Wednesday, June 18, 2014

I Cannot Understand WHY the COG's and LCG REFUSE To Acknowledge My Prophet Status! Blind Laodiceans! Oh, and John Carmack Is WRONG!





Recently John Carmack wrote an article on his blog about Herbert Armstrong being declared a false prophet.  Carmack attempts to prove that HWA could be no such thing because he never said he was a prophet.  Carmack says this about HWA:

You know, I think HWA believed with all of his heart that Christ would return in 1975.  After all, the math doesn’t lie, right?  His theory of time cycles certainly looked like a sure thing.  They probably seemed just as sure as how sure it seemed that Christ would return in the apostles’ lifetimes.

And yet, HWA never claimed to be a prophet.  When it was suggested that he was a prophet, he became very uncomfortable.  He rejected it, but, as the story goes, Herman Hoeh pushed the idea HWA was an apostle, and for better or worse that was accepted.  Whatever you may think, though, HWA rejected the title of prophet, and that is the bottom line.

Carmack then goes on to talk about Gerald Flurry and his self proclaimed prophet status:

It does not help, though, that one false “prophet” in his own right wants to proclaim HWA a prophet.  Why?  The answer is simple really: He himself wants to be a prophet, like so many other sad souls that have gone off and started their own following.

You see, the formula is to get people to focus on a man or an organization instead of Christ.  By cheering on reverence for another human, making them out to be more than they were, it become easier to transfer that adoration upon one’s self.

Gerald Flurry made up the lie that HWA was a prophet, so that now HWA is dead he could carry on the “mantle” of being a prophet himself.  By lying and saying he is receiving “new truth”, he justifies people going after him.
 Flurry has been pushing his prophet status for many years now.  He has hoodwinked his members into believing that so he can have supreme control over them.  He he says it then it must be form God.

Carmack then moves on to another COG "leader" who envisions himself  a prophet also.  This prophet has been rejected by almost all in the Church of God and most particularly by Rod Meredith and the Living Church of God.  This has created a bitter little man who cannot stop complaining and whining about it.

Bob Thiel is a little more subtle about his lies, although he recently stooped to Malm-like tactics and twisted some of COGWA’s teachings to seem like COGWA is confused about prophecy (
even failing to attribute a supposed quote, which is one of his common tactics) [edit: never mind, I found it.  Apparently, browser search wasn't working properly for me yesterday evening].  Of course, Thiel is a PhD, and they are usually arrogant enough to not believe they are wrong.  I’ve worked with a couple of them because of the field I’m in, and it is commonly enough to make you wish they would just go hang out in some ivory tower and leave people who want to do real work alone.

He is Philadelphian, for he himself has redefined the word (after all, he is a PhD) to mean what he wants it to mean, and he has glorified the concept of being with the correct, Philadelphian group.  While he was with LCG, that group was LCG.  Of course, now that he has planted the idea in people’s minds, it is easy enough to convince the foolish ones that lack discernment that the title of Philadelphian is now transferred to the group he has founded.

In another entry Carmack makes this comment where he says there is no need for prophets today.

As I was getting at, prophets tend to be sent only after a time of serious continual problems…
Will there be another?  Well, there is the Elijah to come, and only die-hard lunatics believe it was HWA.  Simply put, they are wrong and history has shown it.  HWA is dead.  Christ has not returned.  Period.  End of proof; all you have to do is open your eyes and your common sense.

Does this Elijah to come have to be one of the Two Witnesses?  No, there is no requirement for it.  Some believe he will be, but frankly I think the Two Witnesses are going to be rather busy.  Not only that, but when those in Jerusalem flee, who is going to be in charge of that group?  The Two Witnesses stay in Jerusalem!
Do we need a prophet now, today?  Apparently not, else God would have already sent one.  There isn’t one.  Period. …

That last comment has particularly perturbed Bob Thiel. Thiel has been working over time these past few years in attempting to "prove" he has great prophetic understanding.  He spent countless hours with Rod Meredith attempting to get his great knowledge across.  While Meredith stroked his back for a while he has now publicly rebuked Thiel in all aspects.

Thiel is not happy about that and also fails to understand why NO ONE in the Church of God pays any attention to him.

Thiel writes:

How can people like John Carmack insist there are no prophets now?  Haven’t their been continual problems in the COGs over the past couple of decades or so?

The New Testament clearly lists prophets as an office and discusses them in many places.

John Carmack’s firm denial of the possible existence of any prophets now is evidence that he and others like him would not recognize a true prophet of God.  But his denial is similar to those of other groups such as LCG.

Theil feels that he knows what is wrong in the COG's and that he has the answer.  He points out at least 29 different things he sees wrong in the COG's.

Does the Church of God need any prophets now?
Well, if one looks at the disarray of various groups, personal and doctrinal compromises, the increase of Laodiceanism, and prophetic misunderstandings, the clear answer is yes.

As far as prophetic misunderstandings in various claimed COG groups that I have personally denounced...
  • Many COG groups  do not officially teach and/or do not believe in the idea of Church eras
  • Becasue many no longer preach a "gospelf of the kingdom" to the world, Thiel feels they "...do not have the Philadelphian work.  Only the Philadelphians are promised to be protected from the hour of trial that will com"
  • Many, if not most, COG groups do not realize that the Great Tribulation begins with the King of the North invading the USA. UK, and/or their Anglo-Saxon descended allies
  • Various COG groups (UCG, COGWA, COGaIC, RCG, and CGOM, come to immediate mind, but they are not the only ones) have so many areas of undefined prophecy that they will not know what certain events will mean.  (Of course PhD Propeht Bob is here to correct these wayward miscreants.)
  • Most COG groups fail to understand Habakkuk 2:2-8 and hence are not properly getting the warning out to the USA and UK  
  • Many COG groups have various ‘Elijah heresies.’  Because of this, they will not be able to recognize the final Elijah (Which translates in ME, since Thiel has slyinly been trying to prove he is Elijah)
  • Most groups that came out of groups once led by the late Garner Ted Armstrong (ICG, CGI, CEM, etc.) do not seem to teach that there is a physical place of safety, hence will not be inclined to flee towards one
  • At least on COG group (CG7) basically teaches that most of the events of Revelation have already taken place and no one needs to worry about coming persecution. (for the full list go here.)
Since Thiel is trying to get across to all his readers that HE and HE ALONE has the prophetic understanding, he attempts to drag Rod Meredith back into the fray again.  Thiel's extreme bitterness towards Meredith's rejection of him grows stronger day by day.

It should be noted that leaders once in the old WCG and now in the Living Church of God and/or the United Church of God confirmed to me personally that I was biblically correct on all the above points, despite the fact that their respective churches hold to several of the errors pointed out above
 Only HE has the right emphasis on what needs to be preached:

There are also more prophetic differences that other COG groups have from the Bible than shown in this post.  The reality is that without the right emphasis on the final phase of the work, holding the Bible in sufficiently high regard, and ignoring one anointed like Elisha, the COG groups that ignore prophetic warnings are doing so to their peril.
 Thiel continues on with his tooting of his own horn:

At COGwriter.com there have long been articles on dozens of claimed COG groups explaining how they have deviated from Philadelphia era teachings.  And nearly all of those groups are Laodicean.  And the differences included not only areas of prophecy, but also other items of doctrine, church history, and biblical truth.

Additionally, God has allowed my articles on defining Philadelphia and Laodicea to have been published in places such as the Global Church News, Living Church News, and The Journal:News of the Churches of God. These articles were and remain a witness.
Theil ends his whining list by trying to prove that Rod Meredith said he was a prophet and that his group is the ONLY true Church of God in existence today.  Thiel is still trying to prove that his "double portion" of the Holy Spirit further legitimizes him.
At this moment, the only COG-group that possibly can understand when the Great Tribulation will begin, based upon the Bible and basically the later understandings of Herbert W. Armstrong and what all the COG groups teach, is the Continuing Church of God.  The Continuing Church of God is also the only group led by a person told by the longest surviving evangelist originally ordained by Herbert Armstrong that God may consider him a prophet (this occurred in 2008) and the only person known to have been anointed and prayed to be granted a ‘double-portion of God’s Spirit by a minister who told him that this was reminiscent of the passing of the mantle to the Prophet Elisha by the Prophet Elijah (cf. 2 Kings 2:9-13).

God has also confirmed the validity of the mantle being passed to dreams to at least three people, all of whom later became part of CCOG.  The witness is there for those with eyes to see.
Oh Bob, give it a rest.







16 comments:

Anonymous said...

I wonder if Herbert Armstrong ever became uncomfortable any of the many many times he raped his daughter.

If so, would that change John Carmack's "bottom line" assessment of HWA, and make HWA NOT a daughter-raper in John Carmack's eyes?

Anonymous said...

In reviewing some of the things posted here it appears to me that many of the things attributed to those who have set themselves up as God’s representatives can be traced to the origin of Christianity.

This may not seem important to those who do not believe that the bible is the inspired word of God, but to those of us who believe there is a God that is actively involved in to destiny of human life it may be a helpful observation.

There is strong evidence that the Christian faith is the product of what is referred to as the Old Testament prophetic writings. The writing of the New Testament uses these writings to support the belief that the person referred to as Jesus the Christ (Messiah) has fulfilled, is fulfilling, or will fulfill them either literally or symbolically.

I am not interested in whether a person agrees with this, but I believe those who attempt to apply these prophetic writings to them on a personal level fail to recognize that biblically they only apply to the unique Son of God. This unique Son is declared to be the Jesus discussed in writings of the New Testament.

I could go into a lot of detail regarding how we fit into the scheme of things, but until we recognize that biblical writings reveal many of the mysteries associated with our human existence we will be distracted from the core value of the gift of life. Of course the core value of human life seems to be a matter of perception, rather than an eternal purpose.

A Boocher

Anonymous said...

Mr. Boocher, I hope you are aware that proponents of many other religions also say there is "strong evidence" to prove what they'd like to, too, and that they, like you, make the leap of faith and assumption that their holy book is a reliable and God-inspired source, helping to show their "proofs"

As a central tenant of Christianity, I do wonder how you view that the Holy Spirit has inspired you to leave and come back here a time or two.
I mention that because I just read how Fred Coulter AGAIN is pissed at The Journal, declaring he won't be back, but it isn't his first time getting pissed at The Journal/Dixon and walking away with his cookies for a time, only to come back again to post more adverts than ever before.
I suppose that some people's need to have others agree with them can trump whatever move they believe their alleged Holy Spirit supposedly helped them with.
Is it just a coincidence that such an occurrence seems nothing different than a person simply "changing his mind"?

Connie Schmidt said...

Malm, Flurry, Thiel combined letters in an ANAGRAM search i.e., (same letters but in a different combination...

*HALT- FILM MY RULER

*MR. RUM - ALLEY FILTH

* IF LULL- TRY HAMMER

* RIM MY FULL HALTER

Black Ops Mikey said...

Armstrongism is all the cult you'll ever need....

Corky said...

Yeah...about that passing of the mantle from Elijah to Elisha...were there any witnesses? No? Well, how does anyone know that Elisha didn't just knock Elijah in the head with a rock, throw his body in a ravine and make up a story about a whirlwind?

The prophet says..."thus saith the Lord" but you only have his word for that and knowing how preachers and prophets always lie and make up stories, how can you depend on a single thing they have ever said, then or now?

Corky said...

There is strong evidence that the Christian faith is the product of what is referred to as the Old Testament prophetic writings. The writing of the New Testament uses these writings to support the belief that the person referred to as Jesus the Christ (Messiah) has fulfilled, is fulfilling, or will fulfill them either literally or symbolically.

Yes, and the reason it appears that way is because the gospel writers made up everything Jesus supposedly said or did from passages found in the Greek Old Testament. All of which were taken out of context, by the way, and some passages were from mistranslations of the Hebrew text when it was translated into the Greek Septuagint.

That's right, the "God inspired" writers of the NT didn't even know they were writing mistranslated passages.

As to "the origin of Christianity", it probably could be traced to disillusioned Greek converts to Judaism separating themselves from the Jews because of the first Jewish war and temple destruction and starting their own cult.

Nearly everybody assumes Christianity originated with the Jews but historically there were never many Jewish Christians except those who 'converted' under the pain of death threat. It wasn't just an idle threat either.

Historically, there are not even any Christians until very late in the first century. Nobody knew anything about them and even what Christians believed had to be tortured out of them by the Roman authorities. So, it had to have been a secret underground movement - which was against Roman law at the time and carried the death penalty.

Anonymous said...

Is Dr. Thiel's spirit double portion 200% more than anyone else? Or did he start off with .001% and now has .002% double portion?

Anonymous said...

Is Dr. Thiel's spirit double portion 200% more than anyone else? Or did he start off with .001% and now has .002% double portion?

Anonymous said...

Why does John Carmack heckle everyone else, but give HWA a free pass? Seems a bit inconsistent to me. The whole piece seems to me merely a survey of the biases of John Carmack. And I find the "false carpenter" analogy to be very disingenuous.

Whether or not HWA called himself a prophet is not what's at issue. Did HWA claim to receive direct revelation from a supernatural being or not? Yes, he very clearly did claim this, many times; it's a matter of public record. Were these claims substantiated or falsified? They were clearly falsified. End of story. The most charitable thing that can be said for HWA was that he was a very sick man, and what must have been his untreated schizophrenia doesn't even begin to cover it.

The same goes for everyone else who has tried to claim HWA's "mantle." Why anyone would want a "mantle" that's been falsified, I have no idea. If I were them, I'd be trying to distance myself from HWA like Gore distancing himself from Clinton. Those who evaluate HWA's "mantle" as having a value in the postive range also seem to have some mental health issues. Again, that's the charitable interpretation.

Finally, in regard to Albert Boocher's "strong evidence," all we can say for the Old or New Testaments is that as evidence goes, the bible is hearsay, which isn't the sort that's even admissable in court. As such it isn't worth a damn as far as "evidence" goes. So if the bible is "strong evidence" for a Christian God, then I have a comic book that's "strong evidence" for Spiderman, and the presents under the Christmas Tree are "strong evidence" for Santa Clause.

Byker Bob said...

Thiel, Carpenter, et al, provide a fascinating study of an insidious pathology or cluster of pathologies. The constant barrage of insanity from the Armstrongite corner, witnessed on a daily basis, makes one wonder how the pathology could ever be treated or mitigated so that the people infected could, once again, lead a normal and fulfilling life. This sickness goes way beyond the considerable capabilities and skill set of a deprogrammer because it's not just a matter of adherence to bizarre, non-mainstream doctrinal approaches and philosophies. It goes way, way over and beyond, into a totally irrational view of self, accompanied by delusions of biblical grandeur.

What could possibly make someone aspire to be a prophet in a system which is based on plagiarization, outright fabrication, and conspiracy theories, and has consistently produced a 100% failure rate, to say nothing of a phenomenally toxic human misery quotient? Do each of these guys somehow believe that they are the heretofore missing ingredient, the factor which will finally make everything right? The key, or breakthrough correction to Armstrongism?

Some of us, over the years, have recognized the fact that we were damaged by the teachings of and environment created by Herbert W. Armstrong. And, we quit rationalizing and protecting the behavior that caused it, have gotten help, and have largely recovered. But, these ridiculous figures who envision themselves as the new apostles and prophets of Armstrongism have suffered far more extreme damage than most of us did at our bottoms, in our worst fears and nightmares. They would appear to be FUBAR, at least for this lifetime. It just makes you want to vomit that one man could cause this all!

BB

old EXPCG hag said...

Eric King's message to Carmack, Thiel, Flurry, etc...

"AND I DON'T
BLAB ANY GAB--
I CHATTER
HEP
PATTER!"

old EXPCG hag said...

...did I leave out DRAB?

Anonymous said...

A reply to Anonymous June 18, 2014 at 12:34 PM
I make no claims that the Holy Spirit inspired me in any of the decisions I have made. My decisions to comment or not comment are based on a current interest in what has been posted.
Actually I originally intended to make that comment on a different post, but decided it would fit this post also.
Yes I am well aware of the fact that other religions have holy books, but my point was that the Christian faith was built on a person referred to as Jesus the Christ not some modern day human being.

Comment on what Corky said:
Corky I wasn’t saying that everything is or was true. Since I didn’t live back then and have yet to talk to those who did. I have no idea as to what they experienced or why they bothered to write it down. Trying to understand another person’s reasoning or motives is not a human strong point. Again my point was that those who have set themselves up as understanding God and the purpose of life fail to recognize the complexity of the human mind. By the way all historians are prone to see things though the eyes of the past or their own life experiences.
The point was that trying to use prophetic writings to claim the bible is or was referring to a modern day human is going beyond what the original author envisioned.
A. Boocher

BB said “It just makes you want to vomit that one man could cause this all!”
BB, My personal experience tells me that one man did not cause all that is being presented here or anywhere else. What we see is a variety of human flaws and the failure in human life character development. This is not a new problem. It is a problem that has been a part of every generation.
This is what mankind has been coping with since the beginning of human life and is the primary cause for humanity embracing the idea that something with a greater mind must exist.
A. Boocher

I find that every mind has a personal view of things, but it is difficult to know how what I write will be received. AB

Anonymous said...

Bob Thiel, who apparently builds many of his thoughts on "sand," wrote the following:

"...The Continuing Church of God is also the only group led by a person told by the longest surviving evangelist originally ordained by Herbert Armstrong that God may consider him a prophet (this occurred in 2008) and the only person known to have been anointed and prayed to be granted a ‘double-portion of God’s Spirit by a minister who told him that this was reminiscent of the passing of the mantle to the Prophet Elisha by the Prophet Elijah (cf. 2 Kings 2:9-13).

God has also confirmed the validity of the mantle being passed to dreams to at least three people, all of whom later became part of CCOG. The witness is there for those with eyes to see. Oh Bob, give it a rest..."

Huh? "...the longest surviving evangelist originally ordained by Herbert Armstrong..."?

You must be referring to Rod Meredith, but was he really an evangelist? And where is the proof that God agrees with you? After all, God did inspire the following to be written:

Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;"

Well, Bob Thiel, that is what someone translated to be in the Bible, but if you check it out you would learn that the word "some" is not in the original writing, but the word "the" is. In other words that verse is actually saying:

Ephesians 4:11 "And he gave THE, apostles; and THE, prophets; and THE, evangelists; and THE, pastors and teachers;"

If God gave us THE evangelists, then who is Rod Meredith? If God gave us THE prophets, then who are You.

Now, Philip was one of THE evangelists ("And the next day we that were of Paul’s company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him." Acts 21:8)!

And Timothy did the work of an evangelist (2 Timothy 4:5 "But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry."), but who are you?

And guess what Bob Thiel...and Rod Meredith????????????????

I'm still learning things from The prophets....and THE evangelists. God did confirm them, but you and Rod? I wouldn't count on it.

I suggest you stick with your chiropractic work and study/learn from THE prophets and THE evangelists that God told us He provided for our edification, learning, etc.

John

Anonymous said...

I'm glad that Mr. Boocher believes that Herbert Armstrong's teachings belong in the gutter and are worthless.

Not many older x-wcg people will admit that!