Saturday, November 11, 2017

The Dark Side of Dave Pack "Ending Your Financial Worries"

Never forget

 "I want to make a statement, if I became deceived, I will never tell you what I'm going to tell you now...I am telling you  if I go off into strange ideas,  misconduct, rebellion, you name it, don't follow me. I want to tell you that now, because if I start doing that I'm gonna try to get you to follow me! I'm gonna come to you and tell you it doesn't apply, it doesn't mean me, no, no, no, no, no, no, it's OK to follow me because ABCD and XY and Z. Do you understand what I'm saying? Listen to me now, when I tell you don't follow me if I go off into weird ideas, or if I get off into other things that are total absolutely unscriptural conduct, because if I do I'm gonna paint it with a different face and try to get you to follow me. Do you understand what I'm saying brethren? Please remember that, because I promise you that if I become deceived, I'll forget it, and I'll want you to forget it...And  I hope you'll remember it well enough to quote it right back to me...But I'll tell you what, I'm not going anywhere."
David C Pack
December 12, 1998

Can Do!!!

 "Now let's talk about Wills. Naming the Restored Church of God in your Will sometimes might cause an individual to think they're doing the right thing. That's good, that's wonderful. But they feel comfortable that they've done their part. Think about it. How much faith does that require? The Church gets everything when you die and you don't need it anymore? Where did you sacrifice anything?? Now again, that's a nice thought. But all you're saying is since you're dead you don't need anymore financial security. No faith. Get it now— When it requires faith. When you're dead you don't need it. We have people who have hundreds upon hundreds of thousands of dollars— some even millions— they're telling us they're going to give us in Wills. We're kind of put in a funny position when you think this through. Do we pray that people die so we can get it? We can't do that! I'm going to get an inheritance from my uncle some day. I don't pray that he dies— I can't do that...Don't put God in the position where you have to die, where He must say "I need that money" and you won't turn loose of it now. If you named us in your Will, it could take months or years, particularly if there's litigation before we have it. Think it through..." [talks about the natural "cycle of death" bringing funds to the church]
"We live in a strange, different, final generation—final generation. Don't look for excuses to hold on to your treasure! We don't have the luxury of waiting years...Today, leaving everything in your Will doesn't work!"
"The wives in the faith will say give everything you can...We don't have the luxury of waiting, leaving everything in your will simply doesn't work"

" I've talked about using a Home Equity Line that I've used many times. And there are ways to do this. This is not something that's pie in the sky. Home Equity Line is for people who have a lot of equity in their home, or maybe have their home paid off. It's a great way to advance funds to the Work. You can also leave enough in the Equity Line, which could, in affect, for years – make your payment for you – so you literally don't feel it. For instance, you can get 20, 30, 40, 50 thousand dollars— or much more— and never feel a payment for years because you're also making your payments out of the Equity Line. I have done that. It allowed me to give a lot and never feel it. It takes faith..."

"The worst that can happen, and I'm prepared for this— is that you run it all the way up, and then you have to amortize it in a term loan after 10 or 20 years. It requires some faith, but not a lot. Now you just have a second mortgage instead of an Equity Line. It's converted into a term loan, paid over a period of 10 or 20 years, starting in 10 or 20 years. It's what I've done. I'm prepared to do it. And then, frankly, we flee before most of it ever comes due. That's just the way it is."

(Don't tell your mortgage lender)

"If you hold those riches, I'm telling you, you trust in them"

"Go get a big chunk out of your home. And put your money where your mouth is and send it here. And I'm not talking about one, two, three thousand either. How about ten, twenty, thirty, fifty, or one hundred thousand dollars? Go do it."

"Wives, you can be independent in this. You have 1/2 the worth of whatever you have in your house.

I'm officially telling you this...Wives, legally you have the 1/2 the funds. What are you going to do about it?...Husbands...'well, my wife is not in the church'...tell her...'you don't have a voice woman"

"Go get those assets and get them here"

"Don't sit on vast resources that we can use now"

"We are not a splinter"

"I do not covet your silver or gold...the gold and silver is God's and He will get it someway"

"We do not have the funds...plans...bookstores...We need to redesign our web site...We need many hundreds of thousands of dollars to arrive at God's headquarters soon...the timing is now"

"This is different...ask Him for the faith to liquidate certain assets and give it to the work"

"I'll say it again, we are talking about liquidating existing all belongs to God and the brethren"

"We have a lot of plans so big going on in this office it would cause just this room to to rock and gyrate if you knew what was going on. We just need a lot of money and we need it post haste...I would give more if I had it"

"Herbert Armstrong wrote an article...'Prepare to greatly reduce your standard of living'...What he wrote by far, is more for us now than it was then... its all going to be taken away from us anyway brethren"

"There will be follow-up sermons. Time to bring in related points"

"Every year, believe it or not, a significant number of people either skip or forget one, two, even three or four of their holy day offerings. Now how is that possible? I might ask such people— and maybe this is you— who are you kidding? How can you possibly believe that you're going to sit on a throne beside Jesus Christ and be given power over the nations if you disobey a fundamental command like that, and particularly one attached directly to whether or not and how you feel you've been blessed? Who are you kidding? Go find a different church!! You simply don't believe God, and this one does."
"Some people adopt their own standard and frequency of when they'll pay God's tithes. If it isn't convenient, they'll simply "skip" months. They'll simply skip paying tithes. "Oh, it didn't add up this month," so they skip it. We see it every single month, there are people that profess to believe that tithes belong to God, and they just skip them..."
" If members do not take care of their fellow brethren through additional second tithe that they did not spend, and I'm saying "Follow my example," there are people who get to go to God's Feast— quite a few of them every single year— because I choose not to spend my excess second tithe, which I'm allowed to keep. [Starts yelling] And others, who are not allowed to keep it, don't send it in, and people can't go to the Feast! And that's wrong! That's wrong! We have people that make huge sums of money— where's the extra 5, 6, 7, 8, 10 thousand dollars in second tithe that they aren't sending in?? I'll tell you where it is— They're stealing it and pretending they're going to be in the Kingdom of God! And they're keeping others from going to the Feast. I know there's a certain latitude— you can spend it up to a certain reasonable limit. You need tires to get to the Feast, or an extra suit; you can do that sometimes. But people play games, sort of "It's mine and I can spend it. I'm using it to go to the Feast and I'm going to need my new laptop for the Feast. That's stealing! With tires or multiple suits, or get a new car, lots of clothes for the family, buy all the kids fall school clothes— I'm trying to use examples of what people do, who couldn't possibly use all their second tithe for the Feast. They just couldn't possibly do it. So they're stealing from other people and stealing from God because that money comes from God and it's keeping other people from going.
" There are others who don't pay third tithe. The church is not obligated to spend third tithe caring for the brethren that we do not receive. You are required— it is a command to you— every third and sixth year in a seven-year cycle, to send third tithe in and care for your brethren..."

"Let us know how much you plan to send and when you plan to send it...You must be willing to communicate... If you do need to counsel, please do that...If you are not ready to distribute what you don't believe the flow of prophecy"

"This is announcing the last blast, the clarion call as it were, to finish the work...Whether it is 4,5,7, 9 years to go, God knows...This is liquidating assets...I have the authority to tell you to do it... I have the moral and spiritual, and ecclesiastical authority to tell you to do what I have also done"

"Get it now when it requires faith... when you are dead you don't need it... if you named us in your wills, it can take us months or years to get it"

"The wives in the faith will say give everything you can...We don't have the luxury of waiting, leaving everything in your will simply doesn't work"

"Now you just have a second mortgage... and frankly we flee before most of it ever becomes due"

"...some may think that they want to tap their 401k--maybe you want to let us know that... why would you want to tell us? We are starting to prepare a budget now, the needs are would be nice to know now"

"Think big...Pull big triggers"

"There is only two positions you can take regarding all that I have mentioned, only two, there is no middle ground. You're either going to yield, to submit and to follow, the clarion call that the time is now or you're not. And postponing a decision is deciding not to do it...It's saying I'm going to wait until it gets closer because it is not there yet...Don't say that I'm going to wait until it gets closer, when I can see...The decision is that my treasure stays on earth or I goes to heaven. Period. I will not lay up for times to come or I will. And this is the real test of Laodicea... either hold on to your assets... or give it... God is in this decision, no question. Testing the church's faith"

"We live in the most materialistic age in the history of the world. People trust in physical things. They trust in bank accounts...If you have excess and don't need it, those verses mean you...That's the Laodicean attitude...Put your money where your mouth is...Empty your assets"

"There is only one place He works...Where is...that's where God is elder commented here at headquarters, if people can't be motivated by a clarion call to finish the work such as this, why will those same people somehow believe the internal signal given to the church of the 1335? Why would they believe it?"

"This is the Laodicean age..."Be careful that you don't tell us how to spend your assets... It belongs to God.. You don't tell God or His servants how to spend it"

"Your faith is being tested. Think about that"

"We will all fast on November 17th...I have to...ask you for a very special financial sacrifice for God's work"

"The purposes of the fast...(a). To fast for God's intervention...(b).Fast for personal faith and courage to follow what I am asking you to do...(c). Fast for personal strength...(d)...Fast for faith and courage in others with more than you to give...Go get a big chunk out of your house...their assets, IRAs, and pension funds...(e). Ask God to move specific properties...that they have told us they want to sell. Pray that these properties move...that is part of what this fast is about"
David C Pack-The Clarion Call-November 3, 2007

Yes...for you and your family if you join the Restored Church of God

 Being a Delusional Pastor lying to the members

Absolutely and preferably with your feet

Ok..Let me take charge of your finances!
  "Be careful that you don't tell us how to spend your assets... It belongs to God.. You don't tell God or His servants how to spend it"


Anonymous said...

David P.O.S. Pack is all about getting your money. He is one of the most selfish, greedy hypocritical bastards to ever become a false minister in the Armstrong cult!

Byker Bob said...

What advice could we give to the people who are vulnerable to this "rhetoric" and duress from David C. Pack? The first thing I can think of is, "Don't let Dave do your thinking for you! Your mind is a terrible thing to waste!"

Quite honestly, the next step is obvious. You should change your will so that your family is provided for. But, also include an organization that agrees that a mind is a terrible thing to waste! In fact, if I were a member of the RCG, I'd make a sizable donation to the UNCF in the name of David C. Pack. That way, some future nck could point to it as being a secular reason to love and respect Pack's legacy. And, you know that your donation will also accomplish major good!


Connie Schmidt said...

Enlightened charitable organizations , like the Salvation Army, will pay you a lifetime annuity for gifted charitable lump sums given to their group. These are backed by investment pools and proper financial management.

No one goes "broke" there if they were to give all to a "common".

Anonymous said...

David C. Pack's literature for his Restored Cash Grab (RCG) cult needs to be updated:

Original title: Doing the Work Through Your LAST WILL and TESTAMENT

Should become: Doing Evil Through Your LAST WILL and TESTAMENT

Original title: End All Your FINANCIAL WORRIES

Should become: Start All Your FINANCIAL WORRIES

Original title: Taking Charge of Your FINANCES

Should become: Losing Control of Your FINANCES

Anonymous said...

Are These the LAST DAYS?

Probably, seeing as how Satan sent psycho Dave Packman, the devourer of everyone's house, not just the widow's house. Dave is the “bait and switch” changer of what HWA had taught. RCG members were initially expected to have proven that HWA was right and to solidly believe all his teachings. Now, RCG members are required to prove that HWA was actually wrong about many major teachings, and to prove that all of Dave's new nonsense is right.

Just What Is “The Unpardonable Sin”?

Going along with deranged Dave Pack and supporting his massive doctrinal changes that are “proven” by his rantings and ravings and yellings and spittings. If you fall for Dave Prick's Restored Church of Greed scam, you will never forgive yourself for being so stupid. Your let down, betrayed, and abandoned family members might forgive you--or maybe just have you institutionalized.

Should Christians VOTE?

Yes, with their wallets, by not supporting depraved Dave and his scorched earth policies that leave his followers “wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked.”

Taking Charge of Your FINANCES

Do this by not letting Dave the demoniac access your bank account. Turn off his endless evil noise too so you do not let him access your mind either. The danger is far greater than just his spittle hitting you in the face. A demon could come out of his continually flapping mouth and get into your ear.

nck said...

This comes close to extortion.
How unfortunate if you are trapped by Dave Pack.

Unfortunately it is the same technique and scheme the governmental social engineers, in cooperation with the banks, pulled on the people. By increasing the debt of the populace (through mortgages) one gets a population that is less inclined to rise up to their employers and enhances peace in the social domain.

re BBC documentaries Jacques Peretti.
"Billion dollar deals and how they changed your world."
"The men who made us spend."
"The super rich and us."

As we say in the business.
Take loss immediately!
This organization is a falling knife, no one should try and catch it. Just leave and take whatever losses it takes to get away from Dave Pack, whatever the cost, whatever the psychological hurdles to take loss.


Anonymous said...

"Don't tell us how to spend your (tithe) assets...". This is from the church that micromanages members lives. They tell members how to spend all their financial assets, including their time and effort (since control is ownership) but demand that their rights be carefully respected.

Again the 'the ministers all rights which must be religiously respected, but the members have non.'

Sweetblood777 said...

Pack makes Obama look good. Both are professional liars and extremely greedy. They both only care about themselves. They both worship themselves. They both make out as if their words are god-given. They both have abused their authority. They both hate the people they are supposed to be serving. They are both lead by a demonic spirit. Finally, they are both abominations in Yahweh's sight.

Anonymous said...

Decades of hearing about the 'give way' has appreciably weakened peoples mental moral defenses. As in war, after the enemies defenses are down, do a full frontal attack. Daves common doctrine is that frontal attack. Thugs and bully ministers do it on a individual level all the time.

Weaken you enemy, then attack. The goal? Steal everything.

Anonymous said...

80% of tithe money goes into administration. Such as office renovations with deeper carpets and newer cars for the ministers. The ones with heated driver seats. Not forgetting the regular minister junkets to foreign countries for ministerial conferences. Why use the internet for conferences, when you can fly around on a 747 and be treated like royalty.

Anonymous said...

"They're stealing it and pretending they're going to be in the Kingdom of God! And they're keeping others from going to the Feast. I know there's a certain latitude— you can spend it up to a certain reasonable limit. You need tires to get to the Feast, or an extra suit; you can do that sometimes. But people play games, sort of "It's mine and I can spend it. I'm using it to go to the Feast and I'm going to need my new laptop for the Feast. That's stealing! With tires or multiple suits, or get a new car, lots of clothes for the family, buy all the kids fall school clothes— I'm trying to use examples of what people do, who couldn't possibly use all their second tithe for the Feast. They just couldn't possibly do it. So they're stealing from other people and stealing from God because that money comes from God and it's keeping other people from going"

Duet 14: 26; International Standard Version
You may spend the money to your heart's content to buy livestock, flocks, wine, strong drink, and whatever you desire. You and your household may eat there and rejoice in the presence of the LORD your God."

Anonymous said...

Some people who believed Daves 2007 article and mortgaged their houses, must have lost or are in the process of losing their homes.

In most developed countries, the total tax rate is about 50%, and much higher if government debt is throw in. So surely the orphans and widows that the third tithe is primarily directed towards, must be adequately carted to by todays governments.
But nope, members must pay a extra tax called third tithe. The ministers use this money to make extortionist demands on the recipients, use it to pay for minister retirements (more extortionist demands are made such as lording over it over these ministers faith), and history shows, use it for other unrelated uses. No one knows the proportion of the above three uses, and must trust their leaders.

Anonymous said...

please have a look at the new "Davie- A" video you may enjoy this one :)

Anonymous said...

oops here is the link

Dennis Diehl said...

Ohhh now there you went n done it!šŸ˜±

Anonymous said...

Isn't there a scripture in the Bible about leaving an inheritance to your children and your children's children? Of course I realise that weird religious people have often alienated their children and would further punish them by leaving their inheritance to some crazy church. At least check out the guy and see if he is the right one and not a nutcase. And how does he live? Better than most of the church members I believe.
Ultimately who will remember you in the future? Most likely your children will remember you in some context, an inheritance might improve that context.

Byker Bob said...

There is an old commentary on human nature to the effect that once you've made it, once you've reached a certain level of wealth, you can then afford to be honest and to demonstrate integrity.

The rules that Dave Pack lays down, and the honesty and integrity that he demands be manifested towards him are simply unattainable. He is putting his people in a very difficult position, one in which they simply cannot be accountable to his rules in these financial matters with any sort of honesty, and yet still survive. Members can give the appearance of compliance, but even if the rare person starts out with the resources to comply, once Pack impoverishes them, they are reduced to the same lowest common denominator as the rest. So, in effect, through this impossible situatuon, he is causing their consciences to become seared, causing the Holy Spirit (which his group doesn't even fully understand) to become grieved, thus making himself at best a toxic spiritual guide. That is the consequence of his management style, and certainly he must realize this on some level.

HWA used to use the phrase "count the cost". Now, while he made it psychologically impossible to rule him and his church out, at least he did suggest a cost-benefit analysis that would partially satisfy prospective members' intellectual needs. If David Pack, or any other toxic, overbearing, authoritarian ACOG leader makes a prospective member aware of all the requirements of membership, the prospective should firmly state, "That is absolutely ridiculous!" and leave immediately. If he doesn't give full disclosure prior to baptism or transfer from another ACOG, the member should still hold him accountable weeks after for his omissions, void whatever implied contract, and once again, leave.


Anonymous said...

"buy all the kids fall school clothes—"

That's the only time my family and I ever got what we needed, and even then it wasn't enough, after all, the parents needed to send in excess 2nd tithe.

Anonymous said...

In Pack's letter to the brethren for common he said, if you had a million dollars that you could keep $15000, and send him the rest. True story.

Minimalist said...

Anonymous said...
"Some people who believed Daves 2007 article and mortgaged their houses, must have lost or are in the process of losing their homes."
There's no denying that the dummies are on a learning curve

"HWA said (apocalyptically) 'Reduce your standard of living'"
Wasn't that like six economic booms ago??
...making Dave's guru a false prophet??

Anonymous said...

No doubt David Pack will lead by example. He will sell his house and automobiles. Local church members can take turns having David Pack sleep overnight. David Pack will gladly eat anything meal made by the church members. If any member has a dog, the dog house would make an acceptable residence for Mr. Pack. This will possibly teach Mr. Pack humility.

What About The Truth said...

Dave Pack many times in his sermons would mention how the Tkach gang led 100,000 members away from what they once understood like taking candy from babies. He himself has been not only smart enough to lead many away from what they once understood but to also lead them to giving him everything they own "just like taking candy from a baby". The premise for this latest push for assets is so that he can start a fire - the fire of the tribulation featuring the Antichrist in his words. His doctrinal narrative of it all, is horrific. The members stay believing and obeying all of this in fear, in fear of having to go through this fire with the threat that it will get hotter and hotter until they pay the price of giving him all their assets. I saw the results of this extortion first hand when a member received a royalty windfall, sent it all to Dave Pack and in a very short time got ill and lost his job and then his house. No church help, just U.S. Govt. welfare and disability for this man. What a shame!

Minimalist said...

After many strikeouts, Perbert was finally convinced that the Apocalypse was at hand around 35 years ago. He proclaimed to his titheslaves: "Prepare now to reduce your standard of living". But no-one noticed Perbert reducing his high standard of living or tightening the fifty-seven-inch belt around his portly frame. Same with Prophet Pack commanding austerity as he moves into his very palatial new mansion!

nck said...


I remember that. That was about 1984 - 1985.

Oh I wish I had indeed reduced my standard of living at that time and invested the proceeds of such action into a global fund. I would be posting from the Caymans by now. It was good advice in 1985.


Anonymous said...

Herbs 'prepare now to reduce you standard of living/tighten your belt,' is a commie expression.
As is 'they don't get it,' a left wing/commie expression
As in 'human nature needs to change,' again a commie/left wing expression. That is, the theory doesn't work so reality has to change rather than the theory.
As in unity being a big Herb theme, which is a text book commie theme. That is, in the name of unity, stomp on people. So forget about freedom of thought and freedom of expression.
As in church tyranny being a commie trait as well. Etc, etc.

Herb submitted to the tyranny of commie tradition rather than bible morality.
The worldwide church of Joseph Stalin.

Anonymous said...

What isn't told to the spouses that along with their entitlements to half of the marital assets, the only way to make it binding in community property states is if they also file for separation or divorce. So in essence, this also encourages the breakup of families and marriages, just another way of doing it. I should know, I am in the middle of this very thing right now. I expect to be single soon. It is premeditated and well thought out and after months of telling him he doesn't have to do this, I told my spouse that once it's done, it's done, no going back. I don't feel forgiveness is going to be a part of anything once things don't turn out the way he thinks they will. Maybe I will forgive him one one level but not on all. I refuse to get back in the cage with him.

What About The Truth said...

Anon 5:55 AM - Your experience is probably the most unfortunate result of the willful actions of the leadership and ministry of the RCG. They know full well the results of forcing this action (The 50% grab) upon the non-attending mate. It is shocking that they perpetrate this extortion while ignoring plain scriptures against causing the result of this practice. It used to be that the non-believing mate was respected for being "pleased to dwell" with the believer. But the sense that I got from the ministry of the RCG was that there was more of a requirement of being "pleased to agree" for the unbelieving mate. This thinking makes it easier and quicker to council all the problems away for the minister and especially now with the 50% ($) requirement in play. Lest anyone forget, This is the organization that stated in the failed 2013 prophesy messages that they would be the ones "fixing" all the results from the wife swapping going on in the splinters when they all came back to the RCG.

Byker Bob said...

Good points, 5:11. When does a mate traditionally receive his or her 50%? Upon final decree of divorce! Is this point lost on Pack? Cashing out in this way constitutes defacto divorce!

There is only one word that accurately describes David Pack: asshole.


Anonymous said...

The night of August 29th, 2013, I laid in bed somewhat scared but excited at the prospect that at some point during the next day I would hear God's voice and that He would instruct all the churches back together and infuse us with the power and money to do a great work.

David Pack gave a sermon to the entire RCG membership stating that they were going to fulfill the Malachi 4:6 commission, that it was on his shoulders to fix families that would come into the church from all the different splinters on Elul 24.

But when that totally failed and the income he boasted about never came, he threw Malachi 4:6 out the window and aggressively pursued individuals with money, sending his minister to pressure those individuals into giving God what belonged to Him in the first place.

He sent his ministers to pressure these people and to disregard their spouses because salvation was a stake and their spouses would never understand common anyway and that later on in the second resurrection they'd those unconverted mates would thank their spouses for doing the right thing even though at that time is cause division in marriage.

This is the tactic. There is currently one lady at HQ who gives a ton of money to RCG, she was given permission to move into the area and join the congregation, they rolled out the red carpet for her and so long as the money keeps rolling she is respected, if she ever stops I'm sure they will utterly destroy her character in order to undermine her credibility. Ohhh I used to be so loyal to RCG but I became sick to my stomach how they treated the membership and mind played so many of them.

The people there are so very sweet, people trying to do the right thing but just trapped by the belief they are somehow special or in a place that is different and genuine.

But when the words do not genuinely match the actions and the countless eyewitness accounts including from those directly working with Pack, including his very own children.

You have to know something is wrong. They will destroy your character and credbilitiy the one thing they preach and teach you to have before you can open your mouth and sound off alarms.

Dennis Diehl said...

Thank you for sharing your experience and observations

Minimalist said...

Why does RCG have HD-television studio but no Herb-like program on TV??
Also why doesn't Apostle Pack have a Herb-like Executive Jet??
And why doesn't RCG have a Herb-like showpiece Auditorium??
And why doesn't RCG have a stately Herb-like English Campus??
The PCG has all these, making G.F. look like the new-Herb!!

Minimalist said...

I find Flurry's Dustbowl duplication of Armstrongism more convincing than Pack's Rustbelt replica:

If I was looking to buy salvation using the Armstrongic formula, PCG would be the one.

True, my money may end up as mere greenhouse gases:
Jet vapor-trails or apostolic gourmet flatulence.

nck said...


I'm going with the Auditorium in Beijing. (for which hwa handed the blue prints to Chairman Deng). I believe it is a trade hall now. Used to be big in the 1990's. But that city is now 4 times what is was in the eighties. Ah well. The blue prints for capitalism, 3 wcg people were instrumental both real and symbolic.


Anonymous said...

Minimalist 11:40 AM

To answer your questions: Television is soon coming on a station near you. The jet was talked about in the past, but with the man Jesus soon returning to Wadsworth, Mr. Pack and HE will need a way to get around. The auditorium will be started as soon as the builder can get time. The campus is supposed to have a little bit of all three AC colleges incorporated into it, but the lay of the ground and the surroundings limit how much.

Good day to you

Byker Bob said...

Got pictures, nck? All I get by Googling is huge buildings. Nothing like the auditorium.


nck said...

Ah yes BB. I'll try. Its difficult to find with the emphasis on all the modern buildings. I ll come back to that.


Anonymous said...

I am anonymous 5:55 I have one more thought, exactly who is the unbelieving spouse? My husband thinks it's me, I think it's him. I guess it's according to what one's perception is. Which one believes that Christ, grace, mercy and love are above anything the law provides for? Which one is truly the unbeliever?

nck said...


It is/was called "The Golden Gate Exchange Center" in Beijing and I saw it once.

I have a hard time finding a picture of that 1989/1990's building on the internet because of the now that there are so many breathtaking modern architectural designs in Beijing.
If you really need a picture I could over time spend some time searching for you.

In the meantime I will leave you with this information and some pictures of the US Embassy in Beijing as to give you a taste why the Chinese might not have disapproved of the Auditorium design in the early eighties.


nck said...

The Worldwide News of Nov. 26, 1984, reported, “Mr. Armstrong suggested to Mr. Deng that the People’s Republic of China should have a high-quality concert hall and cultural center, which it now lacks.” He then offered to donate Ambassador Auditorium’s architectural blue prints and to aid in securing international finance to help with his proposed humanitarian endeavor.

The 10-day talks featured meetings, facility tours and discussions between architectural, mechanical and electrical engineers from the Beijing Architectural Design Institute and Ambassador Auditorium’s house and stage managers, technical support supervisor, plant engineer, interior design and maintenance coordinators, architects from Ambassador College and Daniel, Mann, Johnson and Mendenhall, the auditorium’s design company. On March 18, at his office in the Hall of Administration at Ambassador College, the Chinese delegation met with Mr. Armstrong for progress review and evaluation of construction material samples.

Built in 1985, this was China's first ever professional concert hall with high quality sound facilities. The performance space on the first ground seats over


while art exhibitions are mounted on the
upper levels.

There is a lower platform which reduces the space between performer and audience. A 15-panel reflective board hung above the stage in three groups sends sound waves from below to every corner of the hall, maximizing the acoustic effect.

The Hall fascilitated China's first steps in contacts with the international cultural scene. Today modern structures fascilitate more cultural exchange, though todays quality of the performances in the Hall are still of the highest calibre.

Also the quality of the sound is lauded in most publications. (In the beginning there was Sound (re Genesis)

(however it is only a 1000 seater, like the auditorium, whereas todays modern structures host many many more dwarfing the days of first beginnings)


What About The Truth said...

Anonymous 5:55

No offense unto you personally for the "unbelieving" statement. The unbelieving spouse is taken from I Cor. 7:12-14 and is Church of God speak from way back in time until now.

Way to stand up for yourself and continue to do so, for you will need to. What you are up against isn't just about money and marriage - it is pure evil. The mandate fostered upon the membership based upon a horribly corrupt theology from one greedy man is a catalyst for the putting away of a spouse. Jesus Christ spoke angrily about such a practice and the compound result of committing adultery when the two who formally where one go on to marry others. That oneness of the marriage is typified by the Passover ceremony - the intercourse of the flesh and blood between Christ and the called out one. Pentecost brings more of that oneness via the Holy Spirit. The Acts 2 "had all things common" was just a practice to bring about a physical oneness for the believers. Might I ask, what kind of man, what kind of minister and what kind of church would not only teach against, but force an outcome contrary to all of the truth above? A (The) true church would not only make sure you and your husband were recipients of physical common but would see to the utmost importance of enhancing your marriage via teachings of judgment, mercy and faith.