The big boys in Charlotte have long been monitoring this blog and know full well what LCG members think of the shenanigans going on there. Yet, it is quite obvious that they do not care. Or is it that with so much negative publicity about the odious conditions in Charlotte they feel that if they made changes it would be obvious that those who have complained were right after all? Humility has never been a strong point with any of the leadership in the Church of God particularly in the more legalistic groups like LCG. What??? Acknowledging something was actually wrong and say "we are sorry" is not a concept that is a quality of the church. Never has been and will never be!
An LCG member wrote on another thread:
Anonymous said...
I've been on the verge of leaving LCG for years now because of the atmosphere in charlotte. It's toxic.
I've attended with COGWA when I travel for work because I can keep it a secret (they take attendance in charlotte at LCG so it's difficult to miss without an excuse).
I wish COGWA had a charlotte location. If they did there would probably be a mass exodus from LCG people like me who want to keep the Sabbath and the Holy Days but don't want to deal with men like Rod McNair and Gerald Weston anymore.While I think COGWA is just as corrupt as the Living Church of God is, it is a sad fact that if COGWA did open a Charlotte church, LCG members would jump ship rather quickly! Yet, the boys at LCG don't care. Status Quo needs to be maintained in order to look unified and the governmental structure secure.
26 comments:
I wish COGWA had a charlotte location.
I wonder if any LCG members wish Bob Thiel's CCOG had a Charlotte location...
I find it so ironic that when you attend LCG services in Charlotte they claim that Gerald Weston and Richard Ames are the "co-pastors" of the congregation. Everybody knows that the real pastors are the associate and assistant pastors, Rod McNair and Mike DeSimone.
Rod McNair has proved himself untrustworthy to dozens of those still attending in Charlotte. Mike DeSimone wasn't even born when a majority of the Charlotte members first attended a Sabbath service, and lost many members' confidence when he said that he considered Rod Meredith's words to be just as inspired as the words of the Bible. How ironic that LCG's most important congregation has two of its worst pastors in charge.
I can answer that one. The answer is a resounding NO! Thiel is a laughing stock in LCG anymore. He was disliked before and is now even more so!
COGWA has a congregation in Hickory, NC, just about an hour north of LCG HQ.
That may be a long drive for pampered LCG HQ staff who are used to having a church right where they work, but for the average ACOG member an hour's drive to church is nothing. Also, keep in mind that many members live north of LCG HQ, so the drive to Hickory might not be so long. COGWA in Hickory meets at 10AM at:
Market Place Church
Suite 2940
2940 NC Hwy 127 South
Hickory NC 28602
I don't know about COGWA in the states but I find that the one up here in Ontario Mississauga isn't really any better than LCG. However, I guess that is up to people to decide for themselves. They are all political to some degree or another. It is just a matter of degree. However, I suppose that can be said of all things in life (work, school, etc). I guess the only difference is that the COG groups claims your eternal salvation is at stake.
Recently, a brethren committed suicide in the LCG Toronto congregation. They are holding his memorial service almost a month and a half later (almost two months actually) at the Chinese Cultural Centre after regular Sabbath services on May 26th (4:30 onward). However, it seems like this arrangement makes it a close affair or a local congregational one as oppose to just letting anyone who know the deceased individual come to pay respect. I know many in other groups who would like to attend but I suspect that LCG would never give permission. Who knows, maybe just for show, they will let some go now that I wrote this on this blog but the last I check, I needed to ask Mike A. for permission (a local minister).
Gerald is insufferable and so, I am not surprise that some would like to stop attending North Carolina but Rod Meredith must have been bad too.....or maybe people go to sleep while he rambles on while Gerald is truly legalistic about everything (how you dress, length of hair, length of shirt, who you date, how much you give in offerings and tithes, etc).
Jeremy Lin
No, I don't think anyone wishes Thiel has a Charlotte location. The guy was already sort of off the deep end before. I think starting his own group has made it worse.
Jeremy Lin
Oh yes, I forgot to write in my last two messages but to the one who wrote that they are on the verge of leaving, do yourself a favour and leave. It will be much better off for you in the long run. I was in LCG for eight years and honestly, it is so much more free once you leave. If you must remain within the COG groups family, there are a few moderate groups that you can link up with through the internet for services if they are too far for you. However, I guarantee that nothing will go well for you if you stay in LCG. The dictatorial, legalistic and non accountability of the group along with the abuses they direct towards members is spirit/soul crushing. Even if you have a lot materially speaking, it will mean nothing in the long run to be in an evil organization such as LCG. This would be a twist on the scriptures that is found in Luke. Even if you can gain the whole world but loses your soul, what do you gain? In the same way, even if you do well in LCG, your soul/spirit is crush making life meaningless.
Jeremy
Speaking of LCG, didn't Doug and Scott Winnail also have job titles regarding the failed Living University?
What's to happen to them now that McNair is heading up the new operation?
Have they been "retired" like Germano?
I know Doug is also in church admin but wasn't LU Scott's main gig?
Just curious.
Hey Jeremy.
The fact that the ceremony is held in the chinese center suggest a cultural heritage from asia. You of all people should know that a remembering of the spirit is held weeks or even months later in the asian community.
If you like to attend anything in this world I have learned to dress apropriately. And if it is a free event, just walk in, smile, shake hands and pay respect to anyone.
I have never been banned from anything. Not even "banned".
Nck
Nck,
This isn't about dressing appropriately. I have been dressing the way the dress code of COG groups dictate for decades on end and further more, I am more traditional when it comes to attending funeral, wedding, etc. I dress the way that the funeral, wedding, etc expects me to. This has nothing to do with dress. I am not sure where that comes from.
The other point is that LCG does not accept Chinese cultural heritage as part of their religious beliefs. It being held a month and a half later isn't because of any Chinese cultural heritage or beliefs. We ARE talking about LCG and its particular beliefs. It is being held late because COG groups view suicide with a stigma and that is why it is taking so long before they decide what to do with his death. Bill isn't Chinese (and even if he was, LCG would never hold a memorial service in that matters because their beliefs conflicts) and the only reason why they are holding it there is because that is where they attend services to begin with (every Sabbath services). The Chinese Cultural Centre rent out their places to various groups, not just LCG to make money. The fact that they decided to hold it there suggest to me that it is a close affair even though many other brethren knows Bill from other COG groups and would like to attend. It was not an open invite. I only found out from a few that still has contact with me.
As far as never being banned from anything, you just have not been to the "right" kind of organizations before. LCG, PCG, RCG does ban people from their group and some even divide family members from each other. Honestly, I don't know if you were a part of these groups before. Maybe you have or are and you are in good standing but that does not apply to everyone.
Nck,
One last point. I specifically e-mailed a brethren in LCG to find out about Bill's memorial service and she told me that I should e-mail Mike (the minister) to ask if I could attend.
In the case of family members, I don't object to this. Family members can decide whether or not who they want to attend the funeral or memorial service of their love one but in this case, Bill is known in many different circle, in and outside of the COG groups. I find it most distasteful that they seem to be making this a congregational affair when others outside LCG would like to pay their respect to him.
Of course, perhaps the family of Bill decided to leave this in the hands of LCG (which I think is a mistake but so be it).
Jeremy
Repeat after me:
"It's all about the money."
"It's all about the money."
"It's all about the money."
Well, let's see. We have one member wishing to go to COGWA. That member says it's possible many would leave LCG if they have a place to go to. We have a poster from COGWA with an invite. Things spread fast. You think LCG won't care now? Y'all watch.
If they think a great amount of their DONORS split off to COGWA - well, you just watch to see what happens, and if something does begin to happen in the future. Y'all just watch. Wouldn't surprise me if LCG spies on COGWA to see if any members start going there now. They don't take complaints seriously from their members. But if they think the money's threatened? That'll get their butts in gear.
Sick.
"It's all about the money."
@2:45PM, Rod McNair has already tried to bully a COGWA minister into honoring an LCG disfellowshipping, and to talk about the disfellowshipped member -- a new COGWA attendee in good standing -- behind that member's back.
To his great credit, the COGWA minister told Rod McNair to pound sand. COGWA knows that Rod McNair's judgments are political and unspiritual, and the organization trusts its ministers to make their own determinations, not to rely on LCG's sick and twisted judgments.
"@2:45PM, Rod McNair has already tried to bully a COGWA minister into honoring an LCG disfellowshipping, "
Funny.
Last I have heard, there is not an "Inter-COG Disfellowshipment Policy" in effect between all if the COG's. Funny Rod tried to pretend there was. Seems he got told.
Course if there was an Inter-COG Disfellowshipment Policy, there would be way too much bickering and backering about who would be the one in charge to administer it, what COG's would be admissible, etc, etc..... It would be a mess.
New Booklet Title for LCG---
"CHARLOTTE'S WEB"
Hello Jeremy,
A lengthy response indeed.
The sole intent of my posting is that you should never let anyone prevent you from what you deem necessary on matters of life and death. UNLESS of course it was the last will of the deceased or major influential family members who have delegated the organisation of such event to others.
My remark about the clothes was not a personal one. It was a general remark that you should go out of your way to cause offense when people are grieving or having a wedding party.
If you were a friend of this person and major family members would not object to you paying respect (check) I see no reason why you should not attend because of misunderstandings by the organization. Again check with the family if you feel your presence contributes in honoring said person.
My remarks were just general remarks to support you in your decision wether to attend or not. It is the family who decides on matters of amount of attendees, who is presiding, open or invitees only, how much money is available for coffee or cake. Sometimes or most of the times family members don't have a clue how many friends a deceased person had or people who like to pay respect.
You do not state that this particular church made it a requirement to scan all attendees.
I am not surprised that people will try and prevent embarassing, awkward, painful behavior on a sad occasion or a wedding for that matter.
I am sure you are not a wedding crasher or something like that.
If anyone would just be there to make a "point" I would just have hoped they were asian people and had the head chopped off of someone causing embarassment.
Otherwise I'd go with the assumption that family members often don't have a clue how many people were touched by the deceased person.
Especially in the case of cancer I have seen amounts of expected attendants triple.
I wish you wisdom and a chance to express what you wish to express at the apropriate time, being at the funeral or on a earlier or later date. But don't let assumptions of any kind ever disrupt your ways.
nck
I see you like "one last points". I do too.
regarding
As far as never being banned from anything, you just have not been to the "right" kind of organizations before. LCG, PCG, RCG does ban people from their group and some even divide family members from each other. Honestly, I don't know if you were a part of these groups before. Maybe you have or are and you are in good standing but that does not apply to everyone.
I am a person known for not causing offense and ALWAYS contribute to occassions. (Even by just being present. and yes dress is a small outward part of that)
Perhaps you have seen the movie "Kingdom of heaven" , When this sarracen warior says goodbye to the crusader knight in jerusalem. He says. "Your quality will be known among your enemies before ever you meet them my friend."
I have tried to be such a person and my enemies come to me to shake my hand.
A reputation of a lifetime can be broken in a split second when ones intent is to cause strive division or in the past have shown to not care about the hurt of others in a self centered way. People should not be afraid to confront their inner demons than the demons out there don't matter.
nck
@10:24 I would disagree about the location of most LCG brethren. Most live near LCGs headquarters which is on the SE side of town. That makes Hickory a 3 hour round trip drive which means you have to leave home around 8 am to make it there by 10. That is a struggle for a family with small children. It also means that you pretty much can't have brethren over to fellowship Friday night because you have to go to bed early so you can wake up early.
I know that in the old days people walked 5 miles, up hill, in both directions to get to school and drove 4 hours each way to get to church but it doesn't work for me.
nck,
I get where you are coming from.
I have no intention to disrupt the event. I don't do stuff like that, certainly not in a memorial service. However, LCG is often known for "guilty until proven innocent." They are not very open to people they consider to have different beliefs than they do. I challenge them before on how controlling they were of the brethren's lives among other issues and that did not go well with them. However, you do raise valid points.
Perhaps, I will go anyway and see how things go. The purpose is to honour the dead and if they want to make it an issue, I guess that is on them.
I try not to cause offense in life and try to contribute positively. The only thing is at what point does one draw the line between being charitable/righteous (for a lack of a better word) and accountability? There are occasion to stand up for things even if it means ruffling a few feathers and yes, even then, one has to do it the right way. I get that. In any case, I have no intention to disrupt the memorial service. I just don't believe that they have the authority to screen people, especially since this brethren has reached out many times to people within the organization and none helped him.
Anyway, thanks for the discussion,
Jeremy
If members left LCG to go to COGWA I don't think LCG would care. I remember Rod Meredith saying, time and time again, that he was happy to show people the door if they were in anyway dissatisfied with Living.
I always remember thinking, "well that's certainly not a Christian attitude".
But alas, I am just a lowly member.
Now that Jerry Weston, Rod McNair and Jon McNair are ruling the counsel of elders (therefore the entire church) we can expect LCG to plunge further down the spiral of harsh, over-reaching, legalism. None of the other COE members have the courage to stand up to these men. They are all "yes-men" who want to keep their paychecks no matter how horrible it gets in Charlotte.
Dave Pack and Flurry need to watch out! LCG is headed their direction with a quickness.
Looks like an anon from COGWA posted the address and meeting time for Sabbath services in one of the comments above.
So I guess COGWA has an open door policy, unlike LCG and PCG who keep their locations and times secret until you've been properly vetted by one of their ministers. You know... just like Jesus did back in the day. Not.
Heads up people: if your church doesn't have an open door policy you are probably in a cult.
LCGs counsel of elders (but not wiser) is meeting right now.
Twenty bucks says they talk about Banned.
For years I have heard speculation of an LCG/ COGWA merge.
They way things are headed, maybe we should look forward to an LCG/ PCG merge. They certainly seem more aligned.
Well COGWA will be having a church in Charlotte. The first Sabbath service will be in June. don't know where but it is being talked about on the Blogs. So all in LCG will be welcome. :)
I am so sick of the hypocrisy and racism in LCG. Time to upgrade folks. Make sure you upgrade your loyalty to our Lord Jesus Christ--don't ever put your faith and trust in a man--and be ready.
The Body of Christ is spiritual. In the end, it's going to be just you and Jesus.
Our spiritual walk is so much bigger than which club you're a part of. Go where you can grow, don't stay comfortable.
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