Living Church of God has been facing a lot of criticism lately among its rank and file members about how LCG worked behind the scenes with Peter Nathan, Steve Elliot and others after they deliberately went against "God's Government" to start their own splinter group of a splinter. Then to compound the problem, they immediately began conspiring to jump ship from their newly formed group into Living Church of God.
Because Nathan conned the churches he was over in Kenya and elsewhere to jump ship with him, these people are now being added to LCG's membership and tithing rolls. That's what it all is really about.
With no time allowed to vet these men as to where they truly stand, they were given positions of leadership in the LCG without blinking an eye.
Peter Nathan is now going to be teaching at Living Church of God's "University." Would you as a parent want your child to be taught by a man who has proven to have no loyalty to any of the groups he was with in the past? His theology has been totally different than LCG's in some areas. If the Church is all about "proper government" then these men have failed miserably! Why does it take someone from OUTSIDE the organization to see that?
Steve Elliot has now been placed over the Southern California LCG churches. It is no wonder many in Southern CA are NOT happy about this situation. LCG HQ doesn't obviously doesn't care.
Moves and Changes for 2014: We plan to make the following changes in assignments for the U.S. Field Ministry during the summer of 2014.Ken Frank – move from Richmond/Norfolk, Virginia to Charlotte to join LU facultyJason Fritts – move from Michigan to Richmond/Norfolk/Winchester as pastorBill Long – becomes Associate Pastor in Michigan and northern IndianaPeter Nathan – joins the LU faculty in CharlotteDan Hall – moves from Dallas, Texas to Atlanta as Regional Pastor for southeastern USAGary Stein – becomes Pastor of Dallas, TexasRodger Bardo – becomes Regional Pastor for Arizona, New Mexico and TexasPhil Sena – move from Austin to pastor congregations in western New York stateRick Stafford – Pastor for Houston, Austin, Temple and Corpus Christi and Regional Pastor for CaribbeanGlen Gilchrist – move from Seattle to Austin, Temple and Corpus Christi as Associate PastorBrandon Fall – move from Sacramento, California to Seattle/Tacoma, Washington as Associate PastorRichard Franz – move from Atlanta to pastor St. Louis, Rolla and Columbia, MissouriJames Sweat – move from Chattanooga to pastor Asheboro, Raleigh and Jacksonville, North CarolinaDarrell Lovelady – move from Los Angeles to pastor Nashville and ChattanoogaStephen Elliott – to pastor southern California congregationsWilner Pierre – move from Charlotte to Ft. Lauderdale, Florida as Associate Pastor and also to pastor congregations in the French Caribbean
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The analogy I would draw would be this...
A slutty woman, who has never been married, and with several kids each from different fathers saying the following, as she introduces her new "live in" that she just met recently at a bar to the kids...
"Now listen here children, this is Peter (or Stephen etc) and he is going to be your new DADDY and you better do exactly what he says! "
KIDS RESPONSE - "To hell with Peter, and furthermore I want a new MOMMY too! Im going to run away from home! "
This life is only a test. If it were a real life you would have been given instructions on what to do.
You would have been given these instructions in clear English directly from your teacher.
You would not have been asked to rely on fragments in ancient Greek or Hebrew, which you have never actually seen or read, translated into English by Satan's ministers.
You would not have to go to Living University and listen to characters with dubious reputations. You would not have to listen to any man. You would have gotten your instructions directly from God.
In a way, this makes sense. Iirc., Bummer Bob Thiel left LCG partially because Uncle Roddy included "the world's" Christians in his "great falling away" scenario. And, by Armstrong standards, that is a very liberal inclusion, indeed! Bad faux pas!
If Sunday keeping believers in Jesus Christ are thus hypothetically included in the great falling away, then unlike David Pack, Uncle Roddy would most certainly consider any sabbath keeping ministers who believed in the Binity, kept the Old Covenant Holy days and dietary laws, and maintained the sanctity of British Israelism to be fully qualified pastors or teachers, righteous keepers of the flock.
It is either that, or at least some of the involved parties secretly know that the whole thing is a man-made KKK (krock ka krap), rendering micro doctrinal differences totally irrelevant as compared to the harvesting of the tithes. Actually, that is what I would tend to believe, if it were not for two of the names on the list. I just don't know how radically a person's soul print changes over 40 years, but there was a time when I would have sworn to the personal integrity and sincerity of those two, one of whom is or was Doug Winnail's brother-in-law. But, this is Armstrongism, and I have to remember that one of my favorite coworkers at AC Press grew up to stab his wife to death, and is now serving life for his crime. That suggests that, yes, indeed, a person's soul print can become corrupted.
It surely gets complicated. You'd think these guys were simply managers from a secular company who had been hired away from a competitor. Come to think of it, that's probably the closest we can come to the reality of it all.
BB
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14, 15,16,...yep, that's sixteen assholes coming to your town soon!
In the early 90's when I first went over to the Global C of G, they were placing ministers who had taught the new doctrines in power without apology or explanation. These men never seemed to change their new doctrinal opinions, just kept it more quiet to get a paycheck.
There was even a minister teaching that Christ was an African man with dread locks.
They could not care less who their ministry is.
Does it matter?
All of Armstrongism is a crock.
Having now slept on this, it appears to be yet another sign of the end of Armstrongism.
No growth, either in the membership, or the ministry. In an attempt to reverse this downward spiral, they will take anyone who knows and can preach the basic doctrinal pattern, and is familiar with the authority structure. At this point, the larger groups are more than aware that people, including ministers, often have personal opinions which can differ from official doctrine.
Nobody is going for the scary stricter groups who claim to be preservationists. This is due to the prevailing lack of empathy and cruelty which accompanies that, the unreasonable level of financial sacrifice required (and the oft corrupt stewardship of the income produced!), and the very pervasive suppression of freedom of thought. These groups have tried to foster an artificial sense of urgency amongst their membership by fanning the flames of British Israel-based prophecy, but clearly, nothing is happening in this realm other than the same old isolated incidents pulled from context and irrationally amplified as Armstrongism has always done.
"Class of '95" has now had about 20 years to process what they see as having happened to their church. At this point in time, it appears that the fierce preservationists have lapsed into obvious cartoonish cultic behavior, while most others have reached some level of equilibrium. And, there is finger pointing and name calling, with the fanatical cultists who have exaggerated Armstrongism branding those who have not as being Laodecean, but even this is dying down. This, amongst largely invisible groups whose numbers do not even approximate those of your average community based mega-church.
BB
How many of these sphincter groups are there ?
Good observations Byker.
COGs are much like Rock Bands. They morph, lose members, have splits, often for various reasons...
1) Moral failing of the leadership of the band, like excessive drug/alcohol use.
2) Burn Out. Too much touring and work load and demand on the members of the band leads to departure.
3) The ease of startup. Bands just need a few instruments to perform. To breakaway is easy and not all that capital intensive. Breakaways can always pull from the past glory and promote as such.
4) Wanting to be individually creative and finding that identity, rather than that of the group/band branding.
5) Not being able to creatively destroy the niche and style that the band is locked into to continue as a commercial success for a new generation with new styles and material.
6) Being bored of playing "ReUnion Tours" and Casinos to an aging audience and singing the same songs they have sung 1000s of times.
The "Armstrong Renuion Tour" played by such groups as Flurry PCG and Pack RCG is playing to a smaller and older demo, and at cheaper and sleazier dives and locations. The "replacement" band members on that tour are a day late and a dollar short of the so called "glory days"
Only an old, slightly inebriated crowd, wanting to relive a forgotten and overly rose colored glasses youthful WCG, is paying to attend that reunion concert!
Excellent analogies, Connie! I couldn't have said it better!
These guys are performers, and their cults are based as much on their own personalities as on the message from the Armstrongism genre. In a sense, it's like watching Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones sit in with the Foo Fighters during an encore, as Dave Grohl kicks in with the classic drum beat from the Zep classic "Rock n Roll". (for those who don't know what we're talking about, check out the awesome youtube video!) The audience gets excited, but it doesn't launch a whole new era.
BB
"Living Church of God Places Dissident Ministers Into Positions of Authority Over Members"
That speaks volumes. It says a lot. It says it all.
Didn't HWA tell his Advisory Council of Elders that, after his death, under no circumstances was RCM to be allowed to run the church?
>>Didn't HWA tell his Advisory Council of Elders that, after his death, under no circumstances was RCM to be allowed to run the church? <<
I am not aware that HWA was that explicit on this matter. But it is quite clear that HWA did not want RCM to take over after his death.
This was made more clear to me after reading David Robinson's book, Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web.
Apparently he was shanghaied out of his position as head of the ministry in 1972 and he yearned to return to HWA's inner circle. Later during the receivership crisis of 1979 he aligned himself with Rader and proceeded to go after anyone within WCG who wished to cooperate with the State of California, thus protecting Rader from any potential legal troubles the receivership may have caused Rader and HWA.
But this was only an alliance of convenience. He tried to undermine Rader but failed miserably and was expelled to Hawai'i and Rader was appointed an Evangelist. Rader later fell out of HWA's grace in 1981 but this did not cause Meredith to be brought back into HWA's confidence. Robinson reports that HWA said Meredith was so righteous he was unrighteous.
Also he learned of Garner Ted Armstrong's adulteries in the mid-1960s. He reported it to HWA but he simply covered it up and Meredith followed his example.
It's time for Meredith and Flurry to go on their farewell tour.
Be sure to play the oldies.
so what happened to Bob Rodzaj?
Blogger Black Ops Mikey said...
It's time for Meredith and Flurry to go on their farewell tour.
Be sure to play the oldies.
March 22, 2014 at 5:53 PM
Not till Flurry reimburses me for seven years of non child support and all my tithes and offerings and pain and suffering and what ever else, asshole!
Do you know how much trouble it is to get orders reversed? I tried it. Took me almost three years to get a meeting with the OAG. When I finally did, my ex shows up with his hands in casts. I was sent a letter two days later stating that "It is not appropriate at this time to change the orders". Ain't that special!
Those PCG creeps saying I owe them money.
Did you hear about the eight earthquakes that hit Oklahoma today? Yep, about twenty miles from PCG Headquarters.LOLLL... (Laughing Out Loud Like Lucifer)
I always thought that the number one trait that HWA sought from his subordinates was absolute loyalty to him. Why would RCM want to bring into the fold ministers whose loyalty is in question?
Why would RCM want to bring into the fold ministers whose loyalty is in question?
Who else would you expect him to hire? Do you think he would hire a Living University-trained elder ahead of an Ambassador College-trained elder? Do you think Meredith would hire someone trained under Doug Winnail ahead of someone trained under HWA?
Remember that it was Meredith who kept Dave Pack on the Global Church of God payroll despite the many complaints from members and ex-members. Why would anybody expect him to care about the faithful local LCG elders now being put under the authority of these Hulme rebels, or about the LCG members who are taught to respect authority over them... even the authority of rebel ministers.
Everybody in LCG must understand that the top ministers and their cronies are allowed to play by different rules than the ordinary elders and members. That's how tithe farming works.
"It's time for Meredith and Flurry to go on their farewell tour."
But, even when Cher has another farewell tour, she keeps having more and more farewell tours.
My hope is that they are ALL presently on ACTUAL farewell tours!
Everybody...must understand that the top ministers and their cronies are allowed to play by different rules than the ordinary elders and members. That's how tithe farming works.
ABSOLUTELY!
Armstrongist "ministers" have been in and out of the 'United Church of God' more than any other splinters- and a look at the sleazy history of the United Church of God dovetails nicely with any study of how "tithe farming" works.
Meredith was deeply hurt when the majority of people leaving WCG went with UCG instead of Meredith. Rather than look at his own failings, he is so convinced of his own superiority that when someone, anyone, leaves one of the other groups to come with him, he feels vindicated. This is why the Raymond McNair "repentance" was trumpeted so loudly. The loyalty of the person coming to LCG is a distant second to Meredith's desire for prestige and power.
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