much/most of the grievous behaviors, lamented in the articles of this blog, is a deep-seated insecurity.

Anonymous said...

What I thought was hilarious about him breaking the phone in anger, is that he was preaching on the topic of love. So much for showing love.

David Rickman said...

The video of the preacher going bat shit crazy said "there is nothing finer than young cox back in the video room". LMAO!!!

True Bread said...

To my knowledge, I'm the only family member who used the compartmentalization technique, and it has worked amazingly well in producing a peaceful and successful life. But, I would recommend caution in utilizing it. It's not a silver bullet for everyone leaving. It might not have worked as well, for example, had I lived in the same geographic area as my family, or if my wife and children had had an opportunity to develop a traditional relationship with the family. If you need to employ this technique, it's best to remember that you did not cause the problem. Armstrongism caused it, forcing you to come up with a work-around. The rewards in your life for voting with your feet and leaving an oppressive and intrusive system are much greater than any penalties or guilt trips that the system or its zombies could impose. You should not feel any guilt. It's on them and their system.

BB


This is the best comment I have ever read on Banned....sadly I am still dealing with this in my own life and family.

Gordon Feil said...

And perfect love casts out fear. Where there is insecurity there is obscurity of who God is and what he can do. We need church leaders who are secure in God's love and who realize they don't need power. If leaders would trust the good shepherd who said that nobody can take anyone from his hand or from his father's hand, they could teach instead of coercing. Less stress for all.

Anonymous said...

At the core, WCG ministers and liberals are really the same: they are extremely intolerant and repressive towards any who disagree with their world view and they censor and shout and shame people into submission rather than engage in factual discussion.

Anonymous said...

Alex Jones, despite his flaws, often reveals verifiable things that the media have hidden, which makes him actually often a better source of info than they are. That is not a complement to AJ, but an expose of the media.

DennisCDiehl said...

"God is love....Smmmmaaaaaash!! Now where was I? Oh, God is love...."

"Stand up Big Boy. You ain't worth 15 cents. You know I love you don't you?"

"Love Jesus or Burn forever in Hell" (Sign along the hwy)

I don't like this love thing! Can get ya hurt...

Anonymous said...

According to a book I just read, all economic/political systems are either freedom based or tyranny based. In a freedom based system, the participants learn that the more they know, the more they realise how little they know.
In a tyranny based system, the leaders think that they by contrast are 'know-it-alls' who have all wisdom and understanding (Job perhaps). Since these leaders come from ordinary society (rather than from heaven), their claim to superiority is obviously a lie and sham.

It's worth being on guard against being psyched out by these 'junior-god, know-it-alls.'

Ronco said...

I love the cellphone video, it is VERY obviously staged- the sermon subject is a dead giveaway together with the dramatic phone smash amongst other things. The work is worthy of an Emmy!

Awesome, as Ron Weinland would say. I'm still laughing!

Anonymous said...


3.32 PM
Alex Jones accusation proved correct that intelligence agencies secretly turn on the front camera in our smart phones and tablets. This way they know what we look like. A whistle blower confirmed this practised after Alex warned of it for years.
Which is why I tape my front camera.

Helen Wheels said...

Connies said: "Coulter apparently has a long history of promoting concepts of illuminati, NWO, Luciferian secret agents and the like, a sort of Alex Jones of the COG."

I know Coulter and this is true in general, and not only that, it's true of the CBCG membership as well.

Right now that sort of thing is becoming mainstream though, so maybe that will put a damper on it in the COG circles, who pride themselves on being contrarians.

nck said...

Helen,

I find your remark below interesting:

"Right now that sort of thing is becoming mainstream though, so maybe that will put a damper on it in the COG circles, who pride themselves on being contrarians."


This is kinda the main gist of 95% of my contributions here!
-Most of what hwa talked about is currently mainstream
-Many religious aspects
-Secular aspects
-Political/Economic circumstances

One does need a thorough understanding of what "The World of Tomorrow" fair was about though and what sponsors picked up on it. For instance one needs to reinterpret that "we are to become God". Just list Godlike "qualities" and see what AI, body skeletons, genetic engineering etc etc is capable of doing in just a few short years.

James from the Painful truth knows what I am talking about, since he is in the know on some documentaries that speak of "The World Tomorrow" fair and its purpose, although he would vehemently oppose any agreement with me in ideas, association or other. That's completely in line with my contrarian view.

I really find it an interesting phenomenon interesting how people can look at the same statistic or fact and come to different conclusions.

I like your point about pride in being contrarians. Many don't even realize it I guess.
For instance when they oppose doctors advice to take some supporting medicine for their ailment. (not that I do no respect the philosophical position that God heals, but you know what I mean.)

nck




set the captives free said...

Helen's comment, "...who pride themselves on being contrarians."

Oh Hel(en), you nailed it. Yes, I fit that description. Yes, yes I do. I have fought against any and all things that did not suit me. Even if at one time it did.

I wonder if that is a big part of the trap, the lure, of authoritarian/fundamentalist churches. I grew up in a family that was rearranged after some years and no matter who the players/members were, the rules were the same. You are not allowed to speak freely, not allowed to share your thoughts, opinions, feelings or ideas. You are NOT allowed to question anything. Rule number one being you are not allowed to question or say that the rules are wrong or unjust. i.e. sit down, shut up and do as you're told.

That began my contrarianism. The rule/s was/were unjust, unfair and just plain wrong. I was right! I had to be right. Thus began the 'pride' in being a contrarian.

So in the course of time I became aware of this church (WCG) that was 'contrarian'. Totally different than anything I had heard or experienced in 20 years. They *must* have the "truth". Some of what they teach actually lines up with what I have read (and seen for the first time) in my own bible. Wow.

They have rules to let you in. Hmm. Stop doing the things that hurt. Smoking, get married(if you're living in "sin"), get baptized, pay tithes. Ooooh, it's an exclusive club. Other churches let sinners walk right in the front door. This must be the "one true church" cause God is tough and terrible.

Yup. It was familiar. Just like what I had grown up with. Oppressive, stifling, harsh, cruel, and often tyrannical in it's operation. No questions or feelings or thoughts or doubts allowed. Talk only about the mundane, the useless, the non-edifying among yourselves and to me (the minister/elders). We (ministers/elders) are the only ones who have it right and you WILL listen and obey... you little useless contrarian.