The boys in Cincinnati will do whatever they can to ensure that they get as much of their follower's money as possible.
Ignoring the fact that there is no New Covenant command to tithe, the Cincinnati boys have to resort to old covenant expectations.
Abraham and Jacob gave tithes to God
Most people think there is no command to tithe in the Bible, and this simply isn’t true. They believe in Christian giving, but most don’t even do that. The Bible does say, “God loves a cheerful giver” (2 Corinthians 9:7).
Yes God may love a cheerful giver, but this still is not a command to tithe. New Covenant followers of Christ give because they have been blessed and want to share that blessing. They do it because they want to, not because it is commanded, which it is not.
Abraham gave tithes of all to Melchizedek long before the covenant God made with ancient Israel (Genesis 14:18-20). Jacob followed his grandfather’s example and gave a tenth of all as well (Genesis 28:22-24).
God declares to anyone and everyone who will listen across this planet, “'Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, "In what way have we robbed You?" In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed Me, even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house, and try Me now in this,' says the LORD of hosts, 'If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it" (Malachi 3:8-10).
43 comments:
Even this anti-everyone blog doesn't get it over tithing or refuses to acknowledge the complexities of tithing in 2020's.
When Radio Church of God started, listeners to the radio broadcast sent tithes to support an emerging work.
As it grew with Ambassador College sites at least tithing members and supporters knew the score.
Since the multiple WCG splits the water of tithing has become extremely muddy. Tithing now is complex and usually tithes are not supporting NEW but propping up OLD.
Old ideas, Old ways, Old people, old immovable, high money consuming planes, automobiles and HQ.
If I were an ACOG member, and I witnessed all of the error and pastoral abuse they think they can't do anything about, I would want to hedge my bet by sending some of my tithes to other Christian organizations and ministries. Most members are compromised and don't even realize it. They claim that Armstrongism is God's true church, with one of the signs being understanding of prophecy. Yet they give their church a pass on false prophecies that never get fulfilled, while another church which is producing better spiritual fruits in members' lives doesn't get a pass for teaching a different sabbath. What hypocrisy!
They completely misinterpret all the verses in Holy Scripture re tithing to mean paper money when it’s been proven definitively and beyond any and all reasonable doubt by excellent authors (like Russell Earl Kelly’s “Should the Church teach tithing?”) to have always meant plants and animals. This is why tithing is never appealed to in the NT by the apostles as a means of funding the gospel’s publication since monetary donations was always in OT (to Temple) and so likewise in the NT (to Church) given freely and with no minimum.
Tithing has always been the key to the perpetuation of Armstrongism. However, as with many other things related to the ACOGs, most folks haven't really considered the logic which underpins this teaching or its implications for their own circumstances. Frankly, it is absurd to think that the system which was used to support temple worship in an agricultural society could be copied and pasted onto a Christian group operating within a modern capitalistic society. In ancient Israel, the tithe was applied to the INCREASE derived from crops and livestock - NOT cash wages for labor performed or returns on investments. Moreover, in today's economy, we have banks financing homes and property and the government taxing incomes, profits, and purchases to finance a host of government services and programs (including many to support the poor and educate the citizenry). Hence, the notion that God expects folks to contribute ten percent of their gross income to support a Church bureaucracy is absurd! God may love a cheerful giver, but he also expects folks to use the brains he supplied to them! And we haven't even touched on "second" and "third" tithe!
The obviousness of the false tithing doctrine was one of the things that made me look into other false doctrines and eventually see that Armstrongism itself was false.
The boys in Sinsincity still don't even understand the old covenant tithing, still cannot distinguish between "third year" and a false "third tithe year". There never was a "third tithe".
Why dont they just open a fish's mouth in faith, and get all the gold coins that they need?
All of you are so wring
7:14 ~ Their faith is lacking, Tonto!
9:23 Wow. The slug is back! But, be that as it may, how are we wring (sic)?
Since the author of the blog being a "minister" can be so blind that he does not understand that Jesus himself said that the duel is absolutely in force...they can say that UCG is lukewarm, liberal, anything, but what the sacred scripture says It cannot be questioned, I leave the writing to you, owner of this blog.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
.....and not to leave the other undone.
Damn! Caught me again!
These blog owners are apostate ministers who turned their backs on God and his word! After destroying lives by preaching WCG's apostasy in England they now resort to this.
Koke,
Look up for yourself why New Covenant Christians recognize there is no tithe command in the New Covenant.
Duel or duo? Meanwhile Young's Literal translation of Mat 23:23 is......"judgment, and the kindness, and the faith; these it behoved [you] to do, and those not to neglect". "Those" seems to be judgment, kindness, faith. Jesus had just said the scribes and Pharisees were tithing, not neglecting tithing.
I do hold a current ministerial credential, but I'm not the blog owner, and have never been to England, but kind of like the Beatles. What does it matter?
Slug ?
Why assume its men 7:22?
“ Why assume its men 7:22?”
Exactly! A lot of the are the Jezebel spouses of high ranking ministers. They love raking in the money while tearing down the church.
Notice it said tithe of mint, ainse, cumin and not money, if you don't twist scripture you would come to the conclusion that you have to tithe crops from your produce and not money from the bank Duet14:22 it was how the tithing system was set up.
Koke6 said: “…Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
.....and not to leave the other undone.”
Wednesday, February 22, 2023 at 5:20:00 PM PST
- - - - - - - - - -
What were they tithing again? “…pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin…” Herbs not money!
... try Me now in this ... If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it
Well, I did try it. For decades. It failed. Miserably. That proves that YHVH is a liar.
Double caught us!!!!!!!
Anon754,
It proves that the WCG and the COGs twist and misinterpret scripture.
And BB thoughts are ?
With all emphasis on the double.
For the sake of journalism, it would be good to reference the UCG source, and name the author, and the publication date.
Prophetic Times
Consider Your Ways
Posted on Feb 17, 2023
by Jim Tuck
https://www.ucg.org/members/news/prophetic-times-consider-your-ways
7:54
BB is correct in stating “It proves the WCG and the COGs twist and misinterpret scripture”—and by extension ALL churches that teach tithing on money—since what was God’s promise for tithing in your citation of Malachi 3:10? Looking at the context (cf vv 8-12) we see God asking His people to bring the tithes into the “storehouse.” What is this place? A bank? Is it a place to store money? Nope! It’s a place to store “meat” (ie food)! And what does God promise to give them in return? An endless supply of money? Nope again! But, to open the “windows of heaven” (ie rain) and to “rebuke the devourer” (possibly locusts or other insects) so the “fruits of [their] ground” won’t be destroyed nor will their “vine cast her fruit before the time in the field” and Israel shall be world renowned for being “a delightsome land.” There is absolutely nothing about money or monetary riches in these verses that churches have misused and misinterpreted to justify their false doctrine of tithing money (even triple tithing money as in WCG)! It’s twisted and sick!
Supposedly BLESSINGS Somewhere But Mostly CURSES In Reality
There are many WCG splinter groups competing for former WCG members and their money. Many deceitful and vicious wolves arose from among the wreckage of the WCG to try to draw away WCG sheeple after themselves. If you support any of these deceitful wolves, it might be a blessing to them, but it will certainly be a curse to you.
If you choose poorly and support any of the many false splinter groups, you could end up UNDER A VERY SERIOUS CURSE, as happened with the people who fell for Flurry's PCG cult or Pack's RCG cult.
Is God, who brought the Israelites as a downtrodden slave people out of the cruel rule of the Egyptian masters with such care as under eagles wings, going to put baptised christians under a very serious curse ?
I think NOT.
The tithe is irrefutable, Jesus said in the gospel of Matthew 23; 23 that there are other more important things than tithing as a priority, but in addition to this it should continue to be decimating .... Putting faith, justice, mercy does not authorize us to let of tithe.
I am not from UCG, I don't defend it either, but I can't deny biblical evidence as the owner of this blog intends.
Other neophytes say that it refers to vegetables, not money, but that idea is absurd and desperate by Quines try to deny this ordinance of God. The Bible refers to tithing as everything we produce and allows us to live ... within these things is dill, mint.
Not everyone in Israel owned plantations, some only worked the land and were paid with those things, others trained the skins and changed them for vegetables, others produced animals and they carried the tenth part of all that.
Only ignorant who has never read the Bible or someone who has no discernment could say that tithing is not an ordinance of God.
Hello all! To anonymous who explained tithing. Well done! Thank you. To anonymous whp referenced those taken in by RCG cult, yesI am one. A PM for less than 2 years but still was affected negatively once I realized what was happening. I see the pain as I read these comments. Be kind folks. We are all trying to deal with the mind f***. I have learned I cannot convince others still in RCGt hat they are in a cult. Don't waste you time either. God will send more delusion to the deluded.
Tithing 401: Abraham and Jacob gave 10% voluntarily, not by law b/c there's no written law to read that says A and J had to tithe. God gave 10% of a nation's increase of the land and of the tree only once every third year to the Levites b/c they were only 2% (Num 31:30) of the population, and the tithe was also available to the fatherless, etc. Israel saved 10%, primarily plant oil, grain, wine, for use at the festivals annually and gave another 10% only once every third year to others by storing up in the "gates". The Levites gave 10% of what they received to the priests and those tithes were stored up in the storehouse. After Jesus' resurrection tithing was discontinued b/c He replaced the Levites and the Levitical Priesthood who were receiving the tithes and you can't give tithes directly to Jesus Christ.
Wrong, people, and wrong, 10:11, when you say that you can't give tithes to Christ. Is not the Lord Jesus Christ a great high priest too? (Heb 7:15-17) The Christian ministry today is an extension of Christ.
I see nobody quoted from Heb 7, which proves that we are to tithe, for Melchizedek received it from Abraham, and both are superior in authority to Levi and his sons who were owed it under the OC. As v7 states, the less (Levi) is blessed by the better one (Melchizedek, a type of Christ and the Christian ministry). For the priesthood (of Levi) having been changed (to the Melchizedekian/Christian one) there has become of necessity a change also in the law (of who should receive tithes). (Heb 7:12) This old commandment was cancelled because of its weakness and uselessness to bring believers to the Lord. (v18) And Hebrews was written on authority of the apostle Paul.
On top of this Jesus quotes a Pharisee who gave of all that he "acquired" (ktaomai; Lk 18:12) so it wasn't just on crops. The fact that crops were convertible into money (silver) means that both commodities were considered an equal means of exchange. (Deut 14:25-26)
But even greater than all of the above is the fact that God owns the heavens and earth. All the silver and gold, produce and livestock are His. (Hag 2:8) So your puny paper money that will go to someone else when you die is nothing unless you recognize this fact. Therefore if you wish to buy, own and use something of someone else's property you have to pay a price. You pay the government, don't you? How much greater is God who established all authorities in heaven and earth? Therefore when you tithe to Him you aren't doing Him a favour -- you are doing it under an obligation to pay the rental fee.
I laugh at you scofflaws who think that your freewill offerings are enough for God, while you reject tithing and think that you have discharged your moral obligations properly. What? You are only obliged to give and not obligated? Go figure out why the future judgment punishments are done in thirds.
Koke61 2/25 @7:03 AM said..."The tithe is irrefutable, Jesus said in the gospel of Matthew 23; 23 that there are other more important things than tithing as a priority, but in addition to this it should continue to be decimating .... Putting faith, justice, mercy does not authorize us to let of tithe.
I am not from UCG, I don't defend it either, but I can't deny biblical evidence as the owner of this blog intends.
Other neophytes say that it refers to vegetables, not money, but that idea is absurd and desperate by Quines try to deny this ordinance of God. The Bible refers to tithing as everything we produce and allows us to live ... within these things is dill, mint.
Not everyone in Israel owned plantations, some only worked the land and were paid with those things, others trained the skins and changed them for vegetables, others produced animals and they carried the tenth part of all that.
Only ignorant who has never read the Bible or someone who has no discernment could say that tithing is not an ordinance of God."
---
Rather than copy/paste someone else's far better explanation I'll simply refer you to this excellent Q&A discussion on the Biblical Hermeneutics site in which the question was asked Lk 11:42 and Mat 23:23 means tithing is for Xians today. Check out the top 2 responses.
Also, your claim that to believe tithing involves “vegetables not money” is “absurd and desperate” is completely wrong. If you study the various passages on tithing carefully in context you’ll see it's actually very clear. The ancient Israelites tithed agricultural produce and reared livestock to the landless Levites, who then gave a "tithe of the tithe" to the Aaronic priesthood. The tithing system was interconnected with the sacrificial system. OT references are clear they didn't tithe money eg Cain and Abel bring offerings of "the fruit of the ground" and "the firstlings of his flock" (Gen 4:3-4); the "spoils of war" Abraham tithes to Melchizedek (Gen 14:11) is referred to as "goods" (H7399 "rekush") and "victuals" (H400 "okel"). The former meaning "livestock" and the latter "food supply." Even the LXX translates the verse: "And they took all the cavalry of Sodom and Gomorrah, and all their foods, and they went forth”; When the Israelites demanded a human king the prophet Samuel prophesied he would appropriate "...the tenth of your seed...vineyards...sheep" (1 Sam 8:15, 17); After the Babylonian Captivity the Jews make a pledge about what to tithe and to whom: "And that we should bring the firstfruits of our dough, and our offerings, and the fruit of all manner of trees, of wine and of oil, unto the priests, to the chambers of the house of God; and the tithes of our ground unto the Levites, that the same Levites might have the tithes in all the cities of our tillage" (Neh 10:37). Note this verse and the next (38) connects with and clarifies Mal 3:10 re the “storehouse.” In the NT Christ condemns the Pharisees rigid compulsion for tithing minutiae like "mint and rue and all manner of herbs (G3001 "lachanon") (Lk 11:42; cf Mt 23:32) and the word translated "herbs" means "vegetables." Even secular historical records, including Tobit (1:6-8) and Josephus ("Antiquities" Bk 4, Chp 8, Par 3-4, 8 & 22) are consistent in what the tithe comprised and it wasn't gold, silver or other type of money!
Likewise, Anon 2/25 @12:14 PM please check out the same link above I posted for Koke61 and Bible Hub's commentaries on Luke 18:12 as I believe both pages will answer your claims re Hebrews 7 and Luke 18:12.
I hope these will be of help to you and anyone else re-studying the topic.
So which of the COG Gods do you propose people tithe to? Should they split their tithes across the 600+ groups ?
Get off your high horse and stop condemning people.
“ So which of the COG Gods do you propose people tithe to? Should they split their tithes across the 600+ groups ?”
Well dingle berry, if you knew your Bible as you imagine you do, you would know there is no need to tithe to any group because the New Covanent does not command it. Take a chill pill and calm down little man.
Right on, 7:05. Also, Armstrongism has been totally burned as a spiritual resource with all the false prophecy among other things. If people want to tithe, they should go to groups who are more accountable and trust-worthy. Just teaching the sabbath, holy days, clean meats, and British Israelism does not qualify a group as tithe-worthy. You can do all those things and still bear abominable fruits!
Above, it was said that "The tithe is irrefutable" and the words of Jesus from Matthew 23 were used to "prove" tithing being required under the New Covenant.
This COG-logic plays out on several topics, in addition to tithing, and is routed in the COG's tragic lack of knowledge and understanding of Jesus.
Intertwined with the problem of not knowing Jesus is the COG-odd problem of not knowing much about the differences between the two covenants.
Jesus tithed and said that tithing should be done (in Matthew 23) while Jesus lived a perfect life under the law of the Old Covenant.
Jesus fulfilled the law by living perfectly under the law.
In their confusion, COGs claim that nothing will change from the law until all is fulfilled - meaning the law is the same under the old and New Covenant.
In contradiction to that COG-odd belief is the COG's acknowledgement that the law on animal sacrifice and circumcision has changed.
To further muddle their doctrine on the law, COGs insist that they keep the law while in fact, they reject most of the law and have changed parts of the law to suit their preferences.
Within this conundrum of saying the law has not changed and has changed and the law is only what they want it to be, is their illogical denial of the fact that Jesus has fulfilled the law and thereby has changed what is required by the New Covenant.
The COGs don't get Jesus and his mission living as a human on Earth - they focus on Jesus' statement on tithing in Matthew 23 while blind to all his warnings to the teachers of the law in the same chapter.
Then we have the COG confusion on Hebrews 7:12 - believing that the only change to the law is who tithes should be paid to - but they miss verses 18-19 about the entire law being removed.
In their giddiness over believing that Hebrews 7 gives them authority to rake in the tithes, they completely miss verse 25 saying that Jesus saves completely.
Instead, they prefer to re-write God's intentions to say that if you don't tithe to them, they will withhold salvation from you, regardless of the sacrifice of Jesus.
Above it was written:
"Only ignorant who has never read the Bible or someone who has no discernment could say that tithing is not an ordinance of God."
The fact is that no one today is able to pay a biblical tithe.
God's last instructions (that post-date Abraham's giving a tenth to Melchizedek) on tithing was that tithes must be given to the Levites.
You can give a tenth of your produce and/or income to somebody, but if you don't give that tenth to a Levite, it is not a biblical tithe.
You can ask for DNA confirmation from your favorite COG ministers but they won't give it to you because they know it will confirm their lack of "Levite roots".
Under the New Covenant, in 2 Corinthians 9:7, God asks that we give cheerfully and as we are able.
Under the New Covenant, giving ten percent may be too little or may be too much, depending on your ability.
Under the New Covenant, giving out of obligation or with a less than cheerful attitude, is always wrong.
The COGs have so far to go in getting to know Jesus and the Bible - too bad that so many of their members resist growing in grace and knowledge by only consuming COG literature.
COGs have a long way to go
Hebrews 7:12 - Biblehub: The Greek word for "changed" (priesthood being changed) means transfer; a different Greek word for "change" (change of the law) means remove or removal as in Hebrews 12:27 for "removal"-KJV.
Man from "the Biblical Hermeneutics site"
https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com/questions/4157/in-luke-1142-and-matthew-2323-did-jesus-endorse-tithing-for-all-when-addressin
This is a ridiculous and false study.
I reaffirm the biblical truth in the time of Jesus.
The tithe is irrefutable!!!, Jesus answered the question of people like some of this blog, wisely. The context was money...not vegetables or furs...money! They asked Jesus if it was lawful to pay taxes to Caesar..... the coin had Caesar's face, of course Jesus confirmed that the human king can collect taxes from his people. Did the coin have the face of God on the other side?...Of course NOT, but everything belongs to God and must be tithed according to the scripture without respect of persons. The coin teaches us that we all live under a human king, but we must equally honor God with what is due.
Luke 20:22 Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
Luk 20:23 But he perceived their craftsmanship, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
Luke 20:24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
Luke 20:25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
To 11:03 and others who hold the same view that tithing is not required for Christians, you miss the point. It's not a matter of whether Old Covenant Israel tithed on money or not, it's a matter of whether this law is still applicable to believers today. So far none of you can explain Heb 7 adequately, which clearly shows on the topic of tithing that the tithing law is now under the control of the NEW COVENANT ministry, both the law (of paying on increase) and the ministry (Levite to Christian) having been changed from Levitical hands to the Christian one.
Re whether they tithed on money or not, as someone said above, not everyone had lands, crops and livestock but were tradesmen or merchants. Would it be fair if they didn't tithe at all while the rest did? They didn't need to save money for the feasts or give to the poor? It was all on the farmers? Is that fair? Was it fair that God didn't give Levi a land inheritance? I think it was John MacArthur who wrote that Israel's crops and livestock WAS their money.
And Heb 7:18 doesn't say that the whole law is obsolete, a foolish thing to say in light of other testimonies. This verse concludes the whole topic of Heb 7, that is that the old covenant command to pay Levi is no longer in force because (AS MANY OF YOU LIKE TO REMIND US) the new covenant is here, that is the better covenant today which is being administered by a better (albeit failing) ministry.
And Heb 7:12 shows that there is a carryover of this law into the NT dispensation. It says that this law was transferred or changed (into a newer form if you like, since most don't live the agrarian life for their subsistence anymore to pay in produce and livestock)-- not abolished. As Christ did in Mt 5-7 with respect to other OT laws it is a simple and sensible thing, knowing what we know about the Christian's legal obligations, for the NT ministry to extrapolate from this law into the New Covenant era.
And rekush means property, not cattle. Miqneh is the word for cattle (see Gen 46:6 where both are used together). Thus did not Abraham tithe on property too if he said that he wouldn't take a thread or shoe latchet among Sodom's rekush to tithe on it? And where did he learn about tithing if the law supposedly wasn't given? Was it a figment of someone's carnal imagination?
As for Mt 23:23, it is clear that Jesus expected the Levites to tithe ("not leave off the other") for He drew a contrast here in order to put everything into perspective. Don't swallow camels (mistreat your brethren) while straining at gnats (obsessing over admin and office work). He did not revoke the practice of tithing.
In 1 Cor 9 Paul shows that a member is under the obligation to support those who "minister at the holy things", of which are the 1st and 3rd tithes. As he says, if others (like the government) are partakers of this privilege (of benefiting monetarily) over you, are we not more?..." (1 Cor 9:12)
What? If we are to give to Caesar what is Caesar's, what is God's share then? Only what you feel like? Tell that to the government. For all powers are from God and whoever resists (taxation or fees or tithing or offerings) resists the ordinance of God and shall receive damnation (Rom 13:1-2)
9:01 PM said:
"...And rekush means property, not cattle. Miqneh is the word for cattle (see Gen 46:6 where both are used together). Thus did not Abraham tithe on property too if he said that he wouldn't take a thread or shoe latchet among Sodom's rekush to tithe on it? And where did he learn about tithing if the law supposedly wasn't given? Was it a figment of someone's carnal imagination?"
I stand corrected--in part--so thank you for your comment! I should have stated it thus: "the 'spoils of war' Abraham tithes to Melchizedek (Gen. 14:11) is referred to as 'goods' (H7399 'rekush') and 'victuals' (H400 'okel'). The former can have the meaning of 'livestock' while the latter means 'food supply.'"
Some sources for this definition were the following:
1) Among the meanings for "rekush" according to "The Outline of Biblical Usage" by Larry Pierce is "A.ii of livestock"
2) Brown-Driver-Briggs Lexicon states it is a "1. general term for movable possessions of all kinds (often specifically including cattle)" and "2. used specifically of cattle, flocks, etc"
3) Also, note the LXX, which translated the Hebrew "rekush" to the Greek "hippos" (G2462), which means "horse."
Please see the resources available on Blue Letter Bible. I also highly recommend anyone and everyone to read Russell Kelly's Should the Church Teach Tithing?
Hebrews 7:12
For when the priesthood is changed, the law must be changed also.
The ones who read this passage and conclude that tithing is binding on New Covenant Christians make the claim that the change in the priesthood means a transfer of authority from Levites to COGs.
Then they ignore the second part of the verse and instead of addressing how the law has changed, they insist it has not changed.
It’s hard to argue with COG logic - because it’s not rational.
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