How is it that we continually fail to see what a magnificent and important man Bob Thiel is? No human the history of the world and particularly in Christendom has had an impact in Africa such as he has. No one on the entire continent had ever heard the real truth till Bwana Bob hit the scene. At that moment the gates of heaven opened and the True Light shined down upon Bwana Bob's doubly blessed head and Africa knelt at his feet as the Great White Overseer come to tell them his truth.
Like any good Church of God leader, Bewana Bob has to stick his nose into every corner of the lives of his followers in Africa, even into their dating and sex lives. Though with their sex lives he treads lightly as polygamy is still an accepted practice by many there.
Like all white missionaries from the past, Bwana Bob the Chief Overseer is here to tell Africans how to date and they are lapping it up! Noting is more important to the Christian walk than to have some smug white American tell you just how things should be. That includes how Africans should be dating.
Bwana Bob, like all of his fellow COG leaders, has never had an original thought in his head so he has to plagiarize and rewrite Worldwide CHurch of God literature and pawn it off as his own. His dreams can't keep up with his needs so he takes the works that others have done and repurposes it for his own edification.
The Bible teaches that “in a multitude of counselors there is safety” (Proverbs 24:6). Therefore, this book consulted many Church of God writings on courtship from ancient times to present. Such as a book originally published by the old Worldwide Church of God in 1969 titled “Modern Dating,” a series of articles in the 1987 editions of the “Good News” magazine, a 2003 article in Servant’s News, 21st century writings at COGwriter.com, and, most importantly, the Bible.
This new tome by the Great Bwana is so important that Africans are flocking to read it.
As far as dating goes, CCOG evangelist Evans Ochieng mentioned that our booklet, Dating: A Key to Success in Marriage, a practical dating guide for Christians, has been popular in Africa.
The proper translation to the above comment by Bwana Bob is that one little group of probably no more than 10 - 15 kids might be interested in his book, yet it is important for the Great Bwana to make it look like it is wildly important in Africa.
One of his tidbits of "truth" states:
If you are dating to be seen, to be more popular, to get physical affection, or other selfish motivations, you are following the way of get.
Interesting comment considering how much Bwana Bob does and says is due to his constant need to be seen. He has an intense need to be popular in the COG so that people will flock to his group, but as usual, all of these deceived people are following the way of "get" and refuse to follow him. Everyone is so selfish!
When a gentleman asks a lady out, he is putting himself on the line - risking rejection and hurt feelings. By using charm and grace, a lady can promote a man’s self-esteem in a right way, even if she wants to (or has to) turn a date down.
If you are a woman, be a gracious and truly feminine lady. Likewise, if you are a man, be a noble and masculine gentleman.
As usual in the COG movement, most of the responsibility lies at the feet of women so that the delicate egos of its men don't have to face rejection. Bwana Bob's blatant rejection by the ENTIRE COG movement is constantly simmering in his head and it carries over into what he writes.
Like all other COG literature on the subject, you can tell it is written by a man. Its always from the man's point of view:
Women appreciate men who take the lead in the proper manner. Not on some macho kick, but truly showing thoughtfulness and consideration. Pulling out a chair, helping with her coat, opening the car door - these are but a few of the characteristics that make a man stand tall in a woman’s eyes.
In the same way, men genuinely admire and appreciate a true lady - one who will respond and do her best to make the occasion he has planned for her successful.
And more words of wisdom:
Men and women are different emotionally. Men often accuse women of being over-emotional and irrational. Women frequently complain that men are demanding and insensitive.
Because God’s morality has been more and more rejected, women sometimes say: “Where are the men? We just meet irresponsible, immature little boys - we never meet any real men!” The men counter: “Why don’t women stop being so aggressive and hard? Aren’t there any sweet, gentle, feminine women anymore?”
Now, men should not be cavemen types, with no regard for a woman’s feelings, nor should women be spineless, clinging vines.
Spinless clinging vines and immature little boys pretty much describe a certain "leader" of an improperly named COG who seems to be in a constant state of immaturity and whininess.
33 Nevertheless let each one of you in particular so love his own wife as himself, and let the wife see that she respects her husband. (Ephesians 5:21-33)
And on that last point (verse 33) ladies, if you do not really respect the man you are dating, you obviously should not marry him as you are told to respect your husband. A man wants to be respected.
Another sore point with the Great Bwana is that there is no COG leader today that is disrespected the most than he. Even the craziness of Gerald Flurry and Dave Pack fails to keep at bay the lapdogs that grovel at their feet willed with respect and awe of them. Bwana Bob is incapable of getting that kind of respect and it gnaws at his ego constantly.
When we begin to recognize the differences in emotional makeup, problems that come up can be defused and overcome. A true gentleman will respect a woman’s feelings. He will seek to understand her point of view, and he will strive to be sensitive to her moods and emotions. He will try to support her in both her ups and her downs. He will do things within his power to put her at ease. He will realize the value of a sincere compliment at the right time to encourage her.
Likewise, women should recognize how fragile the male ego sometimes is. As well as realize that men simply do not always see things the same way as women. That does not necessarily make them insensitive—it makes them different.
Never has the COG had a leader with such a fragile ego as we have in the Great Bwana Bob. Literally, anything with burst it and send him into a narcissistic fit.
The Great Bwana also talks about morality.
So, what should be your authority for morality?
Jesus taught:
4 It is written, “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)
Yes, we get teachings on moral authority from the word of God.
It is always laughable when you see a COG leader and so many in the ministry talking about morality when some of the most immoral people the COG has ever seen are in its ministry and leadership.
No one should ever look at COG leaders as standard-bearers of morality!
The Great Bwana then goes on about "loose" women.
As morals become more and more lax, men need to be even more wary of “loose” women:
3 For the lips of an immoral woman are as sweet as honey, and her mouth is smoother than oil. 4 But in the end she is as bitter as poison, as dangerous as a double-edged sword. 5 Her feet go down to death; her steps lead straight to the grave. 6 For she cares nothing about the path to life. She staggers down a crooked trail and doesn’t realize it. (Proverbs 5:3-6, NLT)
Whatever “comfort” sexual relations with the immoral provide is not good for you. Consider also that prostitutes are usually women pretending “love” for their clients—they want their clients’ money, but otherwise despise them.
Once a man has engaged in fornication (and other forms of sexual immorality), it is more difficult for him to keep from wanting to continue in it. Once a woman has engaged in fornication, she knows she is no longer a virgin and it is more difficult to turn down fornicating pressures.
Let me add that studies have found that Protestants that identify themselves as Evangelicals are about as likely as those who do not claim Christianity to engage in fornication. Many reason around scripture and confuse sexual desire for love.
Not only is it "protestants" fornicating but Church of God people at Feast of Tabernacles sites. Feast sites have long been hotbeds of wild sexual escapades. Facebook is filled with stories of people who had their first sex at the Feast of Tabernacles when talking about "Feast flings". As usual, though, COG leaders love to throw the first stones.
Did you ever turn down a date because you found something wrong with the person and made up an excuse? The Great Bwana Bob says this is a direct ticket into the Lake of Fire! Who knew! Bwana Bob has apparently been on the receiving end of this kind of rejection far too many times!
Realize that a date is a commitment. Whether you are the one who asks for the date or the one who accepts the date, you need to keep your commitment. If you have agreed to a date, be ready for it and be on time.
Remember, the Bible teaches, “all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone” (Revelation 21:8).
Only truly masculine leaders are men who lead on dates and plan those dates according to what HE thinks the women would like:
For the first few dates, the responsibility for selecting and planning activities normally rests on the man. While some men are not comfortable with this (especially when they first start dating), this is a unique and profitable opportunity to develop proper masculine leadership, and have fun at the same time.
A thoughtful leader will try to plan dates around activities that he thinks that the woman would like to do. A man could have two or three ideas in mind, and ask the woman which one she would prefer. This allows the man to do the planning and preparation, while giving the woman input.
It's important for the man to take control like this so that the woman can dress properly:
A man should tell his date what she will be doing and where she will be going so she can plan and dress appropriately.
If you are going to a fancy restaurant, to see a play, or do something somewhat elegant, formal attire might be called for.
If you are going on a hike or some similar outdoor activity, boots and/or rougher clothing are more likely to be called for.
If you are going bowling or something casual, casual clothing would seem to be called for.
If you are going to a beach, appropriate swimwear, which for women would tend to be a full one-piece bathing suit and a cover-up, and for men some type of bathing trunks (not like small, tight underwear) and a t-shirt may be appropriate.
Men and women can consider styles and fashion, but should not try to dress in ways society now considers to be sexy/seductive.
This basically means you should not wear clothes that are too tight or are sheer enough in inappropriate places to see through (unless there is a slip or something not see-through under it). Also, your underwear should normally not be seen and your clothes should cover up a sufficient amount of skin.
Do you want your date to end decently or in tragedy?
While dressing decently does not guarantee the date will end well, dressing provocatively increases the risk the date will end tragically.
Why is it that COG leaders think women are too stupid to know how to dress? Mansplaining seems to be their main job.
Ladies, despite seductive clothing styles many wear today, be assured that you do not need to dress seductively for a man to have interest in you. Any man who chooses to date you because you dress like a harlot or seductress will later look for others that way, even in the unlikely event he would stay around long enough to marry you.
The Great Bwana then warns us about COG men who can't keep their pants zipped and usual it's really the woman's fault for enabling those men.
Ladies, consider that men, Christian and otherwise, can have issues with self-control. Male libido hormones tend to engage more quickly than female ones. Be careful on dates to not be in situations that may tempt your date to pressure you to sin. If someone, be a date, relative, friend, or stranger, attempts to force you to have sex resist and scream as loud as you can—do not allow it (Deuteronomy 22:24-27). If you are raped, report it to the proper authorities. Do not enable rapists.
Gentlemen, you also need to remember that when a seductress grabbed Joseph’s clothes, he fled (Genesis 39:12). “Flee fornication” (1 Corinthians 6:18, KJV)!
The Great Bwana then tells us about the time he got trolled online by a seducer:
Let’s look at a real-life example. I got the following message recently when I was on Facebook (with slight edits):
Shalom:I am Ian XXXXXX from Africa. I'm happy to meet you. I'm looking for a wonderful lady like you. I hope you will like me too.... God bless you we are in touch as a church.
So, this person is claiming to be a Christian, hints he is a Sabbath keeper, is claiming to be interested, and wants to someone to ‘like’ (presumably romantically) him. Well, he apparently does not pay too much attention to who he sends this type of trolling trash to as I am not female.
Also, during the time I was working on this book, I got a some type ‘Flirt’ request from some social media email.
Should you receive them, do NOT be flattered by such things and other improper flirtations. You need to be concerned about flattery (cf. Psalm 12:2-3; Proverbs 6:24; 26:28), even from people, like Ian, who claim to be interested in the Church.
Ian can't be any worse than a Chief Overseer who starts a cult based upon some silly dreams and a mythic double blessing. Ian and Bob are the same kinds of trolls.
The only proper online dating letter one should receive is this:
Hi. I am XXXX XXXXXXXX. I am a member of the Continuing Church of God in central New Zealand. I saw your profile on Facebook. How long have you been part of the church?
If God is involved in your choice of a wife or husband, and both you and your future mate set yourselves to obey God’s laws concerning love, marriage and sex, you can’t go wrong. Ask God to help you see everything you should as you decide who you want to marry.
Jesus told His followers:
2 The harvest truly is great, but the laborers are few; therefore pray the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into His harvest. (Luke 10:2)
More laborers for the harvest means more Christians. Which also means more potential people to date.
The Great Bwana also speaks out about dating people in other COG's with one HUGE qualification:
Does this mean that the only people in the Continuing Church of God can date are those who are baptized members in the Continuing Church of God?
No.
There are other true Christians in many Sabbatarian Church of God groups.
However, since we are unaware of other such groups/organizations being Philadelphian, it is our hope and prayer that your potential spouse is one who would be ‘Philadelphian’ (Revelation 3:7-13).
The Great Bwana then tells people to look at an individual's mental stability when deciding to marry. Imagine that, Bwana Bob telling someone to look at a person's mental stability first. This is Bob Thiel, remember. Bob Thiel.
1 But know this, that in the last days perilous times will come: 2 For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 3 unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control, brutal, despisers of good, 4 traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, 5 having a form of godliness but denying its power. And from such people turn away! 6 For of this sort are those who creep into households and make captives of gullible women loaded down with sins, led away by various lusts, 7 always learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. (2 Timothy 3:1-7)
Yes, there are people you should not hang out with.
Amen to that Bwana Bob! That's exactly why people in the COG will not follow you.
Not everything in his book is bad but the problem remains is that this is Bwana Bob writing this, a man who is a walking comedy routine which leads us to not take anything he says seriously.
28 comments:
Oh my.
A book on dating from Dr Bob Thiel.
You gotta be joking.
However if this makes the NYTimes best seller list I might be interested.
Well actually NO.
Bob has never read The Song of Solomon.
The Bible teaches that “in a multitude of counselors there is safety” (Proverbs 24:6)
Is this Bob's endorsement of Biblical polygamy? That's one way to encourage his African followers!
I would think that there are far more important issues in ministering to Africans. But, that would depend upon which region of Africa in which most of Bob's students are located. The WCG dating booklet(s) were basically very Euro/Amerocentric in nature. At the time they were written, black people in South Africa were having to deal with Apartheid (a system with which coincidentally HWA was very much in agreement).
Some regions of Africa today are run by warlords who conscript young men and train them (often unwilling ones) as assassins. In these areas, rape is like the national hobby! In Somalia, female circumcision is the custom, and in most cases involves clitoridectomy. The women actually have parties celebrating a younger woman in the family entering full womanhood when she has had her clitoris removed. AIDS is rampant. But here we go! Bob Thiel wants them all to know HWA's dating rules!
This is pretty damned pathetic!
Don't ever get dating advice from a jack ass a.k.a. Bob Thiel!
I can't wait for Bob's rewrite of HWA's Missing Dimension in Sex book! His African congregants will undoubtedly go wild!
There's quite a lot here to consider. But I'll settle for this:
When a gentleman asks a lady out, he is putting himself on the line - risking rejection and hurt feelings.
In 2022, he's also potentially asking to be reported to a COG minister... and even possibly facing a sexual harassment suit. The male-female rules (at least in society) have changed that much.
The dating challenge for many in COGs is that the "fish in the sea" pool that some ministers have loved to mention has become quite small. Some congregations have no one of the opposite gender in an appropriate age range to date.
On top of that, "singles fellowship activities" at some COG Feast sites have disappeared. At least in the past, free breakfast could be a consolation prize.
Look, the Armstrongist brother is trying his best to help someone here. It's good that he wants to help, and his problem is not his heart but Armstrongism. Armstrongist theology over-emphasizes what people are supposed to do. Works and performance are on the critical path to salvation, but grace is barely present. It is hard to be any other way when you are immersed in OT legalism. But when you get the performance model in your mind, you begin to think that is the way all of reality works including dating and marriage. And grace seems like a joke.
Dating and marriage are not a matter of "doing it right." In this fallen world, you can't do it right. I know people who were so careful in their selection of a mate that you might have thought they had OCD. But they could not foresee that their chosen mate was going to develop a chronic physical or mental problem down the pike that would change their lives and stress their marriage beyond measure. If you manage to enter into a good marriage, it is a matter of the grace of God -not conforming to all kinds of principles proffering wisdom. Conforming to principles is the Deuteronomic approach and we live in a Jobian world. It helps to date or marry someone you enjoy being with but even that is not a guarantee of anything. I should mention that this flawed view of "marriage by works" not only burdens Armstrongism but also evangelical Christianity.
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Zippo said: "I can't wait for Bob's rewrite of HWA's Missing Dimension in Sex book! His African congregants will undoubtedly go wild!"
It's called the African Missionary Position.
I've always enjoyed the Presbyterian pick up line of "Hey Girl, your name must be Grace ....because you're irresistible!"
However, that line doesn't work on the ladies of the COGs - because they don't get grace and are completely uninterested if you try to explain grace to them.
"If you are going to a beach, appropriate swimwear, which for women would tend to be a full one-piece bathing suit and a cover-up, and for men some type of bathing trunks (not like small, tight underwear) and a t-shirt may be appropriate."
Sorry, Mr Pack- Speedos are out!
"It's called the African Missionary Position."
OMG! I just blew my beer out my nose when I read this! This is hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"It's called the African Missionary Position."
It is actually The Doubly Blessed Missionary Position
Forget Bob's book I'm more interested in the shocking fact NO2HWA dished out that " Feast sites have long been hotbed of wild sexual escapades"
With what information do you base that on NO2HWA ? What types are indulging in such immorality AT THE FEAST ? The youth? The membership? The ministry?
Feast frolics and fornication
Anon 117 - I can remember my local pastor making announcements at a FOT in the 1970s; what was supposed to be a successful "Sock Hop" didn't turn out that well. He calmly reported that certain youths had separated from the supervised activities and were apparently indulging in fornication.
The pastor's non-member son was a personal friend, and I found some such activities had gone on. What I hadn't known was a number of members' children were gay, so the pastor's claim of "fornication" may have been a little broader than the congregation may have imagined.
A big reason why Thiel's book is not realistic for a African audience is that dating is unknown in most traditional African cultures. Couples meetings are usually arranged by families, so are the marriages. Also, the bride's family usually has to provide a dowry, which may consist of cattle, goats, sheep, money, clothes etc. If one isn't provided, there probably won't be a marriage.
Since Bob's church is just a handful of old white people, and his following is mostly from Africa, and much younger, you would figure that he would have a black couple on the cover for it to be more relatable to its potential audience.
He puts Asians on the covers and doesn’t even have any Asian members. Such a fool.
Yes, the problem of failing to consider the cultural background of the audience seems ubiquitous.
If the 101 languages of CCOG literature were "machine translated" then they will be even less effective than the English version.
Back during that era of the '70s, Hoss, there were whispers about some members who had "been" gay prior to coming into the church, but that was the operative word. It was as if the act of coming into WCG had been not unlike applying a healing balm, a spiritual version of Bengay. The activities at the sock hop you mentioned must have been shocking during an era when getting caught smoking tobacco or pot was such a big deal. Many of us who ended up in Pasadena had come up through small congregations of a couple hundred people. HQ was the WCG equivalent of a megachurch at that point in time, and there was quite a bit of anonymity in those huge numbers. I recall being shocked quite frequently by some of the activities that we suddenly learned were going on. In our small local congregation, the members had pretty much toed the line.
If you are dating to be seen, to be more popular, to get physical affection, or other selfish motivations, you are following the way of get.
Is anorexia God's way? Or is it OK to get physical nutrition, even though that's the way of "get" rather than "give"?
Many studies have shown that just as the human body needs food for physical survival, it needs affectionate touch for emotional survival. Touch-deprived infants can even die from "failure to thrive" even if they receive adequate physical nutrition.
Bob has flown on may airplanes, and has heard the flight attendants instruct, in case of oxygen problems, "Make sure your mask is attached properly before you try to help the people next to you."
There is nothing wrong with seeking physical affection within normal God-ordained bounds. Maybe Bob's parents didn't hug him enough as a child, and he has become the Bitter Bwana as a result of that neglect. But Bob shouldn't inflict his own problem on his followers.
the bride's family usually has to provide a dowry, which may consist of cattle, goats, sheep, money, clothes etc.
The practice of asking for a dowry is Biblical. How strange it is that Bob, in his multitude of words, doesn't provide Biblical guidance about appropriate dowries before marriage. Further evidence, it seems, that Bob would rather follow modern Western customs than the teachings of the Bible.
I'd wager all of the above.
I've been to Tanzania about 7 times. Women breast feed with breasts fully exposed in public, even church. But women won't wear shorts in public. Modesty is guided in part by the culture. To dress immodestly, however it is defined, is offensive to some, so just do the most loving thing.
I'm confused. So NO2HWA is also Hoss ?!
He's a minister, too!
Anon 201 wrote: I'm confused. So NO2HWA is also Hoss ?!
What? Where did you get that idea? No, no, I'm not NO2HWA and vice-versa.
Not that a blogger can't have dual identities, and write with different styles, grammar, vocabulary, typos, etc, but this isn't the case.
Anon 9:45 wrote "He puts Asians on the covers and doesn’t even have any Asian members. Such a fool."
Bob did have one Chinese guy who gave reports or sermonettes but he hasn't appeared for a while. Also when cyclones rip through the Philippines he mentions some members there.
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