Tuesday, January 9, 2024

Always Remember, God Has Delayed The Endtimes Because It Is Your Fault!

 

For decades Church of God members have been blamed for all kinds of issues in the church and with the failure of the predictions by self-appointed prophecy addicts.

One of the most appalling examples of this was when church members were blamed for Loma Armstrong's death. Her constipation/blockage of the bowel could have easily been remedied but it was not. It was the perfect opportunity for Herbert Armstrong to blame the church members for it. I remember the Saturday at check when all of the congregation was told to get on their knees and pray for forgiveness and for the healing of Loma. With the hard-heartedness of the members and refusal to follow all of the dictates of Herbert the church was blocking God from doing a mighty work through the church.

When Herbert's failed predictions in 1971, 1972, and 1975 made a complete mockery of him, he and the church turned around and blamed it on the members. The church wasn't ready for God to do his work through them. Too much sin and corruption filled the hearts of members, but never the elites in Pasadena, but the slovenly members.

Each successive year now members get blamed for all the failures of the false prophets of Armstrongism. If only the members would get their act together and God could complete his plan.

The Kitchen clan had this up the other day. Note: Dwight Viehe was not a shining example of godliness.

The following transcript was of a sermonette that was given on June 25, 1985 by Mr. Dwight Viehe in the Pasadena PM Services, the transcript was published in Mr. Armstrong's Coworker letter Aug 25, 1985.
" I brought with me this afternoon a recent member and co-worker letter from Mr. Armstrong. I'm sure most of you will recall this one. You should. He began by telling us how we are helping fulfill Bible prophecy. It goes on to explain how there is indeed a purpose being worked out here below, and that the events working out that purpose of God are recorded in the history of the past, and the prophecy of the present and the future in the Bible.
A few paragraphs below that he mentions how, right now, it seems that God has been holding events in the world back.
Mr. Armstrong says: "We had expected the Great Tribulation to come before now. Why the delay? Surely it seems God has held the winds of terrorism and the Great Tribulation back to allow time" for the preaching of the Gospel message as a witness unto all nations "in a more complete way." And then Mr. Armstrong concludes the paragraph: "Perhaps we ourselves have been holding the march of events up."
Mr. Armstrong has mentioned that before. I've heard him mention it several times. And each time I pondered that thought, but then something else would get on my mind and I would soon forget it. But this time I decided to think a little more deeply, because it's an incredible, awesome thought that it is possible for God's chosen people, his called-out ones, spiritual Israel, to actually alter the divine agenda of the Almighty God. Let us look at an example. In Acts 13 Paul is giving what has been said to be his first sermon. Beginning in verse 14: "... when they [he and Barnabasl departed from Perga, they came to Antioch in Pisidia, and went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and sat down. And after the reading of the law and the prophets the rulers of the synagogue sent unto them, saying, Ye men and brethren, if ye have any word of exhortation [or earnest urgings] for the people, say on."
Speak up. What an invitation, because Paul, being Paul, stood up, and he said, Well, as a matter of fact, I do. It says then he, "... beckoning with his hand said, Men of Israel, and ye that fear God, give audience. The God of this people of Israel chose our fathers, and exalted the people when they dwelt as strangers in the land of Egypt, and with an high arm brought he them out of it." In this passage I want you to notice that Paul always bases his ministry on the plan of God. Verse 17 talks about how God has chosen a people for the outworking of his purpose. He brought them out of Egypt by many wonderful, powerful miracles and he began guiding them and teaching them in the way they should live their lives. In other words, teaching them how to be in the world but not of the world. A large portion of scripture is devoted to the recounting of the way in which God labored to prepare his chosen people for his plan, for his purpose.
We never want to forget that God has a purpose being worked out here below, that he has a plan. We need to remember that God calls a people to himself for the working out of his purposes. He always has. And God has predestined a people to himself in this end time to be the very basis of his divine work on earth. For that people to be effective, they must be a people who are convinced of his plan, who are solidly committed to and supporting that plan, and who are diligently preparing themselves for the very next step in that plan. And it also must be a people who are fully convinced that God is totally and utterly able to carry out the entirety of that plan and purpose to the nth degree.
Through God's Church we've come to understand that God brought ancient Israel out of Egypt, a type of sin, to make of them a society to show other people how to live. So today he is calling his Church, spiritual Israel, out of this world, to show and to teach people ultimately how to live in God's kingdom. God led ancient Israel through Moses teaching them, preparing them, showing them his way. So God today is leading us through his apostle for the working out of his purposes. And just as his purpose was rooted in ancient Israel then, so is it rooted in us today.

Yeah, right. When every single Church of God today sees itself as the ONE TRUE CHURCH above all together COG's and self-appointed morons like Bob Thiel set themselves up as the ONE TRUE COG leader, it is plainly obvious that the Church of God movement has never taught anyone in the world how to live in unity in preparation for God's Kingdom. What a farce the COG has become. 

It's very important that we understand this duality. God began his purpose from the day he breathed air into the lungs of Adam. And of course, he continues that work today right through his Church, the Body of Christ. As long as we can keep this clearly in mind -- that we are the ones whom God has called out and through whom God is working out his purpose in this world today-- then we're less likely to let the world get to us with its message of permissiveness, because we're so wrapped up with and committed to the task of getting God's message to the world. When we lose sight of the purpose, then we begin to get ourselves into all kinds of trouble.

The CHurches of God lost sight of God from the day Herbert Armstrong apostatized in rebellion from the Church of God 7th Day. Rebellion and false teachings reigned supreme and still do to this day.

Paul was quick to point up the plan and the purpose that God is working out through his chosen people. But now I want you to notice something else, the second thing that he speaks on, which concerns the patience of God. Look at verse 18. "And about the time of forty years suffered he their manners in the wilderness." Now this concerns the tremendous patience of God. Any of you who may have young children and had guests over to eat with you can understand what this statement means: suffering their manners. [Laughter] Because it seems that young children want to slurp their soup, and put their elbows on the table, and perhaps eat with their fingers when there are guests. They assume if there are guests you won't correct them, and so they can go ahead and do what they would like to do and somehow get away with it. That is, of course, unless it's my house. And as we have guests quite often, we go right ahead and correct them. I believe I have seen some fruits of consistency taking place lately. But we suffer their manners, so to speak, in many different ways. And that seems to be what God had done with the children of Israel, suffered their manners. The New King James Version reads: "put up with their ways" for 40 years. When the time came to bring the descendants of Israel out of Egypt, God prepared the human leader, and he brought them out with a high hand. But I don't believe that he intended it to take 40 years to get them into the land of promise.
Israel left Egypt on Passover and arrived at Mount Sinai and received the law at Pentecost. Conceivably they could have gone right ahead and taken the land of promise on the Day of Trumpets, and perhaps enjoyed the Feast of Tabernacles with the abundance of the harvest. If not in that one year, surely leisurely, the next. But 40 long years God patiently waited to get on with his plan. Let's look at Psalm 78 and get another view of this. In Psalm 78 David had been recounting all the mighty miracles of God in bringing the children of Israel out of Egypt, and all the mighty miracles in preserving them in the wilderness. He says, verse 32: "For all this they sinned still, and believed not for his wondrous works. [They kept forgetting the mighty, powerful workings of God.] Therefore [listen to this] their days did he consume in vanity, and their years in trouble." And the New King James Version says, "their days He consumed in futility." Forty years of futility. Forty years Israel went around and around in that wilderness, getting deeper and deeper in their groove, accomplishing nothing.
Then in verse 41, "Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Incredible. Limited the Holy One of Israel. They did not remember his power.
I thought how Mr. Armstrong recently has reminded us of that time during the '70s when men whom he had put in charge of the day- to-day affairs here at Pasadena began to liberalize the sound doctrine of God's Church. Men who lost sight of God's purpose and began to let the world get to them rather than them getting to the world with God's message, and began to water down his doctrine, did not believe his wondrous works, his almighty works, his great miracles, the miracle-working power of God who heals, the miracle- working power of a God who's able to work in the minds of people whom he would call, and open their minds, and give them an intellectual awakening by the power of his Spirit to understand things that they could never understand before. I believe they limited the Holy One of Israel. As a result, God removed his blessings. We can honestly say that God consumed their days in futility, because, during that period, for the first time in the history of God's Church in this era, there was negative growth.

The church was rotten to the core and it was never any "liberals" that caused it. If anything, it was the hardcore hardliners that made life miserable in the church and still do today. The present COG's are impotent, including Bob Thiel's group. No one cares what these guys say anymore.

Can a group of little human beings stop an Almighty God from doing what he wants to do? No! No, God's purposes will stand. But can a group of little human beings alter the time agenda for God doing what he wants to do? The Bible speaks loudly that it can, especially when his time frame involves their faith, and their cooperation, and their commitment. We're told that ancient Israel limited the Holy One of Israel, and therefore their days He consumed in futility. God's work was hindered; not stopped, but slowed down. Plan A shattered. Plan B came into effect. And you know it's a grievous thought, a sad thought, to think that a people that could be enjoying the tremendous blessings of the promised land were not, and instead were still wandering around in the wilderness.
Of course, that's the lesson. That's the lesson that came home loud and clear to me. And that is why we should indeed be very, very thankful for the plan and purpose of God, and that we've been given the knowledge of it. And why we should indeed be very thankful and grateful for the incredible patience of God. We dare not presume upon that patience.
With that thought in mind, I'm overwhelmed again with how thankful that we should be that God has brought his apostle back to put God's Church back on the track of faith, back on the track of repentance, and back on the track of doing the will of God so that we can do the work of God by the power of God. Thankful that he's exhorted us to come out of this world and be separate from it so God can restore his blessings to the Church and thereby we can get the message to the world and thereby bring to fulfillment man's only hope for salvation, for peace, for joy.

The Church never was on track so it is pretty hard to get it back on the right track. When has the leadership of any COG repented? When has Pack, Flurry, Weston, Thiel, and Weinland repented? 

And very thankfully God's Church is again moving forward with great power. The statistics are amazing. God has again restored his blessings. We need to make sure that we're growing with it and we need to make sure that our spiritual statistics are improving. We need so to commit ourselves that it never again need be written in the annals of church history, or even alluded to, that they limited the Holy One of Israel. But rather, let it be said that by their faith and obedience, and by their commitment and zeal, they hastened the day of his coming."

Faith and obedience have never been a hallmark of the church. Rebellion and apostasy have. Heretical doctrines have destroyed members' lives. Abusive apostles, pastor generals, chief overseers, evangelists, and more have wreaked havoc for decades. 

Since church members have been made out to be that powerful, perhaps it is time to start wearing that mantle proudly!

23 comments:

Anonymous said...

The church growth went negative when the church leadership went full Borg. It was only when there was a easing up on the tyranny that membership started to increase again. In practice this didn't mean that members rights were finally respected, but rather that members were given more permission slips that ministers could revoke at whim. Hence today's Borg-light church culture.

Truth said...

This is still the case. Jon Brisby of COGE says something similar in that God is not ready to grow their church because of its members failures in preparing themselves through overcoming, etc... There is not a man out there who will take responsibility for his leadership failures. It will always be someone or something else, but not them.

Anonymous said...

Successful leadership is not sustainable if you have the wrong message.

HWA and his successors combined world conditions with math equations to determine the timing of "the end." When the equations turned out to be inaccurate, instead of blaming himself, he blamed his followers. Anyone who would accept such an explanation or rationalization has a weak mind, and deserves whatever happens to them.

Saul did set an example of blaming "the people". Odd that none of the COGlodytes connects with that parallel.

Anonymous said...

God is a bad planner. He should have had all this figured out 500 or 5000 years ago. It's his fault. If it takes so long to finish the work, why did he wait so long to start it? He should have started with Herb's grandfather.

Anonymous said...

The Bible states explicitly why Christ did not return as expected. Peter spoke about this to some Jews in Jerusalem:

Repent therefore, and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Messiah appointed for you, that is, Jesus, who must remain in heaven until the time of universal restoration (apokatastasis) that God announced long ago through his holy prophets. (Acts 3:19-21, NRSV)

Also:

“Since all these things are thus to be dissolved, what sort of people ought you to be in lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for the coming of the day of God” (2 Pet 3.11-12).

These two cases condition the timing of the Parousia. In the first passage, Peter points to the lack of response of the Jews to the Gospel. In the second passage, Peter speaks to the conduct of the members of the Ecclesia. The responses of both groups have an impact on the timing of the Return of Jesus. This also indicates that the timing of the Parousia is dependent on other factors besides time cycles and calendrical calculations. My guess is that Peter knew well before 70 AD that Jesus would not return at that time based on what he expresses in these two passages. In these modern times, it is a stretch to believe that the conduct of a small denomination of latter day Millerites, largely outside the Body of Christ theologically, would somehow rise to the level of delaying the Return of Jesus.

Refer to:
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2021/01/why-christ-has-not-returned.html

Ranger

Anonymous said...

7:40 Addendum

In my previous comment, 2 Peter 3:11-12 did not get copied correctly. I am sure it seemed mysterious as to why I even included it. Here is the NRSV translation:

"Since all these things are to be destroyed in this way, what sort of persons ought you to be in leading lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God..."

The focus is on the term "hastening." This seems to say that church members may exhibit behavior that will hasten (or perhaps impede if the wrong behavior) the Parousia. The fact that it refers to the Parousia may be gotten from context.

Speudos can also be translated as "to eagerly desire", so it leaves this scripture with an alternate meaning that does not imply speeding the logistical arrival of Jesus. But it is similar in principle to Acts 3:19-21. In any event I would not alter the conclusion that I wrote.

Ranger

Anonymous said...

I did not rub my hands with glee over the coming of the Germans, the enslavement of the USA, and the tribulation. As a WCG member during the classic era, I had believed HWA's interpretation of prophecy, and was sctually filled with anxiety over it, but seriously and fervently hoped that it would never come to pass during my lifetime. Obviously, I loved my "unconverted" relatives, and cared grestly for my friends at school and work, and my neighbors. Plus, probably selfishly, I wanted to live my life.

Did others react in the same way? Was it a general church vibe, and Is this what Herbie was picking up on? I don't see any Biblical example of chosen people successfully wishing prophecy away. I strongly believe that, unbeknown to us, it was all a bunch of Deut. 18:22 hooey. Had HWA been truly "of God" and inspired, our wishes would not have influenced the final outcome. Only the national repentence of the USA would have accomplished that!

Tonto said...

2 Peter 3:9 says that the Lord is waiting so that more people can come to repentance...

"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward [a]us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance."

Anonymous said...

I'll stay with calendrical calculations as to the timing of the second coming. To eagerly desire - 2Peter 3:12 - would not have an impact on the timing. Jesus remains in heaven until the time of restoration, the timing being determined by God long ago and not based on human activity.

Anonymous said...

10:23

Your viewpoint ignores the words of Peter in 2 Peter 3 and aligns with all of the calendar weenies who believe they are going to compute the date of the Parousia. One wonders why. Why do they want to compute something that Christ carefully concealed. Isn't there a strong note of rebellion sounded in this caucophony?

Peter wrote in this same passage in 2 Peter 3:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night"

No matter how you may interpret this extraordinarily important milestone, it is clear that nobody is going to calculate this date or any other dependent dates.

Also, in 3:9 we have this statement by Peter:

"The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance."

God's "longsuffering" introduces a non-calculable factor in the scenario leading up to the Parousia. To all the calculators, computers, quantitative weenies, cycle watchers, celestial body observers, symbologists and Compendium fans: It did not work in 1844 and it will not work now.

Ranger

Anonymous said...

I'm old and the holy spirit has informed me that I will live to see the tribulation.
So the second coming can't be 50 or more years as some here have speculated.

Anonymous said...

I'm sure the next era of the internet COG will have a website that will shake the world!!!! Maybe a floating rotating gif of a Basil Wolverton scene of flesh melting off bodies, and a cool fire background. The church also needs a minor celebrity on TikTok doing some viral marketing.

Perhaps a Flurry child will go viral with some Riverdance and that will proceed the gun lap!

Or .. Maybe Dave Pack will have an MTV cribs style opening where he shows off his house and where all those common tithes are going.

Bob Thiel could go full anti-vaxxer and pitch his health remedies from his holistic store along with the power of prayer.

There are so many dupes and rubes out there..

You can Make America Godly Again (MAGA)... Have everyone where red hats and preach a return to the founding values of COG dom.



The good news is though ... The kids are too smart for this bullshit.. They don't want to be held captive in basements, masonic lodges, and rented hotel rooms hearing the same old nonsense. Here's a warning to the COG world.. Get out while you still can!

Anonymous said...

Christ just asked , will He really find faith on earth at the time of His second coming.

All COG members here is, it’s the laodicean era all across splinterdom. Over and over again. These leaders want so desperately for Christ to come during their lifetime. They want to be in that number, so to speak.

Anonymous said...

2030 is the new 1972. Funny how this blog avoids mocking that ideology that is gripping many in the splinter groups.

Anonymous said...

Apostasia and Parousia

2 Th 2:1 ...the coming [parousia] of our Lord Jesus Christ...
2 Th 2:3 ... will not come until the rebellion [apostasia] occurs AND the man of lawlessness is revealed

“The Day not only will be preceded by certain events, but also the events surrounding it will simply be too visible for any ... to miss it when it comes” (Gordon D. Fee, The First and Second Letters to the Thessalonians, NICNT, pp.269-70).

Paul “begins with a reminder about what must take place “FIRST,” namely, “the rebellion,” WHICH INCLUDES “the revelation of the man of lawlessness” (Gordon D. Fee, ibid., p.280).

2 Thess 2:3 ... It cannot happen until the Great Revolt has taken place and there has appeared the wicked One, the lost One (NJB).

“He will be in the world before he emerges into public view. But only when he is revealed (3b) will the rebellion break out” (John R.W. Stott, The Message of Thessalonians, BST, p,158).

2 Th 2:1 ... THE COMING (PAROUSIA) OF OUR LORD JESUS CHRIST, and our GATHERING TOGETHER [EPISUNAGOGE, noun] unto him,

Mt 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying ... and what shall be the sign of THY COMING [PAROUSIA], and of the end of the world?
Mt 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall GATHER TOGETHER [EPISUNAGO, verb] his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

“Thus to summarize the key elements ... Paul lays out a clear sequence of events. First comes the “rebellion” and the appearance of “the man of lawlessness,” and then the return (parousia) of the genuine Christ and the gathering up of believers to be with him” (Michael W. Holmes, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, NIVAC, p.238).

“The two nouns, coming (parousia) ... and being gathered together (episynagoge) are governed by the one article and are thus depicted as the one (complex) event... those who use this verse to make a distinction between the time of the so-called Rapture of the saints and the Parousia, do so in defiance of the syntax” (David J. Williams, 1 and 2 Thessalonians, NIBC, p.122).

1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.

“For some readers, a number of questions may well arise at this point. For example, doesn’t Paul says here contradict 1 Thessalonians 5:2, where he wrote that “the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night”? (Michael W. Holmes, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, NIVAC, p.238).

1Th 5:3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.
1Th 5:4 BUT YOU, BROTHERS, ARE NOT IN DARKNESS SO THAT THIS DAY SHOULD SURPRISE YOU LIKE A THIEF.

“Not at all, Paul wrote that the day of the Lord will “come like a thief’ ONLY for unbelievers (cf. 5:3). Believers, he writes, “are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief” (5:4)...” (Michael W. Holmes, 1 & 2 Thessalonians, NIVAC, pp.238-39).

At the beginning of the Antichrist’s prophetic week he will confirm a covenant with the Jews to build a Temple; this may include animals sacrifices, but they may start earlier.

Rev 5:6 a Lamb standing, as [hos] having been slain [esphagmenen],
Rev 13:3 one of its heads, as [hos] having been slain [esphagmenen] to death

Rev 2:8 ... the First and the Last, who became dead, and lived [ezesen]:
Rev 13:14 ... the beast who has the wound of the sword, and lived [ezesen].

The Antichrist, in parody of Jesus, will be assassinated half way through his week and then resurrected.

Da 7:25 And he shall speak great words against the most High... and think to change times and laws: and they [the saints] shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.

The second half of the Antichrist’s prophetic week will be characterized by war and THE APOSTASIA. At the end of second three and a half years comes THE PAROUSIA (cp. Rev 19:11ff).

Anonymous said...

Better double check that, 5:02. He didn't say anything to me about it! If I were you, I'd go to the store and get me some good Marlboro ciggies. Enjoyable preventative medicine!

John said...

Anon, Tuesday, January 9, 2024 at 4:34:00 PM PST, said:

"...God is a bad planner. He should have had all this figured out 500 or 5000 years ago. It's his fault. If it takes so long to finish the work, why did he wait so long to start it? He should have started with Herb's grandfather..."
******
Anon, time will prove that God is not at fault as a bad planner, and He has a lot more figured out than you could ever have imagined.

What's ahead of us, and a lot further ahead (just beyond Winnail's ((pick any other name you wish)) Mickey Mouse Millennium) than you can imagine?

Revelation 17:11 "And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
:12 And the ten horns which thou sawest are ten kings, which have received no kingdom as yet; but receive power as kings one hour with the beast.
:13 These have one mind, and shall give their power and strength unto the beast.
:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings: and they that are with him [are] called, and chosen, and faithful.
:15 And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.
:16 And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the whore, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
:17 For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled."

Anon, you paid more attention to the will of others, and you've listened to the timing proposed by others, and that has all failed you.

God's plan is to save all humanity and subsequently destroy principalities (Eph 6:12; I John 3:8; 2 Thess 2:8; Ezekiel 28:19).

Will He succeed as He has said (2 Cor 5:19)? Time will tell. In the meantime, we may have confidence in these NT verses:

"Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world." Acts 15:18

What does the writer of Acts know? Paul had a similar thought:

"For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world." Hebrews 4:3

What works? God has works? God knows that He does. Here's David's words:

Psalm 111:2 "The works of the LORD [are] great, sought out of all them that have pleasure therein.
:3 His work [is] honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
:4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the LORD [is] gracious and full of compassion."

In our day and age: consider this. Did God lie to us again, or has it been those hirelings (e.g. Weston, Winnail, Weinland, Franks, Kubik, Shabi, Flurry, Coulter, etc.) and those followers who fled from the former WCG and performed like those false prophets who lived in Jeremiah's day?

Jeremiah 32:30 "Therefore, behold, I [am] against the prophets, saith the LORD, that steal my words every one from his neighbour.
:31 Behold, I [am] against the prophets, saith the LORD, that use their tongues, and say, He saith.
:32 Behold, I [am] against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD."

We may not have seen the end of the matter yet, but time will tell...

John

Anonymous said...

12:43

I know right about 5:02, he says the "holy spirit has informed me that I will live to see the tribulation."

See that's what we're talking about. It's a sense of religious entitlement.

Anonymous said...

The end times are horrifying, and although it was presented as being our only possible solution, Armstrongism does not have our backs. The WCG and it's offshoots always practiced conditional love rather than grace. They have too many escape clauses and can cut you loose at whim.

This breeds the only logical alternative, which is to fervently wish the end times never come.

John said...

Viehe concludes with writing: "...And very thankfully God's Church is again moving forward with great power. The statistics are amazing. God has again restored his blessings. We need to make sure that we're growing with it and we need to make sure that our spiritual statistics are improving. We need so to commit ourselves that it never again need be written in the annals of church history, or even alluded to, that they limited the Holy One of Israel. But rather, let it be said that by their faith and obedience, and by their commitment and zeal, they hastened the day of his coming."..."
******
God's Church moving forward with great power? What Church is that? It sounds a lot like typical xcog thinking where the members strive to take glory to self, strive to impress God that they are accomplishing something.

God isn't waiting to move from Plan A to Plan B to ....Plan Z. God isn't that stupid.

And Church members holding God or His plan up? Ridiculous! If a Church member has faith, God gave it to him/her. Have Cox and company forgotten who it is that God calls?

I Cor 1:26 "For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, [are called]:
27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;
28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, [yea], and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are:"

Huh?
not many wise men after the flesh
not many mighty... after the flesh
not many noble... after the flesh

Does Cox and Viehe believe they are impressing God? I mean; why did God do the following?

God hath chosen the foolish things
God hath chosen the weak things
base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen

Why did God do all of that calling that way? Was it so one could say the following?

"...We need to make sure that we're growing with it and we need to make sure that our spiritual statistics are improving. We need so to commit ourselves that it never again need be written in the annals of church history, or even alluded to, that they limited the Holy One of Israel. But rather, let it be said that by their faith and obedience, and by their commitment and zeal, they hastened the day of his coming."..."

That is all about self, self striving to impress God. What message does Cox preach/teach? Does anyone know? Is it truth or lies?

Regardless, God tells us why He did/does the calling the way He does:

I Cor 1:29 "That no flesh should glory in his presence."

Do Cox and Viehe really have anything to glory about lately, or...anything since June 25, 1985?

Time will tell...

John

Anonymous said...

"....fervently wish the end times never come."
*****
Jesus will come as in the days of Noah. There was no worldwide holocaust before the flood. The Mat 24:21 tribulation occurred in the first century AD, won't happen again. But the present day false apostles and pro(ph)fits practically scream great trib is coming, great trib is coming, great trib is coming (so send in those tithes!)

Anonymous said...

I wonder how the tithes are to be received during the "place of safety."Three and half years in the desert, hows it work?

Anonymous said...

David C. Pack and his minions constantly pin the blame on the members, too. They'd teach that if our congregations weren't growing then it was because we were not faithful, we were not zealous, not "hot/on fire", weren't praying enough, weren't loyal enough and must have wrong attitudes, too many character flaws that run deep, we delay Christ's coming in our hearts that makes God not want to add to our congregation because we'd "lead people astray" through our bad example. I'm in a country where growth has always been sparce. Never anymore than 6 but always that and less and I actually always did think it was my fault. I allowed this to get in my head for years thinking how bad of a person I must be..