Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
The letter says that the "Gospel must be given FREE".
However the devil is alway in the details! It would cost much less to EVERYONE if you simply just put a nominal charge on the material in the first place, rather than demanding that someone must tithe!
HWA knew from his sales experience that by giving someone something "free", it psychologically programs the receiver of the gratis product the willingness and desire to want to reciprocate and give back.
It is an old technique of creating an obligation and a desire to compensate and be equivalent.
I wonder if the day will ever come when energy won't be given to going over and over the writings, machinations, mistaken views, terrible theology, antics and the current residual bacteria feeding on the corpse of long dead men who got precious little right about how life works and one's part in it?
Easy to do I suppose until one stops to think just how this serves one now in the life one actually have left?
"Time will tell" or not depending on whether, when we run out of it, there is any conscious awareness of the event or the forevermore after. How long does one let the Church of God experience haunt their them before rebooting into the present life one actually has?
As long as I have material, and am able to go over these things, I will share it, critique it, and examine it. There are still many (not a lot, but many) who are trapped and do not understand what they were or are in, and do not know the extent of the scam they have been a part of for so many years. No, I will never know how many lives that this kind of work will help, or not. That's not for me to know. But I refuse to simply sit and let Armstrong Apologists deny the evidence of the truth of what happened for so long. The way Armstrong brainwashed in the AC correspondence courses is in plain view, and I will write about that soon enough.
So if I am going "over and over the writings" and you think I haven't "rebooted into the present" - well, you're entitled to your opinion. I do this partly for my own therapy and to figure things out until I am satisfied, but I also do this so I can help, and if one is helped, this time is worth it. Because of a combination of circumstances beyond my control, I have the ability to look into Armstrongism like not many have the time to do, and that is what I will do.
While it's true that your money is where your heart is, God loves a cheerful giver, and a minister is worthy of his hire, mandatory tithing is definitely out. While not going into the false premises of this ubiquitous doctrine, I once believed every word of the Correspondence Course lesson. When my mother, an ardent Protestant tither, came across this lesson while snooping through my stuff, got very upset with me over the instance that you must only tithe to them.
The old WCG material is good stuff to refer to (expose). It shows how much Flurry and others have drifted from what HWA taught even though they claim to follow him to the letter. Also, the blatant "extortion" is more clear in Herbs earlier writings when he was less sophisticated: pay or die! Later he became a bit more subtle.
"How long does one let the Church of God experience haunt their them before rebooting into the present life one actually has?"
You work on both at the same time. Rebooting into a new life, and getting over the past are done simultaneously. It's a transition period. Reboot now, don't wait till you are fully over the past.
I understand completely SHT. I wrote my heart out on all sorts of topics to process my own experience and teach myself what I should have been taught about many things had I gone to the right sources in my youth. I get it... I speak only for myself and yes, it is a process and sometimes I progress in my own fits and starts. I am just further ahead personally now than I have ever been and for me , this is progress and good for my mental, emotional and physical health.
I'm not much of an expert in the bible. Old testament may command a tithe and that tithe is God's but could someone direct me anywhere in the bible where God's money can be used for expensive wine, fine art, big mansion houses and luxurious travel such as personal jets and limos?
Scenes we’d like to see: Dave Pack ripping one of his “evangelists” a new one, when suddenly Jesus arrives on the scene with towels over shoulder and a pan of hot water to wash the evangelist’s feet, thus setting an example for Dave as to what love really is. Thing is, Dave would probably mistake Jesus for some strange hippie, and attempt to have him thrown out.
And, it wouldn’t have to be Dave. There are plenty of ACOG examples! It could be any other cruel cretin like Cal Culpepper, or Rod McNair.
I would be willing to bet my wife's SSI check that not a single one of the ACOGs knows anything about history or science. Compare the bible to our 21's century high-tech society and that book falls to pieces.
When you tithe or give any amount of money to a church you are not giving to God but to human beings. Churches are nothing more then human institutions that require a lot of money for payment of staff and to keep-up the building ect. Putting people on guilt trips to get them to fork-over much of their hard earned money is rather slimmy! Telling them that their reward will be less or that their salvation will be in danger if they don't tithe is abuse. God doesn't need money. He owns the universe. He can make the stones shout-out the gospel if needed.
This blog has been VITAL to my restoration of mental health. It has given and continues to give evidence of what really happened. I've spent decades questioning my decision to leave. My mother and sister remain fierce Armstrongites and have no love at all for me since I left. This blog and my therapist finally have me feeling somewhat normal and comfortable in the real world. The evidence of the truth behind the deception and the motives for reckless behavior and unchecked greed is something I count on as I make my way from darkness into light. Thanks for what you do. Thanks for preserving and presenting the real history for those like me who were forced to grow up in a world that came from the demented vision of Herb Armstrong. I will be forever grateful.
Connie wrote that we are to freely give the Gospel. The passage is from Matthew 10:5-8 New International Version (NIV) 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give. Context is important. He is speaking to the twelve. He tells them not to go to the Gentiles. Later, in Matt 28 it says that they are to go into all the world . . . . Also, can the word "freely" mean something other than "without monetary price"? Freely can mean "generously."
In that TV series Star Trek Voyager, the Borg represented a abusive cult. I thought some of the episodes accurately depicted their plight. For instance, their members were panicked and lost if cut off from their 'collective.' The character Seven-of-nine represented a former Borg's transition towards independence, like someone who leaves a cult. She over relied on logic since she could not trust her emotions. She had been robbed of a sense of normalcy. Another thing they got right in the series is that they could not surgically remove all of Seven-of-nines implants, the implants representing cult brainwashing. In other words, one can never completely 'get over the past.' Former members have been given a life sentence. That's the ugly reality.
An in depth study of the last book of the OT reveals that this was directed to the priests and not the average Israelite. Most churches that insist on tithing and quoting from this book, hope that their membership will not read the entire book and they don't.
Sweetblood, where do you get the idea that II Chronicles was directed to the priests and not the average Israelite? Or have you forgotten that it, not Malachi, is the last book in the actual inspired order of the Bible? Ironically, it was the Catholic priesthood that came up with its own order of books and put Malachi incorrectly at the end of the OT.
Robert Cialdini is an expert on persuasion and has several books. His latest is Presuasion which is about how people setup an atmosphere that leads to persuasion. Understanding how people persuade you is an important defense . If you have the money, I recommend buying his books. If money is tight, check your library, it should have them. The upfront free gift is one of the best working methods to make sales- it creates a subconscious feeling of obligation.
Blogger Connie Schmidt said... The letter says that the "Gospel must be given FREE".
However the devil is alway in the details! It would cost much less to EVERYONE if you simply just put a nominal charge on the material in the first place, rather than demanding that someone must tithe!
HWA knew from his sales experience that by giving someone something "free", it psychologically programs the receiver of the gratis product the willingness and desire to want to reciprocate and give back.
It is an old technique of creating an obligation and a desire to compensate and be equivalent.
That might have worked back in the day, but according to Dave Pack of the RCG, it is not working today to the extent he would like it.
He has frustratingly chided the present generation as expecting everything for free and giving nothing in return. He spoke of the WCG model that no matter how much they gave away free, they always got back more in return. This generation of "gospel" receivers according to Dave Pack takes of his "hard copy" material and only a tenth of them are responding back with money. So the RCG tries to steer those interested in their material to their websites where Mr. Pack won't lose as much of his campus improvement money.
The WCG model of one dynamic man building Solomon type small cities and expecting a profit from the gospel message is far from the biblical model of Jesus Christ and the disciples and others who were sent with the gospel message. These men went out with nothing physical and any extra funds that they received were given to the poor.
When will these men be seen for what for what they are doing? The building of Solomon like kingdoms for themselves while enforcing a first covenant administration of law upon their members who live no where near the land flowing with milk and honey.
The kingdom is already here for many of these leaders as can be seen in their frustration with "response per telecast" or "monetary response per book sent" as these constitute lost money for sustaining and advancing their kingdoms.
The Holy Spirit can't be bought and the true gospel can't be bought and assuredly eternal life can't be bought. But the COG model is that it is all available for money. Is there any of the COG leaders who will admit that just one of these gifts from God can be obtained for free let alone all three?
I remember the old courses, but was too lazy to take more than the first few. The idea of handwriting your answers and then sending in tests was too much like bad homework - as a schoolkid - did not need more of the same. What appealed to me most at the time was the resurrection to a life of action instead of playing a harp and doing nothing. May sound strange today, but I was a typical smart alec teenager. You get smart early, then wise later.
I still remember the member letter that referred to Hwa calling all who didn't donate as the same as the dried up excrement that was clogging up his dear wife's colon.WTF?
The people in our local church areas treated the correspondence course as if it were some sort of oracle! Writing out the Bible verses in beautiful penmanship and color-coding with different colors of ink, keeping their finished product in relatively expensive binders, making sure that they carefully glued the cloth reinforcements to each 3 ring hole! We were amazed when we saw some of this stuff!
I started my first correspondence course lesson at age 15 or 16. I had to look up the word "annihilation" and what it meant. It was used a lot in that first lesson. Then I began reading the book of Revelation, and taking everything literal visually, I had nightmares for a week. I quit reading both at that time. But...that was the beginning of the cult brainwashing for me. I started attending services at age 14, committed myself at age 15 (1968), was baptized at age 18. I went with the GCI group in '95 (even though it was still called WCG), left my then husband in 2001 (who went the other way), moved to Big Sandy, then to Missouri, and finally leaving the GCI group in 2006 for good. I learned a lot in Big Sandy, good things, but I will not belong to any corporate group or church. I know I gave a lot of info about myself but, oh well. I'm 65 now. Wasted too many years of my life being a slave to men. No longer.
25 comments:
The letter says that the "Gospel must be given FREE".
However the devil is alway in the details! It would cost much less to EVERYONE if you simply just put a nominal charge on the material in the first place, rather than demanding that someone must tithe!
HWA knew from his sales experience that by giving someone something "free", it psychologically programs the receiver of the gratis product the willingness and desire to want to reciprocate and give back.
It is an old technique of creating an obligation and a desire to compensate and be equivalent.
I wonder if the day will ever come when energy won't be given to going over and over the writings, machinations, mistaken views, terrible theology, antics and the current residual bacteria feeding on the corpse of long dead men who got precious little right about how life works and one's part in it?
Easy to do I suppose until one stops to think just how this serves one now in the life one actually have left?
"Time will tell" or not depending on whether, when we run out of it, there is any conscious awareness of the event or the forevermore after. How long does one let the Church of God experience haunt their them before rebooting into the present life one actually has?
As long as I have material, and am able to go over these things, I will share it, critique it, and examine it. There are still many (not a lot, but many) who are trapped and do not understand what they were or are in, and do not know the extent of the scam they have been a part of for so many years. No, I will never know how many lives that this kind of work will help, or not. That's not for me to know. But I refuse to simply sit and let Armstrong Apologists deny the evidence of the truth of what happened for so long. The way Armstrong brainwashed in the AC correspondence courses is in plain view, and I will write about that soon enough.
So if I am going "over and over the writings" and you think I haven't "rebooted into the present" - well, you're entitled to your opinion. I do this partly for my own therapy and to figure things out until I am satisfied, but I also do this so I can help, and if one is helped, this time is worth it. Because of a combination of circumstances beyond my control, I have the ability to look into Armstrongism like not many have the time to do, and that is what I will do.
While it's true that your money is where your heart is, God loves a cheerful giver, and a minister is worthy of his hire, mandatory tithing is definitely out. While not going into the false premises of this ubiquitous doctrine, I once believed every word of the Correspondence Course lesson. When my mother, an ardent Protestant tither, came across this lesson while snooping through my stuff, got very upset with me over the instance that you must only tithe to them.
The old WCG material is good stuff to refer to (expose). It shows how much Flurry and others have drifted from what HWA taught even though they claim to follow him to the letter. Also, the blatant "extortion" is more clear in Herbs earlier writings when he was less sophisticated: pay or die! Later he became a bit more subtle.
Yeah, members never had access to the pastor generals report. Time to expose what was written in it.
"How long does one let the Church of God experience haunt their them before rebooting into the present life one actually has?"
You work on both at the same time. Rebooting into a new life, and getting over the past are done simultaneously. It's a transition period. Reboot now, don't wait till you are fully over the past.
I understand completely SHT. I wrote my heart out on all sorts of topics to process my own experience and teach myself what I should have been taught about many things had I gone to the right sources in my youth. I get it... I speak only for myself and yes, it is a process and sometimes I progress in my own fits and starts. I am just further ahead personally now than I have ever been and for me , this is progress and good for my mental, emotional and physical health.
Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. George Santayana (16 December 1863 in Madrid, Spain – 26 September 1952 in Rome, Italy
I'm not much of an expert in the bible. Old testament may command a tithe and that tithe is God's but could someone direct me anywhere in the bible where God's money can be used for expensive wine, fine art, big mansion houses and luxurious travel such as personal jets and limos?
Scenes we’d like to see: Dave Pack ripping one of his “evangelists” a new one, when suddenly Jesus arrives on the scene with towels over shoulder and a pan of hot water to wash the evangelist’s feet, thus setting an example for Dave as to what love really is. Thing is, Dave would probably mistake Jesus for some strange hippie, and attempt to have him thrown out.
And, it wouldn’t have to be Dave. There are plenty of ACOG examples! It could be any other cruel cretin like Cal Culpepper, or Rod McNair.
LOL!
BB
I would be willing to bet my wife's SSI check that not a single one of the ACOGs knows anything about history or science. Compare the bible to our 21's century high-tech society and that book falls to pieces.
When you tithe or give any amount of money to a church you are not giving to God but to human beings. Churches are nothing more then human institutions that require a lot of money for payment of staff and to keep-up the building ect. Putting people on guilt trips to get them to fork-over much of their hard earned money is rather slimmy! Telling them that their reward will be less or that their salvation will be in danger if they don't tithe is abuse. God doesn't need money. He owns the universe. He can make the stones shout-out the gospel if needed.
This blog has been VITAL to my restoration of mental health.
It has given and continues to give evidence of what really happened.
I've spent decades questioning my decision to leave. My mother and sister remain fierce Armstrongites and have no love at all for me since I left.
This blog and my therapist finally have me feeling somewhat normal and comfortable in the real world. The evidence of the truth behind the deception and the motives for reckless behavior and unchecked greed is something I count on as I make my way from darkness into light.
Thanks for what you do.
Thanks for preserving and presenting the real history for those like me who were forced to grow up in a world that came from the demented vision of Herb Armstrong.
I will be forever grateful.
Connie wrote that we are to freely give the Gospel.
The passage is from Matthew 10:5-8 New International Version (NIV)
5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. 6 Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel. 7 As you go, proclaim this message: ‘The kingdom of heaven has come near.’ 8 Heal the sick, raise the dead, cleanse those who have leprosy,[a] drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
Context is important. He is speaking to the twelve. He tells them not to go to the Gentiles.
Later, in Matt 28 it says that they are to go into all the world . . . . Also, can the word "freely" mean something other than "without monetary price"? Freely can mean "generously."
In that TV series Star Trek Voyager, the Borg represented a abusive cult. I thought some of the episodes accurately depicted their plight. For instance, their members were panicked and lost if cut off from their 'collective.' The character Seven-of-nine represented a former Borg's transition towards independence, like someone who leaves a cult. She over relied on logic since she could not trust her emotions. She had been robbed of a sense of normalcy. Another thing they got right in the series is that they could not surgically remove all of Seven-of-nines implants, the implants representing cult brainwashing. In other words, one can never completely 'get over the past.' Former members have been given a life sentence. That's the ugly reality.
An in depth study of the last book of the OT reveals that this was directed to the priests and not the average Israelite. Most churches that insist on tithing and quoting from this book, hope that their membership will not read the entire book and they don't.
Sweetblood, where do you get the idea that II Chronicles was directed to the priests and not the average Israelite? Or have you forgotten that it, not Malachi, is the last book in the actual inspired order of the Bible? Ironically, it was the Catholic priesthood that came up with its own order of books and put Malachi incorrectly at the end of the OT.
Robert Cialdini is an expert on persuasion and has several books. His latest is Presuasion which is about how people setup an atmosphere that leads to persuasion. Understanding how people persuade you is an important defense . If you have the money, I recommend buying his books. If money is tight, check your library, it should have them.
The upfront free gift is one of the best working methods to make sales- it creates a subconscious feeling of obligation.
Blogger Connie Schmidt said...
The letter says that the "Gospel must be given FREE".
However the devil is alway in the details! It would cost much less to EVERYONE if you simply just put a nominal charge on the material in the first place, rather than demanding that someone must tithe!
HWA knew from his sales experience that by giving someone something "free", it psychologically programs the receiver of the gratis product the willingness and desire to want to reciprocate and give back.
It is an old technique of creating an obligation and a desire to compensate and be equivalent.
That might have worked back in the day, but according to Dave Pack of the RCG, it is not working today to the extent he would like it.
He has frustratingly chided the present generation as expecting everything for free and giving nothing in return. He spoke of the WCG model that no matter how much they gave away free, they always got back more in return. This generation of "gospel" receivers according to Dave Pack takes of his "hard copy" material and only a tenth of them are responding back with money. So the RCG tries to steer those interested in their material to their websites where Mr. Pack won't lose as much of his campus improvement money.
The WCG model of one dynamic man building Solomon type small cities and expecting a profit from the gospel message is far from the biblical model of Jesus Christ and the disciples and others who were sent with the gospel message. These men went out with nothing physical and any extra funds that they received were given to the poor.
When will these men be seen for what for what they are doing? The building of Solomon like kingdoms for themselves while enforcing a first covenant administration of law upon their members who live no where near the land flowing with milk and honey.
The kingdom is already here for many of these leaders as can be seen in their frustration with "response per telecast" or "monetary response per book sent" as these constitute lost money for sustaining and advancing their kingdoms.
The Holy Spirit can't be bought and the true gospel can't be bought and assuredly eternal life can't be bought. But the COG model is that it is all available for money. Is there any of the COG leaders who will admit that just one of these gifts from God can be obtained for free let alone all three?
I remember the old courses, but was too lazy to take more than the first few. The idea of handwriting your answers and then sending in tests was too much like bad homework - as a schoolkid - did not need more of the same.
What appealed to me most at the time was the resurrection to a life of action instead of playing a harp and doing nothing.
May sound strange today, but I was a typical smart alec teenager. You get smart early, then wise later.
I still remember the member letter that referred to Hwa calling all who didn't donate as the same as the dried up excrement that was clogging up his dear wife's colon.WTF?
The people in our local church areas treated the correspondence course as if it were some sort of oracle! Writing out the Bible verses in beautiful penmanship and color-coding with different colors of ink, keeping their finished product in relatively expensive binders, making sure that they carefully glued the cloth reinforcements to each 3 ring hole! We were amazed when we saw some of this stuff!
BB
I started my first correspondence course lesson at age 15 or 16. I had to look up the word "annihilation" and what it meant. It was used a lot in that first lesson. Then I began reading the book of Revelation, and taking everything literal visually, I had nightmares for a week. I quit reading both at that time. But...that was the beginning of the cult brainwashing for me. I started attending services at age 14, committed myself at age 15 (1968), was baptized at age 18. I went with the GCI group in '95 (even though it was still called WCG), left my then husband in 2001 (who went the other way), moved to Big Sandy, then to Missouri, and finally leaving the GCI group in 2006 for good. I learned a lot in Big Sandy, good things, but I will not belong to any corporate group or church. I know I gave a lot of info about myself but, oh well. I'm 65 now. Wasted too many years of my life being a slave to men. No longer.
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