The Platitudinous Mantle Role of Bob Thiel, Dibar Apartian, and Rod Meredith

 

A comment on Will "Thinking" Land You In Hot Water With Your Church?

Folks, here is a "mantle dream" B. Thiel posts he dreamt in '08 or '09 about who was/is/might be/might have been "the mantle" rather than who was or is the leader at a given time in the once "righteous", "pure", apple-of-God's-eye, "Philadelphian", LCG (before they became the "now Laodicean" LCG)⏳ :

"But before I get to that, let me relate a dream that probably happened in 2008 or 2009." <--(which is while Dibar Apartian was still alive, not passing away till Dec. 8 2010).

"I was about 50 at the time (which essentially makes me an ‘old man’ per Numbers 8:25; cf. John 8:57). At first the dream made little sense".

"In my dream, there seemed to be two parallel lines. The then presiding evangelist of the Living Church of God (LCG) Roderick Meredith was on the top line and I was on the line much below. In the dream, I kept calling up to Dr. Meredith, but he never would respond." <--(if this dream was in '08 or '09 while Mr. Dibar Apartian was alive till Dec. 2010, then wouldn't God likely have considered maybe showing in that dream a 3rd "parallel line" for Dibar Apartian during the RCM/B. Thiel parallel lines rising/lowering/intersecting scenario...thereby helping B. Thiel (& us) clarify what mantle role Mr. Apartian sort of "secretly" held, despite all the LCG doormat loyalists adhering to Rod Meredith's bloated mantle role which was soon to be humanly decided on being disregarded & discarded i.e. formation of CCOG?). 

"This lack of response made no sense to me during the dream. Then after what seemed to be a long time, the lines crossed with his line dropping and my line going up." <--what line or position might "secret" mantle Dibar Apartian have had somewhere in that dream...did the lines cross onto Dibar somewhere, or ONLY ONTO Bob's "super" line 📏📐.

If Bob can humanly decide when or when not to stay loyal to or to discount Rod Meredith's (or even years prior with Tkach Sr.'s) hierarchical "mantle", then why did or does Bob & the doormat folk place such high regard on adhering to all these hierachical top leaders that eventually become disregarded & dismissed from hierarchy anyway? 

Bob got "the mantle" from a place (LCG) which likely was NEVER the mantle itself. Why didn't Gaylyn Bonjour practice COG separately from LCG before participating in a "mantle transfer" from LCG to CCOG? If Mr. Bonjour were to "forsake assembling together" with the increasingly corrupt LCG, wouldn't he have then been actually suitable to participate in a mantle transfer?

"On October 3, 2008 when Dr. Roderick C. Meredith (Presiding Evangelist of the Living Church of God) called me and said to me, “God may consider you to be a prophet.” Dr . Meredith and I discussed this in depth as Dr. Meredith was the one who brought the topic up."<--who cares what a bumbling Rod Meredith thinks he assumes to know about what God may or may not be considering? 

"The conversation with Dr. Meredith weighed on my mind, so I asked Dibar Apartian (who was the Feast site coordinator) and Dr. Jeff Fall (who was my pastor then, and who also attended there that year) to meet with me before services one morning. I told both of them about the conversation with Dr. Meredith.

Upon hearing this, Dibar Apartian got upset. He told me that Dr. Meredith did not say such a thing and I assured him that he had.<--HEY, who cares what Rod Meredith non-mantle said? 

Why did Bob ever follow Rod M. in the 1st place? Why does Bob expect us to count it as credit that he "trusted" & had "faith in" the curmudgeon bully Rod C. Meredith? When Bob still harps on us to follow his mantle role now, why did Bob get to prove all things regarding J. Tkach Sr. & later, R. Meredith? But if we try to prove all things too such as this Dibar Apartian secret mantle stuff (with RCM still at times supposedly commanding hierarchical church governance allegiance/faith loyalty), suddenly we are an accuser of the brethren, but Bob wasn't?

Will "Thinking" Land You In Hot Water With Your Church?

 

"Religion is the unbiblical idea that our performance earns us a higher standing with God than we would have otherwise enjoyed. Religion proposes that humans control their relationship with God on the basis of their attempts to be good and their abstinence from evil behavior."

 WARNING: THINKING MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR RELIGION 

In the world of religion, thinking can land you in hot water. No doubt about it. So why should I encourage you to think about religious stuff? [Remember: Religion is the unbiblical idea that our performance earns us a higher standing with God than we would have otherwise enjoyed. Religion proposes that humans control their relationship with God on the basis of their attempts to be good and their abstinence from evil behavior.]

One thing Armstrongism was good at was encouraging members not to think or question. Daring to question meant you were thinking deeply about a subject and the church could not have that happening. That is another reason why church "government" was shoved down our throats and still is today in the more aberrant COG's like the Restored Church of God, Philadelphia Church of God, and the improperly named "continuing" Church of "god". 

Failing to think within a religious context is what religion counts on to enslave its followers to its edicts, dogmas and traditions, as compared with the gospel of Jesus Christ. “Bad news religion” would lose a lot of its business if most religious folks just started to think. That’s something worth praying about.

Daring to think and question held the minister or church leader accountable and we all know how that worked! DISFELLOWHIPMENT! 

Church: A Place to Suspend Critical Thinking?

Many people go to church for prepackaged and even predigested answers. Nothing wrong with answers, but have you carefully considered the teaching ministry of Jesus? He seemed to raise far more questions than answers, and he often didn’t even directly answer questions he was asked.

Armstrongism has made an industry of maligning and ridiculing Christians and other people of faith for swallowing everything they are told by their faith leaders. That's why the church then and now continues to call Christians "so-called", "deceived", "the blind following the blind" and many more words to ridicule and characterize non-COG people as less-than compared to the enlightened true believers.

Does Jesus want us to think? Of course he does. Does he want us to carefully consider the claims of Christ-less religion? You bet he does—just read Matthew 23 sometime. Many otherwise sound minded and rational people regularly check their brains at the door of their place of worship. At most other times, these same people balance their check books, drive within the speed limit (almost anyway) and are able to engage in normal conversations with others.

 

But when some enter into a place of worship, they willingly suspend critical thinking, and in effect seem to say to religious professionals, “Here I am—spiritual silly putty. Crank up the atmosphere, mesmerize me, place me in an altered state of consciousness, make me feel good—take me to any emotional destination you wish. I’m here to be entertained and escape the real world. I’m not going to think—I’m just going to emotionally react.”

Critical thinking was never encouraged in the COG movement. That is why we had hundreds and hundreds of booklets, letters, articles, magazines, and broadcasts. They were there to spoon-feed members so that they never had to question anything. The answer was a short literature request or an article away. 

In the name of God and Christianity, millions within the world of Christendom sit in cathedrals, sanctuaries and warehouse-like mega-churches and blindly allow religious authorities to tell them what the Bible really means. You see, according to some religious authorities, the Bible doesn’t mean what it appears to. That’s assuming the Bible even makes it into the sermon, for in some religious environments people are assured that their religious leader has transcended that silly old book, and under his or her leadership and teaching they too can leave the Bible behind.

Armstrongism is not the only one who does this. It happens in a lot of Christianity. People like to look to authority figures as having all the answers. It makes them feel safe and secure in a crazy world. Not having the answers or realizing that you do NOT need an answer to everything is a dangerous place to be for some.

Millions not only accept anything their religious authority tells them about the Bible, but then they allow that authority to tell them what to do and when to do it—and what kind of look to have on their face while they’re doing it.

Look at Dave Pack's followers, Gerald Flurry's, and Bob Thiel's; their followers blindly follow everything they say, unquestionably. 

Institutionalized religion is primarily concerned with teaching its followers creeds to memorize, believe and recite. Religion has its prayer and hymn books and its study Bibles so that its followers will toe the party line.

“I’m Better Than You Are!

Just in case I haven’t ruffled enough feathers already (how in the world am I going to encourage you to think if I don’t challenge you?) let’s discuss one of the most illogical of all core religious beliefs. The average religious person assumes (because they have been deceived by religion) that they are better than other average religious persons. Religious folks sit in church and think: “Oh the Methodists or Lutherans down the street. You know, they’re nice people. But they are so messed up. They don’t get it…not like I do.”

"Oh, the Living Church of God people are deceived because they refused to listen to me." Bob Thiel.

Restored Church of God people are better than Philadelphia Church of God people. Living Church of God is better than United Church of God. COGWA is better than the United Church of God. Philadelphia Church of God is better than ALL Churches of God. The silly list can go on and on.

There is, of course, no biblical rationale for such a silly, nonsensical conclusion. In fact, it’s so arrogant and unbiblical that while many churches covertly teach that they are better, have “more truth” or are more “spirit-led” (because, after all, such lofty “truth-claims” are one of the main ways to keep folks coming back) they have long-winded, carefully written statements to say that they don’t actually teach what they have carefully indoctrinated their members to fervently believe.

How do you arrive at the conclusion that you are religiously superior by studying the Bible? You don’t. How do you come to such a conclusion if Jesus is living his life within you? You don’t. You need religious propaganda/brainwashing to seduce you into accepting such a conclusion. You need religious stuff that nullifies Jesus’ selfless life of the Spirit to believe such a preposterous conviction.

If the mind of Jesus (Philippians 2:5) guides our thinking, we can conquer such religiously induced beliefs, so that we won’t look at another person and say, “Oh, I would never do that! Look at where she has a tattoo. I would like to pay attention as I sit here in this brick-and-mortar church, but my eyes are glued on her tattoo. I might get a tattoo, but not there! I might have a discreet earring, but all that metal hanging from my nose, lips or eyebrow? No, I would never do that.”

We will always see ourselves as better than most folks, that’s natural. But along comes religion and gives us a huge boost—now we think we are not only better, we actually believe we are spiritually superior. 

Armstrongism blew this concept out of the park. Armstrongims was better than all of Christianity combined and its members better than anyone in the last 2,000 years. After all, they are going to be kings and priests, gods and goddesses in their mythical kingdom to come. 

Think of a religious fast food emporium—there we are, lined up in the religious drive-through, waiting for our “God-fix,” and when we get up to the window (and remember, I’m talking about the idea that God is so impressed with what we do that we can actually cause him to love us more because of all the religious rituals we perform) religion asks us if we want to supersize our natural pride. Of course we do!

Don’t you want to be convinced that you are better than the average religious Joe? Of course! And there are many churches just waiting to accommodate you. When we are religiously super-sized, we come away thinking we are better than everyone else—we are the only, the chosen, the best, the called—the select.

Look at how well this worked for Bob Thiel. Living Church of God REFUSED to change any of their understandings to fit what Bob imagined was true. They actually laughed and made fun of Bob when he tried this. 

Unique in Christ

All of this spiritual pride is a clever counterfeit, because God actually does supersize us. But when God makes us better he tells us that we can be special to God only because of his grace. He tells us that there is only One who is unique—Jesus (John 1:16). If Jesus lives his risen life within us, we become God’s very own children. How much more super-sized can you get than that?

Damn it! There is that epitaph that COG members cannot stand - grace. In many COG members' eyes, this is a license to sin and do whatever ever want. That nonsense shows just how well the indoctrination of the COG was in maligning this topic. 

God consistently tells us that he sees us as special only because of his grace—only because of the cross of Jesus. We are not better because of the things we do and don’t do, because of the real-estate-located church we attend or the ones we would never attend—we are special to God only because of Jesus.

The message of the resurrection of our Lord is an invitation to sit up and think. He won the victory over death and the grave. He is risen. He triumphs over all powers, principalities, rules and religions. He alone is worthy of our worship. He invites us to come to him, to examine the promises he gives, to live the life he will lead within us.

The Church of God leaves Jesus dead on the cross in the high school gym or Masonic Lodge hall when Passover is done. He stays there till the following year. The resurrection only tends to be acknowledged when it comes to encouraging the divine healing of members.

He does not encourage superstitious, emotional knee-jerk reactions to his resurrection, but thoughtful and careful consideration of the difference he will make in your life. Read what he told the two men on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35).

Let us shed the silliness and legalism of Christ-less religion. Let us come to the Lord of our lives, who lives that we might live. Let us come to the freedom he offers us, freedom from religion, freedom for a life of service to him. He is risen! It’s a fact—think about it. WARNING: THINKING MAY BE HAZARDOUS TO YOUR RELIGION 

The WCG/COG Talmud

 

From the late Gavin Rumney's Ambassador Files

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The WCG Talmud

The following list was compiled by Robert Gerringer, and first published by Ambassador Report in the 70's. It represents some of the customs and traditions of the Worldwide Church of God up until about 1973. How times change!

Do not use medicines or drugs. 

Never wear sideburns below the middle of the ear, or comb your hair over the forehead. 

Never dance without holding your partner and don't wiggle your hips. 

Never listen to hard rock music. 

Do not contribute to charities (Easter Seals, March of Dimes, etc.). 

Women should wear skirts long enough to at least touch the top of the knee.

Women must wear their hair long enough to cover the nape of the neck. 

Never vote in any elections. Never join a political party. 

Avoid doctors and hospitals. Never receive a blood transfusion. Do not donate blood. 

Never serve in the military in any capacity. 

Never celebrate Christmas, Easter, New Year's, Halloween, Valentines Day, St. Patrick's Day, or April Fool's. Celebrate Thanksgiving. 

Do not have more than two drinks a night. Don't be a teetotaler. 

Never wear make-up. 

Men should never wear a toupee or wig. Women can only wear wigs if they are bald. Never color your hair. 

Women should not wear pants (except for sports activities). 

Never ever smoke anything. 

Pray at least 30 minutes a day. Study your Bible at least thirty minutes a day. Fast and meditate regularly. 

Never join or remain a member of a "worldly" club (Elks, Lions, Kiwanis, etc.). 

Watch only movies rated G and occasionally PG. Do not observe Mother's Day in England (Mother's Day is OK in America). 

Do not earn a living as a policeman, judge, fireman, physician, elected official (except Mayor of Big Sandy), astronaut, gambler, concert musician, actor or ballet dancer. 

Never have a picture of "Christ", "God", "angels" or "saints." 

Women should not go braless. Women should not take "the Pill" or have an abortion. 

Do not allow your children to join the boy scouts or girl scouts. Children should not play "pretend" games. 

Women should not wear Tampons. 

Always take notes during church services. 

Never call a minister "Reverend." 

Never bring the "unconverted" to services without the minister's permission, this includes close relatives such as an unconverted mate and children over 16. 

Never co-sign for a loan. 

Do not wear heart shaped lockets. 

Beware of classical music written by demon inspired composers. 

Never serve on a jury. 

Never sign over your body for scientific study. 

Do not read the writings of philosophers such as Plato and Aristotle. 

Do not vote for or initiate a labor strike. 

Going to night clubs is allowed, in moderation. 

Do not have organ music in church. 

Men should not wear pink or flowery shirts. 

Children should not be allowed to read fairy tales or nursery rhymes. 

Single people should date widely. Never date a non-Worldwide Church of God member. Never neck on a date. If engaged, a good-night kiss is permissible, if not prolonged. Never hold hands unless married or engaged. When married, have sex only in the two approved positions; never kiss below the neck (pre-1960's), never kiss below the waist (pre-1975). 

Dentists are OK. Novocaine is OK. Antibiotics are not OK. Immunizations are not OK. 

Only unmarried women should be employed. 

Never date or marry outside your race. The races should be segregated whenever possible. 

Men should not wear beards. 

Do not eat maraschino cherries. 

Never get a tatoo. 

Avoid "Protestant type" hymns. 

Minimize contact with non-believers. 

Use olive oil and wine on sores. 

For weddings, use only the Herbert Armstrong approved ceremony. 

Card playing is OK. Never listen to "soul music". 

Have only a graveside service at funerals. 

Never wear or own a crucifix. Never sign a letter "in Jesus' Name" unless you are a minister. 

Church buildings should not have steeples or stained glass windows. Never build or own an obelisk. 

Never celebrate birthdays. 

Don't go into partnerships in business. 

Never say "God bless you" when someone sneezes (in fact, never say "God bless you"). 

Always buy "quality". Strive to become "cultured". 

Do not break an engagement to be married. 

Always get a minister's advice before making any important decisions (changing a job, marrying, selling your home, etc.). 

Never go along with new styles or trends until at least 50% of the public has adopted them. Never be a leader in setting styles or trends. 

Never support or attend the services of any Catholic or Protestant church. (The Catholic Church is the "great whore" of Revelation. It is Satan's church and Protestant churches are its children.) 

Do not listen to preachers who teach contrary to the WCG doctrines. 

Do not practice vegetarianism. 

Do not have your body cremated. 

Women should not wear two-piece bathing suits and especially not bikinis. Men should not wear tight bathing suits (in England only). 

Do not engage in sky diving (before David Armstrong's interest in same). 

Never chew tobacco. 

Do not speculate in stocks or bonds. 

Never ever use "unnatural" farming methods (chemical fertilizers. pesticides, etc.). 

Never act in, direct, produce or write a drama. 

Never hypnotize anyone or be hypnotized. Do not celebrate the 4th of July (pre-1965). 

Do not adopt children. 

Do not have your ears pierced. 

Make ample use of corporal punishment in rearing children. 

Do not use euphemisms such as gosh, darn or gee. 

Do not create or own "modern" art. 

Sex on Friday night is OK for married people. 

Never go to a psychiatrist.

 

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