"Religion is the unbiblical idea that our performance earns us a higher standing with God than we would have otherwise enjoyed. Religion proposes that humans control their relationship with God on the basis of their attempts to be good and their abstinence from evil behavior."
In the world of religion, thinking can land you in hot water. No doubt about it. So why should I encourage you to think about religious stuff? [Remember: Religion is the unbiblical idea that our performance earns us a higher standing with God than we would have otherwise enjoyed. Religion proposes that humans control their relationship with God on the basis of their attempts to be good and their abstinence from evil behavior.]
One thing Armstrongism was good at was encouraging members not to think or question. Daring to question meant you were thinking deeply about a subject and the church could not have that happening. That is another reason why church "government" was shoved down our throats and still is today in the more aberrant COG's like the Restored Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, and the improperly named "continuing" Church of "god".
Failing to think within a religious context is what religion counts on to enslave its followers to its edicts, dogmas and traditions, as compared with the gospel of Jesus Christ. “Bad news religion” would lose a lot of its business if most religious folks just started to think. That’s something worth praying about.
Daring to think and question held the minister or church leader accountable and we all know how that worked! DISFELLOWHIPMENT!
Church: A Place to Suspend Critical Thinking?
Many people go to church for prepackaged and even predigested answers. Nothing wrong with answers, but have you carefully considered the teaching ministry of Jesus? He seemed to raise far more questions than answers, and he often didn’t even directly answer questions he was asked.
Armstrongism has made an industry of maligning and ridiculing Christians and other people of faith for swallowing everything they are told by their faith leaders. That's why the church then and now continues to call Christians "so-called", "deceived", "the blind following the blind" and many more words to ridicule and characterize non-COG people as less-than compared to the enlightened true believers.
Does Jesus want us to think? Of course he does. Does he want us to carefully consider the claims of Christ-less religion? You bet he does—just read Matthew 23 sometime. Many otherwise sound minded and rational people regularly check their brains at the door of their place of worship. At most other times, these same people balance their check books, drive within the speed limit (almost anyway) and are able to engage in normal conversations with others.
But when some enter into a place of worship, they willingly suspend critical thinking, and in effect seem to say to religious professionals, “Here I am—spiritual silly putty. Crank up the atmosphere, mesmerize me, place me in an altered state of consciousness, make me feel good—take me to any emotional destination you wish. I’m here to be entertained and escape the real world. I’m not going to think—I’m just going to emotionally react.”
Critical thinking was never encouraged in the COG movement. That is why we had hundreds and hundreds of booklets, letters, articles, magazines, and broadcasts. They were there to spoon-feed members so that they never had to question anything. The answer was a short literature request or an article away.
In the name of God and Christianity, millions within the world of Christendom sit in cathedrals, sanctuaries and warehouse-like mega-churches and blindly allow religious authorities to tell them what the Bible really means. You see, according to some religious authorities, the Bible doesn’t mean what it appears to. That’s assuming the Bible even makes it into the sermon, for in some religious environments people are assured that their religious leader has transcended that silly old book, and under his or her leadership and teaching they too can leave the Bible behind.
Armstrongism is not the only one who does this. It happens in a lot of Christianity. People like to look to authority figures as having all the answers. It makes them feel safe and secure in a crazy world. Not having the answers or realizing that you do NOT need an answer to everything is a dangerous place to be for some.
Millions not only accept anything their religious authority tells them about the Bible, but then they allow that authority to tell them what to do and when to do it—and what kind of look to have on their face while they’re doing it.
Look at Dave Pack's followers, Gerald Flurry's, and Bob Thiel's; their followers blindly follow everything they say, unquestionably.
Institutionalized religion is primarily concerned with teaching its followers creeds to memorize, believe and recite. Religion has its prayer and hymn books and its study Bibles so that its followers will toe the party line.
“I’m Better Than You Are!
Just in case I haven’t ruffled enough feathers already (how in the world am I going to encourage you to think if I don’t challenge you?) let’s discuss one of the most illogical of all core religious beliefs. The average religious person assumes (because they have been deceived by religion) that they are better than other average religious persons. Religious folks sit in church and think: “Oh the Methodists or Lutherans down the street. You know, they’re nice people. But they are so messed up. They don’t get it…not like I do.”
"Oh, the Living Church of God people are deceived because they refused to listen to me." Bob Thiel.
Restored Church of God people are better than Philadelphia Church of God people. Living Church of God is better than United Church of God. COGWA is better than the United Church of God. Philadelphia Church of God is better than ALL Churches of God. The silly list can go on and on.
There is, of course, no biblical rationale for such a silly, nonsensical conclusion. In fact, it’s so arrogant and unbiblical that while many churches covertly teach that they are better, have “more truth” or are more “spirit-led” (because, after all, such lofty “truth-claims” are one of the main ways to keep folks coming back) they have long-winded, carefully written statements to say that they don’t actually teach what they have carefully indoctrinated their members to fervently believe.
How do you arrive at the conclusion that you are religiously superior by studying the Bible? You don’t. How do you come to such a conclusion if Jesus is living his life within you? You don’t. You need religious propaganda/brainwashing to seduce you into accepting such a conclusion. You need religious stuff that nullifies Jesus’ selfless life of the Spirit to believe such a preposterous conviction.
If the mind of Jesus (Philippians 2:5) guides our thinking, we can conquer such religiously induced beliefs, so that we won’t look at another person and say, “Oh, I would never do that! Look at where she has a tattoo. I would like to pay attention as I sit here in this brick-and-mortar church, but my eyes are glued on her tattoo. I might get a tattoo, but not there! I might have a discreet earring, but all that metal hanging from my nose, lips or eyebrow? No, I would never do that.”
We will always see ourselves as better than most folks, that’s natural. But along comes religion and gives us a huge boost—now we think we are not only better, we actually believe we are spiritually superior.
Armstrongism blew this concept out of the park. Armstrongims was better than all of Christianity combined and its members better than anyone in the last 2,000 years. After all, they are going to be kings and priests, gods and goddesses in their mythical kingdom to come.
Think of a religious fast food emporium—there we are, lined up in the religious drive-through, waiting for our “God-fix,” and when we get up to the window (and remember, I’m talking about the idea that God is so impressed with what we do that we can actually cause him to love us more because of all the religious rituals we perform) religion asks us if we want to supersize our natural pride. Of course we do!
Don’t you want to be convinced that you are better than the average religious Joe? Of course! And there are many churches just waiting to accommodate you. When we are religiously super-sized, we come away thinking we are better than everyone else—we are the only, the chosen, the best, the called—the select.
Look at how well this worked for Bob Thiel. Living Church of God REFUSED to change any of their understandings to fit what Bob imagined was true. They actually laughed and made fun of Bob when he tried this.
Unique in Christ
All of this spiritual pride is a clever counterfeit, because God actually does supersize us. But when God makes us better he tells us that we can be special to God only because of his grace. He tells us that there is only One who is unique—Jesus (John 1:16). If Jesus lives his risen life within us, we become God’s very own children. How much more super-sized can you get than that?
Damn it! There is that epitaph that COG members cannot stand - grace. In many COG members' eyes, this is a license to sin and do whatever ever want. That nonsense shows just how well the indoctrination of the COG was in maligning this topic.
God consistently tells us that he sees us as special only because of his grace—only because of the cross of Jesus. We are not better because of the things we do and don’t do, because of the real-estate-located church we attend or the ones we would never attend—we are special to God only because of Jesus.
The message of the resurrection of our Lord is an invitation to sit up and think. He won the victory over death and the grave. He is risen. He triumphs over all powers, principalities, rules and religions. He alone is worthy of our worship. He invites us to come to him, to examine the promises he gives, to live the life he will lead within us.
The Church of God leaves Jesus dead on the cross in the high school gym or Masonic Lodge hall when Passover is done. He stays there till the following year. The resurrection only tends to be acknowledged when it comes to encouraging the divine healing of members.
He does not encourage superstitious, emotional knee-jerk reactions to his resurrection, but thoughtful and careful consideration of the difference he will make in your life. Read what he told the two men on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35).
Let us shed the silliness and legalism of Christ-less religion. Let us come to the Lord of our lives, who lives that we might live. Let us come to the freedom he offers us, freedom from religion, freedom for a life of service to him. He is risen! It’s a fact—think about it. WARNING: THINKING MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR RELIGION
30 comments:
I see that Bwana Bob's website is announcing the death of Prophet Maker Gaylyn Bonjour.
Now we can expect Bob's usual deceptive delusionary tactics to begin. Do you remember how Dibar Apartian never defended Bob publicly while he was alive, yet as soon as he died Bob was full of tales about how old Dibar had encouraged him in his prophethood and how Bob had long recognized that the "mantle" left Rod Meredith years ago and went to Dibar before Dibar died and left the mantle to Bob?
With Gaylyn Bonjour no longer able to defend himself or contradict Bob's imagined excesses, how long will it be before Bob reveals how the man who anointed him with a double-portion of Prophet Juju actually supported Bob all along?
It should worry Bob that his strongest supporters are dead people. But when you put your faith in dreams and witch doctors, I guess this is understandable.
The next time Bob needs prophetic inspiration, he might consult his witch doctor in Africa to conjure up Bonjour just as Saul did with Samuel.
"Thinking" over the years has always gotten me in trouble. Why? I think the answer can be found here- Good News April 1979- In HWA's personal, we read ...
"I have said through the years, over the air and in print and before audiences, 'don't believe me because I say it - look in your own Bible and believe what you find there.!'
"But I DO NOT- or, at least, SHOULD NOT HAVE ever said that to our own brethren!"
This hit me hard at the time, and has stuck with me ever since.
It was a common teaching by WWCG ministers that once a person had proved that theirs was the one true church, that they should hence forth believe what ever the minister said. Why claim this unless they knew that they were Pharisaic?
I recently read a comment by a Calvanist stating that he was told by his minister to only read their literature, and ignore the bible. Most denomination do this covertly. Their literature comes first, and the bible is the handmaid to their doctrines.
Now that Gaylyn Bonjour has passed, Booby is going to claim that he secretly made Thiel POPE , a secret he can now reveal with the passing.
The naked pastor hates all churches and perhaps all religion. It seems odd that people who promote Jesus would repeatedly cite the naked pastor.
People are idiots who never really check things out. According to chemists, there is 1000 times as much cyanide in the delousing room as there is in the so-called "gas" chamber. What a friggin farce.
7:26. That has to be the dumbest and most misinformed comment on here today.
The answer I got, talking to my minister(s) starting my sentence with “I think..” always was “You don’t understand that”.
Basically telling me that I’m too stupid to understand anything the Bible says. Meanwhile also telling me to study it every possible occasion.
Talking down and telling you what to say, think and how to act is the true sing of cultism.
Also, don't forget to mention that children are forbidden to play any manner of make believe or use excessive imagination. Satanic to the core
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A friend of mine, now an ex Jehovah's Witnesses, said he was kicked out of a Bible study for (of all things) reading the BIBLE!!!!! He was suppose to be concentrating on the study booklet.
"Now there you go again" (using my best Ronald Reagan voice)
Trying to lump the Church in with the false teachers out there.
@ 7:58 PM & 7:26 PM.
At Auschwitz, the Nazis tried to destroy the evidence of their crimes by blowing up a couple of the crematoria and gas chambers, which were rebuilt after the war to bear evidence of the horrible atrocities committed there. It stands to reason that there would be less cyanide in a reconstructed gas chamber than in one that had actually operated while masses of people were being killed.
Nazi sympathizers like 7:26 PM will say whatever suits their cause. On the one hand, "Those aren't the actual WWII gas chambers, which proves the Holocaust didn't really happen!" But on the other hand, "There's more cyanide in the delousing room than in the gas chambers, never mind that those 'gas chambers' are reconstructions that never actually killed anybody!" A thinking person can't have it both ways. But idiot anti-Semites try hard to do just that.
Greg Albrecht hits on a valid point but it does not take into consideration the sociology of the denominations. First, there is the problem of nominalism. Many people who attend denominational congregations could be classed as nominal. I don't know what the numbers are. But there are many people who merely identify with a church in the same way they might identify with a sports team. They like that us-them business.
One cannot equate the Body of Christ with the large crowd of nominals that show up at services weekly. This is not a popular observation because it smacks of judgmentalism. Sorry. It also happens to be a dynamic that affects any assessment that anyone, anywhere wants to make about the church.
What I am saying is that many people don't go to church to do critical thinking. They go to church to support their personal belief they are on the right side of the us-them relationship. They go to that denomination because it's a family tradition. They go to that church beccause their girlfriend does. You know the deal. They do not go to church because it is a useful piece of infrastructure in pursuing The Way. Church is not for them a means but an end.
At the same time, there are usually a few people in the congregation that walk in The Way. It may take a while to discover who they are. It may or may not incude the ministry. The nominals may regard them as odd - holy joes - on nobody's short list.
Ranger
I disagree with the premise of this.
Mainstream churches put young people through things like "confirmation" classes and church schools, where their doctrines are funneled in with no real examination of alternative views or difficult verSes.
When I started attending WCG, I told people it was a church that actually CHALLENGED me to think - especially about what the Bible really says. (But I admit very few people agreed with me on that.)
So a search for "think" on the HWA searchable library, and you'll find the word comes up thousands of times.
I conclude ALL church groups want you to "think." But think their way.
Whenever I see a post like this, I ask myself, what can I contribute which would help wake up Armstrongites?
The problem is, they've lived years or decades of their lives accepting that the church does their thinking for them, and believing that that is a good thing because God is closer to the leaders and works through them. The fact that there is a history of erroneous decisions, and harmful, inaccurate information associated with Armstrongism does not faze these people, so how could anything we point out or expose make a difference? The nembers are not dissatisfied with their lives. They ignore bad vibes, and guard against bad attitudes, as they have been conditioned to do.
But, this is the international chapter of Armstrongaholics Anonymous, so if those still practicing like to visit, maybe eventually we will rub off on them, and stimulate some objective thinking processes for them. One can only hope.
If they are not offended by your question they say you have a good attitude, but if they don't like your question they will quickly judge you (contrary to their teachings on how to judge) and accuse you of a bad attitude.
If his wife (or a boss, friend or relative) asks the same question, he will forgive her since he has to eat supper that night.
But if it's a lay member he won't cut him the same slack.
Do I see a blatant respect of persons here? (Ja 2:9)
folks, here is a "mantle dream" B. Thiel posts he dreamt in '08 or '09 about who was/is/might be/might have been "the mantle" rather than who was or is the leader at a given time in the once "righteous", "pure", apple-of-God's-eye, "Philadelphian", LCG (before they became the "now Laodicean" LCG)⏳ :
"But before I get to that, let me relate a dream that probably happened in 2008 or 2009." <--(which is while Dibar Apartian was still alive, not passing away till Dec. 8 2010).
"I was about 50 at the time (which essentially makes me an ‘old man’ per Numbers 8:25; cf. John 8:57). At first the dream made little sense".
"In my dream, there seemed to be two parallel lines. The then presiding evangelist of the Living Church of God (LCG) Roderick Meredith was on the top line and I was on the line much below. In the dream, I kept calling up to Dr. Meredith, but he never would respond." <--(if this dream was in '08 or '09 while Mr. Dibar Apartian was alive till Dec. 2010, then wouldn't God likely have considered maybe showing in that dream a 3rd "parallel line" for Dibar Apartian during the RCM/B. Thiel parallel lines rising/lowering/intersecting scenario...thereby helping B. Thiel (& us) clarify what mantle role Mr. Apartian sort of "secretly" held, despite all the LCG doormat loyalists adhering to Rod Meredith's bloated mantle role which was soon to be humanly decided on being disregarded & discarded i.e. formation of CCOG?). "This lack of response made no sense to me during the dream. Then after what seemed to be a long time, the lines crossed with his line dropping and my line going up." <--what line or position might "secret" mantle Dibar Apartian have had somewhere in that dream...did the lines cross onto Dibar somewhere, or ONLY ONTO Bob's "super" line 📏📐.
If Bob can humanly decide when or when not to stay loyal to or to discount Rod Meredith's (or even years prior with Tkach Sr.'s) hierarchical "mantle", then why did or does Bob & the doormat folk place such high regard on adhering to all these hierachical top leaders that eventually become disregarded & dismissed from hierarchy anyway?
Bob got "the mantle" from a place (LCG) which likely was NEVER the mantle itself. Why didn't Gaylyn Bonjour practice COG separately from LCG before participating in a "mantle transfer" from LCG to CCOG? If Mr. Bonjour were to "forsake assembling together" with the increasingly corrupt LCG, wouldn't he have then been actually suitable to participate in a mantle transfer?
"On October 3, 2008 when Dr. Roderick C. Meredith (Presiding Evangelist of the Living Church of God) called me and said to me, “God may consider you to be a prophet.” Dr . Meredith and I discussed this in depth as Dr. Meredith was the one who brought the topic up."<--who cares what a bumbling Rod Meredith thinks he assumes to know about what God may or may not be considering?
"The conversation with Dr. Meredith weighed on my mind, so I asked Dibar Apartian (who was the Feast site coordinator) and Dr. Jeff Fall (who was my pastor then, and who also attended there that year) to meet with me before services one morning. I told both of them about the conversation with Dr. Meredith.
Upon hearing this, Dibar Apartian got upset. He told me that Dr. Meredith did not say such a thing and I assured him that he had.<--HEY, who cares what Rod Meredith non-mantle said?
Why did Bob ever follow Rod M. in the 1st place? Why does Bob expect us to count it as credit that he "trusted" & had "faith in" the curmudgeon bully Rod C. Meredith? When Bob still harps on us to follow his mantle role now, why did Bob get to prove all things regarding J. Tkach Sr. & later, R. Meredith? But if we try to prove all things too such as this Dibar Apartian secret mantle stuff (with RCM still at times supposedly commanding hierarchical church governance allegiance/faith loyalty), suddenly we are an accuser of the brethren, but Bob wasn't?
Thinking for yourself will absolutely land you in hot water. Why do you think the two big topics discussed at church every Sabbath are your job and the weather?
7.26 pm, I suggest you have a look at the YouTube video "The Germans knew about the Holocaust! - war against humanity 125
Why do you think the two big topics discussed at church every Sabbath are your job and the weather?
I have family in LCG, but don't attend there. A couple of years ago I had occasion to visit Charlotte, so I decided to keep the Sabbath with the LCG brethren. To help the visit go better, I decided to read a couple of their most recent Tomorrow's World and member magazines, and I was happy to find that some of the articles were actually pretty decent. I watched a couple of recent Tomorrow's World TV programs. I was looking forward to discussions with the LCG Charlotte brethren.
My effort failed miserably. It became clear that most of the LCG members at their HQ congregation weren't even reading their own group's literature or watching their TV program. They were much more interested in talking about what was going on in other church groups, and what was going on in national politics, than what their own church was teaching.
Earlier in this thread, 6:50 AM talks about "nominals" in "denominational congregations" but from my experience the same can be said of LCG. And I suspect the same is true of most of the other splinters. People attend for the social connections, not because they want to think deeply about church doctrine and practice.
I would like to know how "deeply" Steven Allwine's & Terry Ratzmann's resonings were for why they attended a COG. I sure wonder who they thought were the "us" & who was the "them". Maybe they attended to resist "Constantinian" traditions or to eat at tasty "pot lucks" (hey that was clever the other day when a contributor here cited COG historic warnings (above and BEYOND 613 MITZVOT) to never say "good luck" but it's fine to serve a "pot-luck")!
Steven Allwine thought God would let a COG person to pull off an O.J. stunt. Then, Stevie thought God would let him keep on "attending"...after orchestrating a vile David/Uriah bump-off albeit substituting the dear Amy filling the un-"fortunate" role of Uriah's part, so to speak...with the naughty Ashley Madison chick & the Backpage.com girlie to be Stevie's "Bathsheba(s)".
Interesting to consider whether attendees think deeply about why they are attendees. (& please don't remind us that we "work out our own salvation". Bob kinda put his foot down on Rod's & Ames's & Weston's & Pack's & Flurry's & HOIWCG's efforts @ working their own particular salvations). So whoever goes to visit Stevie in MN jail shouldn't be so UCG-jolly about Stevie's ability to work out a "salvation". Q. How can a churchman decide to kill his wife?
A. by using O.J. reasoning...by telling the MN police, "it wasn't me" (& then telling God, "it was my OTHER "me" ")
"Nominals"
Well, the words have changed, but high school dropout HWA knew of nominals by a different name. You may recall that name. He called them "Laodiceans".
Forensic you've need to get out more....Deep deep down the rabbit hole went alice....
1:08, I did get out more...we were all out, until your fellow UCG boy you're supporting, Steven Allwine, did his dirty deed in OUR society WE live in around him.
When we see a screwball like him trying to hide behind God before/during/& after killing one of our neighbours, we briefly take time out of our day to chase Stevie back outta HIS rabbit hole. I only went in there to join lots of others who went in to "get him" ⚖️ after what he did to Amy.
Steve A. was in the rabbit hole figuratively like the scraggly gray bearded Saddam Hussein was found by U.S. Forces hiding in a literal rabbit hole, man. Saddam & Steve Allwine got abruptly yanked outta their grungy rabbit holes, we go in to bring them out to justice but we don't stay there. I am "out more".
Your comment reminds me of clods I met when I visited UCG after Allwine's conviction & sentence. When I fellowshipped after services at the UCG, the topic of their boy Steven Allwine came up & I my comments were critical toward Steven. But a doormat-ish UCG guy stuck up for Stevie, saying something about the evidence or all the relevant facts may not have been shown yet. Enough was found though.
You might actually "be" Steven Allwine himself, reading these & responding back here from MN prison social media & internet devices. Or if you are not Steve or from UCG, then you might be from some other libertarian COG that discourages anyone coming down heavy on a brethren-gone-bad.
A few more comments to 7.26 pm
You should see the Youtube videos where they interviewed surviving "Sonderkommandos" Jewish captives forward to pry the corpses out of the gas chambers after each kill session.
Poland's Pre-1939 Jewish population was over 3,000,000. 6 years later, in 1945 ....the British were NOT letting Jews into the Palestine Mandate more than 100,000 per year. Today there are appx. 20,000 Jews left in Poland.
And the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion" was proven a Czarist Police Forgery.
So who isn't checking things out?
1:08 if you want, I can dress up like Alice Cooper of Michigan & I'll sing to you about why I went in the lousy rabbit hole to find rotten Steven Allwine there trying to hide behind God.
On this topic of thinking critically by the holy spirit and the Allwine case, there are some good lessons to learn, similar to the sudden deaths of Ananias and Sapphira when Peter caught wind of their dishonesty. (Acts 5) Tell me, you ministers, who repeatedly judge incorrectly, was Peter guilty of murdering them? If he wasn't, why do you constantly disrespect and get offended at the truth when it is presented to you from a lowly brother? If you think lay members are spouting off lies, then investigate (as Peter did) and stop playing the one-man-judge-and-jury game.
I commented on the Allwine case a while ago and remember that it was before the murder took place that the police were investigating the possiblity that Amy was under a death threat. (Presumably Amy at least told the church about it) Now if that was the case, WHY DIDN'T THE CHURCH ELDERS AND MEMBERS WAKE UP, AND PRAY AND FAST ABOUT IT? You've got a trumpet, right? Well then use it and don't leave your members fogged out, ignorant, talking in secret, ho-humming, dozing off and deluded! Otherwise the blood is on your hands. (And you're not scoring any brownie points with God by having pity on the killer who was also convicted of adultery. Adultery alone excludes you from the church, as per 1 Cor 5:11; 6:9-10)
What? Is life cheap and just a game for you people, with the end approaching?
Our deeds and lives are judged by the Word of God, not by our own sentiments or opinions.
One of my “favorite” things about the topic of thinking inside LCG is the automatic unquestionable “truth” that those “above” others in the hierarchy automatically know more than those “below” them. They are very shallow in their understanding of much of the world yet purport to have deep wisdom and understanding about almost everything. They talk about truth, but the truth is that they are old and slow in their thinking. Really how is somebody that went to ambassador then into the field without any other experience going to offer quality advice on how to navigate the world when all they have had to do is kiss the right butt for 40-60 plus years?
Somebody let a Jackalope loose in here???
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