Monday, December 11, 2017

Why Does Living Church of God Prefer Harshness Over Gentleness?

A reader here wrote:

Anon 620 "Did you notice that in Gerald Weston's December 7 update, he announces that Jonathan McNair will be moving to Charlotte to coordinate the new educational initiative?"

This made my jaw drop.

It is EXTREMELY telling of the direction in which Gerald Weston in going to take LCG. Jonathan McNair is as harsh, unloving, tyrannical, merciless, ego-centric and maniacal as his wicked little brother Rod.

Weston obviously prefers this brand of harshness to Doug Winnail's "softness". I've been waiting to see in which direction LCG would go after RCM's death.

I predict that this is the beginning of a further decline into the right ditch for LCG. I further predict that the Winnails (Doug Winnail - LCG Head of Church Admin and Scott Winnail - LU) will be "transferred" (aka demoted) from LCG headquarters.

When the Winnails fall from grace, it will be interesting to see if they wake up and make a move (likely to COGWA).

Doug and Scott are super indoctrinated but they are also intelligent (actually smart, not just in their own site like Wyatt Ceiseilka and Rod McNair who have a combined IQ of 150).

They have been making excuses to themselves for years to dismiss the wickedness they see at LCG headquarters. They tell themselves, "be patient, God will work it out in time".

When the machine turns against them, it will be interesting to see if Scott and Doug are able to maintain their cognitive dissonance!


Ed said...

I knew both Rod and Jonathan when they where much younger and lived in the Milwaukee area. They where good kids. Too bad they have decided to stay in the abusive religion of Armstrongism.

Anonymous said...

Any church that teaches that lawkeeping is a sign of having received grace will be a harsh church.

Any church that has spent 25 years under Rod Meredith's leadership will be a harsh church.

Any church led by Rod Meredith that has for 25 years taught that lawkeeping is a sign of having received grace will be a harsh church.

Mike and Doug and Scott are not just victims of this harshness. They for many years benefitted personally from their ability to enforce the harshness of their church. Now that the harshness is about land right back on top of them, they have only themselves to blame.

Dennis Diehl said...

Doug I know. Gerald I know. Gerald wins. Doug departs with a kinder gentler albeit misdirected heart

David Rickman said...

I don't think any of the ACOG leadership knows a damn thing about gentleness, kindness & compassion. Being a bunch of pricks is the only thing they know!

Gordon Feil said...

Don't good kids usually turn into good adults? Or by "good", do you mean "compliant"? There is a difference.

It's My Birthday said...

12:45 . That is a tiny bit harsh. I know of a couple of ministers who have a heart of gold and treat the flock as they are friends.

Anonymous said...

years ago i wrote to lcg regarding what i considered their lacking of a message of love in their doctrine and "coincidentally "dr. winnail subseqently wrote on the lcg page about the importance of love...

i firmly believe that lcg's failure to expand is linked directly to its lukewarmness towards substantively practising Christ's loving nature among its rank and file, and the preaching of such a Gospel to the world...

in failing to do this it has also made itself vulnerable to outside criticism and accusation, and grumblings among lay folk...

Free at last! Thank God I am free at last! said...

I left WCG when all of the changes started happening and the constant lies coming down from the WCG leadership that they were not changing doctrine. I knew all of the horror stories about Rod Meredith and some of the other men who followed him, yet I still went with him. I knew there was no way I would follow Gerald Flurry and some of the others who started groups in the early to mid 90's. I went with Meredith because I thought he had truly repented and was going to do a work that was actually God-centered. Boy was I wrong! Global and eventually Living was more legalistic than Worldwide ever thought they should be. The ministers were harsh and at times extremely vindictive. Yet, I stayed. Why, I have no idea, other than I thought this was still "God's" church preserving the truth. That was a mistake too. God has been absent in the Living Church of God for some time now. I stopped attending because of the abusive actions of Rod McNair. I will not let that man/boy talk down to me or my family ever again. My children do not and will never answer his probing and sexually specific questions. I had enough of the constant bullshit from the leadership and certainly will never subject my family to Gerald Weston's abusive tactics. We are gone and happily will never again be a aprt of Armstrongism!

Byker Bob said...

People who came into Armstrongism as a result of one of life's tragedies soon found that the R/WCG was not a very nurturing church. More like American Gothic. It's like the words to the old Hank Jr. song "Man of Steel": "Daddy died when I was three. Mama never bounced me on her knee."

Big red flag. Should have told us a lot.


Anonymous said...

All the members that I know, don't believe LCG is abusive. There must be some, or there would not be people feeling this way.

Anonymous said...

All the members that I know, don't believe LCG is abusive. There must be some, or there would not be people feeling this way.

LCG is not overly abusive until you have been abused. As long as you ask only the kinds of questions that your minister is comfortable answering, and as long as you keep up your happy-face, you can get by in LCG without overt abuse, as you will be happy with the ministers' degree of control over your life. Some people like to be controlled by what they consider to be a benevolent force in their lives.

Dennis Diehl said...

Church of God ministry live for the impossible, as if they know, and do not live in the present teal life time they actually have. Emphasis on "soon" and the not going to happen 2nd Coming is a huge psychological mistake and works against being living and compassionate to all today

Anonymous said...

"I went with Meredith because I thought he had truly repented."

My experience, over and over, is that people with a poor character never repent. It's like Saul who 'repented' of trying to kill David, but the repentance was always fleeting.

It's a catch 22. Repentance requires a certain level of character, but the character can only be acquired by repenting.

Gordon Feil said...

I agree with It's. There have been some really sincerely compassionate hearts in ACOG ministry. And Yes, there have also been scoundrels.

Gordon Feil said...

I think most of the abuse lamented within these pages is rooted in a desire for control. And that comes from the insecurity related to a lack of trust. There are ministers who simply don't know who God is and what he can do. Their actions are born of the fear that could be cast out by love. But ah.....that's the rub. From whence comes that love? Much better and less stressful to just trust the Messiah to be the Good Shepherd to the sheep. They don't need your control.

Anonymous said...

7.17 AM
And how many people are not abused because they have learnt to keep their mouths shut and pretend to agree. How many people are not abused because they and their conversations are shallow and flippant. How many people are left alone because they are the church crazies, the church snitches, or are as twisted as the ministers.

Gordon Feil said...

Yes, if your conversation is shallow, your conversion must be deep. They don't feel threatened. But originate an idea with which they don't agree, then instead of honestly examining the idea, they often just try to pressure you to disown it. We've all known guys like "they".

Anonymous said...

"Big red flag"

Well, you would know all about the red flag, right Trotsky?

nck said...


You don't know what you are talking about!

Trotsky was known for his internationalism as opposed to Stalins "communism in one country." (like HWA)
He was opposed to burocracy. (Like HWA who opposed the STP) Propagated "permanent revolution". (Like HWA)
He propagated a "vanguard party". (Like HWA's priests and kings in the world tomorrow)

etc etc

So all persons calling HWA a "Stalinists" sure belong in a group sleaking out of their behinds.
Calling BB a Trotsky. is shear ignorance on who and what Trotsky was about and also telling about the ideas about Hitler espoused y perhaps you also, that have been equally uneducated from historical, political and military perspectives.


Anonymous said...

You are ignoring fundamentals and harping on details. The following is from Ludwig Von Mises. It describes Stalin, Mao, Armstrong etc. Scratch the surface of WCG, and voila, collectivism. That is, tyranny, ownership by need (the give way) and a taboo on rights. Why Herb even had the men folk wear the equivalent of the Mao suites in the 1960s via the dark blue suits.

"The distinctive principle of Western social philosophy is individualism. It aims at the creation of a sphere in which the individual is free to think, to choose, and to act without being restrained by the interference of the social apparatus of
coercion and oppression, the State. All the spiritual and material achievements of Western civilization were the result of the operation of this idea of liberty.

If the social system which people want to have is socialism (communism, planning) there is no sphere of freedom left. All citizens are in every regard subject to orders of the government. The state is a total state; the regime is totalitarian. The government alone plans and forces everybody to behave according with this unique plan."

nck said...


Interesting perspective.
I recommend "the engineering of consent" 3 part bbc documentaries.
It even talks "the world tomorrow fair" and the difficulties western democracy faced a hundred years ago when the masses got to "exress their individuality through universal suffrage.

HWA was a marketing professional in those years of the engineering of consent as developed by Bernays commissioned by the us government.


Anonymous said...

As a former member of WCG, it is sad to see the people who are trapped in the LCG. One asks themselves why do they continue in the abusive atmosphere. The answer is easy. They believe through their own pride and vanity and works that they are the only ones who love the Father and not Jesus and it feeds a need into their psyche.These people do not know Jesus. How do I know this? Look at their fruits. Full of pride, abusive to one another, threatening the lay people with disfellowshipment ect. Until Jesus calls them to repentance from their pride and they start abiding by Christ's admonishment to love one another there is no hope. I have a close relative that is still a part of the group. I fear that when Christ returns he will say them I don't know you. How scary is that?

Anonymous said...

I was in LCG for 14 years (embarrassing, I know).

I came to believe that LCG members LIKE being lorded over. They feel they earn righteousness in their blind obedience to their ministers. They feel that suffering through ministerial abuses and standing idly by as other members are abused proves to God that they are obedient to the 'government of God'.

The brainwashing of the average LCG member is quite shocking.

Once you are out it becomes even more glaringly obvious than when you are being indoctrinated and managed through fear.

If you are fed up and have thought of leaving, I assure you that life is better out of LCG. Sure you will lose some friends but are they really your friends if they stop being friendly just because you no longer sit in the same hall on the Sabbath? I don't think so. Getting out of that toxic environment was the best thing I ever did but it takes courage.