Friday, March 7, 2014

Dennis Muses: Where is the Akron Beacon Journal?

"Acts 2:38"

Apostle David C Pack Version
38 Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you if employed and have money to give to the Church, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins as long as you are working and understand you have no rights but to die. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit with my permission


Dear Dennis,

I want to let you know that you have a great blog and your writings are very much appreciated, you have a great sense of humor...
(Note:  I am a guest writer on Banned HWA and not the Blog Owner)

I am ___years old, was in RCG for ____ years, __________, although I had been reading their site and already "warming up" to their teachings since _________. Interestingly enough, my disillusionment came not because of my experience with the Church, but from my own experience with the so-called "God" of the Bible. 
 
I spent 5 years of my life adhering to the strict teachings of Armstrongism in a most sincere and disciplined manner, and my life only met misfortune. Not a good thing came out of it. "God" definitely did not fulfill his end of the "deal", so to speak. It was a painful and soul-destroying experience.

I do not think the history of the Bible is real....

But not to say I am not disgusted by the stuff with RCG, for example, to this day I am not baptized because I could not get a job to help support the "Work".


 Dave Pack has a policy to not let anyone that does not have an income of his own be baptized. It was not intentional on my part, I had extreme difficulty in this area for a variety of reasons and I intended on starting tithing when I fixed my situation, yet I was treated as if I was a slacker. I do not think they read the story of Simon Magus and how he was shunned for trying to buy his way into the Church. Or they just ignore it. Oh well.

Their obsession with controlling people is also notable. I even remember Dave Pack saying in a sermon that we did not have any personal rights, the only right that we had was the right to die. Whatever.


I am so disgusted with my experience I can say am not even a Christian by any definition of the word, not even a traditional one. If Armstrongism does not work, why believe the same doctrines 1-2 billion people believe if the world is in such a shitty state? It obviously is not the true way, if such a way exists.

I came about your blog a couple of days ago because I was curious to find out what other people think of RCG and Dave Pack, since I had not done it even once while I was in RCG, because everybody outside RCG is possessed by Satan so listening to their point of view was bad.


Coming from someone who read his humongous autobiography (part 1 and 2!), I have to say I was a bit shocked about the stories I read about him and his conduct while surfing around in the web. I really had him in a high standard in my mind. I do not assume them all to be absolutely true, but gosh darn it, some of it has to be.

Anyway, I do miss a friend I made in RCG, I love him as if he was my own brother, "in Christ" or not.  It is very disturbing for me to realize he is probably going to throw his life away in this cult, I almost cry sometimes. I had other acquaintaces, most of them very fine people, but he was my only real friend in there.

It breaks my heart to know that sincere and well-meaning lives are going to be swallowed up and destroyed by RCG, and Armstrongism in general. My heart goes out to you also, you sound like me in your writings, except I was fortunately able to get out much sooner. You are doing a tremendous service to not only Armstrongists or ex-Armstrongists, but to humanity in general, with your blog.


Flipping Unbelievable!

22 comments:

Anonymous said...

Is that a picture of David Pack? Man does he look freakin' old!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for sharing. My significant other is there still and I wish he would see what a dangerous man pack is. It is ripping our marriage apart, pack knows it and does not care. He does care about the money that he talked my spouse out of though, plenty in 2013. Have you seen Dave's house? Hardly a humble abode. What does he drive do you know? Is is a fancy car? He spends much on his suits, cuff links, and accessories doesn't he. He has turned his business into quite an enterprise, it is a Herbert Armstrong franchise. Dave is a deceiver as described in his religious book the holy bible. The descriptions of what and who a deceiver is provide him with guidance on how to do it and be one. He knows that Herbert Armstrong has sexual relations with his daughter Dorothy, he knows how sexually deviant garner ted was, Dave knows that Herbert made many false predictions, but he covers that up and only tells the parts that are useful to decieve his followers. The man is not evil, he is simply a fraud. Glad you got out. Hope you will support the mission here to expose him. Please help me and my family now that you have escaped. Thank you sincerely.

Anonymous said...

Collette Jenkins no longer has any credibility. She is nothing more than a paid mouthpiece for a dangerous cult in the midst of Wadsworth. How much has Pack paid her to keep silent? She knows what is going on and yet does nothing. Will people need to die before she does anything?

Anonymous said...

The photo is/was Harold Camping, a deceased dooms day predictor; and the world goes on. Pack will look like that soon, though; and meet the same demise. He will be just another failure who while alive exploited the few people he was able to talk out of their money. Pack is nothing new, but none the less an embarrassment to this country and a parasite.

EX-RCG said...

Dave Pack is so into physical do's and don'ts. It's all about money, people having jobs to support the work.

He also goes off on no make-up for women and clothing choices. I understand the need for modesty, but DP is an extremist.

He is taking away a person's free-moral agency. Especially, when you are forced to believe he is an Apostle, and any other offices he thinks he fills.

DennisCDiehl said...

No, that's Harold Camping of Jesus Came Last Year fame. However, Dave and Harold share the same fate

DennisCDiehl said...

Anon said:

"My significant other is there still and I wish he would see what a dangerous man pack is. It is ripping our marriage apart, pack knows it and does not care. He does care about the money that he talked my spouse out of though, plenty in 2013."

I can't tell you how many non RCG partners have said both these exact things to me. You are not alone

DennisCDiehl said...

Collette Jenkins, Religious Editor of the Akron Beacon Journal has to know what the other side of RCG's coin is. It's not like there is no story or interest there.

Dave loves to copy HWA as we know, even in the details so I suspect eventually he will in the public inquiries he won't like. He's busy building up a base of those who oppose him and who he has hurt badly with his brand of religion and one man showmanship.

(minushorny)old EXPCGhag said...

Is this what that old hag looks like now? SCARY!


Go tell Andrew Hessong and Brian Davis, Dave Pack is posting younger pics of himself. Maybe they'll call HIM up LOLLL (Laughing Out Loud Like Lucifer).

Byker Bob said...

Life is challenging enough, and often stressful enough without having an entire extra layer of authoritarians who tell you a bunch of false things and shame you out of your money, inserting themselves between you and God.

Sometimes when I read these exposures of the ACOGs here on Banned, it gives me new appreciation for my own life, and the freedoms and seemingly little things I'm able to do without hassle or oversight. Getting a new pair of Vans tennies in classic blue for the spring and summer months. Installing a new DLP chip into my TV to get rid of little white dots on the screen. Being able to run a customer's job on equipment I'm rebuilding in my garage while waiting for a new PC board to repair his machine. Little victories, savored without guilt over someone's "Clarion Call", without wondering if Vans are some kind of perversion of the original tennis shoe design, TV being a tool of the devil, or having it in the back of my mind that the customer and his business might be overrun in "3-5 years" by "the Germans".

And, as we were once again reminded this past week, that stuff is relatively tame compared to the really long term devastating stuff these charlatans bring into a person's life. BTW, we know the journalist is not ignorant. We know that the real facts regarding false prophet David Pack have been emailed to her by numerous individuals.

BB

Black Ops Mikey said...

Oh sure, it's all smiles when the money is rolling into the community.

But just let nature take its course and the money dry up and see how long this honeymoon lasts.

[Truth? You can't handle the truth! -- because there aren't even a few Good Men.]

Richard said...

The concept that you only have a "right to die" has been preached by other COG ministers over the years.

One currently in UCG phrased it differently: the only thing we deserve is death. That's because we're all sinners, based on Romans 6:23.

May they go on to state the rest of it - that eternal life is a gift of God.

Anonymous said...

The "lake of fire" is only for lucifer and these false teachers full of PRIDE. Everyone else (all Israel) will be saved through second resurrection.

Dennis, you have a burden to warn the people, and use judgment more than these so called "christian" folks. The Father loves judgment. Blessings!

Anonymous said...


David C. Pack once wrote that "nothing less than a relentless drive and zeal will finish the work." Whenever I think that David Pack is being too hard on his people by making his employees work endless hours and by making his members sacrifice so much, I cannot help thinking of the alternatives to his Restored Church of God.

In the disUnited Church of Godlessness the leaders and employees do not work very hard at all, other than at politics. The godless old members and totally unbelieving non-members who are freely allowed to attend behave very, very badly. All manner of evil behavior is tolerated, and even promoted, under the guise of showing what the UCG ministers now call "love." The idea that obeying God's commandments shows the love of God has been replaced by the idea that welcoming in sinful perverts who have no intention of doing anything but evil is showing “love” to them.

The UCG copied Joseph W. Tkach, Sr.'s succession plan of pretending to listen to the old, wise, soft advice rather than the young, foolish, harsh advice that Rehoboam had listened to. So the WCG turned against the doctrines put into the church by Herbert W. Armstrong, and the UCG is now also turning against them. In fact, many of the very same leaders who helped the Tkaches to destroy the WCG are now leading the UCG. The UCG turned into sort of a retirement home where old ministers could collect an income without working very much and old members could relax and say and do whatever they felt like now that they were old, lazy, foolish and demented.

As someone once said about Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. and his reign in the Worldwide Church of God, "Herbert Armstrong knew that his people liked Rocky Road. These guys stumbled out there and brought home vanilla.”

When I consider the alternatives, maybe David Pack is right to see to it that his ministers and members work hard to get the job done rather than allowing them to become totally godless, degenerate, and useless like the ministers, members, and non-member attendees in some other groups.

Anonymous said...

These men are FRAUDULANT. They are calling the Savior a liar by saying their "church" is the "one"..When He said that we would no longer worship in a Temple or mountain, but in SPIRIT and in TRUTH. The New Covenant is that He himself is putting His laws in our hearts/mind. Not men made traditions! Yes, keeping Torah!

Mark Wolfe said...

Anon 12:28:

I think you are missing the point of the ex-RCG's concerns.

The Word of God promises to financially bless those who give tithes and offerings to His Church.

One of the reasons people are attracted to COG's is because of this promise.

In fact, RCG's literature states that a law of financial success is tithing.

Some, either are in desperate financial situations or have no means of income at all.

Presumably, God is calling them to, either provide them with the means to give, or to test them whether they will give tithes and offerings or not---and will curse or bless them based on their actions.

This individual put his faith in this promise. This individual, presumably, did everything "God's 21st Century Apostle" commanded him to do. And the blessings did not come. This person has become embittered with the promises of God because of it.

And you go on to attack the "ungodly behavior" of individuals in the UCG??

How do even know there is ungodly behavior in the UCG or any other COG?

How do you know there is godly behavior in the RCG?

Is not breaking a promise ungodly?

Anonymous said...

Anon. said: "When I consider the alternatives, maybe David Pack is right to see to it that his ministers and members work hard to get the job done rather than allowing them to become totally godless, degenerate, and useless like the ministers, members, and non-member attendees in some other groups."
Are you kidding? Pack is like the pharisees, they say one thing and do another! It's called hypocrisy! There is partying in DCP assembly along with many other sins, especially the fact he denies the Savior. He mentions Him, but is far from preaching the Savior. He has nothing to give of good news other than how nice it will be in the kingdom for which he will not enter. All his minister's have blood in their hands for not standing up to the Savior and putting him on the stake again. Woe to them all including the members who follow such lies. So they say "let cooler heads prevail"..this is foolishness and abomination!

Anonymous said...

Herb does not deserve praise. He was a con man, a child molester, he raised a degenerate for a son, who was also a deceived. Dave probably wrote that crap about ucg posted above, more deceit. You suck Dave. I don't think you are too mentally I'll (just a but), you are a liar and cheat. Address the HWA pervert allegations!, and blaming satan is not a valid defense, only a Christian cop out so they don't have to take responsibility for their actions. Your whole deal is such a fraud!

Anonymous said...


Mark Wolfe said...

“I think you are missing the point of the ex-RCG's concerns. The Word of God promises to financially bless those who give tithes and offerings to His Church. One of the reasons people are attracted to COG's is because of this promise.”



Someone once said that HWA made a lot of promises in God's name that HWA was not going to be around to deliver on, that HWA would not be able to deliver on even if he were around, and that God would not feel obligated to deliver on even though someone made the promises in God's name.

Someone else once said that the WCG attracted a lot of mentally ill people who were hoping to get something for nothing.


Mark Wolfe said...

”How do even know there is ungodly behavior in the UCG or any other COG? How do you know there is godly behavior in the RCG?”



As for the UCG, as well as some other groups, I saw it all myself. That outfit is disgusting and evil. That is why it continues to split and splinter. It will never amount to anything good.

As for the RCG, I did not say that there is godly behavior in it. More likely a lot of fear-induced behavior. The point is that David Pack is keeping his people working toward his goals, rather than allowing every wicked old fool to come up with his own perverse ideas like in the UCG.

Benjamin Dickmann said...

Yes, having a job was a huge requirement to become a member, but if you didn't have a job but donated a huge chunk of your savings and other financial gifts received, they made an exception. I know because one of the members who were in my congregation did just that. It really came down to money. In the eyes of armstrongists, the amount of money you give is representative of your dedication and faith(to their doctrines).

Mark Wolfe said...

I do think that anything outside the mainstream or consensus of a certain body of thought tends to attract some unstable people.

However, every person I came into contact with in the RCG was solid and productive---very nice enthusiastic people who did exactly what the leader "advised" them to do.

So the point of Anon 6:41 is accurate.

Don't know anything about UCG but if they are a little lax in their policies, in comparison to RCG, then it would stand to reason that they would attract more of the unstable mind.

Anonymous said...

BB wrote-
"BTW, we know the journalist [Collette Jenkins] is not ignorant. We know that the real facts regarding false prophet David Pack have been emailed to her by numerous individuals."

BB,
Since you're "in the know", I'll ask:
You and/or others you know sent her information? If so, how many people sent information and what was the information sent and what type of responses were received, if any?