Rod Meredith Letter to Bob Thiel On His "...self-important, pushy, "know-it-all" attitude."

Today I received a LOT of copies from various people of the letter that was sent to the ministers in LCG about Thiel. Here are some excerpts from the letter that Rod Meredith wrote to Bob Thiel.

Bob, I have personally liked you, wanted to encourage you and have tried to work with you for years. However, I have seen that you have had great difficulty in learning the lessons of deep humility that God wants all of us to learn. With very few exceptions, nearly everyone who knows you has clearly seen that—although you have a quick mind and great energy—you have nearly always thought very highly of yourself and of your own opinions. You have offended or at least “bugged” dozens of Church members with this very self-important, pushy and “know-it-all” attitude and approach. So if I, as a minister of Christ for over 60 years and one old enough to be your father—can help you, I would certainly like to do this. For I love you as a fellow human being and one I have known and shared a number of hours with in talking over matters related to the Bible and our entire purpose here on this earth.

This is kind of rich coming from Rod Meredith considering HWA accused Rod of the exact same thing.  HWA sent Meredith to Hawaii for a year in order to examine himself and to learn some humility.  Since it did not work for Meredith why would we expect Thiel to deal well with this same issue.

However, Bob, your own remarkable vanity and “dreams of greatness” have greatly affected your ability to think clearly many times. Over the last few years, many of us have noted that you have begun to think of yourself in terms that are not realistic. Also, to abet your desires to be a “great one” in the Work, you have carefully and cleverly twisted and enlarged upon many things people have mentioned to you.

If Rod Meredith and the powers that be at Charlotte saw this happening in Thiel then WHY did they continue to encourage it?  Either they are covering something up or Thiel is lying.

All of us in the meeting except Mr. Wakefield have gotten to know you somewhat and have heard many others express concern about your egotistical ideas that you believe you are a prophet or one of the two witnesses.

Oops, I can see why Bob is not happy with this letter.  It's gets right to the point in naming Thiel's issues and that makes Thiel uncomfortable.

Bob, as you well know, I had my stroke in September 2008 and was still very weak and disoriented as a result of it. That you would take anything that I said in that time period and try to use it is not right. I do not ever remember saying anything like that, and I can assure you that I have never thought you might be a prophet! But if I did make some kind of statement in this regard, I was simply trying to encourage you to go on and grow in your understanding of the Bible and willingness to serve. Then you go to January 2009 where you say I told you that if I was raised to the office of apostle, I was “considering ordaining Bob Thiel as a prophet.” That, Bob, is simply not true! For I have never, at any time—considered ordaining you as a prophet. This is not because I don’t “like” you, but rather because I have understood for years your tendency to bring in “odd” or “Catholic prophesies” or put unusual twists on scripture in such a way that no true prophet of God would ever do.

Ouch!

Bob, since you have this powerful feeling of “greatness” you often “read into” what anyone says. This kind of idea of you being a prophet that is pounding away in the back of your mind is once again causing you to twist your own memory of what is said by others.

Then on December 15,2011 you went to Gaylyn Bonjour and asked him to anoint you for an apparent physical ailment, but also asked him to ask (page 3)

God to give you wisdom in the upcoming meetings with the HQ Evangelists. He agreed to do this and, as is his normal approach—he can be emotional and heartfelt about the matter and asked God to grant you a “double-portion of His Holy Spirit.” Others have told me that, being partly of French ancestry, Mr. Bonjour is often emotional and very heartfelt when he anoints anyone. Mr. Bonjour has confirmed he in no way was intending to ask God to make you a prophet! Yet, because of your vivid imagination and fervent desire to exalt yourself to that role, you “took it” that way—as you do so with many other things.

Looks like the story about Gaylyn Bonjour is not exactly how Thiel portrays it. 

Although you think you are not like “Ron Weinland” or others who have done this kind of thing, your present statements and writings indicate that that is exactly what you are becoming. Therefore, as the one Christ Himself has put in the office of Presiding Evangelist and leading minister in the Church of God doing the Work of God at this time, I want to tell you, in love, that you need to realize you are not a prophet, nor are you recognized as such by the Church or by Christ’s true ministry whom He has set in
authority in His Church. You need to humble yourself and recognize that authority for your own good. If you end up “fighting” or “competing” with the Work of the living God, (page 4)

God will deal with you and He will humble you in ways that we do not now fully understand. For “whom God loves He chastens, and scourges every son whom He receives” (Hebrews 12:6).

Bob, you made the statement in your letter, “…his then pastor (Dr. Fall)…” indicating that you may no longer consider yourself a member of the Living Church of God. If that is not the case, and if you are willing to repent, to listen and take correction, and continue to be a part of the Living Church of God, I do ask you, in Jesus’ name to let us know. If you are unwilling to heed the loving correction given in this letter, and insist on cleaving to your view of yourself as a “prophet”, let us know this also and we will understand that you have chosen to trod a different path separate from the Living Church of God. At least you can be open and honest about this. As the physical leader of God’s Church, I have an obligation to protect the brethren from wolves, and I take this responsibility seriously. If you turn aside and try to draw others to follow you down this dangerous path, we will have to do everything we can to protect God’s
people.

I have prayed for you and will pray for you much more in the days to come—asking God to guide you in His love for your eternal good. I do ask you to let us hear from you as I have indicated above. Our prayers will be with you, not against you. May God guide you to do His will, and not your own.

With Christian love, Roderick C. Meredith

Is LCG's Gaylyn Bonjour The Cause of Thiel's New Found Prophet Status?

Prophet and potential witness of the two witnesses, Bob Thiel, talks some more about himself and how Gaylyn Bonjour from LCG HQ is the cause behind is new found "prophet" status.

• On the morning of December 15, 2011, upon arriving at the Charlotte HQ of LCG, Bob Thiel asked to meet with Gary Ehman as he wanted to get anointed for some non-debilitating matters as well as to ask him to pray that he be granted wisdom for his meetings with the HQ evangelists.  But he was not in.  So instead, Bob Thiel asked to meet with Gaylyn Bonjour (with whom he never had any discussions prior about him possibly being some type of prophet).  Bob Thiel asked Gaylyn Bonjour if he would do the anointing and pray that God would grant him wisdom for the meetings.  He agreed.  But while laying hands upon Bob Thiel, Gaylyn Bonjour also happened (it was not planned nor did Bob Thiel say anything to encourage this) to ask God to grant Bob Thiel a “double-portion” of His Holy Spirit and anointed him.  Bob Thiel then attended a meeting with the evangelists and he did not then have time to discuss what this might mean with Gaylyn Bonjour.
• On Sunday 12/18/11 night at a family wedding reception, without discussing the matter, Bob Thiel stared at Gaylyn Bonjour for a few moments, without saying anything and then asked, “Do you have any idea of what you may have accidently done?”  Gaylyn Bonjour said, “Yes, I think so.”
• The following Monday morning was Bob Thiel's first opportunity to speak with Gaylyn Bonjour privately for more details about the anointing.  Bob Thiel asked him if it was his practice to pray that God grant a double-portion of His Spirit to people that he anoints, he said, no he had never done that for an individual before.  Bob Thiel asked him if he had any idea of what he may have been inadvertently led by God to do, and he said yes.  Gaylyn Bonjour also said that the only “double-portion” he recalled from the Bible was when Elisha became the replacement prophet and ecclesiastical leader for Elijah (2 Kings 2:9)—Bob Thiel told him then that this was his recollection as well.  Notice it was Gaylyn Bonjour, and not Bob Thiel, who first stated this as a conclusion.
• In March 2012, it seemed time to mention the 12/15/11 anointing and what Bob Thiel had tried to tell him about his wife to Dr. Meredith and he was able to do so in telephone conversation.  Yet, first Bob Thiel called Gaylyn Bonjour to let him know that someone may end up talking with him about the anointing.  Gaylyn Bonjour was fine with that and also said that he felt that the “double-portion” was related to “the passing of the mantle.”  This gave Bob Thiel a lot of pause to consider since that time.
• On March 23, 2012, Dr. Meredith called Bob Thiel and Bob Thiel mentioned the anointing, some of Gaylyn Bonjour’s comments, and the prediction related to Dr. Meredith's wife.  The biggest concern Dr. Meredith seemed to raise was that the anointing was from someone below evangelist or regional pastor level.  But biblically, as he knows, only a member of the eldership is required to anoint one as a prophet (cf. 1 Timothy 4:14) or apostle (cf. Acts 9:10-17).
• In April 2012, during normal personal Bible study, Bob Thiel was reminded about the time when Jehu dismissed an anointing to become king by one of God’s servants because he thought the man was some kind of a nut (2 Kings 9:11).  There were apparently higher ranking ecclesiastical authorities at that time that God did not as directly use.  Yet, that did not change the fact of the ordination, and Jehu became king (and no, this document is not trying to say that Gaylyn Bonjour is some kind of a nut, only that when he performed the anointing he was a duly ordained minister of the Living Church of God and once hands are laid upon someone, this cannot be undone)—hence Bob Thiel concluded that it would be wrong and quite presumptuous of him to overlook or somehow discount what was done.  He personally had been cautious about whether or not he was possibly some type of an evangelizing prophet and getting an unexpected anointing suggesting that role from someone who had no idea that Bob Thiel was praying about that, or possibly in that role, indicated that this could not be ignored.  This seemed to be God’s timing and answer.  Especially because Bob Thiel had prayed about this so much in November and December 2011.
• On June 29, 2012, Bob Thiel conveyed to Gaylyn Bonjour, Dr. Winnail's written comment in that letter suggestion that the conclusion as to what happened when he was anointed by Gaylyn Bonjour on 12/15/12 was “presumptuous.”   Gaylyn Bonjour found it astounding that Dr. Winnail would have indicated that Bob Thiel may have been presumptuous about this.  Gaylyn Bonjour felt that Bob Thiel was exercising proper caution and that to ignore what happened would seem to be against the will, and possibly plan, of God.  Gaylyn Bonjour also stated to Bob Thiel that it is God, and not men, who “appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets“ (1 Corinthians 12:28).
• On August 26, 2012, shortly after agreeing that a variety of errors that Bob Thiel brought up needed to be corrected, Dr. Winnail told Bob Thiel, “We all think that you might be a prophet.”  In order in order to determine who “We all” was, on September 7, 2012, Bob Thiel asked if this was a reference to all three of the LCG Charlotte-based evangelists and Dr. Winnail concurred.

United Church of God on David Barrett's Book About WCG/COG Implosion

UCG has some interesting comments about David Barrett's new book.  Mike Snyder has made a great observation about the break up of the Worldwide Church of God and how it was horribly mishandled.

Book Review - The Fragmentation of a Sect: Schism in the Worldwide Church of God

Michael Snyder notes that the book is a sweeping and generally balanced secular review of the history and behavioral record of the Worldwide Church of God and its related organizations, particularly the disastrous and ill-conceived WCG breakup. For many, reading the book will likely be a painful experience, as while the book is not an “expose,” it does chronicle shortcomings of WCG and other offshoot leaders.

Book Information

Author
David V. Barrett

Publisher
Oxford University Press, USA

Publication Date
2013-01-02

ISBN
019986151X

Recommendation

Michael Snyder recommends this book.

Hardcover, 302 pages

Centered on a secular analysis of what has to be one of the world's most spectacular failures in change management, sociologist and British journalist David Barrett chronicles in this new work how successors to Herbert W. Armstrong deliberately deployed a non-biblical logic of "the end justifies the means" to essentially reverse the theological course of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG).  As Barrett painfully drills deep, the reader sees that instead of bringing the majority of WCG members to a new understanding of Jesus Christ, the incomprehensible act shattered the lives of multiple thousands, leaving in its turbulent wake freshly minted angry skeptics and agnostics, now hostile to God. Perhaps worst of all, as Barrett eloquently outlines, the wholesale betrayal of trust set in motion predictable human patterns where former leaders and ministers skip from church group to church group, finally claiming the "authoritative mantle" of Herbert Armstrong (HWA) for themselves and setting up a "new" one-man rule over an all-new religious group or splinter (page 209).

How quick we forget that Mike was also part of this break up and was the public face for the changes for quit some time. He, along with David Hulme were active participants in the turbulence that left lives shattered.

Mike continues with:

The book has already been reviewed by a number of prominent religious figures, including James Tabor, a liberal American theologian who once served on the Ambassador College faculty. The fact that Oxford University Press has published the book virtually guarantees that it will receive serious attention as an authoritative work on WCG, UCG and other WCG-related organizations.  However, Barrett recognizes that many American evangelical figures regarded the shattering of the Worldwide Church of God  as a politically positive event, noting: "It is a truism that history is written by the victors, and in the case of books about the changes in Worldwide (Tkach 1997, Feazell 2003, etc.) this is at least partially valid" (page 245). Perhaps the true “ironic dynamic” of this phenomenon appears as the catastrophic failure of post-HWA WCG leaders to achieve the religious goals for the majority of members, all of whom had contributed more than $1 billion in tithe contributions in the post-HWA years, but for most now had little to show for it.

"Most have little to show for it."  How true that comment is! There is nothing left but framed pictures on office walls and trophy cases filled with memento's gathering dust, unseen by all.

Bob Thiel: Don't Believe Everything Rod Meredith Says

It seems that Rod Meredith has sent a letter out to the ministry denouncing Bob Thiel and his recent self appointed prophet status.  Meredith denies making some of the comments that Thiel is attributing to him.

Meredith says he might have made some of these statements while in a "sufficiently incapacitated" state of mind after his stroke.  While I discount Bob's self appointed "prophet" status, I am quite sure that Bob's recollection of Meredith's comments are accurate.  This is not the first time Meredith has run off at the mouth and then denied he said something.  The Leona McNair court case is a sterling example of his big mouth. He has a long history of doing this.

From what I have learned, it seems that Charlotte sent an email related to the "Bob Thiel prophetic chronology" (shown in the 12/28/12 p.m. update on this page) to its ministry. This was sent along with a letter from Dr. Meredith in which he flatly denied making certain statements (that he did make) and having certain views that people including himself and Dr. D. Winnail told me that he had. He also suggested that at times he may have been sufficiently incapacitated that I should not have relied on certain of his statements to me. Instead of getting in a "he said she said" battle about this, this tells me that some in Charlotte strongly hope that people will not believe all of the facts that are in the chronology.

The following, which I received in an email today, offers a certain insight that all people who are interested in the truth should consider:

I took the keys and sermon discs etc back this morning to our assistant pastor (Our Pastor is in Australia at the moment). I was expecting to get questioned but wasn’t at that time. Later he rang me back to inform me that he had rung our pastor who told him to contact Charlotte. He was sent the letter that you were expecting to be sent to pastors and they made a big deal about the fact that you were declaring yourself a prophet and one of the two witnesses. I’m happy to say that God answered my prayers and gave me the words to reply to him (I’m not normally good at that). I said to him that it was LCG elders who suggested you might be a prophet and he responded that we shouldn’t rely on what Dr Meredith said after having his stroke. Of course if we can’t rely on that then we can’t rely on what he said in his sermons at that time either. I also told him that Dr Winnail had suggested that he also was one of the two witnesses and he didn’t have an answer to that.

Bob Thiel: I Am Ready To Be One of the Two Witnesses

I find it fascinating to watch the mental deterioration of Bob Thiel.  I am sure he is a pleasant person to be around and is greatly loved by his family so I have to wonder how they are handling this new found prophet status and end time witnesses malarkey that he is engaged in. 

Bob writes today on his blog:

It needs to be understood that while I will accept the type of prophetic role that God anointed me to have (see also How To Determine If Someone is a True Prophet of God), and it is possible that I may end up being one of the two witnesses (see Who Are The Two Witnesses? ), I have never stated that I was one of the two witnesses. If that is God's plan for me, that will be clear around the start of the Great Tribulation--which is probably at least four years away (see When Will the Great Tribulation Begin?).