The comments below by Greg Albrecht on Satan and evil will certainly set off one doubly blessed prophet of god into a naturopathic fit of self-righteous frenzy. I can't wait! š
QUESTION:
Some time ago you gave a sermon and talked about Satan, and asked how “real” is he and how “symbolic” is he. I think he is real, and I have many Scriptures that support my conclusion. Of course, I know that there are many references in the Bible which are true but not literally so. Can you elaborate?
ANSWER:
Some brief thoughts, perhaps if I enumerate them they might be a bit more logical!
- The question of the devil, and how “literal” biblical references to his existence are, and how symbolic, is an ongoing discussion – has been for many centuries.
- Excuse the double negative: I do not believe that the devil/Satan does not exist. I believe that would be an uncalled for (biblically speaking) conclusion. I have no idea how real and literal Satan is, and that fact does not bother me because my believe in the reality of God, who is Father, Son and Holy Spirit completely transcends any worries I might have about Satan.
In COGland, Satan is the most powerful entity on earth today. Far more powerful than Jesus who is sitting in some faraway place pouring over all the details of COGleaders who have determined when he is to return. Satan is constantly on the prowl for the minds of COG members and apparently, according to most COG leaders, he is quite successful in leading church members astray - not the ministry of course, but the members.
- I also believe that it is possible to have an unhealthy interest in the things that constitute evil and darkness. Thus, I suggest the more literal one tends to take Satan and his demons, and how much power one attributes to them, the “weaker” and more “vulnerable” one’s faith is. This is the spirit of 1 John 4:4 –“… the one who is in you [Jesus] is greater than the one who is in the world [Satan].” Trust God, focus on him, know that he alone is on the throne of the universe. That we know. That we believe. There is our faith.
The emphasis on Satan in the COG is unhealthy and has led to mental health issues with members who think they are under his control. Every single week Satan is brought up in a sermon and members are warned to be on guard for his wiley ways. Jesus is seldom discussed, but Satan certainly dominates the airwaves in the COG.
- Whatever and whomever the devil and his henchmen are, and whatever they may do (Paul calls him “the prince of the power of the air”) the Bible clearly teaches they are limited in their scope of influence. At times a fallen spirit world (whatever such a spiritual dimension is, and I do not pretend to know specifically and doubt anyone who dogmatically claims they know) they often have power and influence in someone’s life because an individual allows and gives them such powers.
In COGland, Satan controls everything is craftily planning on how to get COG leaders kicked off the airwaves so their messages can't be preached. Since no COG leader has ever had a real theological education (and this particularly means Bob Thiel) and spent time examining the subject of Satan in church history and fictional accounts that have entered the church belief system, they are totally oblivious to the many traditions and false understandings that infect COG leaders today.
- The greater question regarding how Satan may or may not literally exist, and the biblical passages that speak of him (or is “he” a “she” – just kidding, but the question is fair given the tone of our politically correct world today) is the matter of evil. There is no doubt whatsoever that evil exists, that it thrives and that it causes enormous grief and heartache. Satan may be in some way responsible for much of the evil we see in the world, and in some ways he may stand for and symbolize evil in some biblical references. But evil does exist without him. Humans cannot blame Satan for all the evil in this world and specifically, the evil to which they contribute. The totality of evil in our world is greater than the sum of its parts. Evil is the greater enemy I believe, and thus it deserves more of our attention.
Evil is only discussed COGland when it can be connected to Satan and never is much discussed on how humans contribute to it all by themselves. Just look at the evil that transpired when numerous COG leaders took it upon themselves to set up COG splinter groups, diverting money into their pockets and separating families from loved ones. Did Satan cause that or just vile evil men who were consumed with their own greatness and lusts for power?
- Christ-centered, biblical faith does not offer any perfect solution to the problem of evil and why it exists (called a theodicy). In brief, 1) God is all powerful. 2) God is good. 3) Appalling evil happens, all the time. Why? How do we reconcile those three statements? Some propose that we blame the devil, and when we are particularly involved in evil, conclude “the devil made me do it.” This is overly simplistic and does not fit within the love, mercy and grace of God. Do we propose that evil exists because of a mutual attack on goodness by our inherently evil human nature and by Satan and his demonic world? Some do – again, I don’t think the Bible speaks authoritatively on this topic. But of course 1) God is all powerful 2) God is good and 3) Appalling evil happens, all the time. These three truths are not perfectly resolved, to our satisfaction, by the love, mercy and grace of God either. We are left with the problem of evil, where it comes from, how it happens, who is responsible and what can be done about it.
- Whether we take all biblical references to Satan being “literal” and “real” or not is a bit of a snipe hunt, I believe. For example, one can say that people put on too much weight because they eat hamburgers and fries, while another person may say that people put on too much weight because they eat too much pasta and drink too much alcohol. While there are folks who say they know dogmatic answers to weight gain, retention and loss (and they stand ready to sell you their book of course!) the issue is a bit more complex than some of the simplistic solutions offered. What can we say and know, and where should be place our attention? In my opinion, Christ centered faith offers no intellectual solution to the problem of evil, or of Satan…. or for that matter, many other topics, including weight gain and loss. But here’s the ultimate solution, here’s where our focus must be — the Cross of Christ stands forever as absolute testimony to the fact that there is no evil so vile and reprehensible that God cannot transform it to his goodness and grace, and that ultimately, he will. Christ-followers have, by God’s grace, a cruciform faith, not a fearful of the devil faith.THE DEVIL AND THE PROBLEM OF EVIL – GREG ALBRECHT
32 comments:
UCG believes that Satan is a spirit being who is the adversary of God and the children of God; Satan has been given dominion over the world for a specific time; Satan has deceived humanity into rejecting God and His law; Satan has ruled by deception with the aid of a host of demons who are rebellious angels, spirit beings who followed Satan in his rebellion (Matthew 4:1-11; Luke 8:12; 2 Timothy 2:26; John 12:31; 16:11; Revelation 12:4, 9; 20:1-3, 7, 10; Leviticus 16:21-22; 2 Corinthians 4:4; 11:14; Ephesians 2:2).
It is crazy enough having an imaginary friend ( God) even worse having an imaginary enemy (Satan)
Not really. Did your catch that the Ever Given blockage of the Suez Canal coincided with the feast of unleavened bread? There is a historic pattern of a major world event just prior to unleavened bread and the feast of Tabernacles. They distract from these feasts. In my state, a murder/rape of a reporter was headline news just prior to Tabernacles. Demons do exist.
This is who the bible says creates evil:
Isaiah 45:7
King James Version
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."
Did your catch that the Ever Given blockage of the Suez Canal coincided with the feast of unleavened bread?
Unleavened Bread this year ran from March 28 - April 3.
The Ever Given blockage ran from March 23 - March 29.
To say that the two events "coincided" is to misuse the word badly.
I agree largely with what Albrecht says here. Still, it is appalling to me that some of these wcg ministers who taught and guided thousands of 18-22 year olds at Ambassador and at camps and other events are not more seemingly repentant and looking for ways to help due to the false indoctrination. Instead, I suspect those like Albrecht had their social group and friends who also didn't believe the system they were supporting and just went on their merry way in the mid 90s little troubled by the damage they created, because now they had their new tribe.
12:39 I know right? Just before the Feast last year, I had a flat tire AND burned myself grilling steaks on Trumpets. I thought, "Boy! You can sure tell it is Feast time! Satan is annnngryyyy!"
Just not much room in fundamentalist religion for moderates who present a balanced, varied approach to touchy subjects. Moderation is often considered to be weakness or indecision. The world according to many COG folks is black & white, extreme positions and emphatic statements are too often assumed to be signs of correctness. After all, even a little 'leaven' (pride, sin, softness, lack of strong faith) infects the whole lump! I don't believe in the boogy-man or the devil but kudos to Greg for steering folks away from living in fear.
One time it rained cool clean water all day during the Day of Atonement. I remember thinking, "Satan, you sly dog. How utterly cruel you roaring lion you!"
Lets all be honest here. Questions about how the spirit world works and functions are several pay grades above where we are at in our current state. We can only guess and speculate about such matters, even on a Good Day.
It "seems" that we have enough on our plates already in this life, to simply have faith, acknowledge and strive to be in harmony with the 10 Commandments, be thankful to God for all things, and to do good unto others.
I agree with Greg's take of Satan and evil. The church has always placed too much emphasis on Satan and not enough on Jesus.
Judaism says this about Satan:
Judaism does not view “Satan” with the same connotation as other religions.
Satan in Judaism is not a physical being ruling the underworld, rather, in the Torah, the word Satan indicates “accuser,” “hinderer” or “tempter.” Satan is therefore more an illusory obstacle in one’s way - such as temptation and evil doings - keeping one from completing the responsibilities of tikkun olam (fixing the world). Satan is the evil inclination to veer off the path of righteousness and faithfulness in God.
Throughout the Torah, Satan challenges God to test the true loyalty of his followers, including Adam and Eve, as well as Abraham. However, Satan remains inferior to God and is incapable of taking action on mortals without God’s permission. In the Talmud and Midrash, Satan appears as the force in the world, responsible for all sins. Some Midrashim claim that the sounding of the Shofar on Rosh Hashanah is utilized to keep Satan away as Jews begin to atone for their sins. Even the morning after Yom Kippur, many Jews attend services to guarantee Satan does not make one last effort to instigate Jews to commit sins.
'Several pay grades above where we are at' that's ministry lingo Tonto.
Since you believe that the Ever Given incident didn't distract from the Pass over and the feast of unleavened bread, you obviously didn't observe these days. You did no de leavening leading up to the feast.
You sir, are an uninformed armchair critic.
It's been 5 years?? Ghastly. I woke up Pentecost morning, June 12, 2016, turned on CNN and saw the news that 50 people were killed at a gay club in Florida. Fifty? On Pentecost? The number was intriguing, to say the least. Is Satan, who is real, going to be put away on Pentecost - Rev 20:1-3 ?? I know: that timing is not according to Herbert's "holy day" plan.
Satan appears in the Bible, was discussed by the rabbis of the Talmud and is explored in detail in Jewish mysticism, or Kabbalah. In Hebrew, the term Satan is usually translated as “opponent” or “adversary,” and he is often understood to represent the sinful impulse (in Hebrew, yetzer hara) or, more generally, the forces that prevents human beings from submitting to divine will. He is also sometimes regarded as a heavenly prosecutor or accuser, a view given expression in the Book of Job, where Satan encourages God to test his servant.
The Adversary is licensed to operate by God. God is sovereign. This is why a good theodicy is so difficult to formulate.
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Tonto always brings sound commentary. Tonto & Byker Bob are top notch and I appreciate your efforts.
You can't distract people from things that they aren't aware of in the first place.
The Suez Canal event coincided with . . . . Correlation does not mean causation. A basic rule of critical thinking. If you look to find a cause and effect relationship, you will find it. There were some good things happening on the day the ship got stuck, too. But, if you are looking for evidence to support your bias, you will find it easily enough.
As for God causing evil, do a little research on the subject. God made evil possible, (free will, etc.) but man made it actual.
Since you believe that the Ever Given incident didn't distract from the Pass over and the feast of unleavened bread, you obviously didn't observe these days. You did no de leavening leading up to the feast.
You sir, are an uninformed armchair critic.
Someone taking in the leaven of mainstream media news to the degree it became distracting certainly wasn't deleavened for the DULB.
Humans are always investigating above their pay grades. Which is why eg, the progress in astronomy and understanding in sub atomic physics. You can live contented in your tee pee Tonto, but others are building atom smashers, and going boldly where no man has gone before. Did you know that people possessed by demons have spoken fluent latin, even though their victims never studied latin? It comes out that they call us monkeys because they are much more intelligent than humans.
While correlation does not mean causation, it's also true that patterns do not lie. The "you shall shall know them by their fruit (ie, plural)" thingy. If you back test the stock market just prior to Passover and Tabernacles, there's a discernable abnormality in price movements. Look for patterns Luke, and may the force be with you.
Observing how society unravels when people forsake God's way is part of every Christians education. And not all online news outlets are part of the MSM. I've found that some Asian outlets are very balanced in their reporting.
Greg Albrecht switched from true Christianity to fraudulent Christianity that teaches that the law has been abolished and that sinful garbage will destroy our society and perverts the true message that Jesus brought the kingdom of God, so don't listen to the GCI and all the allies of Satan.
Anonymous of May 12, 2021 at 12:39 AM - your COG-reasoning is a fascinating study in mass delusions.
Murder/rapes happen around most days of every year - yet you find a feast connection when one happens in your state.
Throughout history, plenty of catastrophes have happened around or on Christmas - yet those you do not attribute to demons trying to distract us from the joys of the season.
You could produce a very lucrative book if you spent the time plotting out the dates of disasters occurring over the past century and show the proximately of these dates to feast dates.
Of course, the truth would show that disasters are randomly disbursed throughout the days of the year - but all the COG members would see the signs and pay COG-homage to Satan.
For the record, I believe in a literal Satan who tries to exert influence over individuals and the world at large.
However, I also believe in the Sovereign God who will restore all things.
The sixth king was Mussolini. (Mr. Armstrong mentioned this is his sermon that I aired on the live stream this past Sabbath). Mussolini reigned from the fall of 1935 to the Spring of 1945 (until 28-Apr-1945).WAS Mussolini. (Mr. Armstrong mentioned this is his sermon that I aired on the live stream this past Sabbath). Mussolini reigned from the fall of 1935 to the Spring of 1945 (until 28-Apr-1945). So this proves Satan and the beast are real.
Christ-centered faith offers no perfect solution to the problem of evil because worshiping a man is idolatry, so we should try to follow the example of Christ, but not worship the man of Christ.
HWA preached that WW2 was the great tribulation and that Christ was going to return at the end of that war. HWA made over a 100 wacko false predictions.
Fuel shortages due to the attack on the colonial pipeline just prior to Pentacost. What a coincidence?
Demonic activity. Told you so, told you so.
That's hilarious 10:12 Stretch much? Satan had nothing to do with it because Pentecost is this Sunday. It is Pentecost throughout Christiandom this Sunday. It is no a COG thing.
It is no a COG thing.
Well not with you that's for sure.
mortisrigori, May 12, 2021 at 5:55 AM, said:
"...This is who the bible says creates evil:
Isaiah 45:7Open in Logos Bible Software (if available)
King James Version
"I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things."..."
AND NEO, May 12, 2021 at 12:32 PM, said:
"...The Adversary is licensed to operate by God. God is sovereign. This is why a good theodicy is so difficult to formulate..."
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And along with those interesting informative comments there is this:
I Samuel 16:14 "But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him."
The evil became apparent to Saul's servants:
:15 "And Saul’s servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee."
Those servants noticed the change in Saul's attitude and mannerisms; they saw fruits, good and evil, evident in Saul's life.
This sovereign LORD must have His purposes, but that evil spirit somehow accomplishes evil thing in Saul's life, such as:
I Samuel 19:9 "And the evil spirit from the LORD was upon Saul, as he sat in his house with his javelin in his hand: and David played with [his] hand."
:10 "And Saul sought to smite David even to the wall with the javelin; but he slipped away out of Saul’s presence, and he smote the javelin into the wall: and David fled, and escaped that night."
Within the lives of human beings God's Spirit accomplishes something, and evil spirits accomplish things in the lives of humans. In this situation David almost became like a "shishkabob."
For the USA, and perhaps the world, during Trump's four years in office blessings seem to have been more abundant than they are today. And during Biden's days in office curses seem to have been increasingly abundant as has been increasing racism along with some critical race theory education.
We're told: "For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]." Ephesians 6:12
And some Satan?
"He that committeth sin is of the devil;..." I John 3:8
"And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will." 2 Tim 2:26
If Jesus walked the earth today, He might address religious leaders, including former WCG hirelings (e.g. Kubik, Franks, Weston, Winnail, Flurry, Weinland, Coulter, Thiel, etc.), especially those who emphasize law, qualifying, self-righteousness/works/earning salvation rather than grace etc., in the following manner:
John 8:43 "Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word.
44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not."
These hirelings, like the Pharisees, prefer to blame/judge others, so the hirelings will continue to remain in a blind state, and stagnant in growing in grace and knowledge of Jesus, and of His Father, the real God of the Old Testament.
King David wasn't always a "man after God's own heart," and we have the record of when David was, and when David wasn't: the good fruits and the evil fruits within his life are contained in that same record.
Do evil principalities, these rulers of darkness, really exist, and might they be impacting the lives of human beings (James 4:5; I John 3:12, etc.) worldwide today?
Time will tell...
John
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