The 302
"Ok, so what? It's still on the tracks mostly."
Impressions of Sermon 302 (I don't believe it can be posted but I did take the time to listen as agonizing as it was)
Dave Pack is currently on sermon 302 continuing to show how easy and simple it now is to see where "they" didn't understand but now "he" does, the details of when Jesus will return. Currently it is this coming Fall for many reasons that Dave pulls out of his....mind.
Dave notes that it was five years ago that he actually dreamed he would be giving 302 or 303 sermons on this. I'm sure he noted that to subconsciously tell himself and the congregation this is normal and was actually shown to him to be the path to truth from God. Shades of Bob Thiel.
Clearly Dave is running out of material and is focused on rambling around in the NT scriptures making them clearly mean whatever he needs them to mean. And I do mean rambling. From Joseph of Arimathea to the nuances of Greek words that prove it really means this and not that, the sermon is a mess. I could not imagine sitting through it in real time without wanting to simply leave and find better things to do. But that's just me.
Dave sounds more like he is trying to convince himself than others. In one particular reference to 2 Peter , he mumbles , almost to himself, his way through the "in the last days there will be scoffers.. saying "where is the promise of his calling" to get on to a verse past that he liked. He either didn't mean to run into that verse or it irritates him because, of course, scoffing is all he deserves at this point. He seems to do a lot of talking to himself at times. My sense is that down deep, his confidence is waning and he is asking himself, "where is the promise of his coming...?"
His use of NT scriptures on how soon the NT portrays Jesus return in those days and to whom it was actually written is tortuous and scripture mining and proof texting in the "now lets go over here, now lets over here" in classic WCG mix and match style when they don't actually. Dave sees obvious connections to his ridiculous views where there are none and never could be. But we knew that.
So, the Good News for RCG is that "the math is absolutely correct" (I have stated in the past that real sermons should not have math in them) and his Jesus is coming in the Fall of '21. I suspect it "absolutely has to be Trumpets..." , "We missed it but now I clearly see it's Atonement", and "How could we miss it? It's so simple and now I see it. Last Great Day! That's because, brethren, it's a "Great Day! It's so clear!"
However, fudge factor is in place as he does note several times and with several NT examples we all know that we wait no matter when as others did. God doesn't count or see time as we do. And things have to go longer than supposed so there can be scoffers. I would remind us that it's scoffers to the mistaken ones and observations to those who notice Jesus has not returned as advertised.
I prophesy that in the end and when it is time to pass on, and it will come, Dave will say "I have fought a good fight. I have kept the faith. Therefore there is laid up for ME, a Crown of Righteousness.... I can't speak for YOU!"
The views expressed are mine. Others may have found themselves gyrating in their seats 1 hour and 50 minutes later...
25 comments:
When is he going to a padded cell?
Where can we get a copy of the sermon? If possible..
Others may have found themselves gyrating in their seats 1 hour and 50 minutes later...
They gyrate because the restrooms are locked while Dave is pontificating!
A comment about the "last great day", of John 7:37: it's Tishri 21, except for those who despise the Jewish Calendar. The next day was a sabbath - John 8:1 - 9:14. Tishri 23 is never a sabbath, so the sabbath was Tishri 22 and the day before, the last great day, was Tishri 21 (this may be inconceivable to some ministers/false profits, uh, prophets).
Gary might know more how to get a copy of the sermon witwortel. I have it and you can email me and I can try to forward it to you if you wish. DennisCDiehl@aol.com I get it anonymously as do a number of folk. You have to keep renewing it about every ten minutes with the email.
DennisCDiehl@aol.com
Sorry to say I am no techno geek.
Herbert W. Armstrong had speculated that when Jesus Christ returns it might very well be on the actual Day of Trumpets in whatever year He comes. This was in accordance with HWA's understanding that the Annual Holy Days in the Bible picture God's plan of salvation. Jesus was crucified on Passover. The Holy Spirit came on Pentecost. The return of Jesus Christ was pictured by the Day of Trumpets.
David C. Pack, on the other hand, keeps on cycling his own date guesses for the return of Jesus Christ throughout the year, year after year, to string along his listeners without any long breaks in between. Everyone in the Restored Cult seems to have forgotten what was taught in the past by HWA. David Pack's series of chronic lying has turned their brains into mush.
"the math is absolutely correct"
(Dennis, I don't know if you are quoting an actual spoken phrase above or if this is a creative trope you added. I will assume it is a quote.)
The math is irrelevant so it can't be "correct" in any meaningful sense. Victor Houteff did the math, too, and these calculations instigated, through his widow, a redux of the 19th century Great Disappointment on April 22, 1959.
Time cycles, holy days, comets, meteors, numerology of all sorts - none of this is remotely in the zone with scripture. Use of this kind of arithmetic is an authoritative sounding artifice used to stir people up - like the drums at a football pep rally.
Peter stated while standing on Solomon's Portico:
"Repent therefore, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah appointed for you, that is, Jesus, who must remain in heaven until the time of universal restoration that God announced long ago through his holy prophets." (Acts 3:19-21, NRSV)
Stated simplistically, the appropriate repentance is the condition for the Parousia. If anyone alternatively presents computations intended to identify the moment of the Parousia, it should include an appendix explaining why the words of God communicated clearly through Peter above must be renounced.
******* Click on my icon for Disclaimer
There would not be so many scoffers asking “Where is the promise of His coming?” if there had not been false prophets like Dave Pack continually promising and always guessing wrong, and continuing to guess wrong again and again rather than ever admitting that he simply does not know.
Pack lies as much as Bob Thiel and Gerald Flurry lie. Why does the church have so few ethical/moral men in leadership positions?
Which are Dave Packs' comments and Dennis Diehl's.? Some editing is really needed here.
Fibonacci numbers work the best for timing. If one adds the Fibonacci number 233 to the year of the declaration of independence, one comes up with 2008, the year that Obama The Destroyer was elected. Meaning, 2008 represents the fulfillment of God's promise to Abraham of national greatness. If one works backwards from 2008 using Fibonacci numbers, one finds historical significant events. I read an secular article on this. Also adding Fibonacci numbers to 2008 could give important dates.
Anonymous Anonymous said...
Which are Dave Packs' comments and Dennis Diehl's.? Some editing is really needed here.
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There are no direct quotes from Dave in the text. This is just a personal impression of my own after listening to Dave's sermon 302. There are a couple of phrases spoken as quotes because most here would understand they are Dave's well known excuses for failure in prophecy or how he will justify it. I suppose a way to differentiate my thoughts from his.
The quote "the math is absolutely correct" has been spoken by Dave in the past and is one of his classics, again, most have heard before and would not need Dave to be referenced as having said it.
The second one in the paragraph is also Dave's typically past ways of kicking the can down the road so is only meant as in the style of Dave's way of doing that. So the quote is in the style of Dave that most would know well.
Sorry if it confuses the reading. I tend to write as if in conversation with others.
Because thé corrupt culture of the ACOG's doesn't encourage ethical, moral men to stay in leadership positions. Those who do stay learn you can't be a guppy in an ocean of sharks.
Anon, June 2, 2021 at 8:59 PM, said:
"Pack lies as much as Bob Thiel and Gerald Flurry lie. Why does the church have so few ethical/moral men in leadership positions?"
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Anon, some food for thought, you may want to consider could be another question: If you were Satan, how would you do it?
Or, said in other ways/words: How would you do it if you were allowed to impact every nation on earth, every human government on earth, every religion on earth, including God's Church (Rev 2-3)?
You mention lies. Unless Jesus lied, He told us the following regarding religious leaders:
John 8:44 "Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it."
How does that happen to religious leaders? It happens so easily the same way as it does with the leaders of governments of all nations...by a spirit: not God's Spirit:
"Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?" James 4:5; Ephesians 6:12.
But isn't all of that involved with sins or some sort or another? What does Satan and his angels have to do with that? More of the evil fruits of these spirit beings are mentioned elsewhere:
Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,
30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,
31 Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:
Envy is mentioned there, and other verses explain that all unrighteousness is sin, but where is an evil spirit involved?
From the mouth of another apostle:
"He that committeth sin is of the devil;..." I John 3:8
Can that be anymore simplified?
To be continued…
John
Continuing…
Even in the xcogs where the evils of their congregations are known, observed, so often mentioned, and some want to blame/judge God rather than those evil spirits, who do an excellent job in the xcogs giving them counterfeits of truths: e.g. another Jesus, another gospel, a Mickey Mouse Millenniuim, lies surrounding the various comings of Jesus Christ (Dave Pack is an example of that sermon after sermon), a Jesus Christ is god of the Old Testament, etc.
People do correctly see the evils within the xcogs, which are counterfeits for God's Church, but they are Satan's counterfeit governments installed within them. Jeremiah 23 and Ezekiel 34 explain the characteristics of these counterfeit shepherds, groups of men ruling and lording it over men and women and children. The leaders of these xcogs can't point the finger at others, b/c they know they would be exposing themselves.
Ezekiel 34:10 gives God’s observation of what happens to some of these leaders, these false shepherds, who focus more on themSELVES (e.g. feed/clothe themSELVES), and show so little care for His sheep:
"Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I [am] against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them."
Was Dave Pack "fired" by God? Would God "rehire" him? Where is God's flock? Who is Dave Pack feeding? Perhaps those of Dave's flock, are not part of God's Church (a spiritual organism, anyway), and Dave (Pick any xcog leader) has ceased feeding God's flock, b/c it is elsewhere, but Dave does not realize that yet, as/and he continues to spew out Satan's lies..especially about the "second coming" and the MMM. It appears so many of the xcog hirelings are just “spinning their own wheels,” going around on a pig’s tail, like a corkscrew, and can’t even reason in a circle.
I suppose one could get into the politics and its leaders regarding Covid-19 and all sorts of depressing, oppressing, problems within out nation, all nations, today, around this glove, but the root causes would be the same. When will people's eyes/ears see/hear and believe what they are witnessing today, those fruits of Romans 1:29-31; Galatians 5:18-21, and come to no longer be deceived? Time will tell.
When will Dave's thoughts change away from the counterfeits and lies being spewed out from within his own mind?
Time will tell...
John
"the math is absolutely correct"
The math was correct, but the numbers were wrong.
Fibonacci numbers
Another fib! Add "date mining" to "quote mining". You could also try applying the original the original "rabbit problem" sequence to "splinter production".
So if only the Father knows the day and hour.
and no one has spoken to the Father because Christ is the mediator and we can only pray to the father in Jesus' name.
What makes this lunatic believe he can know the day and hour and not the son?
Wow he is literally a nut job.
The Father is the only one who knows the exact day and hour, but I believe that people will be able to pick and month and week once the tribulation begins.
It is time to face the truth like men. Some former Armstrongites have develop deep psychological problems and seem unable to grow up and recover. They cling to the myth that one can believe in Jesus or the mainstream news or the bible or the churches or the schools or the Carl Sagans of this world. They still live in a narrow world of relative safety, clinging to whatever straws they can desperately hang onto.
1155 noted: "What makes this lunatic believe he can know the day and hour and not the son?"
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Because Dave is the go between for Jesus and God and God tells Dave more details than He shares at this time with Jesus. Dave was trained for this in between position when he was on HWA's inside track between HWA and GTA. HWA often called him personally for advice etc. Not GTA so much, or so Dave's story goes.
I expect someday Dave will reveal for the first time ever that God is benching Jesus and Dave will be coming again soon to usher in the WWT. It might take a few hundred sermons to prove, but they have time since now Dave can return when he has finished up sharing everything he knows that no one else does or even could know without him.
Dennis, you've been away from the ACOGs for too long. It seems you don't remember the WCG taboo against saying "Jesus Christ." It was always "Jesus, the Christ." WCG cared everything for the Christ, hardly anything for Jesus.
Two thousand years ago, the Christ came to earth as Jesus. Dave believes that the Christ has come again, this time as Dave. This is the master key that unlocks all of Dave's "prophecy."
Dave will make it official by giving himself the new name of David Christ.
He already calls himself the passover.
He already calls himself the passover.
That's disturbing enough, as the Passover lamb had to be killed. David Christ may be setting up his own Waco/Jonestown scenario in the back of his mind. Let's hope he doesn't take anyone else with him to the grave!
Or he fears being killed by former members that he's swindled out of their life savings. That must be a constant fear that confidence men like him live with.
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