Friday Night Smackdown. LCG members apparently are not persevering or overcoming and have to be reminded about this. Oh, and many of them do not have self-control. Just once, can Winnail or Weston ever just praise the members and say, We know it's thought at times, but job well done!" Is it really that hard to practice some grace?
Importance of Perseverance: When Winston Churchill urged his countrymen to never, never, never quit, he was echoing biblical advice. When Joshua took over after Moses, God said, “Be strong and of good courage”—trust and obey Him and don’t be afraid, and you will succeed and prosper (Joshua 1:5–9). Jesus told His disciples, “he who endures to the end shall be saved” (Matthew 24:13). Paul told Christians they must control every thought, resist temptation, and finish the race to win the reward in the Kingdom of God (1 Corinthians 9:24–27; 2 Corinthians 10:5). The Apostle Peter advised early Christians they needed to develop courage, self-control, and perseverance to obtain the precious promises of God (2 Peter 1:4–8). John wrote that only overcomers who persist in their mission will receive a reward in the Kingdom (Revelation 3:7–13). Let’s remember this important advice to persevere in our calling so we can reign with Jesus Christ in His coming Kingdom.
Have a profitable Sabbath, Douglas S. Winnail
14 comments:
Doesn't this guy ever have anything positive to say? Encouragement? If I were in the LCG, I surely would not be looking forward to being chastised every Friday afternoon. Armstrongism always dwelled on the negative. HWA was a contrarian.
Winnail is so abusive!
If Doug’s aim was to encourage the people, rather than continue the smack-down, he would have started on this topic by quoting Philippians 1:6: being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.
In this repeat message, Doug gives another indoctrination booster to the sheep who are too numb to explore the context of the passages he cited within the light of what the Redeemer has done to justify his people.
Doug, unlike St. Paul, writes as if he’s not redeemed and is writing to an un-redeemed audience of Philistines.
Doug misuses scripture to inject the premise that if you don’t do the required works, you won’t be in the Kingdom (though he used the “reward” variation on the theme).
This week, the required works are “Paul told Christians they must control every thought, resist temptation, and finish the race to win the reward in the Kingdom of God”
For the un-redeemed, it’s impossible to control every thought and resist every temptation.
So again, no Kingdom for the sheep this week, though they should keep striving, beat themselves harder, and send in some more money – it’s all they can do in their pathetic condition.
If one cares to carefully study, free from the COG-odd lens, the passages Doug sited, you can see how Doug’s use of them is a cruel distortion of the intended meaning of each passage.
The Redeemed know:
Philippians 4:13
I can do all this through him who gives me strength.
Doug wrote, probably another repeated smackdown message: "...John wrote that only overcomers who persist in their mission will receive a reward in the Kingdom (Revelation 3:7–13...
******
I personally think, unlike Doug, that it would be very nice to quote the words God inspired, rather than read Doug's own thoughts about Get/Self followed by citing some chap/verse only: Hence, we have this the words God inspired:
Rev 3:7 "And to the angel of the church in Philadelphia write; These things saith he that is holy, he that is true, he that hath the key of David, he that openeth, and no man shutteth; and shutteth, and no man openeth;
8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied my name.
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, [which is] new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and [I will write upon him] my new name.
13 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches."
But Doug thinks his words are sooooo important, some of which said this:
"...John wrote that only overcomers who persist in their mission will receive a reward in the Kingdom..."
Doug, what reward? What is it? John never even used the word "reward," so why are you using it? Do you, Doug, expect to live in some castle, while some prayerful widow gets some broom closet?
Are you, Doug, striving to tell your followers that they not only need to earn their salvation, but that they can also try to get a particular reward?
Besides, what John cited in those verses applies to all sealed Firstfruits (FFs): not just Philadelphians. Or, do you, Doug, think God is a respecter of FFs? Is God a respecter of sons and daughters?
Doug, what reward would you have in mind...besides eternal life? Do you want to GET more?
Why do you consistently blame/judge your followers and then burden them with bribery to encourage the followers to make it into God's Kingdom and GET some reward.
Will Doug demonstrate that he has overcome and persevered enough to make it into God's Kingdom (to be established on earth AFTER the 2nd resurrection, and not before) and GET some fantastic REWARD?
Time will tell...
John
Slaves---
Less straw , more bricks or ELSE!
If this one is a repeat, Doug has camouflaged it very well. How sad it is, then, that this is his fresh and contemporary assessment of life in LCG, where people are apparently so miserable that instead of being grateful for Christ's work in them, they are tempted to leave Gerald Weston's depressing and constraining dominion, but instead must commit to enduring in misery until they die.
6.17 AM
Do I love to GET? Absolutely! I love, love, love to GET. I'm a GETaholic. Every morning when I wake up, I ask myself what can I GET out of the day. And I want fantastic rewards as well.
I want to be richer than Bill Gates, have a giant harem and be the most famous person and powerful person on the planet. And I'm m proud of it. And I suggest you look at your bible rather than Herbie's teaching on this. That's the Herbie who lived in a mansion, used private jets, and stayed in five star hotels while demonizing GET.
My bible tells me to "SEEK first the kingdom (as well as GETTING other stuff) and His righteous all these things (again GET) will be added to you."
Christ said in John 10:10 that "I have come that they might have life (ie, GET) and have it more abundantly (again GET).".
So you see John, you are morally a very confused man.
The church uses Cult tactics against it's members. It's so sad what these Leaders and Ministers are doing. They're using alot of fear right now cause They're trying to get their members back under control. So glad I'm no longer apart of this church.
Doug actually has the nerve to criticize church members and accuse them of being negative! I've known from first-hand experience (as in I was there, I heard him say it). It about blew me away considering how week after week he brow beats the LCG members. I wanted to go looking for the hidden cameras because surely this was a joke when I heard him say it. He projects his problems all over other people. Living Church of God needs to start going by their other name.....the Loveless Church of Gerald.
Anon, Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:51:00 AM PDT. said:
"...Do I love to GET? Absolutely! I love, love, love to GET. I'm a GETaholic…My bible tells me to "SEEK first the kingdom (as well as GETTING other stuff) and His righteous all these things (again GET) will be added to you."
Christ said in John 10:10 that "I have come that they might have life (ie, GET) and have it more abundantly (again GET).".
So you see John, you are morally a very confused man…”
******
Anon, while you emphasize "Get," God emphasizes "Give," as follows:
"Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was GIVEN us in Christ Jesus before the world began," 2 Tim 1:9
While Doug strives to orchestrate his way with works of self/Get to get into God's Kingdom, God just does it. It's much better when God does it, and He did it from before the foundation of the world, but why should Doug or you really believe that? Did God lie again?
Do you and Doug think you are somehow giving God a helping hand? Does God need that? But if you like that Get, then strive to go get it. Time will tell.
You may want to consider Trooisto's advice, if you can believe it. Trooisto, Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:03:00 AM PDT, said something wise you may want to reflect on:
“…Winnail is so abusive!
If Doug’s aim was to encourage the people, rather than continue the smack-down, he would have started on this topic by quoting Philippians 1:6: being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus…”
There you have it, but, of course, God must initiate to draw (John 6:44, 65; John 12:32), which means drag people to Jesus, b/c it works no other way. You can't just go and get it, get salvation, get the Kingdom of God. God has planned to give!
And what says Phil 1:6? Trooisto quoted some translation, but here's the AKJV:
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:"
God doesn't make mistakes; He knows how and when to give. How do we know? The Bible tells us so:
e.g. "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:18
There is no doubt on God's part but, apparently, Doug has his doubts about what and whether God will do what He says. He is going to beat the members into salvation one way or another. Another similar worded verse to Acts 15:18 is Hebrews 4:3.
So, what are you and Doug going to do to really work out your earning/getting salvation with perseverance and overcoming, when it appears that it will be God's good pleasure via His done-deal plan to give salvation to humanity, and then subsequently destroy Satan and his angels: those principalities of Ephesians 6:12?
Doug will eventually stop blaming/judging (wrestling) his members when he is given more appreciation of the God of the Old Testament (not Jesus, or another Jesus!) AND learns how those principalities (e.g. 2 Cor 11:4, 13-15; James 4:5; I John 3:8; 2 Tim 2:26; John 10:12-13,1, etc.) impact his own life and the lives of others and, in the meantime, will each of us endure to the "end?"
Time will tell...
John
Anon, Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 9:51:00 AM PDT. said:
"...Do I love to GET? Absolutely! I love, love, love to GET. I'm a GETaholic…My bible tells me to "SEEK first the kingdom (as well as GETTING other stuff) and His righteous all these things (again GET) will be added to you."
Christ said in John 10:10 that "I have come that they might have life (ie, GET) and have it more abundantly (again GET).".
So you see John, you are morally a very confused man…”
******
Anon, while you emphasize "Get," God emphasizes "Give," as follows:
"Who hath saved us, and called [us] with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was GIVEN us in Christ Jesus before the world began," 2 Tim 1:9
While Doug strives to orchestrate his way with works of self/Get to get into God's Kingdom, God just does it. It's much better when God does it, and He did it from before the foundation of the world, but why should Doug or you really believe that? Did God lie again?
Do you and Doug think you are somehow giving God a helping hand? Does God need that? But if you like that Get, then strive to go get it. Time will tell.
You may want to consider Trooisto's advice, if you can believe it. Trooisto, Saturday, June 11, 2022 at 5:03:00 AM PDT, said something wise you may want to reflect on:
“…Winnail is so abusive!
If Doug’s aim was to encourage the people, rather than continue the smack-down, he would have started on this topic by quoting Philippians 1:6: being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus…”
There you have it, but, of course, God must initiate to draw (John 6:44, 65; John 12:32), which means drag people to Jesus, b/c it works no other way. You can't just go and get it, get salvation, get the Kingdom of God. God has planned to give!
And what says Phil 1:6? Trooisto quoted some translation, but here's the AKJV:
"Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ:"
God doesn't make mistakes; He knows how and when to give. How do we know? The Bible tells us so:
e.g. "Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:18
There is no doubt on God's part but, apparently, Doug has his doubts about what and whether God will do what He says. He is going to beat the members into salvation one way or another. Another similar worded verse to Acts 15:18 is Hebrews 4:3.
So, what are you and Doug going to do to really work out your earning/getting salvation with perseverance and overcoming, when it appears that it will be God's good pleasure via His done-deal plan to give salvation to humanity, and then subsequently destroy Satan and his angels: those principalities of Ephesians 6:12?
Doug will eventually stop blaming/judging (wrestling) his members when he is given more appreciation of the God of the Old Testament (not Jesus, or another Jesus!) AND learns how those principalities (e.g. 2 Cor 11:4, 13-15; James 4:5; I John 3:8; 2 Tim 2:26; John 10:12-13,1, etc.) impact his own life and the lives of others and, in the meantime, will each of us endure to the "end?"
Time will tell...
John
8.05 PM
John, yes, God does give to His children, but that's what parents do. God's title is God the FATHER. He is a parent.
In Matthew 19:27 "we have left all to follow you. What do we get?"
Did Christ criticize Peter, saying something like "you are so selfish and greedy. You should be thinking of helping and serving others rather than only thinking of yourself?" This is the answer that the Herb and Kenneth Copeland-type ministers give.
On the contrary, Christ honored Peter's and His other disciples desire for reward. He told them that they would be rewarded in this life and be kings in the next. Demonizing profit is not biblical, and HWAs lifestyle shows that he himself didn't believe what he preached.
Anon, Monday, June 13, 2022 at 1:43:00 AM PDT, replied with writing:
"...In Matthew 19:27 "we have left all to follow you. What do we get?"
Did Christ criticize Peter, saying something like "you are so selfish and greedy. You should be thinking of helping and serving others rather than only thinking of yourself?" This is the answer that the Herb and Kenneth Copeland-type ministers give..."
******
Anon, you seem to like that "get" word, and you are welcome to that, but the context shows that Peter wasn't so much interested in getting some reward, but other things "bugged" him at the time. Christ basically had just told Peter, and those with him, that entering the Kingdom of Heaven wasn't a thing that any human being, even a rich person would be able to get on his own. John 10 tells us about thieves and robbers, who may strive to get through a door by some other way/means than by the Porter, through the Shepherd that Porter was working through (I Cor 8:6 comes to mind).
It amazed and shocked and awed the disciples so much they asked: "Who then can be saved?" No thought of getting some reward there!
Peter must have thought he was doing a lot. Did Peter forgive somebody 70 times 7? What impressive thing(s) was Peter doing? Peter knew things were not going so easily, and were probably going to get a lot tougher, so he asked the One, who said of Himself He could do nothing, what was on his/Peter's mind.
Christ knew that His Father, His God, would get all of the glory, honor, praise, etc. would work it all out: as impossible as things appeared. There's Phil 1:6 again: when God the Father starts something within a person (as He did with the Word who was made flesh), that He would finish, or complete, it. Done deal! Thanks to Christ? No, thanks to God the Father, who knows what He is doing (Acts 15:18) and is working out His plan of salvation (Psalm 72:12), and thank God for that!
Doug Winnail thinks he is going to, by works, orchestrate his way into God's Kingdom of Heaven and preaches that, but God really is into grace. Doug, like Peter, will earn nothing. How do we know? "That no flesh should glory in his presence." 1 Cor 1:29
Have we been lied to, again? No! It's true, and Christ correctly responded to Peter and told him exactly what was ahead for him. Here's the context of Matthew 19:27
Matthew 19:23 "Then said Jesus unto his disciples, Verily I say unto you, That a rich man shall hardly enter into the kingdom of heaven.
24 And again I say unto you, It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
25 When his disciples heard [it], they were exceedingly amazed, saying, Who then can be saved?
26 But Jesus beheld [them], and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
27 Then answered Peter and said unto him, Behold, we have forsaken all, and followed thee; what shall we have therefore?
28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
29 And every one that hath forsaken houses, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my name’s sake, shall receive an hundredfold, and shall inherit everlasting life."
Jesus' answer to Peter and those disciples with him is right there in verses Matthew 19:28-29.
God is a Giver: see Romans 8:28-31. Oh, and verse 32
Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely GIVE us all things?"
What do you, I, Peter, Doug Winnail, former WCG hirelings who fled Pasadena, etc., have to do with any of that? God knows what He is doing (Heb 4:3).
When it comes to God (Not another spirit, or another Jesus some think is god of the Old Testament), Jesus' Father, will it really be "Thy Kingdom come...They Will be done...?
Time will tell...
John
8.37
John, I do not believe your interpretation that Christ was responding to something that "bugged" Peter. Christ had the ability to discern the hearts of those around Him, and always responded accordingly. Hence Christ's comeback of Matthew 19.:28-29 of "...ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. And...shall receive a hundredfold and shall inherit ever lasting life." was a reply to what was on Peter's mind, ie, reward.
In your reply, you use the technique of stretching scriptures by mentally straining to see them a certain way. I came across a book that constantly did this with this with the scriptures they mentioned. However communication would be impossible if people had to constantly mentally strain to understand one one another.
Anon. Monday, June 13, 2022 at 4:05:00 PM PDT, wrote:
"...John, I do not believe your interpretation that Christ was responding to something that "bugged" Peter. Christ had the ability to discern the hearts of those around Him, and always responded accordingly..."
******
Of course, Christ was perfect and frequently spoke in parables, which were not easily understood even by His disciples.
Matthew 13:34 All these things spake Jesus unto the multitude in parables; and without a parable spake he not unto them:
Mark 4:34 But without a parable spake he not unto them: and when they were alone, he expounded all things to his disciples.
Nevertheless, Jesus understood God's plan of salvation to save all humanity and subsequently destroy the evil principalities: Satan and his angels. God the Father had been educating His Son, and His Son was educating the disciples. Peter had a lot to learn.
Jesus was sinless; you and I aren't. Sin is frequently in our lives and we will pay the wages of sin: death. It's been appointed. There is no getting around that. No one is going to qualify to earn salvation. We are either going to be saved by grace or we will die and remain dead forever.
How are you going to overcome anything? You've already sinned and you don't have the power to save yourself and get some reward for yourself. Granted some people think they can use God's Spirit and somehow choose to qualify to make it into God’s Kingdom, but that never was true. Those thinking that are taking glory to self, taking it away from God.
All glory, honor and praise will go to God the Father for what He did/does by the power of His Spirit through His Son, or you will not be saved; and neither would I! So, I thank God for His grace in our lives.
Where do you fit in? Is that my interpretation, my stretching scriptures?
All of the Firstfruits that God will have sealed will be in the first resurrection (including Jesus Christ, Peter, the Apostles, etc. whoever has been made to be a part of God's Church over the past approximately 2,000 years), because God worked it all out in their lives: God began/finished something in each of their lives...and besides He already put their names in the Lamb's Book of Life. He does know what He is doing. Done deal!
The rest of humanity will come up in the second resurrection (including Judas). God will not lose one, and God gives all human beings to Jesus Christ. There is no need for any third resurrection, although many still believe in that theory. In any event, done deal!
And it's all by God's grace. It's not all about people striving to outdo one another, striving to get reward/position, lording it over others, controlling others, and getting glory for self as though they could do anything to make their salvation a reality.
Phil 1:6 is absolutely true, or God is a liar.
Eph 1:6 is absolutely true, or God is a liar.
You/I will be saved by grace, and not works, or God is a liar.
Do you have to believe all of that to be saved? No, because God will just do it. He knows how to make us all "happy campers," and that goes for those who are in the first or the second resurrection. It's God's plan, His pleasure, His choice, His Kingdom, His will to do it all His way and nobody will disannul what He has purposed.
Will God really save all humanity and subsequently destroy the evil principalities: Satan and his angels?
Time will tell…
John
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