Never has the Church of God movement been so blessed to have so many self-appointed prophets in its midst.
We have Dave Pack with the imminent return of Jesus in a couple days to Wadsworth Ohio. Gerald Flurry has Jesus coming to sit on a throne prepared for him in Edmond Oklahoma. Then we have the greatest prophet to ever exist since the dawn of humanity, our very own self-appointed prophet, the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel. Never have we had a prophet so attuned to God's wavelength than we have in him. All the things Flurry and Pack say are just baby pablum compared to the astounding knowledge we receive from the Great Bwana Bob.
We all can now relax and party down for a couple more years because the Great Bwana Bob says the trib cannot start before 2028! Woo Hoo! Party down, Garth!
Is the end of the world near?
Yes!
When is the earliest year that the Great Tribulation can begin?
Various ones seem to feel that it can begin in 2024 or 2025 or that it already started some time ago.
Those who believe and understand what the Bible actually teaches realize that the Great Tribulation cannot begin before 2028.
Whew! Buy that house, pay for your children's wedding, and let your children graduate from high school or college. Save that tithe money for something more important!
Should we see an escalation in the Middle East this Summer, to the point that Israel will agree to the biblical peace deal of Daniel 9:27, then we would expect Jesus to return in 2031 and the Great Tribulation to begin in early 2028.
That being said, please understand that the COGs associated with the Sardis and Laodicean churches cannot possibly know when the Great Tribulation will begin unless they change.
CG7-Denver, for one example, believes that most events in the Book of Revelation have already been fulfilled, so they are not officially looking for it. And the Laodicean churches have added extra, non-biblical events/requirements to precede the Great Tribulation, that are not necessary and hence those who believe them will NOT believe that the Great Tribulation will start until it is too late.
Here is a listing of some of the wrong prophetic views of real and claimed COG groups:
Many COG groups (ICG, CGI, UCG, COGaIC, CG7-D, CGG, CEM, etc.) do not officially teach and/or do not believe in the idea of Church eras (The Churches of Revelation 2 & 3), though they sometimes teach about the churches of Revelation. They tend to take more of a preterist (past) view of those churches, despite the fact that many statements made to them had to have future prophetic ramifications (e.g. Revelation 1:19; 3:3; 3:10). Because of that they do not teach certain prophetic aspects of this, most do not see their own problems and will have to go through the Great Tribulation.
The Great Bwana Bob Mzungu then goes on to list 54 more points as to why EVERYONE is wrong except him. Everyone is too stupid to understand the signs of the end times like he does.
He is particularly ticked off at the United Church of God and the Living Church of God. Both of these groups REFUSED to listen to him and accept the truths he gave them. The butthurt from Rod Meredith rejecting him still burns like crazy.
Yet, it should be noted that leaders in the Living Church of God and/or the United Church of God have confirmed to me personally that I was biblically correct on basically all the above points, despite the fact that their respective churches hold to several of the errors pointed out above. Those who rely too much on a compromised ministry (Ezekiel 34:7-10) to teach them prophecy that is not truly in accordance with scripture need to realize that according to Jesus’ words in Revelation 2 & 3 and Luke 21, only relatively few Christians will be protected from the hour of trial that will come upon the whole world.
How can we trust anything Bob Thiel says when he says they all confirmed to him personally that he was right? Rod Meredith said that Bob's delusional mind makes things up.
This is just more made-up junk from Bwana Bob. So, enjoy life. Enjoy the beautiful world around you and the amazing things in it. Don't let these demonic pigs masquerading as ministers of righteousness rob you of the beauty around you.
20 comments:
Mat 24:24 continues. Hopefully not for long.
HWA "weaponized" (note the cool new term borrowed from politics!) the tribulation in order to scare people into his church, and (ahem!) become the beneficiary of all those tithes and offerings!
Reality is, that "bomb" was diffused in 1972-75 when it became perfectly obvious that HWA didn't know his A double crooked letter from a hole in the ground, prophecy-wise. God allowed him to look like a presumptuous fool! And, as if to underscore the obvious, 3-5 years is now coming up on 50 years! Folks, there is no sign that the "officials" in any of the Armstrong franchises have finally grasped the deepest of meanings to Jesus' words that "no man knows but the Father". That in and of itself proves that it can't be figured by math, but will be an on the spot judgment call Father God makes when conditions cross His line in the sand.
Bob Thiel thinks he can game the system by telling us when the tribulation "can't be before". One of the problems inherent with Armstrongism is that by simply alluding to a date, it gives people who believe that the Armstrong prophecy mold is absolute a sense of false security. They will not see events and circumstances outside of that mold which warrant precautions or proper preparation. The focus is upon Germany, Europe, the Catholic Church, the captivity of the USA, and basically the end time apocalypse, which is such a huge event that you really cannot do anything about it, save to pick and support the correct ACOG, each of which claims to be exactly that.
Armstrongism is not a nurturing religion. It is one which deliberately keeps members on edge. Most Christian religions focus members on God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit, trusting that somehow, in spite of all odds, they are powerful enough to get the Christian through the tough spots. Armstrongism focusses members on their own human frailties (You may not be worthy to escape). It's another version of Peter and the wind! When I contemplate the cumulative effect of decades of thinking "What if I don't qualify to make it?", that, plus putting up with all the other negatives an ACOG member must endure, it is actually worse than 3-1/2 years the tribulation is said to last. Because of the ways numbers were used in the Bible in different contexts, we don't even know if 3-1/2 years is specific. And, yet there is no shortage of those who would profess to have all the answers.
The ACOG leaders and Bob Thiel are not growing and not going viral because they are all ineffective. Armstrongism has basically been burned. Nobody is going to listen to anyone in a movement that has such a track record of failure. It's a religious philosophy which has been permanently stigmatized.
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Bob is a gnostic, not a Christian.
Jesus told us to follow His example and to live His way. And exactly 0% of His life required (or even involved) the specialized knowledge which Bob professes to possess. In fact, Jesus made it clear that even He didn't know all the details about His return. He told us to "watch" for certain events, but His point was that we must already be "so doing" when those events occur. If we aren't living a Christ-like life, no amount of special knowledge will save us.
If you tell lies, deny plain truths, treat people badly, promote pagan practices (and those who practice them), and exalt yourself, then even if you somehow "know" when Christ will return, He won't be happy with you when He returns. Christ promises to protect those who obey Him, not those who "figure out" the Father's timeline.
"I never knew you" is going to be something that many of those like Bob will hear, when Christ returns.
I have not kept close track of his claims in that area, but I feel like he keeps pushing that year back.
How much simpler it would be to understand that the Book of Revelation is not for us today and that all Bible prophecy is written for those to whom it is actually written.
Divining today's news from it is a waste of life time. It was most likely written in the Summer of 69 or even 70 AD around the Roman siege of Jerusalem to encourage those trapped and actually yet to be understood, doomed, to hang in because the Messiah returns in 3.5 years and the Romans will be destroyed. However, it was the Romans who won, 3.5 years later in 73 CE in their final assault on Masada.
We always overlook the author's "to show things which must shortly come to pass.." and the conclusion of Revelation Jesus that "behold I come quickly". We do this in reading as if it was just written to us. The time is now long passed and it was a hoepful but false prophesy.
I find the more realistic view of preterist theological perspectives to be more the case.
"Preterism is a Christian eschatological view or belief that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already been fulfilled in history.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preterism
Wikipedia says: "...Preterism is a Christian eschatological view or belief that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already been fulfilled in history. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened from the seventh century BC until the first century AD, while seeing the prophecies of the Book of Revelation, as well as Christ's predictions within the Olivet Discourse, as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70..."
I was curiosity, what about the prophecies in 2 Thessalonians 2?
2 Thessalonians 2:1-4 "Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God."
Three questions come to mind:
If the prophecies listed there were fulfilled, and are now past history, when did the gathering together unto Jesus Christ happen?
When did the "following away first" come?
Who specifically was revealed as "that man of sin?"
If those answers are not available, don't look to or ask any of the uncaring hirings (John 10:12-13) of the former WCG, but time will tell...
John
PROPHET TONTO PREDICTS!--
The Second Coming will not occur before the year 1966.
When it comes to knowing or not knowing when Jesus returns, as Surfer Joe says, referring to Matthew 24:36, no one knows the time or date that Jesus will return, including Jesus Christ himself, except the Father. Only the Father knows.
Maybe the Father has not even set a date yet. Maybe he is waiting for the bride of His Son to get herself ready, otherwise the bridegroom delays His coming, as in the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25.
Yet false prophets like Pack and Thiel still think they can figure it out, if their maths is good enough.
Too many people believe in the false teaching of 6000 years from Adam to the return of Christ. If the dates of Bishop Usher were correct, then the 6000 years ended in 1997.
Clearly he was wrong, and used the Masoretic text to do his calculations, which contains errors.
The Septuagint is far more reliable and predates the Masoretic text by 1000 years.
This video explains some of it: https://youtu.be/caLuH8HtP8I
It is about the Antichrist, but also mentions why Adam was created c. 6800 years ago, at least.
He keeps pushing the year up or ahead which does kind of feel like a going back.
He's tapping into a mindset of, "attention : this year we currently are in now, could potentially be 3 1/2 years away from start of Great Tribulation". (and as each year advances without the peace deal, then the tribulation gets pushed back regularly as well). That pushing back has a vague feeling of the Pack dates changing, and of the 1975 hype.
Each year that we see a new post being posted (or "updated", "revised") on the subject, it describes the 3 1/2 years can't begin yet that year, unless some kind of middle east peace deal gets brokered 1st in the middle of some war there that hasn't occurred yet.
Israel & the Arab neighbors do seem prone to clashing someday in a larger war than what they typically have been so far, but it's good to hope they won't.
@ Anon 10:00 AM... wouldn't an actual prophet simply TELL US the correct year, instead of pushing his "No earlier than..." date back a year every year?
Yes I think so, 10:20. It's hard to keep seeing the 3 1/2 years as dangling on a slow motion, forward moving carrot string in those posts so far.
Not being such a skeptic, what I'm not clear about is why Thiel added 3.5 years to 2028.
The introduction of the electronic implants is scheduled for 2025.
Is Thiel still waiting for the King of the South to attack the North?
Also to mention about church eras. I now think that Grace is the dead remnant of Philadelphia, similar to Sardis. So whoever is left doing the work is Laodicea. That is not a condemnation because Laodicea is a true church of God.
''Also to mention about church eras. I now think that Grace is the dead remnant of Philadelphia, similar to Sardis. So whoever is left doing the work is Laodicea. That is not a condemnation because Laodicea is a true church of God.''
Unfortunately this assumes that the true church of God is found in Armstrongs worldwide and its many various offshoots. One is of course free to believe, but the booklet published by the WCG making such claims is propaganda and without any merit at all. It has the same standing as the fake apostles lies about prophecy.
Also to mention about church eras. I now think that Grace is the dead remnant of Philadelphia, similar to Sardis. So whoever is left doing the work is Laodicea. That is not a condemnation because Laodicea is a true church of God.
the observation of days such as sabbath and annual festivals is not the identifying sign of a one true church as was falsely claimed by Armstrong. Only sign Jesus have was you will know them by their fruits, and on this score Armstrong system fails miserably. There was also the alleged keeping of the ten commandments which they never did.
These guys learned from Hollywood on how to string the viewer along, like soap opera serials used to do, creating a hard to resist, dedicated audience! Tune in next time for..."will the 3 1/2 years start this year, or next year? will it start during the admin. of this POTUS, or another POTUS?"
Re church claims of a one true church
Even assuming that each church mentioned in revelation would represent different kinds of churches through history, represented by the seven historical churches - that two or more of these happen to be coexisting all at a so called end time is fanciful speculation by the fanciful apostle.
When did the "following away first" come? Who specifically was revealed as "that man of sin?"
when the Romans destroyed the city of Jerusalem in 70 AD they did not so far as I know do things that may match the man of sin to whom you refer. Suspect you are right in asking about it as a yet future event
He had a hilarious couple of articles up crying about "enslaved cyborg brains". As often happens, the sensationalist sources he used misled him, or he didnt read the articles closely - the tech in question isnt actually using human brains. Just brain tissue without the lobes or organization or endocrine system - and the tech's actually been around since the late 70s when protein synthesis became fairly stable.
"These guys learned from Hollywood on how to string the viewer along, like soap opera serials.."
Or is it that Hollywood learned from the religionists? Religions have been into mind control and stringing their members along way before Hollywood came into being.
Nah. It was part of the Zeitgeist of that particular era. The cliff hangers were part of movie serials in HWA's middle age years.
Anyone who has read Og Mandino knows that there has always been cross-pollenation amongst those who cast their nets amongst the general public. Ideas are co-opted from the moment they are hatched.
One example from the past is the old red ball cap that says "Things Go Better With Christ!"
The Coca Cola Corp. would probably have sued if it hadn't been Christians who glommed on to that.
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