Wednesday, October 19, 2011

False Prophets: Harold Camping and Rod Meredith



Prophet Thiel has a tirade today against Harold Camping who has once again predicted the end of the world this coming Friday, October 21st.  Thiel at least recognizes that Camping is incorrect and a liar.


According to Harold Camping and other supporters of his Family Radio, Jesus will return on and the world will end on October 21, 2011.  Here is what he wrote in his We are Almost There! book:
Significantly, the number 17 links perfectly to the fact of the rapture because spiritually, the number 17 signifies heaven. Moreover, the number 2 (second month) spiritually identifies with those who have been commissioned to bring the Gospel. Is it not amazing that they will be raptured on the 17th day of the second month? Is that coincidental? We also have learned that the last day of the earth’s existence, October 21, 2011, is the 23rd day of the seventh month of the Biblical calendar. The number 23 normally signifies God’s wrath being poured out. The number 7 (seventh month) signifies the perfect fulfillment of God’s purposes. Could this also be coincidental, that the final completion of God’s punishment on the unsaved occurs in the seventh month on a day that features the number 23, which is a number that completely identifies with God’s wrath, thus signifying God’s perfect wrath on the unsaved?  (p. 61-62).
So, based on his proclamations, the world has only a couple of days to exist. Of course, that is not possible, so in a couple of days, his remaining followers will again see that his prediction was wrong (like they did about his predictions for 1994, and the one for May, 21, 2011)

It is interesting that Thiel can see that Camping is a false prophet but cannot see that Meredith is also a false prophet.  Meredith has had just as many false prophecies over the years and MORE!

But Thiel dances by the false prophecies this way.  He claims Camping is making private interpretations of of prophecy, while LCG's and Meredith's version is "literal."  Camping takes his interpretations as literal also.  I do not understand why Meredith's private interpretation are any different than Camping's private interpretations.
We in the Living Church of God believe:
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (2 Peter 1:19-20, KJV)
Now, Peter is warning that unlike improper human reasoning, prophetic scriptures were not private interpretations. October, 21, 2011 and many of the numbers that have been associated with it are not biblical prophecies, but improper private interpretations of scripture.

While we in believe that we have “a more sure word of prophecy”, it is because we believe that many prophetic scriptures are literal and should often be understood that way. Sadly, those into their own private interpretations, and misunderstand the Bible and the Holy Days, have another view.

Thiel then goes on to say this:

Because he prefers his own imaginations to the truth of the Bible, Harold Camping seems to load one misleading calculation onto other misleading information to get to the wrong answer. He should not be listened to by those that actually believe the Bible. The heavenly signs in Matthew 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21 have not happened, and they must happen first according to Jesus before He can return.

If this is true then Thiel must stop listening and following Rod Meredith, because Meredith over the decades has used his own imagination to interpret scripture in accordance with his belief on the way things should be.  So far has has struck out every single time he opens his mouth.  Once a liar, always a liar.

Yet, Thiel can call Camping a false prophet and not Meredith:

It remains my view that when Jesus does not come on May 21, 2011, hopefully the warnings to his followers will finally sink in. And some may remember that Jesus said,
11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. (Matthew 24:11)
Meredith is a proven and documented false prophet, along with Herbert Armstrong, Gerald Waterhouse, Dean Blackwell and Herman Hoeh.  They have all lied through their teeth for decades.

But there is a grand scheme going on by Satan here.  With Camping and others continually being proven to be false prophets this will have an impact upon the Living Church of God whenever they decide to make an end time prophecy in the future.  Because of all the failed prophets in the past, when people hear LCG/Meredith utter prophecies the world will laugh at LCG and Meredith.  They will be mocked and scoffed at.


Despite false predictions, Jesus will return. And we are to look forward to His return as the Apostle Peter wrote. Jesus will return no earlier than 2018 (and likely later) as certain biblically-required steps have not yet happened (Daniel 9:27; cf. Matthew 24:15,21,29-30).

When God’s true servants proclaim the truth about prophetic events, people are likely to point to false predictions (supposedly, but not really, from the Bible) and scoff, though God still wants people to repent (2 Peter 3:3-9). This scoffing is one of the dangers of the October 21, 2011 date that will soon be proven false.



If Thiel and LCG don't want to be mocked and scoffed at then stop telling prophetic lies as if they were the truth!  Shut down your cult headquarters and stop lying!


17 comments:

Douglas Becker said...

NO2HWA:

Thank you.

Thank you!

Thank you!!

Byker Bob said...

I wonder when Theil came into WCG.
He may be totally unaware of such things as HWA's 19 year time cycles, and the three math equations we had been taught "proving" that Jesus would return in 1975.

Equation #1 involved subtracting the time elapsed during the BC era(based on adding the lifespans of the folks listed in the Old Testament geneologies) from 6,000 (supposedly the time allotted for man's rule), and correcting for no year zero. This left 1975 years, meaning that 1975 was the year during which Jesus would return. Of course, they had their date of creation wrong, it was off by approximately 200 years according to Jewish Rabbinic tradition.

The second equation was more complicated, and I don't completely recall it, but do remember that it involved the time of the Gentiles.

The third equation was based on the prophecy of the sprouting of the tender olive branch (symbolizing the rebirth of Israel as a nation) and the fact that a generation would not pass until all of these things be fulfilled. As we all know, Israel was reborn in 1948. HWA took an average here, and figured that a generation lasted for 20-30 years. Again, somehow they arrived at 1975.

I vividly recall these specifically being taught in AC Second Year Bible Class, and believe I also recall them being repeated during Sabbath Services and or Bible Study in the AC Gym during the '60s. And, then, long about late 1971, the official story became that they had never set dates. They out and out lied!

Ramrod was there when this happened, and knows how damaging it is to a ministry to get specific with dates, and all the repair work needed to make a church survive such a fiasco, so Theil is just going to have to remain disappointed. He's going to find that his faith is badly misplaced, and the good news is that we all get to watch. Come to think of it, maybe we should be praying for him.

BB

Anonymous said...

I suppose next up for Thiel is the revelation that we've been steeped in pagan numbers are whole lives.

Anonymous said...

In a perfect world, Harold would go camping permanently in some remote land, and Jesus would whack the LCG leader with a rod, merrily, til it resulted in dith.

DennisCDiehl said...

"The Eye that sees, cannot see itself."

DennisCDiehl said...

Prediction is built into our human selves and ego. People are predicting is what many finanacial experts and economy minded specialists are doing concerning when, where and if or how badly the world economy will crash. We do this to protect ourselves emotionally, and physically. It is the surival of the ego and ego driven.

The over all outcome of prediction comes about but in many ways never quite in the way thousands of people 'pre-dict' It doesn't matter. A led to B and B led to C and D still occurred in a way, or not.

Prophecy claims to be much more specific. An Example of this is Daniel 11 etc. However, the reason Daniel 11 is so accurate and Daniel 12 goes back to generic and vague is that the events of the world in Daniel 11 had ALREADY OCCURRED and so were history disquised as prophecy. That''s why it seems so accurate. It was written long after the three kingdoms save Rome had come and gone.

The OT is full of failed prophecies as I have mentioned in the past.

No one can know the future by prophecy. No one is that specifically successful and it is an illusion of the ego to think so.

And if a god is orchestrating such "prophecy', he/she is not doing very well with it either.

Besides that, if it's all planned and set in stone and we only have to be the bit players in the play, what kind of life is that?

The problem with Prophecy in the WCG and with Fundies is that they sacrifice their real life for the one they think is just around the corner. They live just ahead and not in the moment and as the moments missed accumulate in their lives, their real life goes unlived in the present.

Get out of the future. no one has gotten it right yet EVER, and the chance that you will via some COG prophecy meister reading a book of failed and contrived prophecies is very very small.

DennisCDiehl said...

Prediction is built into our human selves and ego. People predicting is what many finanacial experts and economy minded specialists are doing concerning when, where and if or how badly the world economy will crash. We do this to protect ourselves emotionally, and physically.

It is the surival of the ego and ego driven and is based on facts and trends along with some intrigue and agendas.

The over all outcome of prediction comes about but in many ways never quite in the way thousands of people 'pre-dict' It doesn't matter. A led to B and B led to C and D still occurred in a way, or not.

Prophecy claims to be much more specific and of course, sent by the Deity so we can "know' what to look for in the "world ahead.'

An Example of this is Daniel 11 etc. However, the reason Daniel 11 is so accurate and Daniel 12 goes back to generic and vague is that the events of the world in Daniel 11 had ALREADY OCCURRED and so were history disquised as prophecy. That''s why it seems so accurate. It was written long after the three kingdoms save Rome had come and gone.

The OT is full of failed prophecies as I have mentioned in the past.

No one can know the future by prophecy. No one is that specifically successful and it is an illusion of the ego to think so.

And if a god is orchestrating such "prophecy', he/she is not doing very well with it either.

Besides that, if it's all planned and set in stone and we only have to be the bit players in the play, what kind of life is that?

The problem with Prophecy in the WCG and with Fundies is that they sacrifice their real life for the one they think is just around the corner. They live just ahead and not in the moment and as the moments missed accumulate in their lives, their real life goes unlived in the present.

Get out of the future. no one has gotten it right yet EVER, and the chance that you will via some COG prophecy meister reading a book of failed and contrived prophecies is very very small.

DennisCDiehl said...

If the prophecy loons aren't careful they will get everything they predict except the Second Coming and a huge santitation proplem.

DennisCDiehl said...

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. (2 Peter 1:19-20, KJV)"

Have you ever wondered where you might find a prophecy that WASN'T a private interpretation?

What is a public interpretation and who or what is making it different from a private one?

All prophecy, falsely so called, is a PRIVATE interpretation IMHO.

And, "well, I get my prophetic know how right out of the Bible," as if this is the answer to the question and one should say, "oh doi...what was I thinking. Of course you do. That answers it!"

Isaiah, Jeremiah and Ezekiel plus all the minor prophets gave prophecy from their private views. If you think "but God told me," or, "and the voice of the Lord said unto me..." is the source, you are kidding yourself.

Homer said...

May I make this prediction / prophecy? Jesus - the sun of god - will return tomorrow, just as it/he has done every day throughout the history of man.

Also, Jesus - the sun of god - the light of the world - will overcome evil (darkness) next spring, after having been dead for 3 days in December, just as it/he has done every year throughout the history of man.

I have faith that this will happen because I have experienced it every day and every year of my life. I just didn't understand it until the last couple of years.

Reality said...

Even IF someone could predict the future perfectly, how would be of benefit?

Steve said...

Reality said...
"Even IF someone could predict the future perfectly, how would be of benefit?"

MY COMMENT: He, or she, would be famous and make lots and lots of money! Look at how much money and fame all the false profits have. How much more if you were a "true" profit?

Reality said...

That is it, Steve! And I should have known it.

The money must be, not only the main reason for the predictions, but the only one - for they truly do not care about the people they frighten with all these gory tales.

Byker Bob said...

The money was it. You don't get a genuine conversion experience by using an eclectic prophetic theory to scare huge numbers of people into your church and subscribing to your legalism. All you get is people trying to save their own asses, using their own will power to conform to an accepted behavioral pattern, and/or getting caught up in some sort of missionary fervor to spread the word to everyone else in the world.

BB

Reality said...

True Byker.

So if the COG-seer using his particular numbers game should make accurate predictions, that might benefit himself and his group with added numbers, but the hearers would not receive any benefit whatsoever.

Whatever is going to happen will happen, and the fact that someone knows it in advance won't change the event anyway.

Somehow people think there is some kind of safety in being in the group that knows the future - but it doesn't change the future so I cannot see why so much importance is placed on prophecy.

Reality said...

I suppose that if one should find a group which could predict the future, they would modify their behaviour and follow all the demands of that group so that they could be amoung those saved.

In essence that is just what you said - the followers would hope to save their own a-- and no price would be too high. Even 30% + of ones income.

Reality said...

Oh, what a bargain for everyone concerned :)