The David C. Pack Tapes #30
“History Channel”
Continuing to dive into the posthumously gifted 16 hours of conversations that William H. Behrer, III, recorded of David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God has been a unique challenge. Due to the length and number of files, I opted to address the low-hanging fruit first by starting with the shortest ones.
There are already four recordings not worth reporting on. My goal is to only present the most noteworthy for the public interest. These recordings are educational by further piecing together the mosaic of who David C. Pack really is when the doors are closed. The unfiltered conversations provide a growing character study of a man who claims he is God’s Apostle and Elijah.
This may be a disappointment for some, but there is nothing illegal yet discovered or any “super wowzers” that would tantalize the casual non-COG reader. If anything illegal is revealed, the local authorities will be notified. If Mr. Behrer did not do that already, I doubt I would be able to, either.
But, for those who were in RCG and have dealt with David C. Pack, this will give you PTSD flashbacks. I have heard from multiple former ministers that this was how the man still operates privately, which these recordings will provide you with a taste of.
Two patterns have “more clarity” based on the seven files I have reviewed. These patterns were visible to the men at Headquarters but are now immortalized "on tape" for those who never met him so they can experience them for themselves.
1) Dave does not let people finish their thoughts because his words are more important.
He verbally steps over people so that they do not get to finish what they are saying. Dave had heard enough, and now, back to what was really important: What he had to say. Keep this in mind when you listen to all the recordings, and you will not be able to "un-hear" it.
2) Dave tells the men exactly what they should say or write because he knows how others will think and react in return. He has entire exchanges figured out before they happen.
Jim Habboush is not the only Meat Puppet at Headquarters. Throughout the years, all the ministers in The Restored Church of God have been spoon-fed words and given responses to responses because "all-knowing" Dave is a master at dissecting human thought in advance.
David C. Pack WANTED these conversations recorded so there would be a precise execution of his will. One man told me a story about how he got “a talking to” because he did NOT record a conversation and did not use the perfect words Dave had graciously provided.
The goal was met, but Dave was still unhappy that his exact words were not cloned. Why?
If a man is successful at a task and parrots Dave’s words, Dave could claim another victory due to his direct involvement. However, if that man had made his own choices and used his own approach, Dave could not place his flag on that hill. Every success at RCG must fly under Dave's banner to be valid.
Every "win" at Headquarters needs to originate with Dave’s superior counsel and not because of the skills and discernment of the men under him.
The men will get full credit for a task only when that task fails or is a disappointment. If something went wrong, it was the man’s fault for not following Dave’s instructions effectively. Or he is just incompetent. (Ministerial incompetence will be covered in Tape #34 next time.)
Tape #30 is a seven-minute discussion of how David C. Pack wants William H. Behrer, III, to respond to the request by Mr. Zwick at The History Channel for Dave’s involvement in “The Nostradamus Effect” program. They want to include him as one in an ensemble of interviews.
This transcript has been cleaned up to make it more intelligible. The stammering half-thoughts and repeated words would drive you nuts if you had to read them.
[Start]
DCP: Quickly. Bill's gonna respond to Zwick. History Channel. [Unknown] It's outta the question. You literally powerfully validate the crap they're gonna alright?
WHB: Right. Exactly.
DCP: If you use me as a set-up and you reduce me to that crap.
WHB: Yes.
DCP: So. Now here's the point. You gotta say that in the letter, and it's not really somewhere you have to be crude, but being very diplomatic, iddn't gonna get it done. This is not a time for extra diplomacy, Bill. It's a time for "just the facts, ma'am," Joe Friday.
You gotta tell him who I am and what I do. And just say, "Mr. Pack can't possibly lend his name to the kind of junk that others will utter on these subjects. Nobody understands the scope of what's coming. If you wanna understand the full scope, listen to his entire series or read his book, and you'll realize his voice is worth ten times all of them put together. Now, that's an arrogant statement. The problem is, it's true." And he'll either bite or he won't. If we don't say it and we just bow out, we don't want to be in. You gotta tell him why.
WHB: Yes.
DCP: And if he feels indicted, get over it. “Well, go ahead without us.” But there's an avenue. Let's see if we can keep this door open and make it a barn door. Not a side door. And if he says, "Okay, here we are." It's gotta be an interview. You could actually tell him, "If you wanna quote large portions of Mr. Pack, large portions, not even interview him, that's fine. But you've gotta let him be a big part of the answer. If you wanna let other people utter junk, Mr. Pack is happy to set up himself as the Anchor Response.
Do you understand? Or you can interview him. Or, if you want to, you can play most all of his broadcasts. He will actually give you permission to do that." It depends on which one they want to do. I read through all of them. The introductions to all twelve [Revelation – The World to Come]. I can see why he wants them. And they'd be wonderful. But they set up the truth, not falsehoods.
WHB: Right.
DCP: And you've gotta Bill, you gotta use words like, "You're gonna hear fiction from the mouths of people who are ignorant of what they're talking about." Here's what you do. You gotta impress him with our knowledge. They don't understand what happens when, as well as where and to whom. They can't understand the speed, sequence, and seriousness of prophecies because they don't understand the Bible interprets itself. That if a prophecy includes a symbol, Revelation is filled with them. Then God has to interpret the symbol. They just interpret it themself.
So, you know, at the end of the day, you've gotta write a pretty slam-bang deal here. Or they just have to go on without us. And I will never let myself be part of, you know…If they want me in, I'm in. And I wanna know how much they're going to use or they can't use me. But you've gotta act like we got something they want. "Mr. Pack's the foremost authority on prophecy in the world. He's read in every nation and territory of the world. Uncounted millions and millions of his books are out there. He's in demand. He's very selective." Say it. I mean—boom.
We know who prophecy says I am. We know who God says I am. The things I'm gonna have to do before it's over, I better be the top expert. Maybe that's ever lived. I believe. Can I just tell ya? There're are probably three things I do well in life. One is analyze. Two is swim. And the third one's, "I know prophecy." And I know that I know prophecy better than any man who has ever drawn breath on planet earth. I don't count Christ because He's--
WHB: No, I understand.
DCP: I know more than John or any of the prophets because Daniel, he didn't even understand his own book.
WHB: He thinks you're right.
DCP: And then, so, who would be in the running? Herbert Armstrong? Think what I've learned that he didn't know.So, you know what, Bill? Let's act like it. If people reject it, that's their problem.
WHB: Right. Absolutely.
DCP: They won't reject it for long. And soon enough, there'll be a profile. They'll realize, "I could have had that guy,"and then they'll come, and we'll absolutely own any…You know, Joel Osteen's going on Fox News Sunday with his wife. They want, you know, all those Jimmy Carter teeth, Mr. Ed, you know.
And at the end of the day, that's where they're gonna come here. If it's not now, that's okay. It's gonna come on our terms. But let's find out if anybody. Listen. You. "If Mr. Pack speaks with authority for a reason, he is an authority, and he knows he's an authority. It doesn't mean he's arrogant, but he's not gonna lend himself, please understand Mr. Zwick, he's not gonna lend himself to guys who are, frankly, gonna embarrass themselves but realize there's nobody at the History Channel who will know that they did." That's the kind of stuff you gotta utter. This is a longer letter.
WHB: Yes, sir. No, absolutely.
DCP: "So, Mr. Pack is available if you want him to be if you want him to anchor the thing."
WHB: Okay.
DCP: "He'll give you the highest ratings you've ever thought about. He'll scare your audience. But what's coming's gonna scare your audience. And if you're interested in truly educating your audience, which will give you high ratings, everybody'd be talking about it.
WHB: Right. And he was very quick to admit when he looked at the material that this was why he's in contact with you. Because it gripped--
DCP: At the beginning?
WHB: He's watched through four of them.
DCP: Four of them?
WHB: He watched through...four of them. Each of the YouTube clips on each of the Horsemen. That--
DCP: Part one?
WHB: Part one, yes.
DCP: All the part ones.
WHB: So, he said--
DCP: A lot of part ones were the set-up, even for part two and three. But the introduction set up each of the parts.
WHB: So he's aware of what you've said and everything.
DCP: Well, then, I don't know the guy, and he still wants to listen to--
WHB: Oh, no, we're gonna still say it, though. I think we need to be on record. I need to be. You're not saying this, anyway.
DCP: Yeah.
WHB: I'm saying it.
DCP: Yeah.
WHB: We need to be on record. You know, "I've spoken to Mr. Pack, and I was able to sit down with me today, and we finally been able to get together since I've been back and went over what you propose and [coughing], and I'll show that.” Yeah, absolutely.
[Unknown]
[End]
Dave appeared in Episode 9, “Satan’s Army,” which aired on November 10, 2009. None of his demands were met, but the bait was too tempting to pass up. All his tough talk with Mr. Behrer must not have penetrated beyond the walls. Though, if half these ideas made it to Mr. Zwick’s inbox, it gave him the best chuckle of the day.
The show is currently listed with a more woke-friendly title, “Nostradamus Effect: Cataclysmic End of Human History," on YouTube.
For being the “anchor” of the program, it was an odd editing choice to make the audience wait for 16-minutes before the younger, non-Elijahn Dave blessed them with his apostolic wisdom.
For the morbidly curious, this YouTube link will send you to his first appearance: https://youtu.be/0VQ2kuJPFNQ?t=968
If you dare watch the broadcast, do not blink or get up to fetch another beer because you could miss all his shining moments.
16:20 to 16:32 – 12 seconds
20:43 to 20:54 – 11 seconds
25:40 to 25:49 – 09 seconds
29:44 to 29:58 – 14 seconds
34:54 to 35:11 – 17 seconds
36:56 to 37:04 – 08 seconds
41:08 to 41:12 – 04 seconds
41:25 to 41:33 – 08 seconds
43:01 to 43:12 – 11 seconds
That is a grand total of 94 seconds. One minute and thirty-four seconds of Anchor Response Dave in a 45-minute program. How could they have done it without his vital input?
Mr. Zwick must have understood that Dave was best taken in tiny doses. Otherwise, if you give him the floor, he will presume your ears off for two and half hours.
Despite how they used him on the show, RCG felt proud enough to issue a Press Release that is still on the RCG website.
After listening to the meeting and watching the show, what was presented in that release written by Mr. Behrer is pretty laughable.
My favorite line is:
Commenting on his interview, Mr. Pack stated, “I bring a clear and different viewpoint to the program, and as a result my comments stand apart from the other voices presented.”
“…because I doodie in the toilet, not in my pants.” Okay, I added that last bit, but the point remains valid.
The press release quote is not an accurate representation of physical reality. His comments were used as a biblical book report. He provided the Cliff’s Notes for the Book of Revelation. His apostolic authority and keen insight were reduced to "This happens, and this happens, and this happens."
He may have been "clear," but his "different viewpoint" did not "stand apart” from the cacophony of other voices. And there is a legitimate reason for that.
David C. Pack did not understand the nature of the show, or he would have known the whole series did not focus on the opinions of a single person. The producers shotgunned ten different sources in each episode to present a broader narrative.
Coming from a 30-year production background, I could have warned Dave that nobody on earth can promise how much of an interview they will be able to use in the final product. You do not know what the interviewee will say. You do not know what other “experts” will say. There is a balance of who said what best and measuring it against their screen time.
If he wanted to be on more, he should have offered to grow his hair long and get lip and eyebrow piercings. But sadly, the role of Satan was already filled. However little he appeared in the show, his Participation Award is still pinned on the fridge at Headquarters.
In an ironic twist, had Dave been able to bless The History Channel with his “unique insight” in Episode 9, it would be a source of embarrassment today. Everything he used to teach about the Book of Revelation has been thrown out since.
This includes RCG literature and The World to Come programs that Dave wanted Mr. Zwick to watch. These have been scrubbed from all RCG platforms. This should scream to everyone that a David C. Pack teaching does not age well.
The Nostradamus Effect was written vaguely so they could be creative with the material without having to cite exact sources. Another ironic twist is that since that program aired, Dave has adopted the same language for when he preaches now. “The religious texts suggest…” “Some believe…” “…maybe…”
That kind of phrasing is known as a “proof” in RCG today.
While the entire seven minutes is a character study, a few quotes are worth repeating. Keep in mind that none of Dave’s preconditions were met. NONE.
“You gotta tell him who I am…‘Mr. Pack can't possibly lend his name
to the kind of junk that others will utter on these subjects.’”
“…you've gotta write a pretty slam-bang deal here.
Or they just have to go on without us.
And I will never let myself be part of…”
The History Channel featured a verified false prophet, false apostle, and biblical fraud on their program about what the devil will do in the Last Days. Mr. Behrer really did tell them who he was.
It WAS possible to lend his name because his 94-seconds of junk fit in nicely with the rest of the junk. He got nothing he wanted, but he still did it. Of course, he was going to say “Pretty please” but wanted to play hard-to-get. Getting Dave did not turn out to be that hard.
“‘He's in demand. He's very selective.’”
David C. Pack has never been in demand by anyone. Not then and not now. Not ever. Nor did he prove himself to be “selective.” Especially during this one and only time he was asked to participate in anything outside of RCG. Maybe after having thirteen more years of obscurity under his belt, he would now be available for a Wadsworth Chamber of Commerce ribbon-cutting ceremony downtown.
He would bite on ANYTHING offered to him today. Dr. Timothy D. Ranney is waiting to accept your call at (330) 334-2266. If you accidentally ask to speak with a minister who is not compromised, you will be sent directly to voicemail.
“And I know that I know prophecy better than any man
who has ever drawn breath on planet earth.
I don't count Christ…”
This is before self-becoming Elijah. And That Prophet. And The Greatest Nonsense Ever Told! Series. How could he measure such a claim way back then when all the current-day proofs were not yet available?
Consistently failing for seven years running is a perfect indicator of “I know prophecy better” than a fortune cookie. Wait, I take that back. Fortune cookies laugh at Dave. Even without counting that 2013 indiscretion.
“‘…he is an authority, and he knows he's an authority.
It doesn't mean he's arrogant…’”
There is something uniquely arrogant about a man telling someone else to tell someone else how not-arrogant that arrogant man is. That is some next-level meta-arrogance.
“‘He'll give you the highest ratings you've ever thought about…
everybody'd be talking about it.’”
Granted, Dave did not get used in the way he wanted, and The History Channel wisely did not acknowledge the greatness they were sliding past in the hallway. But, if what Dave said was true, The World to Come program on YouTube and worldtocome.org would have been wildly popular. Some episodes gained significant views for a “tiny little church in Ohio,” but even David C. Pack abandoned that flagship format five years ago.
Just ask: If the content is not of interest to the creator, why should it be of interest to the audience?
Flash forward thirteen years, and Dave is still struggling to gain legitimacy and notoriety. He torpedoed any possibility of biblical legitimacy a long time ago. But, oh boy, is his name getting noticed these days. But not in the way he wants. ;)
Thanks to Mr. Behrer, thirteen years after this conversation was recorded…I’m talking about him. And you are reading about him. Please share with your friends so we can give David C. Pack of The Restored Church of God all the “highest ratings” he can stand.
Are you paying attention, Raymond?
Marc Cebrian
16 comments:
This man is even more arrogant and genuinely vile than I had thought. An arrogant, proud, boastful, yet stunningly ignorant, cretin.
How anyone could actually work for him is beyond me. They should receive hazard pay...not really, given they are all accomplices.
The phrase, "Hoist on his own petard" keeps popping into my mind. Well, Dave, the horrendous public relations that has been flowing in your direction of late is nothing compared to what awaits you with Almighty God. Your destruction slumbers not. God speed that day.
Dave is not so tough. I have offered at least 3 times to debate Dave "on his terms" in front of his home church in his secure castle surrounded by his enablers. Revelation? Gospels? Prophecy? Creationism? You name it. I'll just take Marc and Dawn for a bit of support and as witnesses. My breath I shall not hold... Dave's beliefs are bullshit. His Biblical understanding is bullshit. He preaches bullshit and steps in it week after week and his easy peasy math is correct bullshit.
RCG membership and the enablers that surround him are way too easy on the man. Hirelings if ever there were any anywhere at any time in a theological setting. That's gotta feel good when they go home at night with just their thoughts about their day around Dave. I guarantee you those men know better and simple are the RCG Tar Babies, ever more stuck each time they touch Dave's beautiful mind.
He is probably the most ignorant fake theologian one could ever encounter in life. All bluster and no substance. Weak in critical thinking and totally arrogant about nothing detectably real to be arrogant about. Dave is just used to pushing people around who don't have the will to push back. Try me Dave.
In my anonymous opinion (and I have to be anonymous because of power he exerts over a family member)Dave Pack is a narcissist and a ConMan. He has serious, psychological issues because his delusions have become his reality. So sad that over and over again men like him are successful at deceiving many people. But Dave doesn’t come close as some of the big time psychopaths in the past. Had it not been for a pursuit to control through the religion scam, and had Dave been involved with government or the military, instead, he could have been The Man in power and if he had acquired a taste for genocide or playing the life and death game based on the numbers, he could’ve gone down in infamy. Now he’s just another flimflam religious guy saying all kinds of crazy things to talk to people out of their money so that he can live extravagantly. It’s pathetic the way that he panders for attention. Obviously deprived somewhere along the way in the past. Someday, and it could be in the next five years or 10 years or 20 years, or tomorrow, but someday Dave will die. And it won’t be long after that that he’s forgotten.
He was hacked down to tiny sound bites, an unrecognized voice in the wilderness, still unrecognizable today, despite multi-million-dollar promotional effort.
I'd pay to see Dennis vs Dave.
I think Dave was pretty excited that the History Channel singled his videos out, over the other COG groups, to be included in a "worldly" prophecy show. I would give him credit for his presentation and the marketing group for doing an excellent job in advertising. Even though he was relegated to snippets in the show does not takeaway from the success at the time. It could have led more people to the website. I think this was an exciting time for the whole church.
It is too bad the church has fallen so far from 2009. And arrogance and pride definitely contributed to the fall.
Dave is better suited for the hysterical channel.
If this tape had come out publically around the time it was made they would have had a record offering from the membership lmao
"The Sundown Kid said...
If this tape had come out publically around the time it was made they would have had a record offering from the membership lmao"
ROTFLMAO, lmao, Ha Ha, Hilarious, Funny, Hee Hee!
Apparently, you think it is funny your dad has swindled his members into sending in their life savings, selling their homes and businesses, mortgaging homes, etc. That is funny as hell, isn't it?
It's easy to say that kind of shit while you are living off your family members starting your health food business you now profit in.
Laugh at the elderly people who have nothing now and are even expected to send tithes off their social security or welfare payments.
You elitist children of COG cult leaders need to have everything stripped from you so you can see what its like to have a life ruined by your parents. Let the sins of the parents continue to their third and fourth generation, right?
i see people refer to that time as paradise and when the church was on track. i read that and have a problem with it. made a little comment. i could give two shits how that makes you feel either.
and nothing i have now was given to me. nothing. i disavowed him and opened my own operations including multiple other companies outside the piddly diddly health food store he once had decades ago. the business he owned went bankrupt years ago too. GONE. been gone. its been gone for almost 20 years. whatever you think you know wbout what ive got has not a damn thing to do with him. nothing. at the time i got screwed over, shit on, pissed on, pushed around and abused 100x worse than anybody who joined his doomsday cult. i was disowned about 10 times before i finally said hell yeah im cool with that. cut his grandkids off from him. separated myself completely. went to counseling. therapy. still deal with demons and this effing site dedicated to making sure this horror never ends for me. about the only thing that separates me from any of his other followers is i literally grew up in his house but then as an adult looked at this crap and NEVER crossed my mind that I wanted anything to do with it. grew up working multiple jobs always feeling broke as hell. fending for myself as the freak in school and if that wasnt enough with a spotlight 1000x worse from all these judgmental assholes in the church hovering over my every move and attitude and action as the son of freaking DCP. i felt safe NOWHERE until i left. is that what makes me elitest? seriously?
i quit the church and everything related to it in the early 90s. cut my father off in the early 2000s. ive moved on with my life not years ago.... decades. about the only thing im guilty of here is posting my opinions to a hate site that likes to talk about me as if they have the first clue about anything related to me. im trying to join in. perhaps offer some opinions. deliver some facts as it relates to all the misinformation i read here related to the personal side of our family. ive had more interaction with marc cebrian in the last 6 months than all other cogers combined over the last 25 years. do the math on that before you point a finger at me why dont you.
i think your post was awful. it reminds me of the way he spoke to me.
I see this mentioned over and over that i am living off "my family business". It needs to be understood that in 22 years ago i got into a huge and in some ways final massive argument with my father and took my small life savings and credit card from my MOTHER IN LAW and opened my own business almost an hour away from my fathers store. Since that time it has grown into a chain with multiple owners and 5 stores. I only have one. I also opened a business selling racing parts for mazdaspeeds that shipped all over the world and another partnership manufacturing and producing products sold wholesale into retail stores and direct to consumer on the internet. My partners ive had for 15 years and theyve never met my father or do they hear me speak of him.
The idea what Ive accomplished in my life is not my own doing is an insult. Also if you are too dense to see that after all these years Ive started posting here and have reached out to Marc and Dennis and have conversations privately there to see my motivations then I have no words for you. This place is collateral damage for me. Its a horror show that it exists. Understand that. Imagine if a place like this existed for the discussion of your family. A family you are NOT proud of. A history you are NOT proud of.
Anon Nov 5 @ 6:59am - I think you read too much into what Sundown Kid wrote. I know the guy and he is far from a COG elitist. He is also not "living off of" anyone. The guy has been working hard for years to make his business what it is.
Common is no laughing matter, but your observations about Sundown Kid is not accurate.
I'm not one of the haters, and I would never write a bunch of strawman false accusations like 6:59 did. Let's face it, as haters go, there are no white knights. And there are haters from the pro-COG and the anti-COG sides who post their bile here regularly. The hatred is a negative energy drain which contaminates both. Me? I've just tried to make some sense of it all. To retroactively understand how I got where I was.
My goal in leaving Armstrongism was to return to normalcy, to a life that is healthy mentally, physically, socially, and emotionally, and to do that as rapidly as possible. To receive healing from the negative effects produced by the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong. To get away from the extreme condition in which people who constantly expect the opposite of what they see happening are living. They exist attempting to promote that opposite, and to support it both financially and philosophically.
I get along just fine with people from a wide variety of religious beliefs. Jews, Seventh Day Adventists, Evangelicals, Muslims, in addition to your garden variety Protestants and Catholics. And, in my quest for healing, I've asked myself why I can't just see Armstrongites in the same light as I see let's choose the Seventh Day Adventists? The answer is that the Seventh Day Adventists have not been programmed to identify people who are not part of their church as enemies of God, as tools of Satan, and to believe that they'll either get theirs during the tribulation, or we the elite will get to watch them weeping and gnashing their teeth as they are thrown into the Lake of Fire. That, folks, is where all of the hatred began! It was taught and ingrained in us all by HWA! And, hatred begets hatred. You could not have an open forum or blog treating the subject of Armstrongism without that hatred surfacing, because it was an intrinsic factor of Armstrongism from the very beginning. Some people are not attempting to receive healing from it. They simply switch sides with their hatred, thinking that they are sublimating. But, you can't sublimate hatred. It is still pure negative energy, and hurts self and others.
Nobody really knows any of us. The paradox of life is that although there are people all around us, basically, there are barriers locking them out of our minds. So, the reality is that each of us is all alone. Nobody truly knows our struggle with what life throws at us. People like 6:59 need to realize that before making their assinine hateful comments. We can't possibly know the grief we can or might set others off on by a few loose words. We're all recovering from something. That's part of the human condition. It is so easy to say or do something careless that set's the other guy back. That's another thing about words typed on a keyboard, instead of those said face to face. We can't see or know their effect.
"I think your post was awful" - Sundown Kid
Just these two tapes have completely changed my view of Both David Pack and those that have been in his direct orbit, family included.
If these tapes were played to anyone on the street, those persons would conclude quickly that Dave Pack is an awful man. Give the background of the man and inform the listener that he heads a small world wide religious organization and the people would be aghast.
The response that Dave Pack has initiated in me since leaving his organization has been either anger or humor. It is too hard to forget about him so those are my emotional responses. Those are the same responses of others. It doesn't always play well especially when sarcastic humor is used to an audience filled with anger.
Within Dave Pack's organization, my fight was to go against the false narrative emanating from Dave Pack and to fight against Dave Pack's insistence that "we" all become #2 yellow Pack pencils in a box.
The testimony provided here by SDK confirms the horrible outcome of being lorded over by Dave Pack.
Flush with "Common" money and the demand that the membership embrace austerity, Dave Pack announced to the church that "there would have to be a worldwide announcement of just who I am". Multiple failed prophecies, revealing "lost" tapes and the wreckage of the "Kid" ought to make for quite the worldwide announcement.
We would have none of those except for some that are willing to share to present a true narrative. And if not for the sacrifice of these people, 1300 people would be left for dead.
I think I understand what you are saying, I had to look up IMAO to see what it meant in text to speak. Anyway I believe you're right that they would probably just give more money to hear dave pontificate. Once I was there (luckily only 4 years) but I heard him say that you shouldn't get offended at anything because you are nothing. Afterward one of the ladies repeated it that she couldn't get offended because she was nothing and I said "you are very special to God, He has called you and given you his spirit and will give you eternal life at his return so don't let anyone tell you you are nothing". Not everyone here on this blog has allowed a man to take their crown and lose their reward. Some of us understand that God works in different ways with people and he's the only one you can trust and his word is true and he's not a liar.
I agree that it is sad that people share rumors of what they have heard about your family, as if it is automatic truth.
But, it is also sad you feel like you need to pull the "My trauma is worse than your trauma card." Putting a large 10X number on all you have suffered sounds like an exact quote from your father. And, it reminds me of the way he has spoken to hundreds of people.
Not, that you haven't suffered. I have no DOUBT that you have suffered! But, you don't have to prove that to anyone.
Anyone who has been hurt by his words and actions can be smart enough to know that if he acts that way in public, he is probably much worse in private.
Knowing all the ways my family members have been "screwed over" by your father, I can easily imagine your "100x" scenario.
So, I'm gonna say somethings you obviously never heard enough from your father.
1)I'm proud of you -- you had the courage to walk away, ask for help, and grow in life while walking alone.
2) You CAN cry about all the f'd up stuff you've been through! Real people experience their emotions!
3) It is okay to love all your family members, even if their actions make it necessary to stay away! (Sharing how much it hurts to read the insults, means you still care about the person)
4) You are loved - clearly having children, successful businesses, and strong partnerships in said business ventures is evidence enough.
I sincerely hope you continue healing and I hope you can continue to get the love and support you need. And most of all, I hope you find peace.
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