From a Church of God the Eternal source
The Doubleminded Jon Brisby
In his deceitfully titled sermon "The Vow of Baptism" (nowhere does the bible speak of baptism being a vow, rather instead a ritual cleaning), Jon makes the bold assertion; "Sunday keeping" Baptist (or any other non-Armstrongite) baptisms are not valid... even if one is sincere, because they don't know what they're getting into. (1:09:00 mark)
Then he proceeds to tell his boneheaded congregation; God promises to give them (Armstrongites) the holy spirit when they get baptised when they're sincere even if they don't know what they're getting into. (1:16:00 mark)
Wait, what?
A clear example of doublespeak, one could never pin Brisby down on a statement, because he carefully crafts a contradiction for his outrageous assertions and will gaslight anyone into not understanding his unclear position on his statements.
This is why no one in his church understands the "official" opinion in regard to doctrine, prophecy, and biblical interpretation.
Maybe Jon Brisby wasn't informed of the fact that his idol Herbert Armstrong was baptised by a "Sunday keeping" Baptist ( The Enigma of Herbert W Armstrong ). Yes, the validity of Herbert's, and all Armstrongite, baptisms depends on the valid authority to baptize by the Hinson Memorial Baptist Church in Portland Oregon.
Uh oh, this is a problem for Armstrongists, if "Sunday keeping" Baptist baptisms aren't valid = then Herbert's baptism wasn't valid = and no Armstrongite who received baptism from the WCG or splinters has a valid baptism = and no one in Armstrongism received the holy spirit. Oops.
On the other hand if "Sunday keeping" Baptist baptisms ARE valid, then that means Armstrongites don't have the monopoly to baptize like they tell everyone they do, and the body of Christ is a much bigger group than the handful of people sitting around listening to prerecorded sermons on Saturdays.
If they are wrong about this one doctrine, what else are they wrong about?
If you haven't already, it's time to evaluate the teachings of these blind leaders of the blind.
15 comments:
But but the waldensians and stuff! You just don't get it. Stop thinking and pay your tithe retard
Still think my baptism at age nine, and I knew what I was getting into: water!!!! - was valid in the Assembly of God church. But of course I was rebaptized and in Herbie's church 14 years, now out over 40 years. ^%#@*&^# I'm getting old.
I was baptized into the WWCG, and when my vile minister told me that I should stop attending services since I did't have the holy spirit, God intervened and made it clear that in fact I do. This articles fails to mention that God uses whatever is available, and will not be restricted by a Sunday keeping Baptist. Plus He chooses His bride, so not all baptisms in the world's denominations means a granting of the holy spirit.
I've told this before, but as an AC student I wanted to be baptized in order to partake of Passover, but I was told, "You can't be baptized because your personality isn't outgoing enough."
Had to wait a year -- personality did not change.
Baptism is a symbolic ritual and public proclamation. It is not the moment the holy spirit is received. It's received when one first believes. Baptist 101.
Is he leaving out the "laying on of hands" part of this?
Commemorative "Jon Brisby Frisbees" available while they last. Gold stamped purple ones, (color of Purple Hymnal) especially made for sabbath usage are $10 extra.
Jon Brisby and Bob Thiel are two of a kind. Liars and blasphemers of God's Word.
"It's received when one first believes. Baptist 101."
Why would anyone get baptized if they didn't believe? There were many people in my congregation that basically abandoned the ten commandments shortly after baptism. Which is scandalous since John the Baptist told his generation to bear fruits of repentance before being granted water baptism. The HWA ministers ignored this criteria for the sake of numbers and tithe payers.
So it's money first, and members salvation comes second. Which is unsurprising since in Herb-land, life is cheap and rights don't exist.
Annon 1119 says, "God uses whatever is available (to baptize)".
This statement reminds me of a Bible study on "Baptism" given by a COG minister years ago.
In making a point on proper baptismal procedure, the minister focused on Acts 9 and Paul's conversion. He pointed out that God used a lay disciple (Ananias) to accomplish His purpose. Then comes a major FAUX-PAS!
He goes on to say, "the Bible clearly shows that lay people can baptize!! But that's not how WE DO IT in the Church of God"!!! In other words, the Bible says one thing but WE do it differently!
When he realised how stupid that sounded he tried to backpeddle out of it, but the damage was done.
Why would anyone get baptized if they didn't believe?
1. Peer pressure.
2. "That's what all my friends and family are doing."
3. Desire for an easy job with your church.
4. Desire for the prestige of a ministerial ordination/hire.
5. Desire to marry in a church that won't marry the unbaptized.
There are more reasons, but that's a start.
Because Armstrongism made baptism the mark of submission to THEIR authority and THEIR unique gospel. Yes even now Jon won't baptize someone without making sure they accept all the unique doctrines first. It's not about accepting Jesus Christ as your personal savior and symbolically and publicly depicting the washing away of sins, death burial and resurrection and a new birth into newness of life. No, a cog authorized baptism is a rite of passage on your journey to being accepted, and accountable to their lake of fire. And they believe that you don't receive the spirit until one of their crack pot cult leaders lays his heresy hands on you. All the hand shaking and authoritative tone is to make you believe something magical is happening, but it's really just a tithe tit sucker playing prophet, initiating another tithe payer into the fold of fearful suckers.
Consider the motivational force of fear. Fear to look outside the box that has been created for you, can produce apathy. When apathy sets in, the perpetrator of your fear then has decades of time in which to do his dirty work. Who checks the details then? The only time I have ever known anyone to begin to wake up, is when they are knocked off dead center. In the meantime your salvation, the place you fellowship, who you fellowship with, how much you tithe, what you can say and not say, wear and not wear, and so many other things will be given to you by the perpetrator. Now you have become an apathetic robot unwilling to compare scripture to a man's word. Over time you will suffocate spiritually, and that is exactly what the enemy wants. Sorry, but I speak from experience, as I to was once a product off the Brisby assembly line. Do yourself a favor and become a Berean. God will support you in that endeavor.
I first found out about HWA's baptism by a Sunday keeping religious minister without laying on of hands after reading this article www.isitso.org/guide/hwaord.html more than a decade ago now. It made me study the subject of baptism and laying on of hands further. I now believe that God gives His Holy Spirit to anyone He wills irrespective of whether they get baptized with/without laying on of hands. HWA's dogma that one had to be baptized with laying on of hands by a Sabbath keeping religious minister (predominantly meaning His own WCG ministers) and the fact that he hadn't been baptized with either was only just one more proof against him and much of his ministry.
Suffice to say I got baptized by an ex-WCG minister around the same time (10 years ago now) with laying on of hands at a beach on during the FOT. It was a day I will never forget and am thankful to God for since the UCG minister who was "counseling" me at the time suggested it takes quite a while before a new member is approved for baptism.
quit getting hung up on the details, what matters is that you are OBEDIENT to god's chosen ministers. know your place. Just trust that the minister IS Jesus come, and Jesus was half man after all, hes gonna make some mistakes from time to time. Just follow and be lead, if your minister is wrong, God will fix it eventually. Just stay, pray, pay. It'll be fine. See ya in Petra. Next year is my 4th tithe year, so excited!
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