Several years ago Rod Meredith declared that he had never committed a major sin since baptism. Now he declares he cannot make a "huge" mistake. It must be a grand life knowing that you are incapable of ever doing anything wrong or sinning in a big way. That logic is about as sound as being "doubly blessed" and starting your own church.
Sinless Herbert and Loma, the father and mother of us all, apparently were guileless and sinless, till a bunch of sniveling backbiting members entered the scene.
We have brethren right now – and my word doesn't prove it to you – one thing I'm grateful, we have a lot of very human people in the work, but at least the leading ministers overall have been the most dedicated, the most solid, the most loyal men closest to God that I have ever experienced since the earliest days of the Church when just Mr. and Mrs. Armstrong were the father figure and mother figure. Pretty quick after that human nature came in and people were playing games – not horrible, I'm just saying we had a lot of [it], very obvious – now so many of the men like Mr. Ames, and Dr. Winnail, and Mr. Gerald Weston and others have been tested and tried, and tried and tested, and they have been walking with God, they've been put through the mill so to speak, and you have a group of men, that if anything happens to me, that have been tried and tested for DECADES, DECADES in the way of God. Will they make mistakes? YES! Did Mr. Armstrong ever make mistakes? Of course he did; he said many times, he said, "Herbert Armstrong has made HUNDREDS of mistakes." But he said, "God has never allowed me to make a huge mistake to destroy the Work." So he'll let us make little mistakes, but not huge mistakes, and then he'll straighten it out in his time.
27 comments:
Of course God let Herbert Armstrong make a mistake so big it destroyed the work. He let him appoint Joseph Tkach.
As a former LCG member, it is now clear to me that Rod Meredith is by far the most political leader in all the COGs. Every decision and announcement he makes is not done unless he first considers the consequences to his power. An example is a very petty one, but significant because of its pettiness. A few years ago, LCG was short on cash, so they skipped an issue of the Living Church News. Did Meredith just come out and say, "we overspent on TV and have to skip one issue"? No, he flat-out lied: "We are not skipping an issue, we are re-dating." Was he afraid people would flee a sinking ship if he told the truth? I don't know, but it is clear he trusted more in a lie than in telling the truth and trusting God. Hard to believe a church leader would lie to the people of God over such a minor issue. However, this is a pattern for Meredith that goes all the way back to Global, and has been repeated often in Living.
So, 10:40, you're saying "the work" was destroyed in 1985. Good point, thanks for clarifying that the movement did, indeed, end 30 years ago.
Now, try to get on with your life.
It's incredible that people can be so gullible.
It's a cult.
Get over it.
A number of years ago, an LCG member stopped by the UCG and began to complain about how horrible -- just HORRIBLE -- it was. I opened my Bible to II Timothy 3 and began reading. I ended with "from such turn away" and said, "why don't you obey the Bible?". He had nothing to say and NEVER talked to me again.
So, LCG members -- why don't you obey the Bible you claim to believe and turn away from Meredith and all the evil he represents? You really do know better. Why don't you do something about what you know?
I have yet to come across a HWA based organization in which Yahweh came first. All of the organizations are foremost a business. And that business uses religion as an inducer to gain and keep members. These members have been hoodwinked into paying approximately 35% of their earnings into the business.
For this, they are given monthly/bi-monthly magazines and assorted booklets. They also get the 'privilege' of listening to a sermon that most likely they heard before, depending on how long they have been a part of the business.
Overall the members of this business receive very little for their hard earned cash. Most likely their families have suffered financially, whereas the 'owners' of the business have lived abundantly: living in high end housing; buying expensive clothing; food; having a brand new vehicle every 3 years; getting a 10% of their income for feast days; and receiving other perks that no members receive.
Yahshua never intended for this to happen. He warned from the very beginning that His representatives are not to become 'lords' over His flock. They were to set the right example for the flock to follow. They were to serve His flock, even to the point of laying down their lives for the flock. Have any of the businesses managers, falsely called ministers, ever done this? No. Instead they have shown themselves to be hirelings, taking advantage of the rich lifestyle offered by the owner of the business, by remaining loyal to the owner of the business.
Members need to understand that they are committing idolatry by putting these men between them and Yahweh. None of Yahweh's true representatives injected themselves between the people and Yahweh. They lived simple lives, as their brethren did. Even Peter said to the one seeking alms, that he had no silver or gold to give him. What Peter did have, was the Holy Spirit which he used to heal the man. Where are the healings today. Did not Yahshua say that healings and miracles would accompany His true representatives? What does all this tell us? It boils down to this. They are not His representatives, or they are His representatives, but because they are following the money, they lack sufficient amount of the Holy Spirit, that they cannot heal.
Rod Meredith is a compulsive and pathological liar.
6 decades and no personal growth or repentance. He continues to be an ego driven liar who feels any and all tactics, no matter how unchristian, are justified to achieve the desires of his greedy, power-hungry little heart.
I fear for him in the Day, when the book is opened and his works must be accounted for.
He has driven so many away from God and destroyed so many lives
I agree with 6:35.
LCG wants us to believe that we need the ministry as intercessors. That we need to submit to them and obey their every whim or our very salvations are at risk. In LCG, to question the ministry is akin to questioning Christ himself.
Guess what LCG brethren? The Levitical priesthood was done away with.
Jesus Christ is our Intercessor.
Your LCG minister can do nothing to sure up your salvation. You alone are responsible for doing that. Wake up before it is too late!
Well except the Joe Tkach mistake
Does anyone know what the turnover rate is in these churches? What is the average duration of membership? How about demographics? What is the average age of the members, etc.?
"If something ever happens to me"? Better to say "when I die..."
Plenty of "YHVH"'s representatives have injected themselves between him n his cultic followers. Priests n scribes for starters.
HWA never made a major mistake!! How about incest? That is not a major mistake?
"HWA never made a major mistake!! How about incest? That is not a major mistake?"
Let's not blow things out of proportion. These kinds of things are only a mistake if god says they're a mistake. Or hasn't told your victims to honor you no matter what you do. Or hasn't given you a vaunted title.
It's important to keep Divine Command Morality in mind. If god tells you to do something, then it's okay. If god tells you to enslave others, then slavery is ok. If he tells you to wipe out an entire nation, then those babies aren't going to kill themselves. If he tells you to marry your rapist, then let the wedding bells chime. Woe be unto anyone who dares to claim to have the knowledge to tell the difference between good and evil. Isn't that the moral of the Adam and Eve story?
In this case we have a trifecta. Not only did god never prohibit a man having sex with his daughter (look it up, you won't find it), he told daughters to honor their fathers regardless of what they do (the 5th commandment)! And to top it off, god made HWA an "apostle," which means the rules that apply to everyone else do not apply to him, right? Because god is the only one who is allowed to correct an "apostle," isn't that what we were always told to tell ourselves? And we know that HWA was an "apostle of Jesus christ" because he told us that's what Jesus christ told him to tell us (nothing circular about that).
So, yeah, if you really believe the bible is the word of god, and that HWA really was an "apostle of Jesus christ" sent to restore "true christianity" after 1900 years, then HWA raping Dorothy is prettymuch a token of HWA's virtue, not a "mistake," disqualification, or a blemish on his record. Or a crime, either...
Anonymous said...
Does anyone know what the turnover rate is in these churches? What is the average duration of membership? How about demographics? What is the average age of the members, etc.?
December 9, 2015 at 7:57 AM
__________________________________
Think McDonald's. Turnover constant and certain.
Well, I just wonder what might have happened if the top ministers had taken positions of real leadership, and had gotten behind the corrections which HWA's hand-picked successor had implemented. Assuming that God was ever even with HWA/WCG, what if that was what He had actually intended? It is perfectly obvious that the rebel, outlaw HWA preservationists have in no way been blessed. They have been mercurial at best. Could they be fighting God, and not even realize it?
BB
Anonymous December 9, 2015 at 4:28 PM said:-
“Not only did god never prohibit a man having sex with his daughter (look it up, you won't find it), he told daughters to honor their fathers regardless of what they do (the 5th commandment)! “
Wrong on both counts Anonymous, you need to use just a tiny bit of logic.
Leviticus 18 lists many relationships that are prohibited. Verse 7 states:-
“The nakedness of thy father, or the nakedness of thy mother, shalt thou not uncover: she is thy mother; thou shalt not uncover her nakedness.”
So this is prohibits a relationship of a son or daughter with either of their parents.
So if, for example, a daughter is not to have a sexual relationship with her father, it follows that a father having sex with his daughter violates this, regardless of it being mutual, or one party forcing the other.
As regards children honouring their parents – yes, but only if it doesn’t violate what God has laid down. Clearly God has stated that any sexual relationship of children with parents is wrong, even more so if it is forced from one party to the other.
Acts 5v29 states:-
“Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men”.
There are many other examples in scripture of this principle.
Bob is spot on. Meredith likes to measure God's blessings in healings, income growth and attendance numbers.
If that is in fact the measure of God's blessing, LCG must be cursed.
Questeruk, your critique of Anon December 9, at 4:28, indicates you need more green leafy vegetables in your diet. You show symptoms of irony-deficiency anaemia.
(I spelled that last word your way to make sure you didn't misunderstand.)
Rod wrote: "...human nature came in and people were playing games – not horrible, I'm just saying we had a lot of [it], very obvious – now so many of the men like Mr. Ames, and Dr. Winnail, and Mr. Gerald Weston and others have been tested and tried, and tried and tested, and they have been walking with God..."
Rod, like Mr. Ames, Dr. Winnail, Gerald Weston and others unmentioned may have been tried(and who hasn't?) and tested (ad who hasn't?), but they still seem to be just babes!
For example, what is the connection between human nature and playing games?
Human nature is "very good," or God lied to us!
"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Genesis 1:31
God created Adam and Eve and He created their human nature. There was no evil in that nature. It was like a nature of God put into those two human beings. There was no "playing games" with human nature. Hence, the names of the men cited above seem to be like babes. Perhaps they need to study their Bibles more and get familiar with something called carnal nature and how one becomes "sold unto sin," but stop blaming human nature, something good that God made and strive to tell us that it is somehow evil! If there was a problem wit human nature, then there was a problem with God creating it. One may as well blame God, then.
The men above have the following nature:
"Do ye think that the scripture saith in vain, The spirit that dwelleth in us lusteth to envy?" James 4:5
It is that spirit that causes carnal nature, and will result in sin(s) in one's life! Or, as the Apostle Paul said:
"Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." Romans 7:17
Do any of those men mentioned above think they are anything like Paul?
:20 "Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me."
And yet, Rod goes on to say that God: "...let us make little mistakes, but not huge mistakes, and then he'll straighten it out in his time..."
Mistake?????? Did Rod mean sin? Different sins cause different problems, but little sin or big sin gets one the same wages: death!
Where is Rod's proof that God is doing anything with the "living" group? They seem to have stagnated to the year 1986 or earlier. Where is the growth in knowledge? In grace? Where is the fruit? Real fruit: not boastings.
Human nature is "very good." Why would anyone (Rod, Richard, Doug, Gerald...etc.) not agree with God on that?
Tested and tried? What means that? We're all tested and tried........and usually come up wanting. What's new? The only really perfect One was Jesus Christ, who of Himself said He could do nothing. Was Jesus aware of knowledge, more than the knowledge about very good human nature, that Rod, Richard, Doug, Gerald still need to learn more about?????........
John
Irony-deficiency anaemia!! (Thanks for the clear translation Prof – yes, we like to add a few letters here and there in our words over here!)
Ironically, I did get the irony in the original post.
Sometimes straight postings are answered ironically – thought I would answer irony with a straight post.
But don’t worry, I will take your advice, and go and prepare a large mixed salad – that should do the trick.
Der Schpankster has been getting very Jesus-y over the past couple of years.
He often states that the LCG should be preaching more about Jesus.
I guess the old miscreant thinks that ignoring Jesus for the first sixty years of his ministry was no big mistake. `
on December 10, 2015 at 8:53 AM
Retired Prof said...
"Questeruk, your critique of Anon December 9, at 4:28, indicates you need more green leafy vegetables in your diet. You show symptoms of irony-deficiency anaemia."
What's the problem, Prof, what are you trying to say? I thought Questeruk's logic to be quite sound, not lacking in vitality and backed up by scripture.
cheers
ralph.f
Sorry, Ralph.
I suffer from advancing age and a chronic case of cynicism, so my tolerance for earnestness is pathologically low. I restrict my carbs and supplement my green leafy vegetables with a modest amount of red meat, poultry, and fish, but a balanced diet has failed to balance my outlook.
The commandment to honour ones parents, is referring to a role. Biological parents who constantly abuse their children are not parents but anti parents. Such parents deserve dishonour rather than honour. 'There ain't no free lunch,' equally applies to parenting. Honour must be earned.
These guys major mistake was in being born in the first place! It reminds me of a little comedy sketch I wrote for one of the other sites, oh, probably 10-12 years ago, about a fairy god mother named "Condom-Lisa Rice", who went aound introducing condoms to people like Herbert W. Armstrong's daddy on the night that would have been Herbie's conception. We could have used a fairy god mother like that!
BB
on December 11, 2015 at 11:51 AM
Retired Prof said...
"I suffer from advancing age and a chronic case of cynicism,...."
Having recently attained the age of 80 years I can empathize here however WRT cynicism I do as best I can to avoid it.
also
"....but a balanced diet has failed to balance my outlook."
Perhaps a liberal serve of Eric Idle's "Always look on the bright side of life" found 'HERE'
or otherwise 'HERE' might help this condition.
cheers
ralph.f
"Incapable of making a huge mistake?" This is laughable. How about committing, and still committing the monstrous sin of rejecting and hiding trade, a la parable of the talents. Trade means being motivated by self interest and desiring maximum profit. It means mutual consent for mutual gain. But this is repugnant to these splinter churches who all think in terms of master-slave. In these churches you have the big people, the masters such as the misters who have all rights, and the little people, the slaves, the ordinary church members who have no rights. They hide this by making rights, what's that? a taboo. They mislabel this as 'obedience' and 'church government'. No it's not, its stealing peoples lives. This is putting bully morality before Gods word. Talk about putting lipstick on a pig. The ministers know that Gods way is trade, they are not ignorant. Shame on them all.
Post a Comment