August is:
International Medications
NOT Congregations Month!
Men With Strange and Weird Ideas Never
Recognize
Their Ideas Are Strange and Weird
Some things just beg for a reminder...If you are
tired of hearing this quote then stop reading immediately. David Pack said
this approximately five months before he split from Global Church of God and
started his own version based on strange and weird ideas about himself he could
no longer suppress. He is doing it again with his own version of the One
True Church but this time splitting from himself.
"I want to make a statement about...me...now, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you if I go off into strange ideas, misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."David C. Pack
First of all, please realize that I recognize
that I have quoted this December 1998 quote a number of times. Why?
Because it is classic and tells one all they need to know about how one man
thinks and WHEN this occurs, as it is obvious the man is concerned about
actually happening now that he is in charge, this is exactly how it will play
out. This is David Pack's premier prophecy about what would be coming both to
his tenure with Global and now once again to RCG. While the obligatory
disclaimer of "But I'll tell you what, I am not going anywhere," is also a
relatively sincere statement of mind that is somewhat clear of strange and weird
ideas at that moment, but the Genie begs to be free of the
bottle. Dave has probably entertained many strange and
weird ideas about himself in ministry and his calling over the years and now
that he is on his own with no over site and no accountability, it will become
very difficult to repress and suppress them in the future.
That time of having to deal with strange and
weird ideas has come for David C. Pack and the members of his
Restored Church of God. The problem seems to be that, as predicted, Dave
would be able to deceive them, explain away why these strange and weird ideas
aren't strange and weird at all and few if any of them will actually repeat
Dave's warning to them about him back to him. The track record for those
that try to repeat anything back to Dave of a cautionary nature has never been
good for the those that attempt such things. He can be a bit intimidating at
least in a cloistered setting.
I want to make a statement about me..
now...
If I see that David C. Pack is deceived...I simply need to point it
out.
(sorry couldn't
resist).
I grew up in an extremely stable home where
dad went to work at 7 and was home by 5 every night, five days a week for
decades. Everyone had every weekend off and we vacationed in the
Adirondacks two weeks out of every year for as long as i can remember.
Days of fishing, laughing, swimming, exploring and quiet time that I have ever
since craved. Fresh water lakes, the smell of gasoline in an outboard and
worms stored in wet newspaper for fishing are strong memories. We ate every
evening meal together and we liked doing it. Church was twice a Sunday
event and I can't remember one sermon the pastor ever gave, but they were good,
easy on the mind and gentle.
In a Dutch Orthodox Church you learned the Bible,
Old Testament and New. In school I memorize whole chapters to say them
PERFECTLY in competitions with others. By the time I went to Ambassador
College there was no story or place in the Bible I had not already soaked
in.....except Revelation, which never ever came up in any context I can
remember. Thus, that was the hook that attracted me to WCG along with what
seemed to be a bigger picture as to how it all fit together. By the time I
was in High School, I knew i wanted to go to seminary and pastor. It
seemed the best and highest calling and fit my stable background and
upbringing. I had been accepted to Roberts Wesleyan Seminary in Rochester,
but chose you know where.... If I had chosen RWS instead of WCG, the story
would have been different but I know very well I would have come to the same
conclusions living out that story as I did with WCG. My regret is that no
seminary or church is going to tell you what your really need to know to make a
right decision about the Bible.
In either story I KNOW I would have come to
see the Bible has its problems. . It is not without major errors and
contradictions. It did not come from where one thinks it did and it is
highly political. There never was one true church even it's pages and all
never did believe the same thing about Jesus. Whole books were not written
by the names affixed and it is not one seamless , coherent text. It
contains bad science and is not a treatise on where humans came from or how the
Universe organized itself.
The Gospels may indeed be a huge passion play
written to bring Jesus, yet another Sun of God , down to earth and literalize
the journey of the Sun through the 12 signs of the Zodiac. Paul's
Jesus was cosmic in scope, never lived a real life on earth for the most part,
never met or quoted by Paul and was crucified in the heavens by evil forces in
the sky. Paul's Jesus was hallucinatory in his mind. When Jesus gave
things to Paul, it was in visions. Gospel Jesus never heard of Paul and
Paul never heard of Gospel Jesus even though Paul brags on being the best
Pharisee in Jerusalem under the best teacher, which I doubt. Paul's
Jesus comes first in the NT and then Gospel Jesus but the current order of the
NT gives a different impression of what was really going on. I spare
us....
The World Wide Church of God and all the
characters, like the Armstrongs, Tkaches, Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack and too many
others slowly drove me into the very anxiety and fear I was probably trying to
dampen down as a kid, as I perceived the world, by going to it in the
first place. I also had a blind, deaf and non-speaking brother I had
to fix along with all his friends at the State Hospital in Newark, NY.
where I spent every Sunday afternoon between Church for 15 years. I
spent years pastoring but in denial of what was going on around me in "THE
Church". In my experience, the stable, open minded and
good hearted actual minister types always lost out to the loons. I
realized that my coping skills were not good and I attribute that to that
stability of youth where I didn't know what coping was.
No minister in my youth ever remotely made the
kinds of statements about themselves or even the Church that we see in these
loose cannons produced by the WCG implosion. Of course many made such statements
as part of WCG. No man in ministry in my experience would ever spend
two seconds explaining to me why he was special. Jesus would get here
when he got here but since everyone was going to heaven and no Hell was
discussed, don't base your life on those statements in scripture. Wish I
had listened. No Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists, Watchers, Witnesses or Wackos
need apply. It just never came up. If it had, that man would have
been looking for work by the next day. The ministers in my pre-WCG days
did not control the congregation. They served it. They could also be
dismissed by it.
They were called to encourage it and teach
balanced living and doctrine. No minister would ever remotely
think to utter the insane words nor give the kinds of sermons seen in the ego
cults of a Gerald Flurry or a Dave Pack. Their training was of a
quality that would never allow that and their understanding of the Bible was
much more realistic. They were not God Haunted men. They were not
given to scriptural fantasy about their importance and probably would either
fall out laughing at a Dave Pack or say that the man needed to be out of
ministry and on medications. They were simply ministers, in my
experience, of the hope that lay within them too and they wanted to share
it. I am sorry for the difficult time I gave him as a kid over all things
Bible, but I am not so sorry today giving the likes of Dave Pack a hard
time. The difference is that my childhood ministers were very fine ,
stable , highly theologically educated and caring men. Dave Pack does not
rate this kind of respect with all his strange and weird ideas about himself as
does Gerald Flurry not.
David C. Pack, aka Joshua C Pack, Joshua W.
Packstrong, Joshua W. Armpack, David W. Armstrong, is spewing the strange and
weird ideas he warned his congregation to be on the lookout for and call him out
on. He is getting away with it just fine.
"I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? "
The "brethren" obviously didn't and still don't
understand what Dave was saying. I'm not in Dave's Church. I'm not
under his control. I'm not into his self view. I know the Bible does
not mean in Haggai what Dave wants it to mean about himself.
But I am going to do as Dave instructed. I am going to
quote it right back to him.
Where in the world of the Christian religion do
ministers invest so much time and effort into telling their congregations just
who they are, where they stand in the pecking order of "God's form of
Government," and how you need to respect that first and foremost? Where
else do men spend hours preaching self ordinations to Apostle, Priest or
Prophet. Dr Bob Thiel is simply hilarious to have the need to find a
'double blessing" in an anointing for feeling a bit under the weather as a sign
that he now is a Prophet. Simply hilarious. In the world of my youth, he'd
only attract incredulous forehead slapping. The reason these guys can't
say the word "Jesus" in their musings is because they aren't of Jesus. They are
of Armstrong plain and simple. Dave Pack could never be of Apollos because
he IS Apollos in his mind. Of course all claim to be "of
Christ." That word works for all of them.
Where in any balanced Christian ministry would
you hear...
"Yeah, I know, one or two can leave and say, 'Hey, you stopped preaching and started meddling, now you're messing with my goods here on earth' ""First Timothy 6 verse 17...'Charge them that are rich in this world'...If you were born in the United States, Britain, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand, then you're rich""If you hold those riches, I'm telling you, you trust in them""Go get a big chunk out of your home. And put your money where your mouth is and send it here. And I'm not talking about one, two, three thousand either. How about ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, or one hundred thousand dollars? Go do it."
"Wives, you can be independent in this.
You have 1/2
the worth of whatever you have in your house.
I'm officially telling
you this...Wives, legally you have the 1/2 the funds.
What are you going to do
about it?...
Husbands...'well, my wife is not in the church'
...tell her...'you don't have a voice woman' "
"Go get those assets
and get them here"
David C. Pack
David C. Pack
The Clarion Call
The answer is nowhere where any real minister
helping people's joy pastored. If you sit through a harangue like that and think
it is acceptable and appropriate, you are also insane.
Outside of the kinds of people that are
evidently drawn to these guys, where do you find those that would ever tolerate
their minister saying that a minor prophet in the Old Testament, Haggai, which
they would have to check the index to find, foretells a future Joshua the
High Priest who would reunite ALL and their pastor just happens to be this
fanciful character? What kind of insane stupidity is
that? I dare Dave Pack to clearly
explain to his television audience his view of himself as spoken of by the
"prophet" Haggai. I dare
him. Herbert
Armstrong never had the guts to actually preach the Gospel to "Kings" or
explain just who he thought he was which he actually wasn't. I am
sure Dave will explain it in terms of "a strong voice from somewhere," but never
quite get around to explaining the details of just who this strong voice thinks
he is and where he is spoken of in the Bible 2500 years ago. Dave can't
tell the truth of his delusions to the public or instead of sending it in all
he'll hear is "click." Come on Dave, give that "I am Joshua the High
Priest spoken of in the minor Prophet Haggai in the 6th century BCE"
broadcast....
Where in the world of Christianity do you find
Bob Jones University the First, Second and Third? Nowhere. Bob
Jones University has it's drop outs, splits and detractors all very similar to
those that WCG brought on itself. There are the conservatives who went
bonkers over letting blacks in. There are liberals (by comparison but
still sticklers for law and order) who want Bob Jones the 3rd or 4th , I forget,
to lighten up, which he did. That always happens down the road. Bob
Jones the First thundered, "It will be over my dead body that there will ever be
kissing on this campus." BJ the First is buried on the campus so guess
where the kids go to kiss? They have a gay and lesbian community on campus
they are in absolute denial over. Former students and pastors walk around
the outside with protest signs over one issue or the other. A security
guard shot into a car that did not stop at the security entrance a while back.
The really big Baptist church across the street form the entrance is off limits
to students as it pastored by a rebellious and off track former graduate.
But nowhere on earth is someone building more true Bob
Jones campuses to lure the super in the know students to and to
follow the reincarnated Bob Jones the First.
The reason Pack and Flurry built their personal
and physical plants is for control. In their minds they actually think
there is NO other place on earth where one can get a theological education of
the correct perspective, which is insane.
These are men who simply cannot work WITH others
or FOR others. They are LTC's. Loose Theological Cannons, or Canons.
And they are wrong about themselves. Herbert was never really
"Zeurbbabel." Dave Pack is no real Joshua and Gerald Flurry is not
really "That Prophet." Make an analogy if you wish, but these
men aren't making analogies. They are lying to themselves and others and making
scripture mean what it never meant.
That sucking sound is indeed your tithes and
offerings going down the drain to pay for lights, heat , air, water, fountains,
landscaping, buildings , faculty homes, cars, electric carts , land and
security. But Our Lord is coming SOON as Dave reinvents the
wheel. It also shows most learned nothing from the Armstrong/Tkach
experience with such things.
What kind people tolerate a pastor who scoffs at
an ultimately will forbid research on topics or papers written and
discussed when needed? How brain dead does one have to be to never
question the decisions, ideas or expenditures of the pastor? Who never
questions their boss or disagrees with a long dead religious figure?
This kind of congregation needs to invest in large group meds until they clear
the fog of compliance and personal boundries. Why would one person get all
the power to decide while the majority has no say in what is said, done,
imagined, spent or built with their contributions? People are
nuts.
The idea that one small, very small group of
religious people are God's favorite and chosen is both repulsive and
ludicrous. People get so used to comparing themselves with the early
Christians, who actually all believed many crazy and ludicrous things themselves
about themselves at that time as well, Back then, THEY were going to be
changed. THEY would not all die. THEY were the chosen nation and
priesthood and people of God's own. THEY would live to see it all come
down and Jesus to return. THEY would be protected and caught up.
THEY would see the Kingdom of God SOON. THEY WERE WRONG... The need
to be special far overshadows the need to be correct. Of course they think they
are both special AND correct and that tick won't let go.
" Do you understand what I'm saying
brethren?
Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived,
I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...
And I hope you'll remember it
well enough to quote it right back to me...
But I'll tell you what, I'm not going
anywhere."
Dave's already gone somewhere and the "brethren"
are either afraid to speak up , which with Dave Pack you would do well to pay
attention to and there is a price to pay for, or oblivious to what is
happening. Dave offered this as a lifetime challenge to all with whom he
comes into contact with in his ministerial future. In that time he has gone from
just one of the minister to Apostle, Priest, Watcher and now the really
real meaning of Haggai in the form of Joshua he HIGH Priest...and he ain't
kidding. It is not an analogy.
If these aren't strange and weird ideas to the
members of the Restored Church of God, what on earth would it take for you to
suspect one?
Anyone besides me quoting Dave back to
Dave?
I do wish all of us/you a very
blessed
International Medications Not Congregations
Month
of August....
And please, Larry, Moe and Curly of three
splinters,
as David C Pack no doubt defines you as...
PLEASE take good care of
yourself and we'll get through this just fine.
