David C Pack Says He Is Just Like Herbert Armstrong and Cannot Escape The Attacks Against His Prophetic Failure

Dave is trying to use the epic failure of Herbert Armstrong's January 1972 prophetic failure as proof that his latest failed prophecy was not actually a failure because he is not a prophet.

Mr. Armstrong’s 1972 Tomorrow’s World Personal

All older brethren will remember when Mr. Armstrong wrote a long letter to the Church about an expected date that God’s Work would end, which did not come to pass in the way we thought (January 1972). As an Ambassador College student I was taught and believed that we were part of the last graduating class (June 1971). The year 1972 was thought by virtually everyone to be when the Work would end. I came to college in 1967 under the common belief that I/our class would not have time to get married or have children. Brethren for some time had stopped getting their teeth fixed or replacing bald tires on their cars because January 7, 1972 was “the end.” This thinking led to what would later be many stories that would be told and retold. Mr. Armstrong had also come to generally believe this timeframe.

In the February 1972 edition of Tomorrow’s World magazine, Mr. Armstrong addressed how Christians should view elements of prophetic timing. He wrote an article titled “The 19-Year Time Cycles – What HAPPENED January 7 – What My Commission IS!” He explained what it means when a date passes unfulfilled—in this case the timing of events that were directly connected to Christ’s Return. (Realize that the date of the remnant’s return is not nearly as important as when the Work is over and the Church is taken to safety—which the Church for years believed we could know absolutely.) Brethren who may be disillusioned or discouraged about the timing of the Haggai prophecy should find it helpful and encouraging to read Mr. Armstrong’s words. Due to the article’s length, I can only include excerpts. The serious reader will find and read the whole article.

 Dave then goes on to quote HWA's comments after his 1972 meltdown:

“Thousands know that I, personally, have been called and chosen for a very definite commission in God’s service. But I have definitely not been called to be a prophet—except as that word, Biblically used, does sometimes refer to a minister or speaker—one who proclaims the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

 “Emphatically I am not a prophet, in the sense of one to whom God speaks specially and directly, revealing personally a future event to happen or new truth, or new and special instruction direct from God—separate from, and apart from what is contained in the Bible. And I never have claimed to be.

 “There is no such human prophet living today!”

“The Bible is the written Word of God—and, for our time now, it is complete! Never have I believed or claimed that God reveals to me new truths not contained in the Bible—in addition to, or apart from, the Bible.”

Dave now wants you to know that he is being mocked and ridiculed because of his August prophecy failure, just like HWA was mocked after 1972 never happened.  HWA then had to spin the failure  to the fact that he was NOT a prophet.  Dave is doing the same thing right now.

Mr. Armstrong understood and made clear to all that he was NOT a prophet. This recognition will momentarily become more important. I recognize the same of myself, and have said so several times. Mr. Armstrong never once claimed to be a prophet and neither have I. Yet thousands have accused him of being a false prophet. (Whole websites are dedicated to listing his supposed “failed prophecies.”) Thousands today in the splinters make the same accusation of him. I will hardly escape similar attacks.

David C Pack Is Back With His Earth Shattering Announcement That EVERYONE SHOULD BE TALKING ABOUT!

David C. Pack is back with his regular Sabbath breaking announcement.  His long list of Friday missives are always posted AFTER sundown on Friday evenings.  If he supposedly is the worlds greatest Sabbath keeper, then why is he breaking the Sabbath?

Anyway, on to his latest earth shattering rant.

After Dave's EPIC failure of his great COG reunification he is now scrambling to "spiritualize" the failure away.  One of the ways he does this is to claim that the various COG's are all in epic downward spirals, but that they REFUSE to publicly admit they are.

Dave writes:

NOTICE: This is the TWENTY-EIGHTH in a series of special announcements. They collectively unveil the massive, ongoing expansion that God’s Church, Work and Headquarters are experiencing. There is a reason for this expansion! The reader should contrast these announcements to the increasing bad news and bad events in UCG, LCG, PCG, COGwa and ALL splinters and slivers of the Worldwide Church of God. You must see what they are NOT announcing, and why they never will—and what GOD is bringing upon them.

Dave still seems to think that he has some great announcement to make, but that it is not his job to prove it to you. His god will whip you into shape in that regards:

An enormous and detailed prophecy is now being carried out by God. He is preparing events to soon bring His people back together—all of them. It is not my task to convince you the prophecy is true. God will do that! My job is to systematically lay out the specifics of what will happen and WHY—good and bad, pleasant and unpleasant. YOU WILL NOT WANT TO MISS A SINGLE ANNOUNCEMENT! If you do, CATCH UP. Also, you will miss the full impact if you skip sections of these announcements.

Dave then makes another veiled threat, one that he has already made before but for some reason can't keep his mouth shut.  Oh wait, is it because he lied and his prophecy failed and he now has to dance around the failure?


Dave goes on to claim that lots of people have come over to the RCG, bother before the Feast and afterwards.  No splinter COG is reporting any dramatic defection of members.  Is Dave lying again?

Another PCG Death: Marvin Campbell - "One of PCG's Cruelest Enforcers of 'Government'"

Marvin Campbell

I missed this last week when reporting on the death of PCG tyrant Ron Fraser.  Another Philadelphia Church of God minister also died late in September.  Marvin Campbell. 

Campbell died on September 30, 2013.  Campbell was also legally blind due to complications from diabetes being untreated due to PCG's absurd doctrine against the use of Doctors.

It appears that Campbell was an even bigger tyrant that Fraser was.

ESN has these letters up about Campbell's tyrannical government enforcement:

Marvin Campbell One of PCG's Cruelest Enforcers of "Government":

March 22, 2004
PCG's latest sermon was by Marvin Campbell and was about "love" and "forgiveness" that the brethren should have for each other. Fine and dandy, except that he is one of the cruelest enforcers of the "government." He has tossed members out and told them they have no hope of returning. He (and others) require years of reading and rereading their books before a person can be considered for baptism. They must bring forth "fruits of repentance" before then. That basically means they must be sending in huge amounts of money. He and the ministers under him require large salaries from new members. That is some kind of proof of righteousness. --Just left PCG

Marvin Campblel's hatred of large picnics or church gatherings without a minister present:

THIS ANNOUNCEMENTS PERTAINS TO CHURCH PICNICS AND SOCIALS. ALTHOUGH GOD PLACES A HIGH VALUE ON EVENTS THAT PROVIDE OPPORTUNITY FOR HOSPITALITY AND FELLOWSHIP, DOING SO WITHOUT MINISTERIAL APPROVAL AND COORDINATION NULLIFIES THAT VALUE.
Page 2
YOU ARE REMINDED THAT IT IS OKAY TO PERSONALLY INVITE A FAMILY OR TWO TO YOUR HOME, OR TO GO OUT SOMEWHERE. THAT IS A GOOD WAY TO EXEMPLIFY GOD'S LOVING AND GIVING WAY OF LIFE.
PICNICS AND SOCIALS ARE WONDERFUL TOO, BUT ANY GET-TOGETHER INVOLVING MORE THAN A FAMILY OF TWO, AND ESPECIALLY THE ENTIRE CONGREGATION, AND/OR OTHER CONGREGATIONS, IS CONSIDERED A CHURCH FUNCTION AND HAS TO BE APPROVED AND COORDINATED WITH YOUR MINISTER. YOUR MINISTER DOES HAVE TO BE PRESENT AT CHURCH FUNCTIONS.
YOU ARE ALSO REMINDED THAT NO ANNOUNCEMENT CAN BE MADE WITHOUT DIRECT AND SPECIFIC APPROVAL FROM YOUR MINISTER, WHETHER IT BE FROM HEADQUARTERS OR A LOCAL ANNOUNCEMENT FOR YOUR CONGREGATION. THANK YOU.
 

Due to pre-Halloween constraints, this will be Mr. Diehl's last announcement until after Halloween when Mr. Diehl  will give 3 more overarching and awesome ly expansive whatevers if Mr. Diehl can think them up.  Mr Diehl is pretty busy and will explain things never before understood which will continue to be never understood if we go by past history. 

 

Zombie Ministry

 



Having once been a pastor for WCG and experience in 14 congregations scattered across 5 states over 26 years, I believe I know how the ministry of that organization worked.  I knew many very sincere, quietly serving and believing pastors and elders.  They were no different than pastors in any other denomination.  You probably don't remember their names.  They weren't the Dave Pack's, Ron Weinland and Gerald Flurrys of the ministry.  For whatever reason, bafoons and theologically challenged salesman rose to the bottom  ("the top") while those given to ministry mostly realized they made a mistake in their youth believing that the message of WCG and the Bible were one. .  The drama over the heads of the average minister was unending.  Personally, I suppressed my doubts, fears and observations about just how this WCG thing was all going.  I had moments where I thought it would clarify and common sense would reign but someone always cancelled common sense.  HWA was good at that and Joe Tkach Sr and Jr simply never heard of it.  Others of you may know of other motives they may have had but all I can come up with is that they were fools. 

Dave Pack is particularly a symbol to me of all that I never spoke up about.  That is never going to happen again of course and the MOTIVE is to help others see and wake up.  No one can make a decision on such matters for a member of any group lead by one man with no common sense and perhaps even mental challenges, but I can encourage eyes to open as do others here.  I'm a firm believer in being where one is when they are there until they aren't there any longer.  Waking up is a process.  It does not come for everyone and others would say I am the one asleep so it's all subject to one's personal view of their story.

We are all breathlessly waiting on Dave's last, last message about Haggai and his calling as Joshua the High Priest as spoken of in that minor prophet.  Of course, it is all baloney and Dave just seems to have too much time on his hands to think about himself.  I suspect there is trouble in Wadsworth, but we'll see.  I am sure Dave has come to the point where he simply just wants this problem he caused in his own credibility to go away.  It takes a long time to reweave something to make it look like it was never full of holes.  It will prove to be the single greatest public mistake Dave Pack ever made (yet) in what he considers to be his view of himself in the Wild World of God Churches.

Most of us here have read Dave's questionnaire and litmus test for returning ministers should they wish to hitch their star to the Restored Church of God.  No real man much less minister , in my view, would ever answer to Dave's satisfaction any of these questions.  Dave simply wishes to remodel others in his own image and that is going to take work and leaving one's soul at the door of Dave's office.  Any man who who joins Restored Church as a minister is simply a yes man.

Dave Pack is particularly judgmental, mostly mental, when it comes to what he demands of others and how they "should" or "must" be.  Dave is big on "should-ing"on others and quite a "must-rabator" in my view of him as I read his screeds.

Here is how he views ministers other than himself and the zombies he has already created for his ministry.  From his open letter to the ministry of July 12, 2013.


"Instead, while this announcement will correct you, it will also inspire and surprise you. It includes a series of questions to consider in advance of the Haggai prophecy fulfillment. The goal is to lift you with hope for the future. Another purpose of these announcements has been to awaken in ministers a remembrance of the government of God at work in His Church. If you are reading with an open mind you will understand that what is written is, in part, an appeal designed to get your attention and return you to your true role and calling. You once firmly believed that Jesus Christ had installed you into the office you held within His unified Body. (Yet hundreds of you went on to reduce your God-ordained office to mere “elder.”)   Hopefully many of you still believe as you once did."

Dave shows his contempt for "low office" in the COGs.  He has never gotten over being sent to work for others back in the day when someone at least tried to tell him he was hardly the kind of man that qualified as a "helper of your joy."  He is the SAME today as he was then and I was told by the man who was asked to try and help Dave out that he'd never change.  Dave got "demoted" and it really rankled him.  Now he can reveal this with his "mere" elder view.  Notice he did not emphasise the word "mere" as in it's not really a small thing.  He emphasised "elder" as meaning it really is a low office unworthy of himself.  Dave is projecting his own contempt on to what the ministry out there should not want to tolerate since they used to have "higher" offices.   Lame..   "He that is greatest among you, let him be your servant..."


"Tragically, some will make the wrong decision and lose eternal life. Consider carefully your actions. Your record is being written. Judgment is now on the house of God (I Pet. 4:17). You know human beings. You know they will broadcast what happened in your pastorate. (Future announcements will explain EXACTLY what God says will happen to everyone who does not come—one of three things, none good.)

What kind of of BS is this?  Dave decides what a wrong decision is and the consequences of it all for that person.  Words of a fool.  Dave Pack has not had the best track record of late in explaining anything "EXACTLY" so I'd not worry about the three none good things in store for such losers.  I can think of a few more than three things, none good, in store for Dave Pack as this railroad he is building rolls on.

Here's a few points from his litmus test for RCG ministry Zombies to be that are particularly offensive and ill informed.

(3) Established Doctrine and Tradition

• In what doctrines or traditions do you believe Mr. Armstrong “got it wrong”? (Include all areas—be specific.)

Most of them.  HWA had no formal theological training and hunt and pecked his way through the Bible for answers to questions which then became THE answers to our own at one time.

(4) Did you actively resist false doctrine in your ministry?—or give safe sermons where you disagreed? (Be specific.)

I don't think I ever gave a safe sermon.  That came later when the Tkaches turned sermon giving into ridiculous double talk.  You haven't lived until you had to be told Hank Hanagraaf , the Bible Answer Man, was someone you should look to.  Personally, during those days, I read books on topics the WCG never addressed.  For the past few years you here at BannedHWA have been subjected mercilessly to those results.  Your results may vary...

6) Why should you still be considered for the ministry in God’s Church?

• Why should God’s flock ever again be entrusted to your care?
• Are you prepared to re-win brethren’s trust, including brethren now here whom you will likely also pastor? What about re-winning the trust of Headquarters?

This is pure Dave Pack WCG/Global resentment bubbling up in his demands on ministry.  Re-winning the trust of the Brethren but in particular of Dave Pack sounds like something out of WWII.
"Are you prepared to re-win the trust of the SS and of Berlin?"   Personally I'd not want to be trusted by Dave because it would mean I was dead inside.

(9) Do you now believe again that Christ works solely through one unified organization?

No sorry, can't do that one.  Certainly not RCG

(10) In light of government(s) you followed, how do you see God’s government today?

Totally screwed up and not really an issue.

(15) Are you willing to temporarily or permanently become an associate pastor?

No, you weren't so why should I have to put up with that?  Goose and Gander stuff here.  What?  You think I want to be a mere Elder!!!???

(16) Are you willing to be excluded from the ministry until you requalify?

After your recent flub ups and misreading of Haggai, are you?

(18) If your ordination(s) is(are) invalid, are you interested in being re-trained for Christ’s true
ministry?

I'll show you my "Pastor Credentials" if you show me your "Watcher", "Apostle," "Joshua the High Priest"  ones...    I want to see signatures and seals of approval.

(19) Do you believe ministers should be able to voice opinions to others about:

• Where Headquarters is “wrong”?
• What Mr. Armstrong taught/said/did “wrong”?
• What Mr. Pack teaches/says/does “wrong”?
• Where your boss is “wrong” or harsh, etc.?
• Where you disagree doctrinally?

Oh man yeah!  You do it all the time.  I'm sensing the  resentment of the crushing defeat you felt you experienced in the past here.  In real life Dave, all men are equal and input is a good thing.  Have you ever read "In the multitude of counselors there is safety"?  Do you know why you are in the Haggai fix you are in?  It is because you would abide no real input.  You fired the one minister who warned you about overbuilding and the Joshua thing.  You kept the lackeys and agreers.

(20) Do you consider yourself as having been (rate yourself from 5 being best to 0 being worst):

• Weak                  
• Cowardly
• Slothful
• Covetous
• Confused
• Compromising
• Foolish
• Political (And did you ever “run for office” in a splinter?)
• Heretical
• Deceitful
• Easily deceived
• Betrayed your calling

( You can tell the longer Dave makes this list of questions, the more angry about his being snubbed in the past he becomes. Do you consider yourself as being arrogant, ill informed, mislead, full of yourself, dictatorial, silly, untrained, goofy, confused, foolish, deceitful and in need of some counseling?

(21) Why did you lose the ability to “discern good from evil” (Heb. 5:13-14)?—and for so long?

I didn't or I'd not be writing this....

(22) What do you consider to be your ministerial rank?

Genuine Human Being  (Dave has always loved numbers and ranks)

(23) Are you prepared to dedicate the rest of your life to serving God’s flock and fixing completely
the horrific mess you helped cause in so many lives?

You first Dave...they don't call much of your ministry "the trail of tears" for nothing.

(24) In light of how you once saw Mr. Armstrong, do you still recognize the fruits of a true apostle when you see one?

Probably not and it would be you if I did.

(25) Describe your spiritual condition today. (Also, rate your temperature from 0-10, with 10 the highest.)

Deeply spiritual and non-religious.  98.6

(26) What 5 biggest lessons did you learn from and since the apostasy? (In order of importance.)

1. Organized Religion is an Oxymoron  2.  Rank is an odor  3.  Clowns rise to the top  4.  The Bible has problems with it  5.  You're a hoot

(29) Having now long abandoned many doctrines you said you would never leave, how would you convince Headquarters that this time you “mean it” if you intend to now “hold fast” (Rev. 3:11)?

I would lie and act all emotional, cry, beat my chest, whine, beg  and try to perceive what you needed to see from me to fool you into thinking I wasn't "Joshin'" ya. 

(31) Are you prepared to spend a full year (or more) catching up with all you must unlearn, relearn, and learn new?

Will I get paid?  Otherwise, no.   I have a difficult time sitting still in lame lectures.

(33) How would you prove that you are still Spirit-led?—or were ever Spirit-led?

Raise the dead?  Heal the man with one arm?  Hear the voice of Jesus in my head telling me you are to be obeyed?  Whatever works I guess. Tell you that you are awesome?  "But I tell you brethren, I'm going nowhere" with Dave Pack.

(35) What did you do after reading the article “God’s People Back Together—SOON!”?

Laughed and thought to myself what kind of a fool would come up with this stuff...  I'm not a fan of that "soon" stuff.  What did you do Dave after God's people kinda didn't show up?  Just askin'


Anyway, stay tuned for Dave's final wrap up of the awesome and amazing prophecy/parallel of Haggai in which God, for 3000 years really, was preparing the world for David C Pack...