AI COG Deep Dive: Church of God, The Eternal’s 50th Anniversary – A Study in Contradictions, Stagnation, and Personality Cults

Church of God, The Eternal’s 50th Anniversary 

– A Study in Contradictions, Stagnation, and Personality Cults

It’s time to take a deep dive into the claims of Church of God, The Eternal (COGTE) and their enthusiastic defense of Raymond Cole’s legacy. For decades, they’ve touted themselves as the “faithful remnant,” holding fast to the doctrines of Herbert Armstrong as if they’re the only ones with the secret truth. But let’s take a closer look, shall we? Spoiler alert: the emperor has no clothes.

No “Work”? Just Sit Tight and Wait for the Two Witnesses

Raymond Cole, in his infinite wisdom, decided that the Great Commission—Matthew 28:19-20—was a suggestion, not a command. Instead of evangelizing and spreading the gospel, Cole proudly claimed that starting a “work” would be contrary to the will of God. Why? Well, because apparently, anyone who tries to spread the gospel without God’s “divine commission” is just being presumptuous. According to Cole, that’s “presumption,” not faithfulness.

And how do we know that his take was correct? Because “presumed works” have been “pathetic.” That’s right, other people who tried to preach the gospel have failed, so clearly, God doesn’t want us to do it either. Forget about being salt and light in the world (Matthew 5:13-16), we’ll just wait for the two witnesses and a mighty angel to handle the gospel proclamation while we sit back and watch the show. After all, we’re so spiritual that we don’t need to do anything—God will take care of it for us.

The Doctrine of Stagnation: Same Old, Same Old

One of the most puzzling things about COGTE is their unwavering commitment to the exact same teachings that Raymond Cole embraced when he started the group in 1975. Cole proudly declared that he was sticking with Herbert Armstrong’s message because “the doctrine” was the true revelation from God. Of course, it’s a bit awkward when you realize that Armstrong’s teachings were largely based on a blend of legalism, British-Israelism, and prophecy speculation that doesn’t exactly scream “gospel of grace.”

But hey, consistency is key, right? If it worked for Armstrong in the 1930s, it must still be just as relevant in the 21st century. Forget about any theological progress or growth; just keep parroting the same message over and over, year after year. After all, the truth is unchanging… right? Except, of course, when it’s convenient to twist scripture to support your agenda.

Raymond Cole: The Self-Appointed Leader and His “Divine” Authority

Let’s be clear: Raymond Cole was self-appointed. Despite the group’s claims of being divinely led, Cole’s leadership was never sanctioned by any higher authority. In fact, he was defrocked by the Worldwide Church of God (WCG) and had his ministerial license revoked, meaning he was not allowed to represent any church in any official capacity. Yet, in typical cult fashion, Cole was able to convince a group of followers that his teachings were the only correct path, regardless of his lack of legitimate authority.

It’s fascinating how a man, who was removed from a position of power, can reassert that very power by claiming to speak with divine authority. But don’t worry, we’re told this is not a personality-driven group. If it looks like a cult and smells like a cult, it’s definitely not a cult, right?

But let’s get to the heart of the issue: Cole’s stance that God’s Church is a spiritual organism but also managed through human-led corporate structures speaks volumes. His authority and his group's continued existence are built on the shaky ground of human leadership, not divine mandate. If you need a legal entity, tax exemptions, and personal authority to fulfill a divine mission, maybe you’re doing something wrong.

Cole, in his writings, made it clear that he wasn’t about starting a “new work” or deviating from Armstrong's teachings. Instead, he championed a “faith once delivered,” focusing on preserving Armstrong's doctrines rather than engaging in the active, outward-facing mission Christ gave His followers. While other Christian groups are out preaching the gospel, COGTE preferred to wait passively, believing that God would bring in people when He deemed it appropriate. This passive approach to evangelism begs the question: if you truly believe you’re the “true” church, why wouldn’t you make an active effort to share the gospel with the lost?

The Shifting Personality Cult: From Cole to Brisby

But it’s not just the doctrines that haven’t changed. The cult of personality surrounding Raymond Cole has simply been passed down to Jon W. Brisby, who became the leader after Cole’s death. While Brisby may have inherited Cole’s position, the group has done little to change its fundamental focus on personality-driven leadership. The group still revolves around the leader rather than Christ, and the claim that COGTE is a “spiritual organism” rings hollow when you see the clear physical structure and leadership hierarchy in place.

Brisby, much like Cole, seems content to hold onto the same old teachings and avoid any real outward action. Instead of addressing the need for evangelism, Brisby maintains the same isolationist mentality that Cole promoted. The focus is still on keeping the “truth” intact rather than on actively engaging with the world or advancing the kingdom of God. The transition from Cole to Brisby has been seamless—not because of any spiritual growth, but because it’s all about preserving the group’s image and authority, not about expanding God’s work.

The Church Is Not a Physical Organization, Unless It’s Convenient

One of Cole’s key teachings was that the Church is a spiritual organism, not a physical organization. And yet, in what can only be described as a divine contradiction, COGTE went ahead and created a legal non-profit corporation. Yes, while preaching the gospel through spiritual means, they had no qualms about registering the group as a physical organization for tax benefits. But don’t worry—this is apparently totally fine, because, as Cole himself put it, “creating a manmade legal entity has no bearing upon how God views things.” Right. That’s like saying, “It doesn’t matter if we take the money; we’re just doing it for the ‘spiritual’ benefit.”

The contradiction is too glaring to ignore. If the church is truly a spiritual organism, why is there a physical structure to manage tax-exempt status? The legal registration has everything to do with power, money, and convenience, not “spiritual” concerns. Let’s face it, they didn’t just register for the tax break—this was about securing the institution’s power and its place in the corporate world.

Conclusion: A Spiritual Legacy Built on Shaky Foundations

Ultimately, Church of God, The Eternal is a prime example of why “doctrine” and “tradition” alone can never replace the call to live out the full gospel. Their refusal to embrace the evangelical mission, their insistence on the superiority of their “spiritual organism” while maintaining a physical legal entity, and their blind devotion to Raymond Cole, correction, Jon W. Brisby as an infallible leader all paint a picture of a group that values consistency over truth.

In the end, what we have here is not a “remnant” of the true Church but a group that has erected a spiritual mausoleum around a long-dead set of teachings. They are so focused on preserving a legacy of doctrine that they’ve forgotten the very call of Christ: to go into the world and preach the gospel to every nation.

But no worries—while they wait for the two witnesses to do the hard work, they can keep reading the same old articles and pretending that their brand of “truth” is any less manmade than the corporate structure they’ve set up. If you’re looking for a church that’s truly committed to Christ’s mission and not just to preserving human-made traditions, it’s probably best to keep looking.

Let’s just say this: If you ever find yourself needing a laugh at the expense of a group’s inability to practice what they preach, look no further than Church of God, The Eternal. Just don’t expect any evangelism—those two witnesses are still on the clock.


50th Anniversary of COGTE

Sideshow Bob Wants Us To Believe He Might Be Elijah. But, He might Not Be. But Really He Is. Maybe. Maybe Not

Here we are again.  God must be rolling his eyes once again at the sheer grandiloquence of our very own self-appointed Elijah. I can see God sighing heavily as he gets out his enormous bingo card to tick off another box with one of many hundreds of Elijahs the Church of God has produced over the decades. Sadly, some church members see this as a sign that this has to be God's true church because you never see Elijah appearing to other Christian churches. 

Our most highly favored gift to humanity is back tooting his itty-bitty horn trying too hard to get our attention so that we recognize his awesomeness. The church apparently needs Elijah to appear and whip the church into shape, and the Great Bwana Bob Mzungu Thiel is just the man! Woo Hoo!

Although people, like the discredited Ron Weinland and David Pack have claimed to be ‘Elijah,’ neither of them are. 

 

Yet, the Bible does show that there will be an ‘Elijah’ who is alive before Jesus returns and that it is likely that he will be one of the two witnesses. And as Jesus is likely to return within the next couple of decades, it is reasonable to consider that he must be alive today. 

 

Could he be one who has restored information on church history, doctrine, prophecy, and the reason that God created anything? Could he be one reaching people around the world with the Gospel of the Kingdom of God in over 1,000 different languages? Or has God not chosen to have him do much at this stage?

The Great Bwana and Elijah To Be then drags out Buffy McNair and Dibar Apartian  to prove to us that Herbert was not the Elijah to come and that one bigger and better was to come:

Was it Herbert W. Armstrong? 

 

No. 

 

Did Herbert W. Armstrong ever think he might be Elijah? 

 

Most definitely. 

 

The late evangelist Raymond McNair admitted:

However, on occasion, Mr. Armstrong may have expressed some doubt in regard to his calling and ministry, concerning himself being the end-time “Elijah,” (McNair, Raymond. Was Mr. Armstrong Who He Said He Was? Ad in Connection’s section of The Journal, June 30, 2004). 

 

Yes, HWA expressed some doubt–not simply may have. Herbert W. Armstrong admitted to Aaron Dean, his long-time personal aide (and Aaron Dean told me this personally on several occasions for over the past two+ decades) that he might not have understood the biblical passages on the Elijah correctly before he died, and that God could raise someone else up to fulfill the Elijah role. Furthermore, HWA specifically expressed doubt to the late evangelist Dibar Apartian (and who also told me). Dibar Apartian did not believe that HWA was the Elijah when we discussed this several times and he agreed with me about this.

The Great Elijah Bwana then pulls one of his gaslighting stunts to make you believe you are wrong to think he is going to be the Elijah.

HWA, himself, wrote:

Jesus shall come, SOON NOW, to RESTORE ALL THINGS! He did NOT restore all things when he first came. John the Baptist did not “restore all things.” But the one who was to “restore all things” just before the “day of the Lord” and preparing the way for Christ’s second coming, was YET to come, in the future, as Jesus said. Now what are the “all things” to be RESTORED? “Restitution” means restore to a former state or condition (Armstrong HW. Brethren & Co-Worker Letter, August 24, 1982). 

 

Note that HWA states ONE (Elijah) comes just before the day of the Lord—an event that still has not occurred, hence some additional restoration beyond what HWA did is needed–and this has been happening in the Continuing Church of God. CCOG has restored more than any COG in the 21st century and under the human leadership of Bob Thiel it continues to do so. In time, God will make the final Elijah clear to all willing to see (this is NOT saying that he MUST be Bob Thiel–but we believe it will be a leader in CCOG).

It's all about me, but not about me, even though it is about me, but shouldn't be.

Deep down, you know he is referring to himself above all others. There is NO ONE in the improperly named "continuing" Church of god that could ever step into such shoes. His narcissism and vanity would never permit such a thing.

There is a 21st century Elijah, and that individual would be expected to be part of the Continuing Church of God.

He continues on: 

Sadly, just as many would not hear Elijah’s nor John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well. 

 

That is not a surprise as most Christians in the end times were to be Laodicean, and Jesus warned the Laodiceans since they would not ‘get with the program,’ that they would be punished (Revelation 3:14-18). 

 

Of course, if you are willing to believe the truth and do what the Bible teaches, that does not have to include you.

Fortunately for the world, and particularly the churches of God,  no one needs to heed any warning or Elijah gobbledygook that Sideshow Bob proclaims. In the grand scheme of things, it is all worthless words. 

The Elijah’s restoring of “all things” means that he is to be restoring information that the true Church of God once understood, but later must have lost or misunderstood. 

 

The problem is that just as many would not hear Elijah’s or John the Baptist’s messages, relatively few will pay much attention to the end time Elijah as well.

No, Bob is not Elijah. No one in the improperly named "continuing" Church of God is Elijah. No one needs to heed any warning that comes from this self-appointed, illegitimate, non-ordained, narcissistic church leader. Everything is always about him and how great he is. It isn't and never will be.

 

 

The Cult Next Door: Interview Seth Forrestier

 

"All Going to Burn", The Cult Next Door, 5 Feb 2025 [1:18:07] "In Ep.50: 'All Going to Burn,' we sit down with Seth Forrestier, a former fourth-generation member of the Worldwide Church of God & its offshoots. Seth shares his experiences growing up in these high-control gr…"(Audio links in comments)
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Nanci's Story: Feast of Tabernacles, the church's strict doctrines, and the lasting effects of religious indoctrination

Discover the captivating story of Nanci, a former member of the Worldwide Church of God (WCG). In this eye-opening interview, Nanci reveals the challenges of growing up in a high-control religious environment, the impact of the church's teachings on her family, and her courageous decision to break free.

Hear firsthand accounts of Nanci's experiences with the Feast of Tabernacles, the church's strict doctrines, and the lasting effects of religious indoctrination. Witness her inspiring journey of self-discovery, healing, and finding a new community of faith.

If you're interested in stories of resilience, religious deconstruction, or the power of finding your own voice, this video is a must-watch!

Dave Pack: Young People In The Church Will NOT Be Part Of The 144,000. WUT?????

 

Imagine being a young person sitting in church services and hearing this kind of bullshit! 

Armstrongism is vile to the core

Crackpot Prophet Tries To Hint Loma Armstrong Dreamed About Him Starting A Second Endtime Work

California has always been known as the land of fruits and nuts, and when it comes to a certain self-appointed Church of God leader, the nuttiness just gets worse by the day. No one could have ever imagined that a resentful lay member would self-appoint himself as the end-time leader of a splinter group. Stung by the fact that not one single Church of God ever made the decision to ordain him, he has had to invent all kinds of atrocious claims to legitimize himself with the Church of God movement. From dubious "theological" diplomas from a diploma mill in India to the dubious double blessing by Gaylyn Bonjour, the outlandish claims continue to pile up like bodily deposits in an outhouse.

This time, the Great Bwana has made the outlandish claim that Loma Armstrong may have dreamed about him starting an end time work.

When believers read about dreams in the Hebrew scriptures, they realize that God has actually used them.

But, some in the various COGs have commented that they do not care to know about dreams in this century.

Do dreams and prophets have any place in the Christian Church today?

Did any dreams precede the start of the old Radio Church of God? What about the Continuing Church of God (which did not officially form as a declared entity until December 28, 2012)?

I had a couple of dreams prior to the start of the Continuing Church of God, and also someone I did not know, who lived in New Zealand, had one prior to that start as well. 

 

Though many discount all dreams, many also forget that Herbert W. Armstrong believed that his wife Loma D. Armstrong had a dream from God, although it took him some years to accept the validity of it:

Within 30 or 60 days after our marriage God spoke to my wife in what might have been an intense unusual dream, or a vision — but it was years later before we came to realize that this really was a message from God. (Armstrong HW. Brethren and Co-worker letter, November 28, 1956)

One night my wife had a dream so vivid and impressive it overwhelmed and shook her tremendously. It was so realistic it seemed more like a vision. For two or three days afterward everything else seemed unreal — as if in a daze — and only this extraordinary dream seemed real.

In her dream she and I were crossing the wide intersection, only a block or two from our apartment, where Broadway diagonally crosses Sheridan Road. Suddenly there appeared an awesome sight in the sky above. It was a dazzling spectacle — the sky filled with a gigantic solid mass of brilliant stars, shaped like a huge banner. The stars began to quiver and separate, finally vanishing. She called my attention to the vanishing stars, when another huge grouping of flashing stars appeared, then quivering, separating, and vanishing like the first.

As she and I, in her dream, looked upward at the vanishing stars, three large white birds suddenly appeared in the sky between us and the vanishing stars. These great white birds flew directly toward us. As they descended nearer, she perceived that they were angels.

“Then,” my wife wrote a day or two after the dream, in a letter to my mother which I have just run across among old family pictures, “it dawned on me that Christ was coming, and I was so happy I was just crying for joy. Then suddenly I thought of Herbert and was rather worried.”

She knew I had evidenced very little religious interest, although we had attended a corner church two or three times.

Then it seemed that, from among these angels in her dream, that, “Christ descended from among them and stood directly in front of us.

At first I was a little doubtful and afraid of how He would receive us, because I remembered we had neglected our Bible study and had our minds too much on things apart from His interests. But as we went up to Him, He put His arms around both of us, and we were so happy! I thought people all over the world had seen Him come. As far as we could see, people were just swarming into the streets at this broad intersection. Some were glad and some were afraid.

“Then it seemed He had changed into an angel. I was terribly disappointed at first, until he told me Christ was really coming in a very short time.”

At that time, we had been going quite regularly to motion – picture theatres. She asked the angel if this were wrong. He replied Christ had important work for us to do, preparing for His coming — there would be no time for “movies .” (Those were the days of the “silent” pictures.) Then the angel and the whole spectacle seemed to vanish, and she awakened, shaken and wondering!

In the morning, she told me of her dream. I was embarrassed. I didn’t want to think about it, yet I was afraid to totally dismiss it. I thought of a logical way to evade it myself, and still solve it. …

Do not hastily ascribe a dream to God. True, the Bible shows that God has spoken to His own chosen servants by this means of communication — primarily in the Old Testament, and before the writing of the Bible was completed. But most dreams mean nothing. And false prophets have misled people by telling false dreams, representing their dreams to be the Word of God (Jeremiah 23, where God says, “I am against prophets who recount lying dreams, leading my people astray with their lies and their empty pretensions, though I never sent them, never commissioned them” — verse 32, Moffatt translation).

Certainly I did not ascribe this dream to God. It made me feel a little uncomfortable at the time, and I was anxious to forget it — which I did for some years. I was twenty – five at the time. God left me to my own ways for five more years. But when I was age thirty, He began to deal with me in no uncertain terms… (The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 1973, pp. 187,193-194).

Loma and Herbert W. Armstrong were married in 1917. They were specifically told that they would have a work to do. Furthermore, the bright lights in the dream may have had to do with doing a work (cf. Matthew 5:16)–a work that seemed to vanish and return (flash). 

 

Thus, there was a dream from God given to a woman in the 20th century that preceded the start of the old Radio Church of God that Herbert W. Armstrong led. The Radio Church of God represented the start of the Philadelphia era and the Philadelphian work–a work that is not finished (cf. Matthew 24:14-15)–and Herbert W. Armstrong claimed that a dream given to his wife was from God, prior to the start of the Philadelphia era.

Who knew the crackpot prophet from Grover Beach/Arroyo Grande was the "work that is not finished". See, I told you it just gets nuttier and nuttier!

Now, consider that since the Philadelphia era was raised up after Loma Armstrong’s dream, a question to ponder is, would God do anything similar to point to the continuation of the end-time COG remnant of the Philadelphians? 

 

Consider that in Loma Armstrong’s dream that there were two sets of flashing stars–there were two parts to the dream. Herbert W. Armstrong is now dead and there was a pause between the work God had him to do and the completion of the final phase of the work to finally fulfill Matthew 24:14 (cf. Isaiah 29:14).

Herbert W. Armstrong mentioned the dream from time to time publicly, here are two nearly identical accounts:

I’m usually pretty skeptical about God speaking to anyone today in visions or dreams. God speaks to us thru His Son, Jesus Christ — the WORD of God — and the Bible is the written Word. I didn’t really believe it then, 38 years ago, but subsequent events have verified that God did speak to my wife at that time, shortly after we were married, revealing thru an angel that He was calling us to the mission of WARNING the world of the fast-approaching END OF THIS WORLD, the Coming of Jesus Christ, and the world-ruling Kingdom of God. At the time I was unconverted, not bothering to attend church, interested only in business and making money. I was embarrassed — a little awed — but immediately tried to put it out of my mind. But at age 30 God took away my business, struck me down, took away my idol of money-making and business prestige. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker letter, November 25, 1955) 

 

I’m usually pretty skeptical about God speaking to anyone today in visions or dreams. God speaks to us thru His Son, Jesus Christ — the WORD of God — and the Bible is the written Word. I didn’t really believe it then, 38 years ago, but subsequent events have verified that God did speak to my wife at that time, shortly after we were married, revealing thru an angel in a vision that He was calling us to the mission of WARNING the world of the fast- approaching END OF THIS WORLD, the coming of Jesus Christ, and the world-ruling Kingdom of God. At that time I was unconverted, not bothering to attend church, interested only in business and making money. I was embarrassed — a little awed — but immediately tried to put it out of my mind. But at age 30 God took away my business, struck me down, took away my idol of money-making and business prestige. (Armstrong HW. Co-worker letter, February 21, 1956) 

 

Notice that the dream was to go until the end of the world and the coming of Jesus–since Herbert W. Armstrong has been dead since January 16, 1986–if the dream was from God then, does it not make sense that the second half of the dream would be fulfilled by another? Like in the 21st century? We in the Continuing Church of God are fulfilling that second part of the stars.

The bullshit just keeps piling up:

Perhaps it should be mentioned, Herbert W. Armstrong had more information about what I am referring to as the first set of stars in the dream. He wrote:

It was a dazzling spectacle … People by the hundreds came running into this broad intersection looking up to see the strange phenomena … A vast multitude of eyes were upon us … I have only come to believe that this dream was a bonafide call from God in the light of subsequent events. (Armstrong HW. The Autobiography of Herbert W. Armstrong, 9th installment. Plain Truth, August 1958, p. 18).

Eyes of a vast multitude suggest that the dream was saying, that the work to be done was to have a witness to many. This happened with the old Radio and Worldwide Church of God under Herbert W. Armstrong’s leadership in the 20th century. The second set of stars in the dream, which he did not mention in the August 1958 Plain Truth, article, but did in his published Autobiography, may pertain to what I have called, for years, The Final Phase of the Work. But even if it had applicability to the ministry of Herbert W. Armstrong only, the dream, which shortly before his death he confirmed he believed was from God (per Aaron Dean, who I discussed this with on October 30, 2015), shows that one did precede the Church of God work he was involved in. 

Consider that Herbert W. Armstrong concluded that his wife Loma’s dream was from God. He also believed the first part of it had to do with the start of the Philadelphia era of the Church of God via the Radio Church of God. He did not discuss the fulfillment of the second part of the dream directly, however he taught another work would be done.

Consider that since Herbert W. Armstrong did not teach that the second part of his wife Loma’s dream was fulfilled and that he also taught a greater work was going to happen after his death. It is greater because it will fulfill Matthew 24:14, etc. That is the work that we in the ContinuingChurch of God are leading (see The Final Phase of the Work and Preparing for the ‘Short Work’ and The Famine of the Word). It appears that the second part of Loma D. Armstrong’s dream was pointing to the Continuing Church of God–the group that best represents the remnant of the Philadelphian portion of the Church of God. As far as radio and new doors in television and other media, check out the CCOG Multimedia page.

Bob Thiel and his little group are NOT a second work and are not here to complete any "work" that Herbert never finished. These are just more self-aggrandizing lies that Bob continues to tell in order to legitimize his apostate ministry.

The Armstrongist god has to be the weakest god that anyone could invent. Why would a supreme God need some self-appointed fool from the middle of California to redeem humankind with some kind of final work? That's a direct spit in the face to the hundreds of millions of Christians down through the ages who have lived and died in faith.

Imagine the Christians currently being slaughtered in Nigeria who, if only they were in the right church, their deaths would not be in vain. After all, they are only so-called Christians.

These very simple words from Romans condemn the lying false prophet masquerading as an agent of truth:

"For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites" Romans 16:18 

The comment made the other day from a reader here perfectly describes Bob Thiel and his insatiable appetite for attention:

Bob isn't a COG minister. He's a COG layman who worships COG ministry, and who deeply resents the fact that no COG minister would ordain him into that ministry, so he has invented Gaylon Bonjour's mythical double-blessing and has filled his brain with delusions and dreams of prophethood. His responses are pathetic, but they aren't saddening, they are infuriating, as he seeks to ruin other people's lives by turning them away from Jesus and toward Bob.

 

 

 

Cult Explosion (1980)

 

Cult Explosion looks at religions groups considered by some to be cults include Hare Krishna, the Manson Family, the People's Temple, Scientology, Christian Science, Unity, Worldwide Church of God, Jehovah Witness, the Latter-Day Saints, the Unification Church, and Transcendental Meditation