While not a psychologist nor endeavoring to play one on BannedHWA, observing the seemingly God-Haunted workings in the minds of some of my past life peers lies somewhere between fascinating and terrifying.
What is going on in the minds of these men, such as a Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, Gerald Flurry, Bob Thiel and others, who have come to believe and promote what they do?
Religious fanaticism
Why would Dave Pack build a mini Ambassdor, as did Gerald Flurry copying HWA, while also teaching their Christ's Second Coming was imminent? What makes a man, like Dave, give himself every Biblical title he can find in scripture such as "Watcher", "Elijah to Come" "Apostle"? What would make one believe the Two Witnesses would spring from their insignificant church and that they would, of course, work under Dave's oversight? How can Dave Pack make one predictive mistake and miscalculation after the next, as if he could know, about the Second Coming of Christ and claim his math is correct and nothing can go past any time he has set no matter how far past that time it goes? What kind of mental illness is this?
What motivates those in RCG to deny this phenomenon that plays out before them every single week and come back for more? Does it ever cross their minds it might be time to give up on Dave Pack being anything but delusional as to his role in grand scheme of all things religious? Do they ever tire of false prophesies and one dramatic but completely and terribly mistaken line of reasoning on Dave's part after another? Tell me if you know.
What kind of thinking, besides "stinking thinking" does it take for a Gerald Flurry to inflict his kind of oversight, pain and tithe gulping lifestyle on the members of his Church of Brotherly Love? What does it take to see yourself spoken of in the scriptures and remind the brethren of that with a straight face? What kind of followers does one attract that can do that with a straight face and deny what they see and hear is not insanity on display?
What of Ron Weinland, a most insignificant player in the world of theology and religion who does a practice run to Jerusalem as the Witness Couple of Revelation, can't stop predicting the end of all things and thinks he only has the truth of anything when clearly, he doesn't have the truth of just about anything theological? Who does he attract with that record of failure? Oh, and prison not exactly for persecution's sake?
Bob Thiel is supposed to be an educated man. He claims to be a scientist. Why can't he get beyond the ignorance of the Bronze Age with regard to the causes of bad weather? What makes him reason out that "It is God trying to get our attention". Why doesn't the concept of God "trying" give him pause as to the fact that his version of God is obviously not all powerful, knowing or capable of getting the message over to everyone or anyone? He is the God that tries and fails pretty much. Why does an educated man, so called, think his dreams are special announcements in the night about who he is and what his God is "trying" once again to tell him? Why does he draw conclusions from his dreams that billions of others who also dream would never draw? Why the need to be so special? Is it being ignored in childhood? Is it the inability to be skeptical about ancient scriptures being valid today in every way? Is it simply the simplistic view that regarding the Bible, "God said it, I believe it, that does it for me" denying evidence to the contrary?
What is it about all these one man shows that gets stuck in prophecy and seems to have no clue about, or interest in the real message of the New Testament? Why do they hang out in the Torah and the prophets more than in the Gospels and Church letters? Are they bored with that and if they just taught what the actual Christian Church teaches, who would pay attention to them? Is it a perverse attention at all costs they crave? Malignant narcissism? Snakes in suits? Is prophecy their hook that works the best even when false, fake and futile? Have they found that fear sells and deliberately so or do they believe their own delusions sincerely?
What is going on here in the minds of these men who use and fuel fear, guilt and shame to control others and make fools of themselves often. How is it that they can make one foolish prediction and mistake after the next and fail to mention that they did? Tell me if you know. Please.
"Psssst.....Sermon's over..."
18 comments:
What ALL of you need is a kick to the old brain box!š
Good questions, and I believe you suggested some plausible answers: The need to feel special, fear, willful ignorance, and/or an unnatural obsession with prophecy/end times. And, as you suggest, there are a number of viable alternatives - it's too bad that most of these folks appear to be content to remain in the rut which they and their "betters" have fashioned for them. Perhaps, it's too frightening to admit that they've wasted so much of their lives in falsehood and the pursuit of scenarios that will NEVER come to pass!
Once they've become hard sold on the agenda, facts and logic become diminished, and will take a back seat, Dennis. It seems funny that an organization which claims to have the truth, and constantly presents alleged proofs would elevate agenda above fact, but this is what they do, and the members (although they may harbor secret doubts) allow them to get away with it. Their sleight of hand is treated as if unknown or invisible.
The problem is that this line of thinking has now infected mainstream christians in the USA who ignore the error and faults of their leaders and continue to back their agendas just as we criticize the followers of Pack, Weinland, Flurry, etc. for doing. People no longer care about facts. They want their vision of church or country to be the only acceptable one, and all who disagree are no longer even acceptable human beings.
I see a very bad ending for all of this.
Answer: love of money, at all costs.
Anon 9:26, and who exactly is going to have the balls to do the kicking, you?!
1116 noted "I see a very bad ending for all of this."
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As do I. Specifically for Dave Pack and Gerald Flurry in our previous orbit and for the country as well in its current fascination with loons and Christian Nationalism. Creepy and feels like a lesson not learned from the past approaching again.
They remind me of the politics in this country, corrupt as can be from top to bottom, but the people will have it so, witness the elections now and times past in recint years whom they vote for. Politics and religion have this in commom, no matter how much money they take it's never enough, same with people who follow these religious pharisees, tell there congragations to give and give, while they travel and live the life of luxury,
Prediction: Ron Weiland when trouble comes to this country will flee to the Netherlands, or Germany, I believe he has a lot of money stashed in one or more banks across the pond, and he will justify it by saying he has to go there to finnish the work,one scam after another with these clowns, reminds me of Hitler and how the citizens loved him, and what was Hitler saying when he was losing the war, it was the citiens fault, not his.
And so the clowns must be having a field day laughing at the brethens stupidity as they count the loot, and enjoy there $200.00 or more dinners, and expensive cars, homes, vintage wines etc, traveling in private jet, or flying 1st class, but the brethen will have it so. These clowns will reap till there is no more to reap and than abandon them,as the saying goes ignorance is bliss for a time, but revelation can get very scary.
And with all that looking forward to what the James Webb telescope may show,
Dennis, you have pulled the rabbit out of the hat, right in front of our eyes, by quoting Churchill!
He said: “A fanatic is one who can’t change his mind and won’t change the subject.”
Dennis, you are to be congratulated with this superb insight. In one simple sentence you have perfectly described this website and its small number of WCG critics. Fanatics all.
Now, you ask a lot of questions, and rightly so. But you gave no answers. The simple answer covers all your questions. That is: All this was prophesied and we are all watching it happen, live. Haven’t you ever read, or heard those predictions? And, part of the predictions was that the Father’s Spirit was to be withdrawn. So, your questions are describing men’s reaction after losing that inspiration and doing their own thing. Another proof the Bible is true.
There’s much more to discuss, like the over 50 reasons the CoG’s don’t understand prophecy. But, that’s probably of no interest here. Right?
Better yet, just get a copy of Festingers "When Prophecy Fails". Its a bit dry and an older work, but you'll recognize some familiar patterns.
As usual Bob Petry stops in right on cue and says a lot of crap with nothing to back it all up with. You never have an answer for anything. You are no more an authority on Scripture than Rod Weinland and Bob Thiel are. Go back to your crazy prophecy blog, restart it, and post you nonsense there. You have about as much biblical knowledge as Dave Pack does, which translates to nothing.
I think that members are like someone in an abusive marriage. They stay, not because they are comfortable, but it would be even more uncomfortable to leave. They know what they have in the church, but don't know what life might be like outside it. I think of the patient suffering from a terminal illness and undergoing painful medical treatments to hang on. They might do this, in part, because of the fear of what might be awaiting them beyond the grave. The known, regardless how bad it might be, is sometimes more desirable than risking what might be moving into the unknown.
Fanatics are just like the rest of us only more so. It's mostly about the inordinate loss of group perspective operating with a desire to belong. We could all be there but for the grace of God. These people are salvable. They just need to get a life. They need to quit whining about the end times and direct their energies towards Christian objectives. The end times will take care of themselves.
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2:18 How about using your mind for a change?
And, thanks for being a perfect example of what a fanatical bigot is. Just as Churchill described. Thanks for proving my point.
I do! That’s why I don’t need the advice or theological bull that people like you try and shove down peoples throats.
Leave it to Bob Petry to step up to the microphone in a ludicrous and myopic attempt to present the problem as the solution! Cue Lou Reed's "The Ostrich".
Well actually another 1960's dance craze, one which I believe originated in the Midland/Odessa area of Texas, comes to mind. It's called "The Telephone Pole". To do it, you stand straight and motionless in the middle of the dance floor and wait for another dancer to come along and do "The Dog"
Great post Dennis.
How do we answer this? I think there are many answers but I am not sure if they would satisfy or are correct.
Perhaps there is no one answer.
I would say that the madness that infects humanity is the result of an ‘unseen’ world, and I believe that in part.
For yourself I know that is improbable.
Religious and theological fanaticism are played out in the political sphere as well, indeed within many organisations with almost a ‘quasi religious’ zeal.
Science is an example, the evolutionary debate comes to mind.
Medicine another.
Natural remedies another. The list is almost endless.
Big question hard answer.
Regardless of the answer, as a friend of mine opinioned recently, ‘in spite of the madness be a decent human being towards your fellow even if they are undeserving’.
Isn’t this the message of the gospel?
The tragedy for humanity is so many bast**ds have turned it into a ‘religion’.
One of the reasons I could never function within Armstrongism is that I need chaos in order to be creative. I usually grab what I need (legally of course) and amalgamate it to bring order to the chaos. It requires thinking outside the box, and what is Armstrongism if not a box created for the purpose of controlling others and their resources.
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned Eric Hoffer's classic work on fanaticism, The True Believer. This handy little book explains in plain English, how a fanatical movement forms, and how a person becomes a fanatic. Hint: it starts with a person regarding himself as utterly worthless. Sounds familiar, no?
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