@misterdifficult #cults #CultSurvivor #armstrongism #worldwidechurchofgod #wwcg #wcg #continuingchurchofgod #ccog #bobthiel @Pasadenaguy10 @exRestoredCOG ♬ original sound - misterdiffiCULT
Just when you think the stupidity coming out of Bob Thiel, the Great Bwana to Africa and the occasional 100 Caucasians can't get any sillier, along comes MisterdifiCULT highlighting Bob Thiel's apostolic succession nonsense. We have long said Bob is a liar masquerading as a Christian and this just adds more fuel to the fire.
Here is the direct line of succession that Bob Thiel claims leads to him being the end-time prophet. The asshattery here is appalling!
Peter through death circa 64-68 (mainly oversaw churches from Asia Minor, Antioch, and Jerusalem)
John through death circa 98-102 (oversaw churches from Ephesus of Asia Minor)
Polycarp through death circa 155-157 (oversaw churches from Smyrna of Asia Minor) 1
Thraseas through death circa 160 (oversaw the churches from Eumenia, but died in Smyrna)
Sagaris through death circa 166-167 (died in Laodicea of Asia Minor)
Papirius through death circa 170 (oversaw churches from Smyrna of Asia Minor)
Melito through death circa 170-180 (oversaw churches from Sardis of Asia Minor)
Polycrates through death circa 200 (oversaw churches from Ephesus of Asia Minor)
Apollonius of Ephesus through death circa 210 (oversaw churches from Ephesus of Asia Minor). 1
Camerius of Smyrna through death circa 220 (possibly oversaw churches from Smyrna of Asia Minor). 1
c. 220 - c. 254 Nepos of Arsinoe
c. 254 - c. 275 Unnamed Antiochian(s) or possibly Dorotheus 2
c. 275 - 312 Lucian of Antioch 2
c. 313 - 380 Unnamed Antiochian (s) 2
c. 380 - c. 470 Unnamed Nazarenes 3
c. 470 - c. 500 Constantine of Antioch and Aushin 3
c. 500 - c. 645 Unnamed ‘Paulicians’3
c. 645 - c. 650 Leader with New Testament from Syria 4
c. 650 - c. 684 Constantine of Mananali (Silvanus) 4
c. 684 - c. 696 Simeon 4
c. 697 - c. 702 Sergius 4
c. 702 - c. 717 Paul the Armenian 4
c. 717 - c. 746 Gegnesius 4
c. 746 - c. 782 Joseph (Epaphroditus) 4
c. 783 - c. 800 Unnamed Paulician(s)
c. 801 - c. 835 Sergius (Tychicus) 4
c. 836 - c. 919 Unnamed Paulicians
c. 920 - c. 950 Basil 5
c. 951 - c. 980 Jeremiah 5
1000s Sergius (27 years) 6
c. 1110 - 1140 Peter DeBruy (Pierre De Bruy)
1140 - 1155 Arnold of Brescia
1156 - 1181 Nicetas 6
1181 - 1205 Peter Waldo 6
1205 - 1224 Arnold Hot 7
1224 - c. 1240 Arnold Aurisonus, in Latin: Arnoldus Aurisanus 7
c. 1240 - 1310 Unnamed Sabbatarian Waldensians
c. 1310 - 1322 Walter the Lollard 8
1322 - c. 1335 Raymond the Lollard
c. 1335 - c. 1460 Unnamed Sabbatarian Waldensians 3
c. 1460 - 1492 Anthony Ferrar 9
1492 - 1525 Stefano Carlino 8 or Unnamed Sabbatarian Waldenesians 3
1526 - 1528 Moravian Sabbatarian Anabaptist ‘traveling minister’10
1529 - 1540 Andreas Fischer 11
c. 1540 - 1563 Michiel Rovillart of Arras 12
1560 - 1579 Francis David 13
1580 - 1587 Unnamed Sabbatarian 14
1588 - 1600 Andreas Eossi
1600 - 1616 Simon Péchi
1617 - 1619 John Traske 15
1620 - 1652 John Pecke 15
1652 - 1654 Peter Chamberlen 15
1654 - 1661 John James 15
1661 - 1678 William Saller/Seller 15
1678 - 1711 Henry Soursby 15
1712 or 1716 - 1743 Thomas Lucas 16
1712 - 1716 John Maxson 16
1716 - 1718 John Maxson, Jr.
1718 - 1737 Joseph Crandall 16
1737 - 1748 Joseph Maxson
1748 - 1778 John Maxson
1779 - 1797 Nathan Rogers 16
1797 - 1820 James Dunn 17
1820 - 1850 John Cottrell 18 or 1823-1850 Peter Davis
1839 or 1850 - 1871 Asa Bee or unnamed Sabbatarian
1871 - 1900 A.C. Long
1900 - 1905 William C. Long
1905 - 1921 S.W. Mentzer
1921 - 1933 Andrew N. Dugger 19
1922 - 1933 John S. Stanford 19
1933 - 1986 Herbert W. Armstrong
1986 - 2011 Aaron Dean 20
1986 -2011 Roderick C. Meredith 20
1986 - 2010 Dibar Apartian 21
2011 - present Bob Thiel
What the numbers mean
We have seen much nonsense from COG leaders, but this one takes the sweepstake prize.19 A.N. Dugger claimed to have apostolic succession, yet lost what he may have had shortly after he knowingly refused to teach truth. John S. Stanford taught doctrines like the Holy Days that A.N. Dugger refused to teach, but lost whatever succession he had when he basically ‘faded out’ of leading the work (probably at least partially because of some of his prophetic misunderstandings).
20 Three leaders, out of many possible, are listed here in the transitional phase from Philadelphia to the Philadelphian remnant to lead the final phase of the work. All three had laying on of hands succession (as do all true Christians and ministers) as well as reasons why they could have had the Philadelphian succession mantle as well as reasons why that would not remain. Aaron Dean though maintaining many Philadelphian traits, has remained supportive of a non-Philadelphia-era governance structure. In Dr. Meredith’s case, he followed in the error of A.N. Dugger by refusing to teach what he said was true. Dibar Apartian, himself, died December 2010, and had tried to get Dr. Meredith to change.
21 We accept that scores of others from the time of Herbert W. Armstrong have laying on of hands succession related to Laodicea (and perhaps other eras), but since Philadelphia was to continue (cf. Hebrews 13:1) it is through Dibar Apartian to Bob Thiel that we tend to assert the Philadelphian leadership succession occurred.
It is important to note the following:
Herbert Armstrong NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
Aaron Dean NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
Rod Meredith NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
Doug Winnail NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
Richard Ames NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
Dibar Apartian NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
The Worldwide Church of God NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
Notice who is directly missing from this mythological line of succession: Gaylyn Bonjour. Bonjour is the man Thiel used to claim gave him the right of apostolic succession and the blessing to start a new church (which Gaylyn Bonjour NEVER intended and publicly said so)The Global Church of God NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
The Living Church of God NEVER ordained Bob Thiel
And, yes, people like Polycarp of Smyrna and Bob Thiel share the same basic doctrines and practices--including those that have been condemned by Greco-Roman church leaders, who gained political dominance in the third and later centuries.
And then there is this:
Anyway, God grants the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands and succession was taught in the old Radio and Worldwide Church of God, and has extended into the Continuing Church of God.
Bob Thiel is a liar in this apostolic line of succession nonsense and therefore invalidates his standing as a Church of God leader, and which rightly places him as a deceiver of the brethren.
24 comments:
Surely Bob cannot be this stupid?
And notice what is missing from all of his succession talk: Linkage. Ever since Andrew Dugger, Jr concocted, the theory of “one true church” based on an encounter in 1922 with a fellow claiming to be an Ethiopian prince, the fly in the ointment has been the inability to link ministerial ordinational succession from the present “True Church” ministry back in an unbroken chain of Sabbatarians to the original apostles. Yet, that should be considered essential. Reproduced below is one of if not, my very first reply on this platform, from this 23 June article: https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2024/06/if-you-do-not-believe-in-church.html?showComment=1719503100680&m=1#c5198866722132085625
The ultimate bullet to Armstrongism and its ministerial government is a simple historical factor: It cannot trace its “unbroken succession” of sabbatarian ministerial ordinations back to the original apostles. That concept is the core aspect of the entire “True Church” (TC) claim, and it has been at least since Dugger and Dodd codified it in their book. Armstrong ministers can’t even confirm, if any, what CG7 ministers may have been at Armstrong’s own ordination.
The significance of this shown by the precedent in Ezra 2/Nehemiah 7, wearing number of families claimed, priestly dissent, but could not produce the documentation. They were declared “unclean” and set aside. Likewise, Armstrong ministers would be set aside due to their lack of documentation.
It essentially nullifies the entire TC doctrine. Its ministers, including Armstrong himself, hold no authority over members, and the whole claim becomes meaningless. No “COG” doctrine has TC ministerial authority. No Armstrong minister has personal authority over members. None of it matters.
There is no proof required for this. Indeed, it is the Armstrong ministry’s lack of information on this that mandates the application of the Ezra/Nehemiah precedent.
Pass this to Armstrongists in a polite and objective manner. It doesn’t invalidate or destroy most of their doctrinal beliefs. It simply shows them that their church tradition held them with a fraud. It sets them free to live their faith.
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Bob missed all of the Popes! The Catholic (or Universal) Church of God actually has maintained the historic records and artifacts tracing them back to Jesus Christ through Peter and Paul.
Armstrongism is based on fantasy woven of whole cloth. If the fruits are not a major tipoff that God has never had anything to do with this abominable cult, the prophecy failures most certainly are. If Armstrongism had been inspired by God, this would be the millennium right now. It would have started in 1975.
Who is going to tell him thats not how Apostolic Succession works?
Legitimate Apostolic Succession is transferred through Bishops only, and in it there are no "unnamed" people.
I was baptized by a WWCG minister in the 1970s, and two times the holy spirit affirmed that I do have the holy spirit. To me, that trumps any intellectualizing on the matter.
If he says 3 guys can share the mantle simultaneously awhile (Dean/Meredith/Apartian), then maybe he's currently sharing it with folks too, right now? He never explores that possibility AT ALL, does he? Nor would he, with that whirling scurrying style of his that even RCM noticed.
Is he really trying to help others, or help himself? Is his style really "Jesus-like"? Too bad he wasn't content to offer & post his history & current events discoveries & contribute positively instead of all this attention grabbing me/me/me look at me stuff. He surely is waiting for his predictions to occur, rendering all to finally fall in line & to realize, oh it is Bob after all. The Yellowstone popping it's cork the other day will be claimed as one of those but maybe many others knew it was gonna blow?
He had an article up on Hosea the other day that just had me laughing like mad; he was twisting Hosea so badly to make it fit a BI scheme that it was bordering on lunacy.
Sometimes Bobs Catholic background, with its love for symbolism and allegory, reeeally shows itself. This mystical bouncing rubber mantle is a good example.
I AM SPARTICUS!
Herbert W. Armstrong Aaron Dean Roderick C. Meredith Dibar Apartian
What a line of vain pretense boggles the mind
Why isn't Joseph Tkach part of the "apostolic succession" list?
After all, my WCG congregation was told in early 1987 that it was OK to call him an "apostle" - as if he was ordained with that title before Herbert Armstrong died.
He wasn't going to be that stupid..until his super-pillar prime underlings propped him up with a sort of businessman-type of Hee Haw "SA-LUTE"!
The apostolic or is it apoplectic tag: astonishing for an invisible spiritual entity.
The RCC claims it can trace its history back to the apostles. But there were false teachers back in the days of the apostles. What's important is not tracing an organizations history back, but does the organization teach the truth of the bible. Anyone who makes his living selling vitamins and supplements, which he accepts despite having no scientific evidence as to their effectiveness, does little to impress me with his views on religion. If I can't trust his critical thinking skills with regards to supplements, I can't accept them with regard to his religious views.
I think Bob is actually an AI creation and we have all been conned. There can't truly be anyone this stupid.
I don't think Bob is stupid. He has been well trained in manipulating people through his business of selling snake oil homeopathic remedies at high prices as somehow valuable to a person's health. It has sustained him financially with these high-priced concoctions.
He has been very calculating and manipulative in his religious endeavors trying to set himself up as a prophet and church leader. Given the fact that no one in the COG movement ever chose to ordain him, he has bypassed that by gaslighting LCG leadership and members that he had truths that they did not have.
I do agree it is a con game, though. Sadly a lot of sincere Christians in Africa are being hurt spiritually.
I think Bob is actually an AI creation and we have all been conned.
Even a primitive AI wouldn't give us flappy arms and crooked curtains like in Bob's videos. If those videos are fakes, they're not deepfakes, they're shallowfakes!
I think Bob is actually an AI creation and we have all been conned.
Bob is actually a breakthrough in AS (Artificial Stupidity) and AA (Artificial Arrogance). Also in AM (Artificial Manhood), but that's an entirely different discussion.
Because the LCG & Bob all believe they slid off'n Tkach Sr.'s runaway "rogue" train in time, & followed Rod Meredith's self-proclaimed evangelistic/apostolic/mantle-ship & puffed ego.
GTA was still around at that time & instead of creating LCG, it's flock could have just became friendly brethren with GTA's friendly brethren, thereby likely presenting Terry Ratzmann with a much less violent path he took later with dry crispy stale bland flat dull LCG.
So where exactly does the Bible say there has to be an apostolic succession, and it being passed from man to man?
When a person is baptised and receives the holy spirit, that comes from God, not from the person doing the baptising.
Doesn't it follow even more so that God is involved with any human leader than God wants, rather than somehow 'switching it across' from man to man.
“The ego-self constantly pushes reality away. It constructs a future out of empty expectations and a past out of regretful memories.” -Alan Watts
“More the knowledge, lesser the ego. Lesser the knowledge, more the ego.” – Albert Einstein
"Let us be more simple and less vain." Jean-Jacques Rousseau
“If a man thinks he is not conceited, he is very conceited indeed.” – C.S. Lewis
“Big egos have little ears.” – Robert Schuller
“You never really learn much from hearing yourself speak.” – George Clooney
I vehemently disagree with Bob Thiel's theology, and generally believe him to be an ignorant, self-righteous little twit. And there were plenty of them in the old WCG! So, he's a stereotype as well.
But, I get sick of other ignorance as well, such as the idea that vitamin supplements are snake oil. Wanna test that theory? Take creatine before your next weight training session, and tell me you see no difference in your ability to handle heavier weights, and the growth of your muscle mass! Next winter, take echinacea, and see what happens to your annual "colds". Take L-glutamine, and appreciate the improvement of your memory and mental acuity.
These tests will provide the most seat of the pants results, results which are undeniable. But, not all supplements work for all people. I suppose that if one wished to be totally scientific about their usage, one would obtain a multi-point blood analysis to identify deficiencies, and then take the supplements which would correct those deficiencies. People ask me why I look the same as I did 30 years ago, and I usually laugh and quip, "Sex and drugs and rock n roll!" But the reality is, vitamin supplements have been of great value throughout my 76 years on the planet.
Vitamins are like multiculturalism. They can't work and enrich life if one does not believe in them, even though the proof they do is right there in front of your face.
Take a look someday at the prices of the concoctions that Thiel sells. The prices are disgusting. The vitamin/supplement industry is a money-making con game, just like his fake church is.
Me noticing that Elvis 1935-1977 was not included in said list.
Good quotes from Dennis Diehl.
Vanity all is vanity ……….
Meanwhile in the MEast not a sole has heard of any Armstrong ‘prophet’.
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