What if Celtic Throne really was Gerald Flurry’s final warning to the world?
In this parody of the Philadelphia Church of God’s Irish dance production,
the apocalypse has arrived — and the only way to survive is to dance and sing.
Featuring AI-generated “Gerald Flurry” audio, satirical jabs at PCG prophecy culture, and clips from the Celtic Throne stage show, this short film pokes fun at how tithes and time are poured into “commissioned works” presented as spiritual messages.
38 comments:
I'm waiting for Jude Flurry to give us a Celtic dance version of Rent or The Birdcage.
Gary is the best! Flurry is the worst!
probably more like La Cage aux Folles
The Bible is ALL about Irish Dance? Why don't you idiots get that? Can't you read? Jesus is nothing. Irish dance is everything. Who needs God when you have an Irishman like Gerald Flurry? Grow up!
‘Celtic Throne:Gods Final Warning To The World’…….yeah, a warning to avoid like the plague the pcog and Flurry and co…………
Moderators, genuine question: Why go out of your way to hide the identity of the young man supposedly demon-possessed, the tolerate the maligning and slandering of another young man simply because he’s a dancer? Indeed, but for his professed ideology, search, maligning would be very un-PC. I hope this is not an example of the PC double standard against perceived conservatives.
RE: Lee
I don't think the Flurry kid is a minor, whereas the other kid mentioned is. That seems to be the biggest difference. Plus all the kids names in Celtic Throne are most likely on the Playbill that's distributed before the show making it a matter of public record.
tolerate the maligning and slandering of another young man simply because he’s a dancer?
Where was Jude maligned and slandered here? He's probably the best thing to happen to PCG and his fellow young people in decades! This is a young man who convinced his fellow PCG youth to dance in public to The Who's "Baba O'Reilly" ("...I don't need to be forgiven... teenage wasteland"), Cyndi Lauper's "Girls Just Wanna Have Fun", David Bowie's "Let's Dance", and "Wake Me Up Before You Go-Go" by Wham. There are other COG groups that would throw kids out for even listening to music by those artists; Jude is giving his fellow PCG youth space not just to listen to that music but to celebrate it with dance.
It borders on the farcical that a large troop of performers go to far off lands doing Irish dancing. It must cost lots yet the tithe paying members and performers alike somehow convince themselves it's an endeavour linked to their religious duties? Or perhaps members remain skeptical but are given no say at all?
I should note that both of the young men referenced in my comment above are adults. In addition, the one who’s name is kept confidential is involved in the situation that at its base earthly level is confirmed, while on the other story is nothing but innuendo based on un-PC stereotyping. But I accept the moderators’ decision to leave the referenced comments up. I will remember this precedent.
What are you even talking about, Lee??? Jude Flurry has fully participated in becoming a public figure, as any other actor or dancer, and since his work is being used to advance a religion, a religious figure as well. In a sense, critiquing him is similar to commenting about Tom Cuise, currently the main face of Scientology. This is quite different from some unfortunate afflicted fellow at church summer camp! I'm surprised that you don't see a difference.
Maybe it is because anyone in Armstrongism who is accused of being possessed by demons carries a bigger church/societal stigma than a person sucking off the teat of tithe payers for a pretend musical that is about some moronic gospel message while those very same tithe payers suffer financial distress in order to keep Jude and the other Flurry grand kids in there dancing lifestyle and all the perks it brings. One is a young person who will always carry the stigma of being possessed by a demon (church members NEVER forget) and being shunned and gossiped about by church members, while the other is an elitist living a life of privilege.
Some individuals unwilling to even distinguish themselves with a handle here are attempting to play a PC silencing game with me here. It works by making me draw out obvious but un-PC observations, and then accusing me of a PC “hate crime” for stating the obvious. Either I don’t go there and thus lose, or I do go there and suffer their PC wrath.
That doesn’t work with me. Just look at my blog. Or look at an earlier effort to do this about another topic here on this blog: https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2025/07/crackpot-prophets-malawi-church-huge.html?m=1 (BTW, I posted that conversation on my own blog.) For real, it doesn’t work.
The young man was maligned and slandered in the first comment on this blog post, and the reply to it. Those commenters are, given the context and other comments have been made on this blog about him, effectively insinuating that this Christian-professing individual is effeminate and homosexual. For people of this young man’s religiosity, that is a maligning. Part of the double standard is that they use the same stereotyping, which they oppose as “hate speech” when used by a member of an opposing ideology.
I actually have no problem with the tactic as such. To point out traits that make somebody look like, say, a sniveling coward scared to even put his name on a public blog is in my opinion within the pale. My point was the double standard of allowing that young man to be identified with such maligning while going above and beyond to cover up the identity of another young man whose name was already out there in the prayer request.
In any case, I will say that the cowards making the charge really should come forward, drop their cowardice and identify themselves, and then produce evidence.
You need to calm down and stop having a tantrum every time something doesn’t go your way or people don’t bow to your demands.. If you don’t like something then ignore it and move on. Endlessly whining is not a good look.
Lee, it is your own bigotry that causes you to consider it "maligning" when a man's effeminacy is pointed out. Jude, in that wonderful Lincoln Memorial video, is kicking and dancing with vigor and joy to music that would have had him and his fellows kicked out of HWA's church. If you are locked into HWA-like ideas about gender, that's your problem, not Jude's.
Lee, do you have family in any of the COGs? Do you have a spouse and/or children in the COGs? Are you under 50? Do you want to maintain peace in your home and extended family? Do you affiliate with the COGs?
If most of your answers are "no", then it is ridiculous for you to put on some sort of bravery over those anonymous posters you call cowardly. Maybe your "freedom" is just another word for nothin' left to lose (from the cogs). Maybe?
Maybe, some see that giving their name has very few pros and a a world of cons. Such is the nature of Armstrongism.
The Extended “Short Work”
When Gerald R. Flurry first started his Philadelphia Church of Fraud back in December 1989, he told everyone that it was prophesied to do a “short work.” How many people still in Gerald's cult would have gone along with it if they had known that they would still be waiting 35 years later and that it would all be about worshipping “That (False) Prophet” Gerald Flurry and supporting Irish dancing for his grandchildren? They probably did not see it coming.
it was prophesied to do a “short work.”
How tall is Gerry, anyway?
Thanks Jim @ 1:01:53 PM PDT
Most of us post here anonymously because of family still tied to Armstrongism or we have close friends still there. It’s a way to protect them and ourselves from unwanted attention and abuse. Nothing about cowardliness. Just not throwing caution to the wind. Would love to post using my own name but humanity being as it is …..anonymously it is. Cheers.
I am shocked beyond words! Straight outa left field. Did anyone else see this coming?
Part 1 of 2.
I answered no to most of that. The problem with your argument is that anonymity can be maintained while still having a distinctive username or handle. I would help in tracking on who is saying what. “Byker Bob” has told his story about family in ACOGs. I respect that. You yourself, “jim,” do the same thing. At least it’s something. That is why I’m replying to you. It’s a conversation that can be tracked, with at least a touch of accountability.
I am here because I take this seriously. Yes, I have a little fun taking shots at Herbie, but that’s not really why I’m here. The only reason I pay any attention to Armstrongism is to expose its fraud to those in it (the succession claim), and head off others from falling into it. Coming across the site, I had hoped the people here would come together in an organized effort. Hence, my proposal while back for billboards in Branson this Feast. But alas, no.
If somebody wants to believe it, and they know the history, and they are straightforward about a thing — they and their ACOG — I’ll probably shake their hand and leave them in peace. It’s the cover-up, the denials, making people think they are getting into one thing when you’re actually getting into another, and the obvious historical fail, which most don’t know about that keeps me paying attention to it. I failed to act sufficiently back in the early 2000s. I basically just got out of it. I know now that was wrong.
There are other sites to talk about Armstrongism negatively. This is one that has collected a larger following. But alas, it really is just Armstrongaholics ANONYMOUS.
Cont.
Pat 2 of 2.
My discussions with people like Scout are a different matter. It’s the inconsistency. If you believe the Bible — which I no longer do as a thing of divine origin — then believe it. I think of people who seriously do believe that book, including my old self. It’s disrespectful to say you believe, and then openly and overtly disregard it. And spiritually speaking, it is self-believing. Give it to Armstrongists that at least they come up with some argument vaguely sounding Bible for their beliefs and practices.
I will tell this to Armstrongists as well. If they champion Herbie, then they should believe and follow Herbie. In that sense, Billingsley and Kitchen are probably the best. They say it. As a result, they completely fail at outreach beyond the greater fold, and their devoted followings could meet in a couple of corner booths at a Denny’s. Oh, if only all of the more traditional Armstrongists were like that. The movement would be as dead as the Shakers.
But even here, my anti-Armstrongism has a place. In that regard, the problem with efforts against it so often is that it disrespects their entire religion. I said this about the Apostate Sisters. When you attack the very concept of religious faith, for example, an Armstrongist who might be in a place to hear the problems of their movement is going to disregard their doubts and reject the legitimate message. If you can break a person of their tie to the movement, THEN you open their minds to the possibility of specific mistakes. You’ll never win many Armstrongists on arguing specific doctrinal points. Their use of John 6:44 blocks that. But if you can attack their movement while respecting the things they supposedly “proved for themselves,” you have a chance. A person can leave Armstrongism, and yet still be a Leviticus 23-observing soul sleeper and Anglo-Israelist. Then once they are out, you can address those issues if you wish.
Example: I know in my case I went along because I thought I had to go along. If I had known about the succession fraud, I would’ve left much sooner. It simply eliminates their supposed authority. And then I would’ve been open to alternate ideas. So when the True Church claim was denounced in 1994, I actually found myself at times thinking about revisiting doctrines, and perhaps attending elsewhere. But then came 1995, and I found myself rallying back to a neo-Armstrongism. People seeing the Apostate Sisters can have the same reaction, as they can seeing someone claiming the Bible, and then openly disregarding it.
That’s it.
———
As for me championing my own views on things: Hey, it’s an opportunity.
Bo, those people pushing their agenda, is straight out of their playbook.
What would you do if someone with all of the same undesirable personality traits as the uptight, authoritarian, know-it-all @$$hole killjoy ministers had in the cult you left suddenly appeared on your favorite blog?
We get it Lee. Everyone here is to stupid to understand things as much as you do. You are always right and everything we do is wrong. Because many here are people of faith you find that irritating too. Who are you trying to impress?
Re: Billboards in Branson; Organized effort. (7:29, 7:31)
There have been others who have come here wishing to harness us into different projects and activities throughout the past. Because we are independent thinkers, they have found that "leading" us is not unlike attempting to herd cats. Those who are most highly regarded in this little corner of the universe are the ones who provide information worthy of discussion, and then allow everyone to chew on it, digest it, and make their own decisions. This sort of give and take process is anathema to the Armstrongist mindset. It's why participating Armstrongites often jeer us with questions such as, "Who is your guru now?" Most folks here are beyond the guru model, and see life as a sort of cosmic library, in which you collect data, come to your own decisions, and resent anyone who even remotely attempts to whore up the process by controlling it.
I believe you have experienced this in action as a consequence of your intransigence on the anonymous thingie.
BB
I guess I just care more about others than other people here.
But then, I have no idea how many other people there are here. Half the Anonymi are probably the same person talking to himself.
But I do appreciate your take. Thank you.
A Bad Relationship
From the beginning, Gerald Flurry was a perverted runt who wanted people to financially support him and worship him while he and the fake “ministers” that he set up did nothing but evil continually to them in return for all their support. It was a “toxic relationship.”
I enjoy Irish music and dance, and there is absolutely NOTHING effeminate about a male dancing. I do have a problem with using tithe money and offerings to support a grandchild's career or hobby! Moreover, as enjoyable as Celtic dancing might be, it is ABSURD to suggest that it has ANY relationship to the Christian faith or message - period! Like his mentor (Herbie), Gerald Flurry is a narcisstic sociopath.
"Half the Anonymi are probably the same person talking to himself."
Why do you continue to malign people when you don't get your way? You can tell from the comments that many people are writing, and not just one person talking to himself.
The video is funny though.
It's an interesting thought to try organizing
those on this and other websites that recognize the fraud in Armstrongism and to help wake people to Armstrongism or warn them off beforehand. I wish someone had done that for me. I suspect this website and others do that to a degree. If a billboard in Branson was used, what would it say? It would need to be biblical and respectful to be effective.
John 1:17 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.
The Law was given to Moses; it did not precede him. But, for the Christian, the New Covenant through Jesus Christ is the eternal covenant of truth and grace.
Needs more punch I suppose.
Jim, like I said, my idea isn’t to attack their theology. They have their beliefs; you have yours. It was to expose the fraud of the Armstrong faith tradition — that is, the “True Church” (TC) succession claim. Break them of any sense that they are OBLIGATED to follow the Armstrongist ministry. That opens them up to new ideas.
Something like, “Who ordained Herbert Armstrong? And why it matters,” and then an easily-remembered website address with the information (better edited) here: https://catsgunsandnationalsecurity.blogspot.com/2025/03/reference-to-followers-of-armstrongism.html?m=1
The idea is that as they are driving around to their services or Country music shows, they would see it and wonder. It’s something that, while a bit suspicious, is a question that really will stick in their craw. They check the site, and see the HISTORICAL reality — that the TC claim is a fraud. Let them believe what they believe on specific theological matters, but break them of the cult control.
Like I said before: “If you can break a person of their tie to the movement, THEN you open their minds to the possibility of specific mistakes. You’ll never win many Armstrongists on arguing specific doctrinal points. Their use of John 6:44 blocks that. But if you can attack their movement while respecting the things they supposedly ‘proved for themselves,’ you have a chance. A person can leave Armstrongism, and yet still be a Leviticus 23-observing soul sleeper and Anglo-Israelist. Then once they are out, you can address those issues if you wish.”
Some deep believers won’t care. But the ones that have a little bit of questioning in them — the ones who sometimes leave services thinking something is a little off — this might turn them. It doesn’t threaten their belief in things that got them interested in “the Church.” It doesn’t threaten those things they like. But it gives them a “legal” way out.
Attack their cult, not their faith.
But I should also say, that even some of the deep believers could be impacted. If they learn that “the Church” itself isn’t what they thought it was, and bypasses doctrine. They might be the most susceptible of all. It’s just a matter of getting them to see the information.
It is an admirable quality to care about people, Lee. Back in the day, I had an opportunity to get to know John Trechak, publisher of the original dissident media, "Ambassador Reports". Worked with him at AC Press every day for several months. This was a man who did care greatly for people, and spent much of his time answering the questions of those who read his magazine and would call him or write. In some small way, we who have been active on these so-called dissident sites are doing some of that same work, something that he initiated. Coincidentally, John learned about the nuts and bolts of creating mass media from what we were doing at the Press, and he had a natural writer's mind, and was a deep thinker. He was also an accomplished musician.
What seems to be true, then and now, is that over decades, we have been unable to come up with any silver bullet which just makes Armstrongism dry up and blow away. But, people read what we write here and other places and it occasionally makes them ask the difficult questions that they were deflected from asking during the process by which they became members of HWA's church or its splinters. Their minds are becoming open, and these are the good old days in which they can actually carry on discussions with people who left long ago, and have enjoyed successful lives, and have actually become better people than they were as followers of the Armstrong philosophy. Those asking the questions find personal identity in the bad experiences many of us endured directly as a result of practicing Armstrongism. Timing is everything. People can best be reached when they themselves begin to ask the forbidden questions. Before that point in time, they are by virtue of their programming, impervious to any incoming information which could debunk, disprove, or cast doubt upon the philosophy they have embraced, and the culture in which they have participated for years. Confronting the impervious ones often makes them go back, restudy their materials and proof texts, digging in even deeper, leading to spending even more years in their false and toxic system. It is the thing in their lives for which they will fight most viciously to preserve, and therefore becomes the very thing which enslaves them!
One of the most lingering effects of our Armstrong experience, in addition to PTSD, can be paranoia. This had multiple sources in Armstrongism, beginning with fear of the Germans and their meathooks, fear of the authoritarian ministers swooping down on us at unexpected times, fear of the "ratting" or "snooping" culture of brethren who did not respect our personal space and or barriers, and fear of "the world" (the old "us and them" mentality). We had fear and distrust of government officials, and any do-gooders who might persecute us for our beliefs. This bred the tendency to automatically jump to worst case scenario in any given situation, relief when that failed to happen, only to treat the next event in the cycle in the same way. Never ending paranoia. This drives some people to seek anonymity, and ironically, for others to become very suspicious of those who insist on anonymity. Paranoia takes many forms and is difficult to shake.
Just my opinions, but hope they provide some usable nuggets.
BB
You mentioned asking the difficult forbidden questions. “Who ordained Herbert Armstrong? (And why it matters),” as I suggested to Jim, is one of those. Most don’t realize it is such a dangerous issue for the movement, so some might ask it and spread it around without realizing what the nature of their act.
Most congregations have that precocious know-it-all who, despite his Sheldon Cooper social skills, is the go-to guy for something academic like that. I know, because I was that guy. I thought about what I would’ve done at various times in my Armstrongism career if I had been faced with that issue. To one degree or another, it would have dented my armor. Today, post-1995, if that question can be gotten going, it would have an impact. Even if it only weakened the hold over members, that can pay dividends.
I remember us talking about silver bullets. But honestly, it doesn’t have to be silver. It has to be armor-piercing. It needs to get in. The question is purely factual, and thus many may see it as not something subject to the “special calling, you have to listen to the ministry” John 6:44 thing. Doctrines, sins of the founder, prophecy, subjective evaluations of great deeds… Attacking those areas is all blocked by, “Well, God has not opened your eyes yet.” This is a matter of factuality. There is no question they do not have the succession list. And the Ezra/Nehemiah precedent will register with my fellow know-it-alls over there. They start asking questions… You see where this could go.
Addendum to previous: Maybe the billboard could include a picture of Armstrong with hands being laid upon his head. Yes, it’s AI propaganda. And we can have a little disclaimer at the bottom of the picture. But it would stick in their heads.
And then, there are the outsiders. It might get some of the locals start asking questions.
The thing is, Lee, we've been using that succession or ascendance theory on them for decades now, even incorporating the facts behind HWA's baptism. The problem is that in most cases, the type of thinking which led the followers of HWA to accept this endless chain of laying on of hands theory in the first place, required blind faith in HWA as "God's Apostle", and in what he taught. So the very thing which was intended to disprove the succession which would have led to him actually being "God's Apostle" becomes overwhelmed by the persistent belief that only he, as "God's Apostle" has the truth. "They" continue to believe that his succession theory is true not because of facts, but because of who he said he was as he presented the alleged facts.
You were an exception, and I'm glad you were. In most church members minds, they identify HWA very closely with God, with truth, and actually as the only credible source. There are other factors which had meanings for different members and set off the illuminating light bulbs so they could see to leave. One of them involved British Israelism, and you can see how some come up with all manner of ridiculous reasons to continue believing that! Some have lost dearly loved relatives or spouses while eschewing very simple medical solutions, and it shook them and made them reevaluate their positions. Some were egregiously abused by church government. These are all conditions their church inflicted upon them! The well known collection of all these factors together has not become the nuclear bomb one might assume them to be.
People wonder why we continue to discuss these things years after we ourselves have recovered. This is why! So that those we left behind in the cult might, in time, see or read that particular thing which reopens their mind, strikes the chord, so to speak. It also helps us to realize that we are free and on the right track.
BB
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