A reader here sent this to me.
I was out with some work mates today and we went to brunch at Coco's, a restaurant here in Pasadena. In the booth next to us were a group of men who were former WCG employee's in Pasadena. Some were from the legal department, some worked in the Auditorium and others in various departments or were church members.
For well over an hour I listened to these guys whine about the current state of the Church of God. Of course EVERYONE is wrong except them. They have extreme bitterness towards the WCG for making the changes they accomplished. These guys all seemed to know the correct answer to all the problems in the church and that only they were holding on to the truth.
I know for a fact that some of them are still in GCI even though they hate everything it does and says. Their thinking says, "God placed us here to support Herbert Armstrong and the true church. It is not up to leave it." So they stay and suffer and then get together to whine about it all.
What a sad group of miserable men these were. There seemed to be no joy in their conversations. Just bitterness and anger. Its almost 20 years alter after the changes and they still are angry.
I am so glad I don't have to worry about this kind of silly stuff any more. Thanks to this blog and a couple of others my eyes were opened to the false beliefs of the church. Keep it up!
DZ
25 comments:
Koo-Koos talking CA-CA at CoCos ! ??
Say that 5 times fast!
I have to wonder if at least some of those guys are amongst those who would tell us "Aw. just get over it!!!"
As a group, I never realized until after I left, how bad a bunch of whiners WCG members were. Paganism everywhere, new clothing styles and youth trends, music and hair styles, politicians selling out "Israel's birth right.", it just never stopped. These guys that DZ observed hadn't so much changed as they were simply continuing a life long pattern. Granted, they have new topics for their complaints, but the overwhelming negativity with which they were programmed remains.
It is their method of processing their surroundings.
I shudder to think of how they will react if the Kingdom isn't quite to their liking. If HWA is held accountable for his false prophecy and incest, and doesn't make it, they will probably walk.
BB
I'm not koo-koo for Coco's Church. Which one? The one on Lake or Michillinda? I'll be sure to avoid it on Sunday mornings.
While I have never been and will never be on the same page theologically as Joe Jr. (since I don't believe in God anymore), and despite the fact that IMHO, he did what he did partially to line his own pockets and is guilty of financial "irregularities" similar to the type that sent Inmate Weinland to prison, except on a larger and more egregious scale, I also do appreciate that he was partially motivated by a desire to drag COG people kicking and screaming into the 4th century AD. And to the extend that he was capable of destroying Armstrongism, or at least accelerating it's demise, he actually did everyone a public service. Not a good guy, but sometimes even villains do something good by mistake.
Those men sound pretty pathetic. They have not yet realized that they were tricked into joining HWA's WCG. They really need to learn to do something meaningful about it or just do something they like and enjoy.
One thing you learn after leaving a cult is that the world is so vast. And that this is good. They need to go out there, do something they can be happy about, and enjoy it. They don't need WCG, in fact they never did, even when they or their parents joined.
This conversation reminds of what one ex-LCG member wrote at Exit and Support Network.
"And of course, every time you go to the FOT and get together with all of these "old-timers" the conversation always is about what happened after HWA died and the Joseph Tkach takeover, etc. It's like they are just stuck in this time warp!"
The woman also stated that she was never fully accepted by the LCG congregation because she was converted after HWA's death.
http://www.exitsupportnetwork.com/recovery/testimony/question.htm
Ohmigosh! Are there STILL people holding onto the idea that you DON'T MOVE from the "original" organization (don't go with Flurry or Pack or anyone like that), but wait . . . and wait . . . for some strong personality to appear and take everything back to like it was when Herbert was alive! Are you [bleep]ing kidding?
Still haven't gone to the front door to pick up your common sense, your ability to discern reality, your brain . . . your life?
The whole Herbert thing is DEAD, guys!!! DEAD! We testify to that here! The last holdouts' demise is happening!
Oh, those poor fools!!!!!
Reaction to the experiences with the COGs can be whatever one wants it to be, but bitterness is one that I choose not to have. I was recently accused, by a good friend, of being bitter because my thoughts are different than those who remain with a COG organization. I am still puzzled by that reaction.
I actually look at my long association with the WCG and UCG as a learning experience. It was part of the journey to better understanding as I call it. If I had remained in the protestant state of mind of my youth, I probably would not have begun the studies into the meaning of the words in the Bible about 9 years ago. Those studies were the result of beginning to truly listen and hear things that made no logical sense. HWA said many times to blow the dust off your bibles and prove what it says. I finally did that rather than just accept what was taught.
There were many good times and fantastic friendships developed through those many years. Some of those considered as close friends before may not be so close now. But as has been said in the last couple of years, "My friends may leave me, but I will never leave my friends."
Anyone heard from Jesus lately?
After reading the comments, I don't see any difference between the spoken of group and the posters here. I include myself here to the point that I am one of those that still believe in biblical truth, but not in HWA or those that have built their own organizations.
Each person is responsible for their own beliefs and actions; even though some may be questionable.
These guys have not moved on to anything, They still think HWA was a prophet, apostle and the restorer of all truth. Some of them still are in GCI and others are in LCG. One of them still believes HWA will be resurrected and restore the COG's to wholeness and unity. They ignore the corruption that filled WCG through the decades and look back on it with fondness as the glory days when God was walking with the church.
DZ
So you were once a part of a group that manufactured toxic poisons whose only purpose was to kill people painfully and to market it to people to make those at the top of the corporation rich -- you know, like making cigarettes, but this was religion, instead. And the corporation split because it couldn't agree with what type of poison to sell.
Does this make it easier to understand?
The Orange Papers will help explain what you were in.
If that's not enough for you, go read "Moral Mazes" by Robert Jackall which describes the structure of the WCG and GCI quite well, though not specific to either.
Well you kinda worry about it since you have a blog about it.
How old are these fools?
According to Wikipedia, the median age in the U.S. (half older, half younger) is 36.8 years. Someone that old today would have been 8 when HWA died, barely old enough to remember him. So half the U.S. population is too young to remember HWA. And probably far less than 2% of the population (that would be 6 million people) would recognize his name. HWA's memory is dying.
They are all over 60-65. Old enough to know better!
DZ
"I am one of those that still believe in biblical truth, but not in HWA or those that have built their own organizations."
Yeah? Tell us again how HWA was prophesied in the Bible.
There's something about this that's making me feel hungry-
MMMMMMMMMMMM... I can still remember the sweet chocolaty jesusy taste of Cocoa Puffs!
About ten years ago, when there were probably only about 500 splinters, I let my imagination go wild. I asked myself, what if somehow I had an accident that involved brain injury, and I forgot that the US and BC are not Manasseh and Ephraim, that Germany is not Assyria, that all Armstrong mold prophecies have failed, that HWA committed incest, and all that I know about science and DNA? What if under those circumstances, I suddenly and inexplicably decided that the church had been right, and was looking for a place to attend?
How could I, or anyone else in that set of circumstances, even begin to choose the "proper" splinter? I don't believe that anyone could do that with reasonable assurance that they had chosen correctly.
Would you go with the splinter your relatives are with? Friends whose knowledge of the Bible and personal example have always been exemplary? Or, would you go with one because of its leader? And, would that be because of the love in his ministry, new truths, strict "Philadelphian" standards, or the most faithful imitation of HWA? How tithes were used to do "the work?" Or do you go with some underdog whom you feel sorry for? Largest congregation closest to home? Flip a coin, or devise some sort of lottery?
Do people in the ACOGs even think that deeply when choosing? I am sure that members speak very dogmatically in explaining why they made their choices. They surely do not mince any words when leaving the fold of obvious frauds! But the fact that frauds exist is perhaps the greatest red flag that perhaps all ACOGs are frauds
What do you do about your church after Gamaliel is through with it?
BB
Anonymous said...
"I am one of those that still believe in biblical truth, but not in HWA or those that have built their own organizations."
Yeah? Tell us again how HWA was prophesied in the Bible.
July 7, 2014 at 7:26 PM
Answer: HWA was prophesied to come:
Zec 11:16 For, lo, I will raise up a shepherd in the land, which shall not visit those that be cut off, neither shall seek the young one, nor heal that that is broken, nor feed that that standeth still: but he shall eat the flesh of the fat, and tear their claws in pieces.
Zec 11:17 Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock! the sword shall be upon his arm, and upon his right eye: his arm shall be clean dried up, and his right eye shall be utterly darkened.
HWA did all of the above. He did not care about the flock. He He did not heal broken families, but rather caused the breakup of many families. He 'ate' the best of the flock by robbing them claiming that he was entitled to the tithes, when the scriptures plainly say that the tithes(if they belong to anyone),are to go to the Levities. HWA fulfilled the prophecy that he was a worthless sheppard that was elevated to the status of an idol. HWA left the flock to travel the world. His right arm (GTA) was totally withered, having not the holy spirit. His right eye was totally blinded. He had vision in only his left eye.
As to what is transpiring in the cogs today, the following though mainly applying to Yahshua, also paints what is happening today.
Zec 13:7 Awake, O sword, against my shepherd, and against the man that is my fellow, saith the LORD of hosts: smite the shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered: and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.
Zec 13:8 And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.
Zec 13:9 And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: they shall call on my name, and I will hear them: I will say, It is my people: and they shall say, The LORD is my God.
How do these guys differ from us ordinary folk. It is common for folk to complain about their employers yet stay there because they need the income.
They don't need to worry about "the truth" or "the kingdom" because no one has ever agreed on either - not even during the time of the "apostles".
The Peter, James and John company thought the kingdom was the restoring of the kingdom to Israel (Acts 1:6). Paul & company thought the kingdom was a heavenly kingdom (paradise) in the third heaven (Gal. 4:26; Heb. 11:16; 2 Cor. 12:2-4).
These two companies didn't agree about keeping the law of Moses either - as Dennis has pointed out several times on this blog.
With all that disagreement and each company accusing the other of lying, is there any wonder that "the truth" is only what people want it to be?
None of them work for the church any more.
DZ
Jesus H. Christ Sweetbread777, do you have any brains? Do you seriously believe that the ancient book of Zechariah foretells the rise of an obscure advertising man and pedophile to become an obscure cult leader? Meanwhile ignoring the reign of Victoria, two world wars, the development of vast nuclear arsenals, and the invention of the computer and the internet? But the only thing worth mentioning from the ENTIRE 20th century was this small-time pedophile? Seriously?
However, there's also a couple of problems with your identification of the pervert. First of all, GTA was not his firstborn, nor his favored son. If other people could be identified as the "strong arms" of Pervert Armstrong, then Richard would have to have been the right arm, which was amputated (by Don Billingsley) upon his death on July 30, "as the first real martyr for God's cause in these latter days just before the RETURN of Christ in all power and glory" (still waiting, and, in the mean time, who are the rest of the "real martyrs"?). Which means, if you go with this silly interpretation, that GTA would be the Pervert's left arm which was "dried up," not the right one. I will leave it up to you, dear reader, to decide which of the pedophile's remaining three appendages Dorothy was.
How many other holy books, such as the Qur'an or the four Vedas, also mention this pedophile? HELLO, obviously, all of them do—IF you read them right. Just as obviously, all of those who have followed ALL of the other holy books have never had the secret, esoteric, gnostic, hidden knowledge (that ONLY a pedophile was good enough to be chosen by Yah-shoe-ah to bring) so NONE of them have ever been able to read their holy books right. But do any of them mention his pedophilia? The bible sure doesn't.
This sheer arrogance and hubris, that was the true gift a lowly, self-important pedophile with a magnificent sense of entitlement gave to those who were stupid enough to sign up to be his worshipers/followers.
Face it, Sweetbread777, all this secret, esoteric, gnostic, hidden knowledge that a pedophile claimed to be in possession of, was part of an elaborate con. Neither he, you, nor even the bible, have ever had any of that. Why? Because none of that sort of mystical "knowledge" has ever existed!
12:48, can't a believer joke or satirize? Is humor the private territory of the atheists and agnostics amongst us?
To Anonymous: It is obvious that you are too emotional in facing what the biblical texts plainly say.
You will have more credibility if you calmed down before running off at full throttle.
Calling others names because they have touched a live wire, plainly shows to all that you are judging with an unstable mind.
I knew of people attending WCG congregations in 1996 that completely disagreed with every doctrinal pronouncement since 1986 and yet still attended services every week at the rented hall. Never understood that myself. I guess they were waiting for their own "strong hand from someplace" to show up sooner or later and set things back to pre-1986.
Interesting comments. After leaving a long, long time ago I now see that HWA was no more remarkable than most other cult or TV evangelists. And what was so special about the message, and what exactly was it? What was the message that had to be preached to the whole world before Jesus returned? During HWA's era it was something like, the world/age is ending soon (like 1975), then there will be the millenium but first most everyone will be tortured etc. and be careful not to end up in the lake of fire. Is that what we tithed for, to spread this message. I have no idea what the message is now, the same with a date adjustment or what?
I do agree with the analysis of an anonymous who said there is no way that OT prophesies would be about a man like HWA or his son. There is a whole world out there full of people much more remarkable than an American who adopted 7th day Adventist and British Israel beliefs. Perhaps there is something in the Bible about me too, Weinland is in there, Flurry is in there........
Post a Comment