Armstrongism, Paganism and Christianity

Paganism and Christianity

Lonnie Hendrix

For many years now, there has been a narrative extant within some elements of the Christian community (e.g., Jehovah's Witnesses, Armstrong Churches of God, and various anti-Catholic Protestant groups) regarding the pervasive influence of paganism on Traditional Christianity. One of the chief proponents of this narrative was a man by the name of Ralph Woodrow, who authored a small book on the topic titled Babylon Mystery Religion. As Mr. Woodrow has himself admitted, this book was based on a 19th Century work by Alexander Hislop titled The Two Babylons. Unfortunately, even as modern scholarship has discredited both of those works, many of those elements of the Christian community who embraced their narrative have refused to let go of the notion that paganism has seriously tainted/compromised the Traditional Church.

Hislop contended that the Roman Catholic Church was "the Babylon of the Apocalypse." He went on to note "that the essential character of her system, the grand objects of her worship, her festivals, her doctrine and discipline, her rites and ceremonies, her priesthood and their orders, have all been derived from ancient Babylon." Hislop then went on to discourse on the pagan origins of the imagery surrounding the mother and child, Christmas, Easter, the mass, rites and ceremonies, and religious orders. Indeed, Hislop believed that the influence of paganism was so pervasive that it had even extended to Christianity's primary symbol, the cross! He wrote: "The same sign of the cross that Rome now worships was used in the Babylonian Mysteries, was applied by Paganism to the same magic purposes, was honored with the same honors. That which is now called the Christian cross was originally no Christian emblem at all, but was the mystic Tau of the Chaldeans and Egyptians--the true original form of the letter T--the initial of the name of Tammuz." Thus, for Hislop, the Roman Church had clearly been corrupted by paganism.

Then, shortly after I was born, Ralph Woodrow came along and breathed new life into Hislop's notions about paganism's influence on the Church. In his Babylon Mystery Religion, he contrasted paganism's influence on Christianity with the early Church's impact on the pagan world. Woodrow observed: "It was said of those early Christians that they had turned the world upside down! - so powerful was their message and spirit." He continued: "Before too many years had passed, however, men began to set themselves up as 'lords' over God's people in place of the Holy Spirit. Instead of conquering by spiritual means and by truth - as in the early days - men began to substitute their ideas and their methods. Attempts to merge paganism into Christianity were being made even in the days when our New Testament was being written." And, like Hislop before him, Woodrow went on to discourse on Babylon as the "source of false religion." He wrote about mother and child worship, Mary worship, pagan holidays, the cross as a Christian symbol, the mass and relic/idol worship.

Later, however, Woodrow had a change of heart. Of Babylon Mystery Religion he wrote: "My original book had some valuable information in it. But it also contained certain teachings that were made popular in a book many years ago, THE TWO BABYLONS, by Alexander Hislop. This book claims that the very religion of ancient Babylon, under the leadership of Nimrod and his wife, was later disguised with Christian-sounding names, becoming the Roman Catholic Church. Thus, two “Babylons"—one ancient and one modern. Proof for this is sought by citing numerous similarities in paganism. The problem with this method is this: in many cases, there is no connection." For him, further investigation of the origins of certain Christian practices had demonstrated that the connections to paganism were illusory. Indeed, he went on to admit that the methodology which he and Hislop had employed in their treatises on the subject could be used to make almost anything pagan!

Unfortunately, this narrative about the influence of paganism on Christianity contradicts a great deal of what we now know about the history of the rise of that religion. In The Triumph of Christianity, Bart Ehrman noted: "Paganism...was not a single thing." He went on to say: "If we were to define a religion as a coherent system of thought, belief, and practice, with a clearly demarcated set of theological views about the divine being(s) and a prescribed set of rituals to be practiced in reference to them, then none of the so-called pagan religions would probably qualify." Ehrman went on to underscore that most pagans subscribed to some form of polytheism. Both the diffuse and polytheistic nature of these pre-Christian religions can easily be demonstrated by a quick look at the situation in Scotland prior to the work of Saint Columba.

In The Makers of Scotland, Clarkson wrote: "On the eve of their exposure to Christianity in the early centuries AD, the people of ancient Scotland worshipped a pantheon of gods and goddesses. A handful of these deities appear in the archaeological record, but the rest are invisible. Of the identifiable ones, we know little or nothing. In most cases, we can only suppose that they represented aspects of the natural world or of human experience. The total number of native deities at the time of the Roman invasion of Britain is unknown, but some continuity from much older religious beliefs can probably be assumed." Notice, especially, how little is known about these gods and goddesses or the specific manner in which they were worshipped. Indeed, this point is reiterated by Clarkson as the narrative continued. He wrote: The gods and goddesses venerated in the northern parts of pre-Roman Britain are difficult to trace. A female deity worshipped in the middle of the first millennium BC is apparently represented by a large figure, crudely carved in wood, found buried in peat at Ballachulish in Lochaber. Traces of wicker unearthed from the sight might be the remains of a wooden shrine in which she once stood as the centerpiece. Her identity is unknown, but she may be an early example of a Celtic nature goddess. How widely she was venerated is likewise impossible to deduce, but her cult was perhaps fairly localized to the area where her image was unearthed." Hence, again, we see that pagans had many gods, and that very little of their identity and worship has survived into modern times.

In The Triumph of Christianity, Ehrman underscored the fact that "there were gods for every municipality and every family; gods with all sorts of functions: gods connected with love, war, livestock, crops, health, childbirth, and weather; gods associated with specific locations: mountains, streams, meadows, homes, hearths; gods of various abstractions, such as fortune, mercy, and hope; gods connected with elements of nature, like the moon, the sun, the sky, and the sea." He went on to observe that "Polytheism in Roman antiquity was normally an open and welcoming affair. New gods could be added and worshiped at will." Continuing the thought, Ehrman went on to observe that "Because of the open nature of polytheism, there was virtually no such thing as 'conversion.' Anyone who chose to begin worshiping a new god was welcome to do so and was not required or expected to leave behind any previous practices of worship or make an exclusive commitment to this one deity. Outside the world of Judaism, exclusivity - the insistence that only one god be worshipped - was practically unknown." As we will see in just a moment, these features of paganism stood in stark contrast to the new Christian religion.

Moreover, Ehrman went on to point out that "Pagan religions were almost entirely about practice, about doing things, about giving the gods their due - not through mental affirmations of who they were or what they had done, but through ritual actions that showed reverence and devotion." He observed that "Pagan religions were about cultic acts. The word 'cult' comes from the Latin phrase cultus deorum, which literally means 'the care of the gods.' A cultic act is any ritualized practice that is done out of reverence to or worship of the gods. Such activities lay at the heart of pagan religions. Doctrines and ethics did not." Ehrman continued: "Roughly speaking, there were three kinds of activities in pagan religions: sacrificial offerings, prayer, and divination." This, of course, also stood in stark contrast to the new Christian religion - which focused on belief in Jesus Christ and adhering to certain ethical standards.

And, now that we have begun to compare paganism with Christianity and contrast some of the prominent features of both religions, it is appropriate to circle back around and summarize some of our earlier observations about paganism. As we have already observed, unlike Christianity, paganism was parochial in nature. While Christianity focused on One Supreme God of the universe and global salvation, paganism was highly individual and localized in nature. We have also noted that paganism wasn't exclusive. In other words, a person wasn't required to give up their allegiance to a god or gods if they decided to worship another god or gods. Christianity, on the other hand, demanded exclusivity. From the very beginning, Christian missionaries and evangelists demanded that pagans abandon their gods for the One True God of the Christians!

So, where is all of this leading us? What conclusions may we draw from contrasting paganism and Christianity? First, the monotheism of Christianity stands in stark contrast to the polytheism of paganism. Second, the local and personal nature of paganism is at the opposite end of the spectrum from the global nature and aims of Christianity. Third, the exclusivity of Christianity stands in sharp relief against the tolerance of paganism for multiple allegiances relative to the worship of other gods. Fourth, the fact that Christians are associated with a book (the Bible) and a set of beliefs and ethical standards is fundamentally different from the focus on cultic rituals associated with paganism. Fifth, the fact that we know so little about the gods and rituals of the pagans indicates that Christians had a high degree of success in both eradicating those practices and their memories and completely replacing them with their own faith. Hence, the narrative that Christians absorbed - and/or were eventually overwhelmed by - paganism is shown to be inconsistent with what we know and highly improbable. In short, the very nature of the two religions made them enemies of each other and set the stage for an existential contest between them.

Having discussed this phenomenon in very general terms, we will now take a closer look at one of the claims of pagan influence named by the proponents of this narrative. More particularly, we will look at their assertion that the cross is really a pagan symbol. On this subject, Woodrow noted that "It was not until Christianity began to be paganized (or, as some prefer, paganism was Christianized), that the cross image came to be thought of as a Christian symbol." However, this assertion by Woodrow does not even comport with what is revealed in Scripture!

In addition to all of the explicit references to the cross throughout the four gospels of the New Testament, we also have numerous references to the cross as a symbol of the new faith in the other writings that constitute that volume. For instance, Paul references it twice in his first epistle to the saints of Corinth (I Corinthians 1:17-18). Likewise, he referenced the cross as a symbol of the faith several times in his letters to the Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, and Colossians (Galatians 5:11, 6:12, 14, Ephesians 2:16, Philippians 2:8, 3:18, Colossians 1:20, 2:14). Finally, the author of the epistle to the Hebrews encouraged his readers to look to "Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God." (Hebrews 12:2)

And, although the Catholic Encyclopedia, does discuss the fact that the cross was used as a symbol by both the Egyptians and other peoples of the East, it makes clear that the symbol was used by the Christian Church from the earliest times. We read there: "It is not, therefore, altogether strange or inconceivable that, from the beginning of the new religion, the cross should have appeared in Christian homes as an object of religious veneration, although no such monument of the earliest Christian art has been preserved. Early in the third century Clement of Alexandria ('Strom.', VI, in P. G., IX, 305) speaks of the Cross as tou Kyriakou semeiou typon , i.e. signum Christi , 'the symbol of the Lord' (St. Augustine, Tract. cxvii, 'In Joan.'; De Rossi, 'Bull. d'arch. crist', 1863, 35, and 'De titulis christianis Carthaginiensibus' in Pitra, 'Spicilegium Solesmense', IV, 503). The cross, therefore, appears at an early date as an element of the liturgical life of the faithful, and to such an extent that in the first half of the third century Tertullian could publicly designate the Christian body as 'crucis religiosi', i.e. devotees of the Cross (Apol., c. xvi, P. G., I, 365-66). St. Gregory of Tours tells us (De Miraculis S. Martini, I, 80) that in his time Christians habitually had recourse to the sign of the cross." Hence, we see that the cross was employed as a Christian symbol long before the Roman Emperor Constantine had his famous vision.

Concerning that event, Woodrow noted that "An outstanding factor that contributed to the adoration of the cross image within the Romish Church was the famous 'vision of the cross' and subsequent 'conversion' of Constantine." Woodrow then proceeded to recount the famous story of Constantine's vision of a cross and the message that he would be victorious in battle if he used that symbol as his standard. As they say, the rest is history. According to Woodrow, Constantine's victory "did much to further the use of the cross in the Romish Church." However, the flaw in his logic will become immediately apparent to those who have been paying attention to our timeline. In other words, Constantine could never have employed the cross in this capacity if it wasn't already a well-recognized symbol of Christianity!

Now, longtime readers of this blog are already aware that many of the other points which Hislop and Woodrow addressed in their treatises have already been examined here in detail. In times past, we have explored the pagan influences on Christmas, Easter, and some saint's days. Hence, while the narrative about paganism's influence over Traditional Christianity has been extremely popular in some circles, upon closer examination, it simply falls apart - it does not hold up to a thorough review of the available evidence. However unlikely some folks may see it, both the New Testament and secular history make plain that Christianity triumphed over paganism and very nearly eradicated it altogether. Indeed, one only has to look into the practices of modern pagans to discern that most of their practices and rituals derive from the modern period (as very little knowledge of the original practices of those people has survived to our times).



 Sources:

Hislop, Alexander. The Two Babylons or The Papal Worship Proved to be the Worship of Nimrod and His Wife. Presbyterian Free Church of Scotland, 1853.

Woodrow, Ralph. Babylon Mystery Religion. Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association Inc., 1966, 1981.

Woodrow, Ralph. A Message from Ralph Woodrow regarding the book BABYLON MYSTERY RELIGION – No Longer in Publication. Ralph Woodrow Evangelistic Association, Accessed 22 March 2022.

Ehrman, Bart D. The Triumph of Christianity: How A Forbidden Religion Swept the World. Simon and Schuster, 2019

Clarkson, Tim. The Markers of Scotland: Picts, Romans, Gaels and Vikings. Birlinn Ltd., 2019.

Catholic Encyclopedia Online, Archaeology of the Cross and Crucifix, Archæology of the Cross and Crucifix - Encyclopedia Volume - Catholic Encyclopedia - Catholic Online, Accessed 22 March 2022

The King James Version of The Holy Bible

PCG Adults Switching Smartphones For Kids Troomi Phone

 

Imagine being an adult in the Philadelphia Church of God having just bought the latest smartphone and are enjoying the features that make your life more interesting and rewarding. Then the following Sabbath, your Grand Poohbah walks out on stage and plops his fat ass down in his comfy chair, and starts lecturing you about all of the things you are doing wrong as a PCG member. You are used to it though as this is what Sabbath services have been like for several decades. You know you won't hear anything about Christ since you will usually be raked over the coals for some misdeed the Grand Poohbah claims you are doing.

This Sabbath isn't much different until the Grand Poohbah says that loyal followers of God and himself should not be using or even owning smartphones! Well, CRAP! Double CRAP!!

What is a loyal PCG member to do? Keep the phone anyway and use it only when no members are around and leave it in your car when walking into church or getting rid of it and get another phone?

Apparently many PCG members are ditching their smartphones and flocking to buy a phone designed for children. This way they cannot inadvertently open a program and accidentally read all the negative publicity about the PCG! How convenient!

These are some things the Toomi phone restricts for kids, which actually isn't a bad idea, but is foolish for adults that should have the ability to use their god-given mental functions to make their own decisions.

No internet access so PCG members can't read about the negative things about the church or the heretical doctrines it teaches. Best of all though, at $19.95 a month, there is more money to send into The Grand Poohbah! Even better than all of that is if PCG members sign up on the private PCG member page they can get a free phone!

Sadly, even though this is a child's phone, many PCG members who have switched to it do not know how to use it! Wut?

PCG has an article up on its website talking about how to use the phone.

EDMOND—A number of PCG members are switching from smartphones to non-smartphones, including a phone from Troomi. (Phones are available for free to PCG members with the code BILLFREEA12.) Some have found the maps feature to work well, some have found it not to work, and Troomi has said that it is experiencing issues. Below are a few tips that seem to have helped some members fix the issue with Google Maps on the Troomi phone.

Trouble Shooting the Troomi Maps App

This is the world that Gerald Flurry and Lil'Stevie have created and members think it is good. The Churches of God truly get dumber by the day!

Saddest COG Continues Its Downward Spiral

Anyone with an extended period of time in the Armstrong version of the Church of God movement knows full well the "Ambassador Quality" it attempted to use in its publications and videos. Top-notch film crews with state-of-the-art technology pumped out slick propaganda videos that kept the lay members "informed" and supposedly impressed by that "Ambassador Quality". Those days died out with the implosion of the church and the tithe money dried up.

In the meantime, new and improved COG movements popped onto the scene, some literally overnight, attempting to restore the church to its glory days. These churches thought they brought over the brightest and the best when they formed their churches. UCG puts out its own slick church propaganda videos as does Dave Pack. Gerald Flurry has his own top-notch propagandists pumping out more articles, videos, and documentaries than any COG out there.

And then there is this. You only need to watch the first couple of minutes to see how bad it really is. You will know nothing new about this "christ" that embarrasses so many in the COG movement.

The Continuing Church of God is pleased to announce this sermonette from its Continuing COG channel: 

Millions Today Do Not Know Who Christ Really Was

James Martenet uses scripture to explain who Christ Really was. He does so by going over a message once written by the late Herbert W. Armstrong with various biblical quotes.

 

This is yet another version of the public face of the greatest COG to ever exist in human history, the improperly named "continuing" Church of God. Under the direction of the self-appointed, diploma mill Ph.D. "earning" Bwana Bob Thiel, we have seen that "Ambassador Quality" thrown in the nearest trash bin.

From flouncing and bouncing in his chair, seated in front of worn-out threadbare curtains, flanked by crooked bookcases, light switches, and doorknobs, the world's greatest church leader regales us with hilarious videos and poorly made animations. 

Sadly, even his assistant speakers in the church are not any better.

Where would any of these guys be without having to constantly fall back on Herbert Armstrong, even reading his stuff word for word in sermonettes and sermons? Does any speaker in the COG movement have a brain that can actually think differently and speak with their own personal integrity and research? Apparently not in the improperly named "continuing" Church of God.

Thankfully, this lets us all witness firsthand the downward spiral of the Armstrongite movement into nothingness.

PCG: Satan Attacks Gerald Flurry In Jerusalem - Hilarity Ensues!

 

Gerald Flurry hopped onto his vanity jet the other day and headed off to Jerusalem so he could educate them on how things really should be done because after all, he is a COG leader and knows EVERYTHING when it comes to biblical archeology and the Bible!

Once Flurry arrived in Jerusalem and since it is so close to Passover when Satan is always angry at the true church, he caused a water line to break. 

GF gave an “update” on his Jerusalem trip when he spoke from Edstone on the 12th. It was an exceedingly boring sermon, but I’ll mention a few things and comment on some. 

 

He told a lot of their woes after they got there; e.g., water line broke on the Sabbath. But “Satan attacks his church this time of year.” 

After that torturous day of Satan attacking them, Big Daddy and Lil'Stevie decided to go out for dinner where unbeknownst to them Satan was waiting in the kitchen and was cooking their food!!!!!!!!!!!!

The only “exciting part of the sermon” was when he told how there was “something toxic” in the food he ate for breakfast at this fine restaurant he and his son went to and so he proceeded to tell how he was vomiting all over his suit and almost fainting and being shaky. (I had to wonder if someone tried to poison him.) He said he said to himself at that time, “I have two to three seconds to live.” SF took him to his room, cleaned him up, and he slept all afternoon and that night. He said that “God healed him” from that. He further noted that there weren’t a lot of people in the restaurant when that incident happened and if there were he would have been taken the hospital and quarantined a long time. 

Flurry then continues on telling his listeners how close to death he came and that he was just like Herbert Armstrong who claimed was resurrected from the dead after having a heart attack in Arizona. To further humiliate Satan, Flurry's "christ" kept him alive so he can be here when that "christ" arrives to be crowned King of Kings on Flurry's coronation chair.

He had to bring up about HWA being sick several times and the time HWA said “he died” and came back to life. He even added that there are some Scriptures that he (GF) “may live until Jesus Christ returns.” He let them know that he will be 87 pretty soon but in good health. 

 

Then I don’t know if he was putting on an act or what, but he started to break up and almost start crying when he said his son “takes good care of him.” He said he has “been blessed with so much loyalty–and all the ministers are loyal and it’s so different than what happened with HWA.” (They are “loyal” because ministers are mostly all related to each other so as not to take a chance on someone being a traitor from the inside.) 

Afterward, once God in his divine mercy healed Flurry from this Satanic onslaught and needing to spend more tithe money, he hopped on his vanity jet and flew to England to visit his indoctrination "college" in Edstone. Remember, Edstone was Flurry's second choice for an English campus after being humiliated by the owners of Bricket Wood campus (now being developed onto luxury homes) when they refused to sell to him. Plus, Edstone was as close as he could get to three significant artifacts in COG mythology - the Stone of Scone and the coronation chair, Hill Tara in Ireland, and the ark of the covenant, which Flurry believes was buried there by Jeremiah and his daughters. The Edstone campus would give them convenient access to hop on a ferry to Ireland and start digging up Hill Tara when the time is right. 

In addition to this amazing prophetic activity, Edstone gives them the quickest access to Scotland when Flurry and Lil'Stevie go up there and demand that Scotland turn over the Stone of Scone to them. Scotland will willingly do this when they see that Flurry's church is David's true descendants and is preparing the way for some creature they call "christ" to come back and sit on it. This way Scotland doesn't need to fly it over to Edmond, Oklahoma where Herb's prayer rock is enshrined as a replacement. Once Scotland gives Flurry the Stone of Scone, he can then put it on his jet and fly it to Jerusalem where his "christ" will be coming to sit on it after first touring the mind-boggling CORRECT version of Biblical archeology at the Armstrong Institute of Biblical Archaeology.

While there Flurry spoke about Herbert working with the university in Jerusalem on archeology digs and the great COG myth that its members are being trained to be world rulers. Flurry also boasted that what they are doing in Jerusalem with their institute is far more IMPORTANT than what is happening in Ukraine today.

Talked about HWA’s “deal” with Jerusalem University; “getting rid of the Putins of this world”; and “we are getting ready to rule.” He said what they are doing in Jerusalem is “more important than what is going on in Ukraine.” 

Flurry then reminded his few tiny group of listeners in Edstone that Herbert Armstrong's co-worker letters were so spiritually important that they needed to read one of them over and over and mark it up. After all, Herb's letters are more important than the Bible, particularly that part so-called Christians call the New Testament.

He read a lot from an old HWA co-worker letter about Jerusalem that he said was a “classic” and that they need to get it, read it over, and mark it up. 

 

“God is going to use us and we are going to be tried and tested.” They have to “dig down to the original palace of David–the original Jerusalem.” (As if Christ will not be able to do what needs to be done when He reigns. It’s all up to PCG.) 

Flurry then waxed eloquently on how the world will soon be listening to him and the church, the elect, who will soon be joining up with Flurry's god so they can give the world's leaders and rebellious citizens a "taste of their own medicine".

The world won’t listen but “they will listen before this is all over with and God is going to let them [men like Putin] know what it’s like to be on the receiving end.” He even used the words, “give them a taste of their own medicine.” He believes that Putin will use a nuclear bomb “before this is all over with,” and “these men are beasts.” 

Flurry claims he and his work are the ones blowing the real shofar in Israel.

 “Our job is get that message out there.” “Who is blowing the shofar today? This is all about our work.” 

The writer of this letter, posted on Exit and Support Network, ended with this:

This sermon was his most boring, drawn-out one to date in spite of him getting his audience to laugh loudly several times. 

 

There was nothing in this sermon to help people know how to have a closer relationship with Christ. –PCG source March 19, 2022 

 

 

Prophet Roach: Took His Powerful Witness to Waffle House and was Ignored…Until...

 

We reported the other day about the Church of God's newest prophet, Tony Roach, that pushed Bwana Bobalina Thiel off his self-righteous pedestal.

Roach says God has given him information in a dream, just like Bob Thiel claims. Roach also had multiple dreams, just like the false prophet Thiel. Which one is right? Thiel will claim Roach is not receiving godly dreams like he does.

A reader here asked our most accurate prophet a few questions. Here is what transpired.

Reader asks:

I read a bit about what you wrote. You said you knew something was going to happen on 9/11 and wrote to several TV news casts along with President Bush. They ignored you till it happened. Then they were calling you constantly. My question is what exactly did you say in your letters and how did you know about 9/11? Was It a dream that or something like that? And also what did the press say to you assuming you talked to them or left you a voice message. I'd appreciate your reply.

Tony's reply:

No the news station never contacted me but everyone I had told along the way was calling me> I was over all the Waffle Houses from Tallahassee to Destine so I met a lot of people and I was telling everyone that would listen... No one believed... Until the day it happened and everyone was calling me amazed... The way God shows me things.... One through the scriptures reading and searching them daily.... two when I speak with people about the Bible many times I'll tell them it's not for their benefit because they will continue on never to think of it again.... But while I'm speaking with them... It will just come out of my mouth like I've known it all along.... Or when I'm answering emails through my website it happens also... Now the dates I'm releasing now after God showed them to me I would ot release them because I did not want the evil to know.... I'm hard headed... So He gave me a dream... So I released 2 of the dates... But would not release the others.... So He gave me another dream and told me release them and He would handle it when He gets here.. Trying to save space... All this on one of my post on Facebook and my website... Now 9/11 it just came out of my mouth one night and I counted the days of Daniel... Ended up with the date the WWCOG sold the church warned everyone... Counted the dates from when they changed the Sabbath and no longer was required to keep it to come up with 9/11... Then God led me through the scriptures showing me the verse of what would happen on that day...

Reader:

Thanks for answering my question. I won't take up too much of your time but I've got to ask these 2 next questions: you claim to be a prophet but you need some proof to back your word up for obvious reasons because it seems everyone and their grandma claims to be a prophet these days. Lol. Do you have undeniable proof from your past, other than telling your friends about 9/11? Because I've only known about you a few days and I need more to consider someone being a prophet. And secondly you prophecied 9/16/23 as a day "sound an alarm for the War of Armageddon." For arguments sake, what if that doesn't happen? Will you admit you're not a prophet or will you do what Ron Weinland did and say God changed his mind and will give mankind more time?

Tony:

LOL... God never changes..... In Malachi 3:6 it is recorded.. "For I am the LORD, I CHANGE NOT... It will happen my God is not a deceiver... I never listen to man... Only God.... No offense but I never feel I have to prove myself to any man.... I tell everyone Never believe me... Prove all things.... and search the scriptures daily to prove these things are so... The only way to prove these dates is wait and see. or seek the Lord with ALL your heart and soul.... And be tho perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect.... I NEVER assume anything... No private interpretations.... Now if I am wrong on anything I will be the first to say so... I'm not infallible.... And that's why I will always know I have the truth.... I am willing to admit when I am wrong.... And one more thing as you see by Isaiah 48 that I included with the chart... It is not me foretelling these things... It is God... He wanted me to put those verses with the chart...

Reader:

I understand. I will keep 9/16/23 in mind and see how it plays out. Thanks for your time

Tony:

Anytime you have a question feel free to ask... I have several post on my page showing more into my life... If you would like to read them.... Maybe give you a better insight into my soul... But man I'm nothing... I'm No One... I have sinned in my past much worse than you probably... Don't think of me.... I'm No One... God uses me because I'm hard headed and won't give an inch... I enjoyed talking with you and hope to be able to do it again sometimes....

One thing I do have to hand to Roach is that he will answer questions about what he predicts. Thiel will not. Thiel knows he will get raked over the coals and exposed as the liar he is. This is one of the reasons people mock Thiel so much.

Roach is as big a fraud as Thiel is, but at least with Roach you probably would be made to feel right at home with him in a conversation. With Thiel, if he would even dare share his righteousness and his holy space with you, would ignore you and piss you off immediately.

More from his Facebook Page:

"God had a job for me to do and that was to release these dates... I was hard headed not wanting to release these dates... I did not want the evil of this world to know.... I am jealous of my God as He is me... He had to give me two dreams before my hard head would release these dates... After the first dream I released only two...I would not release the others... After the second dream He told me to put it out there and He would handle it when he comes... So I did... I am NOT a preacher if I was to preach to you I would just overload your mind and you would have a meltdown... I am a SEER only because of my Great Lord Jesus Christ... NOT for my righteousness... I am exactly what He says I am... I am base, poor, foolish and week... I am hated by the world... I understand Jealousy provokes you to anger... I can understand that I'm very Jealous of my Lord... But I am No One... Just a dusty dirt road God has made me from and there I will return.. But I love the Lord with ALL my heart... I fear the Lord with ALL my soul... And I sought the Lord many years ago with ALL my heart and ALL my soul... I could NOT care less if you believe a word that proceedeth out of my mouth... Most of the time I never know what is going to come out of my mouth... When I prophecy the words just come out of my mouth like I’ve always new it... I have a job to do not for man but for my Awesome Lord... I knew you would deal very treacherously with me and I know you are called a transgressor from the womb.... But I am here with the knowledge, wisdom, secrets, and mysteries of God.... For you to reject my Dear Lord one last time... So believe it or NOT I could NOT care less...."

 

"At Armstrong's death God gave me the job at the age of 27 to keep His Word and lead His people... I had a thirst for the Word of God like I can't even describe... He started pouring wisdom and knowledge in me like I was an empty vase... I had no idea that was what He was doing... I started my website just to have a place to keep my notes..."  Facebook page