"The Torah is the first five books of our Bible and it hasn't been done away with. Right? We love the
Torah and we teach from it. Torahism, on the other hand, is the dangerous and unbiblical misapplication of the old covenant commands of God on new covenant believers in Jesus.
Torah and we teach from it. Torahism, on the other hand, is the dangerous and unbiblical misapplication of the old covenant commands of God on new covenant believers in Jesus.
Now, Toraism isn't a monolithic movement. They don't have a single governing body or a codified set of doctrines that everyone agrees on.
It's it's a disperate collection of different groups and organizations. And their theology ranges a bit from group to group. But the thread that ties them all together is the mistaken belief that new covenant Christians are required to keep the old covenant rituals.
It's it's a disperate collection of different groups and organizations. And their theology ranges a bit from group to group. But the thread that ties them all together is the mistaken belief that new covenant Christians are required to keep the old covenant rituals.
Things like the dietary laws, the feasts, the seventh day Sabbath, the tassels, and so on. And they further believe that not keeping those things is sinful and rebellious and disobedient to God..."
This little gem has been lighting up Facebook the past few days, sparking huge conversations about how the Hebrew Roots movement is oh-so-helpfully "disrupting" mainstream Christian congregations and tearing families apart by demanding that the law still needs to be kept.
They're bravely calling out the classic combo: British Israelism mixed with a trendy appropriation of Jewish culture—while conveniently rejecting actual Jewish voices and input. Yep, that sure does sound exactly like Armstrongism in action! Because nothing says "healthy spiritual influence" like showing up and systematically destroying everything it touches. Keep up the great work, folks—division and chaos are clearly the fruits of the Spirit we're all craving.
A Facebook reader posted:
I'll be honest, I don't mind loosing more "friends" over this.
A literal mapping and warning to the Body of Messiah about this unbalanced, rebranding of Hebert W. Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God Cult has been badly needed since the 1990's. It doesn't matter how an adherent of the cultic teachings came to them.
The ministry that made the statement is rightly concerned about aberrant Hebrew Roots Cultic teachings, their influence on mainstream churches. Having a way to monitor and protect churches from their unbalanced doctrines and influence is absolutely necessary and has been needed since the 1990's.
Many of them have renamed themselves "messianic congregations" or ministries, coopting actual Messianic Congregations with Jewish Believers having real input (because they are an expression of our own culture and people).
The Hebrew Roots Cultists are the reason I have limited by involvement with even Messianic Congresgations, because they were the first that were adversely impacted by the HR Cult and their teachings whether or not followers know about the roots of this Cult, nor how they came to believe and teach what they teach separated from the Cult itself, because they still teach, believe and harm others with their Cultic teachings. Many are well meaning, very sincere, and others are very harmful with their rhetoric. Either way, the HR Movement by any name is British Israelism and Cultural Appropriation of Jewish culture while rejecting Jews and our Jewish perspective and voices. That last sentence identifies the worst part: Hebrew Roots is an expression Suppercessionism (Replacement Theology), it is arrogance and the very kind of "boasting against the branches" that Paul warns about in Romans 11. Paul's letter to the Romans (the only letter to a church he didn't start, because they were to evil in rejecting Jewish believers return to Rome after being framed for the burning of Rome along with the rest of the Jewish community by a previous Emperor), was his surgical strike to execute ROMAN Imperialistic Supercessionism when it began in the Nacent Roman Catholic Church
26 comments:
R.L. Solberg has a needed work. He is humble and caring in my interactions with him; Imagine that.
God's Way versus All Other Ways
God's good laws in places like Leviticus 11:1-47 about which animals are clean and may be eaten and which animals are not clean and must not be eaten are just fine with me. A savoury roast beef cow is great, but I am not interested in eating pigs or lobsters or rats or monkeys or cats or dogs.
People are forever coming up with their own ideas about diet, such as eating everything that moves (omnivore) or else eating nothing that moves (vegetarian) or eating nothing that even comes from anything that moves (vegan). The books full of people's own ideas about diet are endless.
At the same time, people always reject whatever God has said about diet. They hate and despise and reject everything that the Holy Bible actually says about practical living, but then go on and on about how they love the Lord and are forever seeking to know His will for them. They accuse those who try to obey God of arguing and causing division, rather than admit that their own rebellion and rejection of what God has said is actually the cause of all the division.
The reason that the things God has actually said in the Holy Bible seem like secret “hidden knowledge” to so many people is that the Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches do not teach about them, except to argue against them.
MORE God's Way versus All Other Ways
The Holy Bible teaches about God's weekly Sabbath of rest every seventh day (Saturday). It is even included in the fourth one of God's own big Ten Commandments.
The Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches reject and disobey God's law in order to follow their own tradition of observing Sunday, the first day of the week. A couple billion people who profess to be Christians do this.
About a billion Muslims try to pass off Friday, the sixth day of the week, as something special to them.
Evilutionists want people to work 24/7/365 without any regular rest breaks.
The reason that the things God has actually said in the Holy Bible seem like secret “hidden knowledge” to so many people is that the Roman Catholic Church and its Protestant daughter churches, the Muslims, and the evilutionists, are all doing other things and do not teach about God's laws, except to argue against them, of course.
Love yourself.....don't eat the unclean. Love God.....observe HIS 3 feasts and 7th day sabbath. But now that faith has come and we are no longer under a schoolmaster tassels are now an option and maybe even the 3 annual sabbaths........no longer need to make noise (Tishri 1), no fasting if Christ is being formed in you (Tishri 10), and resting up after 7 days of ......... (Tishri 22).
Proper spelling helps......"loosing" more friends"......should be "losing"........"they were "to" evil" should be "too" evil.....
We missed you on the "pre-Adamic man" post recenltly.
Jesus Christ said that he came to this earth to fulfill Torah and the Prophets, and he did. Torah pointed to Christ. The sacrificial/ritualistic systems, clean and unclean, sabbaths, festivals, circumcision, Tabernacle, Priesthood, Ten Commandments ALL find fulfillment in HIM. Notice that Legalists always struggle to come up with a formula to justify keeping parts of Torah while excluding other parts. This usually involves dividing Torah into different categories of commandments. Even so, it never works. Scripture is clear that Torah is a comprehensive whole, and that it was intended for the children of Israel, NOT Gentiles.
Quite so Millar/Lonnie.
The Law was but a tutor to bring us to Christ. It is He who has ‘qualified’ us to salvation. And called us with a holy calling not according to our works but by His purpose and grace in Jesus before time began. You are right as Acts points out, the law was not a requirement for the gentiles to salvation. And Abraham believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness, and that before the Law and circumcision. Circumcision was simply a sign of his righteousness before God and not a requirement for gentiles. As a side note, I am of the ‘tribe’ lol, Ashkenazi brand, and attend a Shul. Our Rabbi said to me quietly once ‘ never allow a Rabbi to determine how you live’. The inference was think for yourself. Abraham’s faith apart from the Law was attested too by God. And we are of the seed of Abraham if we share the faith that he had.
Honestly, at least in my area, UCG has lost more to the Hebrew Roots then they’d like to admit.
We know lots of people who have become involved with the Hebrew Roots movement. There are so many variations of it (just like the COG).
And yet, the Lord said He was going to do a new thing (in Christ), not according to the Sinai covenant. You can refuse the New Covenant.
When we die, and pass into judgment, you with either be judged by your faith in Christ or by the Sinai covenant. And you will either have the righteousness of God dwelling in you by the Holy Spirit or you will have the debt still owed and not paid for.
The law was never meant to be a vehicle of salvation, even for the Israelite. It is merely the right way to live. God calls it "that which is right and good in HIS SIGHT", see Exodus 15:26, Deut. 6:18, 12:28, 13:18. When addressing Gentile believers, Paul affirmed the commandments as the right thing to do (Ephesians 6:1-2). He even taught Gentiles out of the law of Moses as that which should not be ignored (1 Corinthians 9:7-14).
Christ summerizied the law into 2 great commandments. I don't want to beg the question, but are THEY required for us today? Has faith replaced THEM? No, I'm not suggesting a spirit led Christian should be bullied or needs to frustrate over every jot and tittle of Torah. But those 2 great commandments, which originated in Torah and summarize the LAW do tell us there is still a right way to live, and faith does not nullify that fact. Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid; yea, we establish the law (Romans 3:31).
Yes, those are the commandments of God. Love the Lord your God and love your neighbor as yourself. That’s all! Do this, and you will have fulfilled and upheld the instruction of God as good.
How do you do it? Well, how He did. He served and saved, and fed people, and helped people and laid down His life for people, while we were still His enemies. Love fulfills the law. Love is the opposite of wrath, and sin and death. Love is reconciliation and all the fruit of the Holy Spirit.
The law produces death. The spirit gives life.
Good and thoughtful comment, BP8. We are saved because of what Jesus of Nazareth did for us - NOT by obeying any Law. Even so, if we accept Christ's sacrifice (believe in him) and receive the Holy Spirit, God's Fundamental Law (the Great Commandments) are written on our hearts and become the standard for our behavior going forward. Grace is NOT a license to sin!
BP8,
It always strikes me why those more supportive of the COGs query non-COG Christians whether they believe faith overrides behavior, or something like that (Yours is very mild and I am just taking opportunity to respond to it).
I think the proof is in the pudding. From my experience non-COG Christians have better behavior than those following Armstrong or "the Law". Of course we have seen some of the rich and famous crowd who seemingly commercialize their Christianity, but there are millions of people in this country that live out their faith with trust, action, and intention. They help people, they donate, they take action, they give of their time, they live with intention and spend time with their families and community.
There are millions such people and they recognize they are not under Sinai Law. The Lord is moving them to act in ways much better than most in the COGs. Certainly their virtues are better than those in the COGS and perhaps even their vices are less.
Biblically, I accept Paul in Galatians saying the Law came 430 years after Abraham (however Paul counted that) and that it shows the law was not incumbent upon Abraham (nor us, as there is no longer a need for the pedagogue).
I have friends in the COGs and have attended within the last 3 years; we will see what time brings when the friend network of Baby boomer ministers and Gen X ministers and tithe payers thins out.
Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions.......Gal 3:19. Looks like there were (dare I say it?) two sets of laws.....the first "set" are laws that Abraham obeyed (Gen 26:5) and those given to the Israelites before Ex 24, and a second "set" of laws added because of transgressions of the first "set", second ''set" of laws as tassels, tithing, 7th month annual sabbaths, Tishri 1,10,22 ??........
We saw a picture of RSK there.
Jesus fulfilled the law and the prophets so that the rest of us can ignore the law and the prophets.
Don't obey the law and you will not be saved. Sin is the road to hell.
An honest examination against the scriptures would say you ignore some of the law. You who want to be under the law, do you even know what it says?
Well said 9:06!
Get glasses, that was your mama.
1007
It's not just the COG's that argue these contradictions but the non COG Christians also have their various versions as well. One such is the concept of "Lordship salvation" (LS).
LS is a theological doctrine made popular by the late John McArthur's book, "The Gospel According to Jesus", that asserts that true saving faith in Christ involves not only belief in Him as Savior, but also submission to His Lordship. This means that genuine faith MUST BE accompanied with repentance from sin and a commitment to live an obedient life under Christ's authority. Advocates of this doctrine argue that it contrasts with " easy believism" (free grace theology), which suggests that mere acknowledgment of the gospel is sufficient for salvation. Both The Bible Hub and Wikipedia contain good explanations on this, and you can go on YouTube and here the arguments for and against.
Another controversy similar to this is the Protestant verses Catholic argument concerning "sola fida" (by faith alone), which according to Luther was the principal cause of the Reformation. The Catholic church (the largest Christian denomination of all) rejects sola fida based on scriptures such as John 3:36
(see RSV, NASV, Living), John 6:53-54, Acts 2:38, and James 2:24.
There are 41,000 non-Armstrong Christian denominations and not all believe the same thing. In this regard however the ACOG are probably closer to the Catholic church than they would like to admit.
The large majority of Christians believe that salvific belief will bring works. I think Lordship salvation is obvious in light of "Jesus is Lord" and your willingness to claim Jesus as your Lord leads to salvation. This is different than belief because it is putting you under His authority as your Lord.
Yes, most denominations believe that the Christian will have a change in conduct (faith without works is dead). If you have faith you will be saved, period, but if you don't have works, you don't have faith (with some exceptions perhaps) and you are not saved. Faith is the determinative, if it is there you are saved. If it is not, you aren't. Nothing contradictory there. Works are not law keeping, though they can overlap.
That was my point about non-cog Christians who have oftentimes far better/greater works, but it isn't based in following Sinai law. It is through following Jesus as Lord and the 2 great commandments. Armstrongism focuses on sabbaths and not eating pork (and paying tithes) as the focus that reveals someone belongs to Christ.
1122 writes,
"Most denominations believe that the Christian will have a change in conduct. If you have faith, you will be saved period. But if you don't have works, you don't have faith and you are not saved. Faith is the determative, if it is there you are saved. If not, you are not".
These are valid points, but they also open the door to a denominational game churches play that is indeed very contradictory and open to interpretation. The game of course is, " steps to salvation verses the results (fruit) of salvation". Both the Lordship salvation controversy and the sola fida debate fall into these categories.
So how is the game played? It is primarily based on the questions, WHEN
does that Christian change of conduct you mentioned come, before OR after one is saved? and WHO exactly makes that determination?
One might say, salvation is by faith alone. Nothing else is required, no repentance, baptism, confession, obedience, just faith. All that follows is the fruit of salvation. But what if these other things never come? Then they would say, you weren't saved to begin with, which ultimately makes these things requirements for salvation. No fruit, no salvation right? Walter Martin taught that a belief in the Trinity was required for salvation. Did he say it in those exact words? No, he said if you don't accept the Trinity you are not a Christian. Same thing!!
Also, if one sins after being saved, do they need to ask God for forgiveness? Why would they, to maintain salvation or are they not already saved? What if they don't ask, are they still saved, no longer saved, or wasn't saved in the first place?
Every denomination on the planet, including the ACOG, plays this game. They all have "works" that are required in one way or another and salvation often hangs in the balance. They may disagree on what those works are, but said works determine whether one is saved, not saved, or whether they were saved to begin with.
WHO determines how the game is played and the ultimate outcome? The denominations do, they make the rules and pronounce the end result. It's not just an Armstrong thing, they ALL do it, it's the GAME churches play! I'm surprised Dennis and his atheist buddies haven't jumped on this yet, they would have a field day!
I’ve read all your comments on this post and you seem like an interesting person and free thinker which I appreciate. I came out of COG legalism/brainwashing after being born and raised in it for 35 years. I appreciate the good things I learned. I reject the negative things I learned. I still keep my the holy days and sabbath which look forward to the kingdom. I still tithe which is a personal relationship thing between me and God (I don’t send it mindlessly into a certain CoG headquarters every month). I don’t eat pork. God said not to and it seems like a good way to live …. Etc etc etc…. With that said…. I now know for a fact that there are many Christians out there Who put in my faith to shame And don’t necessarily observe the things I observe. God is working out many for salvation on many different paths. It’s not my job to judge, nor is it anybody else’s job to judge me. At the end of the day, what we will all have in common is that Jesus Christ is our savior and died for our sins and rose again that we may have opportunity for eternal life. There is definitely a spirit in the cogs that is similar to the Catholic and Protestant churches. It’s a spirit that’s in the world and once you step outside and take the red pill and look at everything for what it is you will never be the same. I still visit cog churches from time to time. I enjoy some of the people. I let my kids enjoy the summer camps. My family and I are free now. We choose what serves our family and what doesn’t As we walk with Christ and follow in his footsteps.
BP8,
Yes. Faith in Christ and His sacrifice are all that is needed for salvation. But, if you do not have fruits of a changed life then your faith is dead (doesn't really exist). If one has enough time, faith will yield improvement in one's life. If there is none of that then the individual does not have faith or the Holy Spirit.
These are in no way contradictory.
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