UCG's Mark Welch writes:
The recent 2020 congregational survey certainly indicated that many of you have had the very same emphasis in God’s Church for many years.
In response to the following statement, “I understand the fundamental truths of the Bible,” 99% of respondents “Agreed” or “Strongly Agreed.” As you may have already concluded, this was the highest percentage of agreement on the survey and could not have been much higher!
I am a bit surprised that the response was that high, but I suppose it is because the vast percentage of those who responded to the survey have been longtime members. We do put a great deal of emphasis on knowing and understanding our fundamental beliefs.
I was even a bit more surprised that 94% of respondents “Agreed” or “Strongly Agreed” with the statement, “I can explain the fundamental truths of the Bible.” I think it is wonderful that we have confidence that we are able to explain these fundamental beliefs, as the scripture says: “But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts, and always be ready to give a defense to everyone who asks you a reason for the hope that is in you, with meekness and fear; having a good conscience, that when they defame you as evildoers, those who revile your good conduct in Christ may be ashamed” (1 Peter 3:15-16).
Of course, how well one is able to explain our fundamental beliefs is important.
Sadly, one of the conclusions drawn from the survey is that most are confident in their ability to explain their beliefs, but few take the opportunity to do so.
It seems that many of us are reticent to engage in explaining our beliefs to others. It is not difficult to understand why that may be the case. I’m confident that many of us have attempted to do so, but we quickly realized that the person engaging us was not really interested in hearing why we believe what we believe. Instead, we found that they wanted to show us where we were wrong and not genuinely interested in considering the truth of the Bible. They already believed they knew the truth of the Bible. Moreover, before long the nice, casual conversation had become a heated, argumentative debate.
Because of one or two experiences like the one above, we may have concluded that it is best not to engage in a biblical conversation with anyone who isn’t already in God’s Church. But where is the balance? Granted, many people are more interested in debating their own beliefs and are not really open-minded to the real truth of the Bible.
One of the comments on the survey from one of our members indicated that they had a similar experience.
“We recently went through a series of Bible studies on the fundamental beliefs, which was very helpful. I do sometimes have trouble explaining to people outside the church what the Bible really teaches. This is especially true when the person I’m talking to is so dedicated to her own beliefs that she won’t believe me no matter how much scripture I can cite.”
Undoubtedly, many people fall into this category. Nevertheless, there are people out there genuinely interested in learning more about what the Bible says. And it is a very big world with billions of people!It is not only the UCG members who feel uncomfortable sharing their faith but is common across the board in the Churches of God. For being the one and only true church, most are not eager to share that with others.
13 comments:
Reading UCG “study paper” The Passover of Exodus 12 — Approved by the Council of Elders in 1999, here’s a great pothole:
The first mention of the name or term Passover in Scripture is found in Exodus 12:11. Instructions in the previous verses describe the killing, roasting, eating and disposing of the lamb. This lamb “without blemish” is defined as “the LORD’s Passover.” (Pg 2).
And this meaning for Passover, this “lamb without blemish” contradicts directly what the writer wrote at the end, the Death Angel’s “passing over”:
What does the term Passover mean? The word Passover is clearly associated with “passing over” the homes of the Israelites. If the Passover has to do with the timing of God passing over the homes of the Israelites while slaying the firstborn of the Egyptians and if the Passover is on the 14th day, then this activity had to be after the beginning of the 14th and not on the 15th. (Pg 45).
Taken from a wider study/critique:
https://wulfstein.wordpress.com/2020/03/18/a-critique-of-ucgs-passover-i-2/
How did you get hold of this infomation ?
I imagine that if someone did not accept without question, what the member was telling them or if they expressed an opposing view, they were classified as not wanting to hear the truth. If you don't accept their views or refute them, you are not engaged in an intelligent discussion but rather you are closed minded, not wanting to hear what the Bible says. The very idea that perhaps their own minds have been closed is not a possibility. And, if you ask questions while you are a member of the LCG, you weren't a Berean, a thoughtful individual, you simply had a "bad attitude." I can still hear this crap from RCM in first year Bible. RCM was into boxing as a youth. It takes a certain type of courage to be involved in martial arts. But, intellectually, he was not brave at all. He wouldn't allow for an open conversation. He would interrupt, dominate the conversation, then cut it off. Why didn't they go out and evangelize others? They would only speak from their safe, sheltered campus with their passive audience listening with great respect for God's leaders. Imagine RCM in a real debate with a strong moderator in control. He's look pretty pathetic and have to eat a huge piece of humble pie.
Even Stanley Rader got slammed by Mike Wallace. When SR shut down the interview he was shocked and humiliated. Call in the spin doctors.
In the NT, when the church was new and small, personal evangelising might have had some merit, but today Christianity is an established religion.
Telling others your religious beliefs works against you. Many will view and treat you as a easy mark, plus it can arouse murderous envy if they learn of the church's theology.
It's a right to hide ones beliefs.
Increasingly, COG beliefs are "politically incorrect" in the work place , or socially. Even mainstream fundamentalist Christian beliefs are as well.
People are being targeted, marginalized, demoted or fired, for being against same sex marriage, or for being "politically incorrect".
Socially, to discuss religion, or to push it, is considered rude, or unacceptable as well.
COG beliefs like BI, not keeping Xmas, one and only true church, and more, are viewed as very exclusionary by society. Add to this the horrific history of the COG, with financial abuses, cultic behavior, power abuses, off beat ideas and more, which are easily found online , and it is easy to see why people are very careful about sharing their faith or beliefs.
I personally do not keep Xmas, and am a sabbath keeper, believe in sexual relations only within marriage, but I am very aware
that our beliefs are increasingly strange and weird to society, and even threatening. I also am not willing to make excuses for,
or justify any of the Armstrongist heritage churches, history or problems. Thankfully, the COG 7th Day, has been a much more enlightened history and progression.
When I was in the WCG, personal evangelism was discouraged if not prohibited. We weren't even supposed to answer questions posed by visitors attending services.
On one feast day, a minister told us we shouldn't be afraid of telling people what church we attended (but that was about all). When I left the building, a lady asked me what church it was (it was a weekday, I don't how she knew it was a church) and I mumbled "Worldwide Church of God". When she asked again, I blurted, "WORLDWIDE CHURCH OF GOD". Just a coincidence, but other members thought that encounter was "special".
It sounds like those old apostate “ministers” like Victor Kubik are utterly unable to grow their UCG retirement cult. All the UCG has ever done is split and splinter.
And, from the beginning, the godless bums that the UCG newly-credentialed as “ministers” have been nothing but evil.
Now, the (false) hope seems to be that the godless UCG members and attendees might be able to talk in some new suckers, but who would listen to such bad characters?
Most COG members burned out and wore out their warm market contacts decades ago. Members were discouraged from being in any kind of social club, or community based out fit like the Kiwanis, or Lyons etc., didn't play ball in public sports leagues, and were in basic social isolation.
It is indeed true that members were not encouraged to evangelize, but to rather just direct people to the radio, or TV broadcasts or if more serious , to the ministry.
It's a dying church, no strength, no spirit . . .
. . . .just waiting for its demise
In Church we feel an electrical impulse . The Power of Jesus is upon Jon Brisby . He is the Only Righteous on earth. Come and seek your true brothers
Anon, June 16, 2020 at 7:22 PM, wrote:
"Reading UCG “study paper” The Passover of Exodus 12 — Approved by the Council of Elders in 1999, here’s a great pothole:
The first mention of the name or term Passover in Scripture is found in Exodus 12:11. Instructions in the previous verses describe the killing, roasting, eating and disposing of the lamb. This lamb “without blemish” is defined as “the LORD’s Passover.” (Pg 2).
And this meaning for Passover, this “lamb without blemish” contradicts directly what the writer wrote at the end, the Death Angel’s “passing over”:
What does the term Passover mean? The word Passover is clearly associated with “passing over” the homes of the Israelites. If the Passover has to do with the timing of God passing over the homes of the Israelites while slaying the firstborn of the Egyptians and if the Passover is on the 14th day, then this activity had to be after the beginning of the 14th and not on the 15th. (Pg 45).
Taken from a wider study/critique:
https://wulfstein.wordpress.com/2020/03/18/a-critique-of-ucgs-passover-i-2/ "
******
Anon, regarding some “great pothole” comment about some flaw, you specifically wrote this: "...And this meaning for Passover, this “lamb without blemish” contradicts directly what the writer wrote at the end, the Death Angel’s “passing over”:.."
The United Ass. teaches huge amounts of the "milk of the word," lots of "Junk Food," and very little "strong meat," spiritually-speaking for all if their existence since 1995. United has done survey after survey and split after split has become of United’s fruits/works. Now, I am not much of a supporter for United, but I looked at their "study paper" on The Passover of Exodus 12 and nowhere is there any mention of any “Death Angel.” I do agree with United that God’s Passover applies to the 14th Abib, and not some 15th, and that is part of the “milk of the word.”
Mark Welch mentioned: “…Sadly, one of the conclusions drawn from the survey is that most are confident in their ability to explain their beliefs, but few take the opportunity to do so…”
Why are United’s members confident in their ability to explain their beliefs? That “beats me,” b/c how can anyone be confident about explaining that so-called Beast Chart (lots of speculation & full of flaws), explaining some 3rd resurrection (when the Bible clearly only shows two), explaining Christ’s 2nd Coming (while overlooking the 2nd time Christ returned to earth for 40 days after His resurrection and visit to His Father in 3rd Heaven), explaining how war will be learned no more at the beginning of the MMM with some Jesus reigning on earth (when Satan exits the pit after 1,000 years, takes over Jerusalem, and earth’s inhabitants are again at war), etc.
When having a conversation, citing scriptures from the Bible, with United members, a typical United response would be like: “I don’t want to hear it,” or “Don’t tell me anything,” or “You followed the false prophet,” etc. as though the United member already “knew all there was to know on every belief/subject, and what they learned from Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong just cannot be false.”
Oh, really, but there are “many antichrists!” The United Ass. (like so many xcogs) and their hirelings were not "planted" by God and will, with time, continue to wind down, split and shrink.
Time will tell…
John
Liam wrote, Most COG members burned out ...
I'd say Most COG Ministers burned out....
Thanks for your comments, John,
It’s true that the words “Death Angels” didn’t appear in Exodus 12. Actually the exact phase is the “LORD’s will pass over” v23, but then God usually does things through His angels and because in this occasion there were so many deaths, hence many people use “Death Angles.” Regardless, it doesn’t alter the meaning.
It’s also true most (99.9 percent or more) with a WCG tradition subscribes to an early fourteenth Passover. The term fifteenth Passover should be a late fourteenth Passover. However, the Targum says in Exodus 12:8 “And you shall eat the flesh on that night, the fifteenth of Nisan . . .” indicating obviously that the Passover was a late fourteenth and the eating was on the fifteenth.
Perhaps you might like to study Fred Coulter’s Passover, and I can go alone with you here:
https://wulfstein.wordpress.com/2020/06/11/a-study-of-fred-coulters-the-christian-passover/
It’s also true that UCG is falling apart. In my area many are avoiding the designated minister whenever he’s around by forming their own Bible Study groups.
JH
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