Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
He has assigned the task to the Apostle David C Pack
"WE never understood it until now! We didn't see it!"
"I have never quite seen what God is doing as I have now"
I will make this absolutely and irrefutably clear as never before. The Math is correct. We are right on target. It can be no other way! We are absolutely right on target.
This is powerful!
Easy Peasy beyond belief
"Hold on! Hold on! I'm getting another message from God. Assemble the staff! Assemble the employees! Ministry listen up!
It's Sunday! No, Trumpets! No! While we are in our cars going home from the Feast! No wait! Hold on...Halloween!
My beautiful mind is flashing!
Boom! Wait a minute!
"Anytime you get confused, listen to the last two sermons"
I'm not obsessed with my calling
It's this Thursday...
Truly, this time...this is the end of the series!!!!
This "simplicity that is in Christ" is complicated Mr Pack...
2 Corinthians 11:3
“But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.”
I would encourage the Restored Church of God ministry gift Dave with a copy of the New Testament before it's too late. It almost is. Perhaps you could read it yourselves?
...because the Apostle Pack is widely known for his speculative, mistaken and delusional "much speaking" and you're going to be looking for honest and meaningful work soon unless you wake Dave up.
Having once been a pastor for WCG and experience in 14 congregations scattered across 5 states over 26 years, I believe I know how the ministry of that organization worked. I knew many very sincere, quietly serving and believing pastors and elders. They were no different than pastors in any other denomination. You probably don't remember their names. They weren't the Dave Pack's, Ron Weinland and Gerald Flurrys of the ministry. For whatever reason, buffoons and theologically challenged salesman rose to the bottom ("the top") while those given to ministry mostly realized they made a mistake in their youth believing that the message of WCG and the Bible were one. . The drama over the heads of the average minister was unending. Personally, I suppressed my doubts, fears and observations about just how this WCG thing was all going. I had moments where I thought it would clarify and common sense would reign, but someone always cancelled common sense. HWA was good at that, and Joe Tkach Sr and Jr simply never heard of it. Others of you may know of other motives they may have had but all I can come up with is that they were fools.
Dave Pack is particularly a symbol to me of all that I never spoke up about. That is never going to happen again of course, and the MOTIVE is to help others see and wake up. No one can make a decision on such matters for a member of any group lead by one man with no common sense and perhaps even mental challenges, but I can encourage eyes to open as do others here. I'm a firm believer in being where one is when they are there until they aren't there any longer. Waking up is a process. It does not come for everyone, and others would say I am the one asleep so it's all subject to one's personal view of their story.
We are all breathlessly waiting on Dave's last, last message about Haggai and his calling as Joshua the High Priest as spoken of in that minor prophet. Of course, it is all baloney and Dave just seems to have too much time on his hands to think about himself. I suspect there is trouble in Wadsworth, but we'll see. I am sure Dave has come to the point where he simply just wants this problem, he caused in his own credibility to go away. It takes a long time to reweave something to make it look like it was never full of holes. It will prove to be the single greatest public mistake Dave Pack ever made yet. (This was 2013. We all now know there was much more to come by 2022) in what he considers to be his view of himself in the Wild World of God Churches.
Most of us here have read Dave's questionnaire and litmus test for returning ministers should they wish to hitch their star to the Restored Church of God. No real man much less minister, in my view, would ever answer to Dave's satisfaction any of these questions. Dave simply wishes to remodel others in his own image and that is going to take work and leaving one's soul at the door of Dave's office. Any man who joins Restored Church as a minister is simply a yes man.
Dave Pack is particularly judgmental, mostly mental, when it comes to what he demands of others and how they "should" or "must" be. Dave is big on "should-Ing" on others and quite a "must-rabator" in my view of him as I read his screeds.
Here is how he views ministers other than himself and the zombies he has already created for his ministry. From his open letter to the ministry of July 12, 2013. Admittedly, I could not resist applying.
DAVE ANNOUNCES:
"Instead, while this announcement will correct you, it will alsoinspire and surprise you. It includes a series of questions to consider in advance of the Haggai prophecy fulfillment. The goal is to lift you with hope for the future. Another purpose of these announcements has been to awaken in ministers a remembrance of the governmentof God at work in His Church. If you are reading with an open mind you will understand that what is written is, in part, an appeal designed to get your attention and return you to your true role and calling. You once firmly believed that Jesus Christ had installed you into the office you held within His unified Body. (Yet hundreds of you went on to reduce your God-ordained office to mere “elder.”) Hopefully many of you still believe as you once did."
Dave shows his contempt for "low office" in the COGs. He has never gotten over being sent to work for others back in the day when someone at least tried to tell him he was hardly the kind of man that qualified as a "helper of your joy." He is the SAME today as he was then, and I was told by the man who was asked to try and help Dave out that he'd never change. Dave got "demoted" and it really rankled him. Now he can reveal this with his "mere" elder view. Notice he did not emphasize the word "mere" as in it's not really a small thing. He emphasized "elder" as meaning it really is a low office unworthy of himself. Dave is projecting his own contempt on to what the ministry out there should not want to tolerate since they used to have "higher" offices. Lame.. "He that is greatest among you, let him be your servant..."
DAVE CONTINUES...
"Tragically, some will make the wrong decision and lose eternal life. Consider carefully your actions. Your record is being written. Judgment is now on the house of God (I Pet. 4:17). You know human beings. You know they will broadcast what happened in your pastorate. (Future announcements will explain EXACTLY what God says will happen to everyone who does not come—one of three things, none good.)" What kind of of BS is this? Dave decides what a wrong decision is and the consequences of it all for that person. Words of a fool. Dave Pack has not had the best track record of late in explaining anything "EXACTLY" so I'd not worry about the three nongood things in store for such losers. I can think of a few more than three things, nongood, in store for Dave Pack as this railroad he is building rolls on.
Here's a few points from his litmus test for RCG ministry Zombies to be that are particularly offensive and ill informed.
DAVE ASKS...
(3) Established Doctrine and Tradition
In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—be specific.)
Most of them. HWA had no formal theological training and hunt and pecked his way through the Bible for answers to questions which then became THE answers to our own at one time.
(4) Did you actively resist false doctrine in your ministry? —or give safe sermons where you disagreed? (Be specific.)
I don't think I ever gave a safe sermon. That came later when the Tkaches turned sermon giving into ridiculous double talk. You haven't lived until you had to be told Hank Hanagraaf , the Bible Answer Man, was someone you should look to. Personally, during those days, I read books on topics the WCG never addressed. For the past few years, you here at BannedHWA have been subjected mercilessly to those results. Your results may vary...
6) Why should you still be considered for the ministry in God’s Church?
Why should God’s flock ever again be entrusted to your care?
Are you prepared to re-win brethren’s trust, including brethren now here whom you will likely also pastor? What about re-winning the trust of Headquarters?
This is pure Dave Pack WCG/Global resentment bubbling up in his demands on ministry. Re-winning the trust of the brethren but in particular of Dave Pack sounds like something out of WWII. "Are you prepared to re-win the trust of the SS and of Berlin?" Personally, I'd not want to be trusted by Dave because it would mean I was dead inside.
(9) Do you now believe again that Christ works solely through one unified organization?
No sorry, can't do that one. Certainly not RCG
(10) In light of government(s) you followed, how do you see God’s government today?
Totally screwed up and not really an issue.
(15) Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?
No, you weren't so why should I have to put up with that? Goose and Gander stuff here. What? You think I want to be a mere Elder!!!???
(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you requalify?
After your recent flub ups and misreading of Haggai, are you?
(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true ministry?
I'll show you my "Pastor Credentials" if you show me your "Watcher", "Apostle," "Joshua the High Priest" ones... I want to see signatures and seals of approval.
(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:
Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
Where you disagree doctrinally?
Oh man yeah! You do it all the time. I'm sensing the resentment of the crushing defeat you felt you experienced in the past here. In real life Dave, all men are equal, and input is a good thing. Have you ever read "In the multitude of counselors there is safety"? Do you know why you are in the Haggai fix you are in? It is because you would abide no real input. You fired the one minister who warned you about overbuilding and the Joshua thing. You kept the lackeys and mere agreers.
(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):
Weak
Cowardly
Slothful
Covetous
Confused
Compromising
Foolish
Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
Heretical
Deceitful
Easily deceived
Betrayed your calling
(You can tell the longer Dave makes this list of questions, the angrier about his being snubbed in the past he becomes. Dave, do you consider yourself as being arrogant, ill informed, mislead, full of yourself, dictatorial, silly, untrained, goofy, confused, foolish, deceitful and in need of some counseling?
(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)? —and for so long?
I didn't or I'd not be writing this....
(22) What do you consider to be your ministerial rank?
Genuine Human Being (Dave has always loved numbers and ranks)
(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?
You first Dave...they don't call much of your ministry "the trail of tears" for nothing.
(24) In light of how you once saw Mr. Armstrong, do you still recognize the fruits of a true apostle when you see one?
Probably not and it would not be you if I did.
(25) Describe your spiritual condition today. (Also, rate your temperature from 0-10, with 10 the highest.)
Deeply spiritual and non-religious. 98.6
(26) What 5 biggest lessons did you learn from and since the apostasy? (In order of importance.)
1. Organized Religion is an Oxymoron
2. Rank is an odor
3. Clowns rise to the top
4. The Bible has problems with itself
5. You're delusional
(29) Having now long abandoned many doctrines you said you would never leave; how would you convince Headquarters that this time you “mean it” if you intend to now “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11)?
I would lie and act all emotional, cry, beat my chest, whine, beg and try to perceive what you needed to see from me to fool you into thinking I wasn't "Joshin'" ya.
(31) Are you prepared to spend a full year (or more) catching up with all you must unlearn, relearn, and learn new?
Will I get paid? Otherwise, no. (Will you since we now have ten more years of your foolish sheepherding and prophetic gibberish.)
(33) How would you prove that you are still Spirit-led? —or were ever Spirit-led?
Raise the dead? Heal the man with one arm? Hear the voice of Jesus in my head telling me you are to be obeyed? Whatever works I guess. Tell you that you are awesome? "But I tell you brethren, I'm going nowhere" with Dave Pack.
(35) What did you do after reading the article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!”?
Laughed and thought to myself what kind of a fool would come up with this stuff... I'm not a fan of that "soon" stuff. What did you do Dave after God's people kinda didn't show up? Just askin'
Anyway, stay tuned for Dave's final wrap up of the awesome and amazing prophecy/parallel of Haggai in which God, for 3000 years really, was preparing the world for David C Pack...
NOTE: ...and another ten years of Dave Pack's ministry and even more foolish and delusional theology.
David C. Pack continued his tradition of ruining the Sabbath for everyone at the Headquarters of The Restored Church of God this past weekend. Not only did the local brethren get to enjoy extended inaccurate biblical nonsense, but all the teens whose parents made them go to Ambassador Youth Camp had to rush past their dessert to sit through “The Greatest Unending Story! (Part 385).”
@ 00:03 Well, as I often say, “Here we are again.” …it’s crucial and it will leave you with a sense of peace maybe you’ve not had before.
After listening to the whole message, I actually found it to be quite disturbing. And that was because I was trying to understand it. By the end of this, did anyone in the room have any inkling of peace?
I have planned on writing an article titled, “Is David C. Pack A Man Of His Word?” That question is rhetorical if you have any understanding of his long history of sayings and teachings. In recent weeks, I realized that he will tell you everything you need to hear to make a judgment about whether or not he speaks the truth.
The fact that he makes light of, "often…Here we are again,” clues you in on just how self-aware he might be. In Part 384, he ended with, “The series is over.” Did you believe him? I did not. And here we are.
Part 385 was delivered on July 30, 2022, to a captivated captured audience.
@ 03:20 I began to explore immediately after Tuesday, immediately. Actually, that night and then on into the morning, some things that didn’t sit right with me per Elul 15. Where 45 days would end at Elul 15. Well, since that’s now impossible, it may be interesting to know, first of all, before it was impossible, almost immediately after I’d spoken it, things began to hit me...
Things like reality and common sense, no doubt.
@ 03:58 I was led before the fact and the men around me know, I knew it immediately, literally that night, I was challenging some things that don’t sit right about that.
For those still attending RCG: If Mr. Pack goes home and does not believe his own message, why should you? If he cannot even let 24 hours pass without changing what he taught, why would you think he will ever be true about anything he preaches?
Dave mentions he was “led before” the deadline as if that is something to be proud of. It is the “right about something that was wrong” mental game that he plays with himself.
It has never crossed Dave’s mind that when he has new information, he should just sit on it for ONE MORE DAY before spewing it all over the church. So many wrong dates and goofy theories could have been averted if he had just waited one more day. Learning from your mistakes is for suckers.
He has admitted in the past that by the time he gets to the elevator, he already knows something is wrong. If only he had that feeling “hit” him when he came down from the third floor rather than when going back up, he could have saved himself so much embarrassment.
@ 05:04 Well, now you at least know Elul 15 is impossible.
Welcome to everyone else’s side of the table, Dave.
He dropped Elul 15 like a hot potato and returned to Trumpets being the Day of the Lord. A 45-day count from Trumpets gets you back to Av 15, but before you get all excited, this message is about to get more squishy.
Dave revisited the book of Daniel to discover what the words "until" and "to" meant. Reading comprehension has never been his strength. Of course, it was the translators at fault here. If only Dave had a time machine. He could go back and teach those lousy nincompoops exactly how they should have translated the Old Testament. He could also go back to a week ago and slap that Elul 15 gibberish right out of his own head.
While in Revelation 1, Dave dazzled the audience when he revealed, “I know what a trumpet sounds like.” The campers let out an audible gasp. Surely, they were all now grateful they were rushed through the food line so they could hear that revealing of incredible knowledge in person. Perhaps some lamented for all the unfortunate members not at Headquarters who would have to hear such things while sitting at home. Time and chance happens to us all.
You could not have guessed in a million years where he winds up going in this “landmark” (heh heh) message.
@ 23:21 Why did Israel and the church count 50 to Pentecost, a Holy Day, for 3,500 years?...And we did it possibly in the wrong season toward the wrong Holy Day.
@ 24:35 …but is it possible that we were counting 50…through the wrong weeks toward the wrong Holy Day when we should be counting 50 in the weeks of the fall harvest that God put 'em in the spring for a purpose to hide them?
The answer is no.
@ 24:50 Why did He do that?
God did not do that, Dave. This is all you.
@ 25:03 What did it signal? It had to have a purpose. What purpose?
Out of all Dave's wild speculations, this takes the cake for wild speculations. What he goes on to explain is that the count to Pentecost is a type. God put the 50-day count to Pentecost in the Bible to “hide” that He actually wanted His Church to count 50 days to Trumpets. You know, without telling anyone throughout the entire book.
While it is too late for Brad to slip a copy of Children’s Bible Lessons – Level 1 “The Spring Feasts” into Dave’s briefcase while he was up at the Tammuz Cooking Table, he can still suggest pages 5 through 8 for refresher material before the next message.
Dave may not be good at math, but his Precise Speculation skills are top-notch. He would have proven himself to be very effective on the O.J. Simpson defense team. “If the count doesn’t fit, you must acquit.”
@ 25:24 But is it possible that there are 50 days or 49 days before a different Holy Day? Before Trumpets? We've already found 46 of 'em? Can we find four more? If we could find four more days that somehow are tied to the 46 we already have, then we'd have to count 49 to the 50th day and it would be Trumpets.
Dave spends more time speculating than Topol ever did.
If I were a rich man…Ya ba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dibba dum
@ 34:26 And I’m just gonna tell you if it’s not this year, then…we’re gonna wait ‘til about next July 28th and you can shut down your watch. It’s a waste of time because the Kingdom of God is coming on Trumpets.
@ 38:17 Now I can absolutely, absolutely explain where we find four days and that it’s impossible, I believe to get past next Sunday…Lock it! It won’t be any other way even if it were in another year. Impossible.
Dave must really hate when I do this:
Part 367 – May 14, 2022
@ 1:31:20 I am telling God’s people I believe the Kingdom of Israel and eternal life comes tomorrow night.If I’m wrong…I’m wrong by a whole year because I know the day it happens.
Part 375 – June 12, 2022
@ 29:48 …this is the year and everything lines up…let us look toward next Tuesday…
Part 379 – June 25, 2022
@ 1:13:19 Because if it doesn’t happen this Wednesday…nothing’s gonna change. The Bible won’t change in a year. This picture won’t change in a year.
But that was then and this is now. Let the past go, brethren. Do not let it confuse you, brethren.
@ 37:46 No matter where we go and what we learn for the balance of the message,…you can just bank August 11th. But if we can find four more days, then you can bank August 7th.We don’t even get to next Sunday if something is found in front of that.
Everyone mark your calendars right now. With a pencil, of course. Do not be foolish.
For 4 ½ minutes, Dave explains that this verse is the key to finding the “four missing days” so he can get to a count of 50 preceding Trumpets.
Luke 12:49
I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled?
I must be the wicked antichrist serpent he thinks me to be because I do not see four days in there.
The Bible does not mention four days. Dave does not go to verses where you can even count out four days. He just reads the verse and opens the filth spigot to spray prophetic sewage all over the church.
He disregards the basic rules of Bible study. He disregards his own admonitions to be “exact” with the scriptures. He did something every minister warns lay members about. If you go looking for “something,” in the Bible, you will find “something.” Dave went hunting for “missing days” and pulled a Joseph Smith out of Luke 12.
For those that wonder if I am misrepresenting the explanation, click to hear some of the rationales.
Fire on the Earth
Note the key phrases: “…those sound a lot to me like…” “…like maybe…” “…you begin to find an indicator…” “…like maybe in four days…” “If so…”
@ 1:05:47 When Christ comes quickly with crowns as a…Bridegroom to the virgins, “I’m coming quickly. Let no man take your crown. Hold fast which you have,” is said to all the saints because Christ comes quickly. Well, that’s not 45 days. That’d be four days. Quickly…It’s just easy to see now.
This quote is a perfect example of how desperate David C. Pack has become. He is making things up and showing the church that is exactly what he is doing. “Easy to see” and yet it is not there.
He now has more in common with Simon Magus than he does with Herbert W. Armstrong.
Dave completely made up those four days. He twisted the words in Luke to fit his farcical narrative. Right before their eyes.
Imagined. Not real. Not true. Not provable. Not there. Like a magician with a card trick except he did not pull an ace out from behind their ears as Brad would do, but they actually walked away missing their wallets. That is how David C. Pack does his corner magic.
Those “missing four days” only exist in his mind. The next message this week will only stand to prove how “even more wrong” he actually is. Yet, the man is so blind that he cannot see it.
Is Dave delusional or is he lying? I ask myself that question more often these days. My meter is starting to tip the other way.
Reminder: David C. Pack tells you everything you need to hear to make a judgment call if he is true or not. He does not operate in a vacuum. He has a chorale of enablers supporting him.
The Emperor is naked!
Shame on you, Brad Schleifer.
Shame on you, Ed Winkfield.
Shame on you, Dr. Jaco Viljoen.
Shame on the rest of you “ministers” at Headquarters.
Shame on all of the broken hirelings for sitting idly by and letting this blatant perversion go out to the entire church with your bobbleheads left on automatic.
David C. Pack did not PROVE where the four missing days were. He only SAID where the four missing days were. Long gone from RCG is the phrase, “Don’t believe me, believe your Bible.”
As is his custom, Dave cannot take a firm stand on anything anymore.
@ 1:03:34 I wanna prepare you for what could happen before I speak again. I have an idea when this would happen. If it happens. But I also think it’s possible nothing will happen until we start to count 50 when Christ comes and He throws a nuclear weapon or a lot of them onto the planet.
As a non-prophet/non-psychic, I am going to make a public call on this one:
His additional message this week will not get him one inch closer to proving where those “missing four days” are.
Dave is going to walk back this 50-day count business long before Trumpets. Wait for it. He could flip the coin and it lands the other way where the count will shift to before Atonement or the Feast of Tabernacles or the Last Great Day. If he does that, he will owe me another sixty bucks.
All humor aside…
Amen to the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ coming soon so all this wickedness can come to an end.
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