This was posted on a COG-related facebook page yesterday. Thre are many parallels in the posting that echo what went on and still goes on in the Church of God today. All of the crazy charlatans in the COG are doing this same crap and they are driving people away from from the church and God. Who really needs the god of Armstrongism? Where is love found in the church these days as it is busy condemning anything snd everyone? The Church of God is losing members today at a record pace and its leaders are too stupid to realize why.
The Christians Making Atheists
Growing-up in the Church, I was taught that the worst thing one could be was a non-believer; that nothing was as tragic as a doomed soul that condemned itself by rejecting God. The religion of my childhood drew a sharp, clear line between the saved and the damned. All that mattered was making sure someone found themselves on the better side of this line—and the Atheists and Humanists didn’t have a shot.
In light of this supposed truth, the heart of the faith (I was told), was to live in a way that reflected the character and love of Jesus so vividly, so beautifully, that others were compelled to follow after him; that a Christian’s living testimony might be the catalyst for someone’s conversion. The Bible called it “making disciples” and it was the heart of our tradition. As the venerable hymn declared, we Jesus people were to be known by our love.
What a difference a couple of decades make.
Just ask around. People outside the Church will tell you: love is no longer our calling card. It is now condemnation, bigotry, judgment and hypocrisy. In fact, the Christianity prevalent in so much of America right now isn’t just failing to draw others to Christ, it is actively repelling them from him. By operating in a way that is in full opposition to the life and ministry of Jesus—it is understandably producing people fully opposed to the faith that bears his name.
In record numbers, the Conservative American Church is consistently and surely making Atheists—or at the very least it is making former Christians; people who no longer consider organized religion an option because the Jesus they recognize is absent. With its sky-is-falling hand-wringing, its political bed-making, and its constant venom toward diversity, it is giving people no alternative but to conclude, that based on the evidence of people professing to be Godly—that God is of little use. In fact, this God may be toxic.
And that’s the irony of it all; that the very Evangelicals who’ve spent that last 50 years in this country demonizing those who reject Jesus—are the single most compelling reason for them to do so. They are giving people who suspect that all Christians are self-righteous, hateful hypocrites, all the evidence they need. The Church is confirming the outside world’s most dire suspicions about itself.
These people aren’t stupid. They realize that bigotry, even when it is wrapped in religion or justified by the Bible or spoken from a pulpit is still bigotry. They can smell the putrid stench of phony religion from a mile away—and this version of the Church, frankly reeks of it. People are steering clear in droves, choosing to find meaning and community and something that resembles love outside its gatherings.
With every persecution of the LGBTQ community, with every unprovoked attack on Muslims, with every planet-wrecking decision, with every regressive civil rights move—the flight from Christianity continues. Meanwhile the celebrity preachers and professional Christians publicly beat their breasts about the multitudes walking away from God, oblivious to the fact that they are the impetus for the exodus.
And one day soon, these same religious folks will look around, lamenting the empty buildings and the irrelevance of the Church and a world that has no use for it, and they’ll wonder how this happened. They’ll blame a corrupt culture, or the liberal media, or a rejection of Biblical values, or the devil himself—but it will be none of those things.
No, the reason the Church soon will be teetering on the verge of extinction and irrelevance, will be because those entrusted to perpetuate the love of Jesus in the world, lost the plot so horribly, and gave the world no other option but to look elsewhere for goodness and purpose and truth.
Soon these Christians will ask why humanity has rejected Jesus and we will remind them of these days, and assure them that they have not rejected Jesus at all—they just found no evidence of him in their Church or in them. JOHN PAVLOVITZ
46 comments:
It sure as hell made me one! I have never been surrounded by such miserable people that were totally devoid of Christian love. I left Living Church of God last year and do not regret it at all!
They can drive you away from attending their church worship services, through their low down dirty tricks and slyness and trying things on with brethren that beggar belief. BUT and its a biggggg BUT they CANNOT drive you away from your relationship with GOD. God is worshipped in spirit and truth.
He knows the sub culture of the modern day Pharisees. Their day of reckoning will come. I strongly believe Atheists and far worse are in significant positions of power. God remains slient to them. They know Him not. They know not the truth. Politics and gossiping about brethren is their sport and consumes them.
I left the WCG in 1995. I not only realized that Armstrongism was based on many false assumptions but that all religion was based on a lot of false assumptions. I am an atheist now.
"ARMSTRONG WAS A MAN UTTERLY WITHOUT HONOR, WITHOUT PRINCIPLES, WITHOUT A SHRED OF GENUINE DECENCY OR PATRIOTISM. HE WAS THE ULTIMATE EXTERMINATOR OF RELIGIOUS LIFE FOR THOUSANDS, AND THE GRAND COMPELLING CREATOR OF A VAST ARMY OF ATHEISTS."
------------------------------
Does that cover it?
Beth said...
It sure as hell made me one!
LOL I know what you mean but if one is sure of Hell, they aren't atheist! :)
Dis-illusionment, and who wants illusions to guide them, is the first level of atheism. It does indeed revolve around the contrast between the idealism taught by the ministry and expected by the members in everyone else and reality. This level is usually handled by the disillusioned being told that either "we all sin" and all the associated concepts that should hold us in our place no matter or that, as I have had put to me, "well you just had a bad experience with THAT Church. Ours is different and you will love our people and our pastor who is amazing....." etc. That one man show, as we know is a risky road to dis-illusionment and level one atheism. Some here on Banned just had a bad experience with WCG but then found the real true religion elsewhere.
The next level is Agnostic, which usually simply means "I don't know" and probably don't care anymore. It means "without knowledge"" We hold this view as the fall back to the concept of just in case or the deeper version is that one simply cannot know, cannot prove in any real sense there is a God, or "theism." Belief is a conviction. Lack of belief is a lack of conviction so in effect if you lack a belief in theism or a God, you're actually a-theist or without a God to believe in or be able to prove at least exists. But Agnostic is an easier position to take because it implies, at least to others who might give you a hard time over it, that someday you will come back to the faith which by now we should understand from Hebrews 11:1 really says: "Now faith is the hope that what we believe is actually true based on absolutely no evidence that is actually true." That's actually what it means.
A-theism, or without theism based in much more homework and critical thinking, something which is terribly lacking in most people who either have no time for it or the cost of thinking critically is way too high. Atheism is a serious and final departure from the faith. One does not "used to be an atheist." Atheism is not just based on a bad experience with a church or even all churches. It is based on, dare I say, the scientific method of inquiry leading to vastly different conclusions as to origins of not only the universe, life and humans but also of the stories we tell ourselves and why we tell them.
I personally am an a-theist, not because of my experience in WCG , the behaviors of others or my own inability to "become perfect as your Father in heaven is perfect" (that would do it right there! lol), but because of my personal acceptance of the evidence that, in our times, we are fortunate enough to have access to in the various scientific disciplines which better explain our world than does scripture. It takes a stubborn ignorance to hold religious dogma in place along with the Holy Trinity of Fear, Guilt (I did a bad thing} and Shame (I am a bad person).
I personally don't consider myself a "worm", "the cream of the crude", "desperately wicked" , "fallen away", "Twice dead" or possessing the kind of wisdom or knowledge the gods laugh at. Being alive, human, conscious and one of a kind is amazing enough for such as short time as we live to explore it all.
“With every persecution of the LGBTQ community, with every unprovoked attack on Muslims, with every planet-wrecking decision, with every regressive civil rights move—the flight from Christianity continues.”
Just to be perfectly clear about what that writer was saying:
The person who wrote that supports homosexuality, transvestitism, gender confusion, etc. and the current LGBTQ persecution of professing Christians.
The person who wrote that supports the Muslims in their war against the West.
The person who wrote that supports the “man-made global warming” wealth redistribution agenda that wants to take millions of jobs and billions of dollars away from the USA and give it to other countries.
The person who wrote that supports the agenda of promoting interracial marriage.
The person who wrote that thinks that Sunday keeping churches are Christian and that they should show “love” by supporting wickedness rather than by obeying God's commandments which tell how to truly love God and neighbor.
The person who wrote that thinks that the God of the Bible is “toxic.”
The person who wrote that stuff is toxic.
Dennis, maybe it's a generational divide, but I perceive that many ex-WCG/ACOG members retain a belief in God, but reject the idea that this God has revealed itself to mankind and has demanded uniform obedience to laws that it didn't give directly but that have always come mediated by some leader or priesthood seeking power over the obedient.
Call it Deism, if you like. It is hard to imagine that there is no intelligence behind the wonders of the atom and the cosmos and everything in between. Yet it is even harder to imagine that any Bible, Koran, Vedas, etc. are lawbooks for all of mankind, and that the supreme intelligence behind the Universe is sending floods and famines to punish those who marry the wrong people or eat the wrong foods or perform the wrong rituals.
Anon 6:49AM, you don't seem to understand the difference between sin and Christianity.
Jesus lived in the midst of terrible sin carried out by unrepentant sinners. Yet he did not persecute those sinners. He spoke and lived the Truth. He didn't support sodomy, but he left the sodomites alone. The one group he did persecute, physically, was the group of people making money off of Temple religious practices.
Anon 6:49AM, if you attack LGBT people and Muslims while failing to take action against the lying, theft, covetousness and fornication going on within your own church's leadership, you have got Jesus' message EXACTLY BACKWARDS.
If HWA is responsible for thousands of atheists, then the pope is responsible for billions of atheists.
Sometimes it seems that only DD and I went to the same church, the rest not so much.
Then I think Oh yes and No2HWa of course, who seriously knows how to start a sermon with a joke. BB, would have been one of my rebel friends, quite neat when the parents are around, then going to all the "wrong" movies during talent show, early to leave.
As a matter of fact I think we all went to the same church. Atheists? Hardly. Most professing atheists here are agnostics and quite civilised also.
nck
Anon: 6:49
A typical acog comment. Self righteous, holier than thou comment. Everyone but you and your little group are sinners. You are going to be the elect, teaching the rest of us how to be righteous. God so loved the world is so wrong! Your little group needs to inform God that he is wrong. The thief on the cross could not have been promised salvation because he was perfect like you. I see why people are leaving the acogs
Jim-AZ
The process involved in becomng part of Armstrongism is very much different from the process of becoming Christian in that the teachings of Herbert W. Armstrong systematically destroy anything and everything that humans could trust, look to as a source of education, take joy in, or rely upon, and then it attempts to replace that all by focussing members’ lives soley on Armstrongism. There is considerable sleight of hand and brainwashing involved, to the extent that in members’ minds, only Armstrongism is “of God”, special, totally different from anything else knowable by man. HWA becomes a quasi-Biblical figure in the same peer group as Moses, Elijah, or Jesus Christ. So, when the wall comes tumbling down, and all of the slipshod theology, lies, and false prophecy are exposed, along with the fact that the leaders don’t “walk the talk”, soon to be ex-members are left with nothing in which to believe, because the classic teachings of HWA have already destroyed mainstream Christianity, or as they call it, “Christianity falsely so called” as part of the indoctrination process. There is nowhere to run, and no one to run to. This is by design. It is carefully a crafted and planned lifetime entrapment. If they take everything in their experience at face value, and don’t indulge in some critical thinking and careful restudy, they will remain incapable of seeing the alternatives which are available to them. Once one’s very minds have been “burned”, recovery as a functional, well-adjusted human being is nearly impossible. This is why “the cult” is so dastardly. It is very much similar to electro-convulsive “therapy”.
I’m not going to delve into this beyond articulating the genesis of the problem. There are typical thought patterns into which most ex-members tend to fall as they grapple for solutions and hopefully equilibrium. It often becomes very partisan, right foot either flooring the accelerator, or locking up the brakes. Binary, with no balance or moderation. Embrace my way, or be stupid. Human thought patterns are generally highly variable and function on a spectrum. Armstrongism, if you let it, destroys perception of the entire broad band of mid-range, and only allows the extremes on either end of the spectrum to filter back in.
Yes. Armstrongism makes atheists. But, only if you continue to walk within their maze. Remember, they forecast this in the “if you ever leave God’s Church” part of your programming. It’s one of Herbie’s time bombs.
BB
6:49 -
Your arrogance and judgemental attitude continues to pervasively flood through this blog. I'm becoming convinced you are some ACOG minister. I just wonder which one.
FIRST - There is a serious problem in the "Conservative American Church" that feels they need to treat the LBGTQ Community like absolute, complete, repulsive trash to the point one prominent pastor said that they should be "rounded up and put in cages". Anyone with half a brain in their heads who is a Christian knows that that kind of an attitude will never fulfill a Christian's mission, is not an expression of love "leading to repentance", judges the outside when judgement should be reserved on the inside (see Paul's writings), and flies in the face of the approach Jesus took when talking to those who were involved in ways against Jesus' teachings. Where the Church should be showing Jesus in their actions and as the answer, the Church instead condemns them in fiery rhetoric and pulls them farther away then towards the Church. This is what the writer is talking about - the hatred and fire the Church gives to those different from their moral and doctrinal lifestyle. There's no way the Church (as a spiritual organism) would ever gain a convert with their attitudes the way they act.
SECOND - Notice that the writer said "Unprovoked". What the writer is saying, again, is that the Spirit of God - the Spirit that draws people to Himself - is absent. Again. The Church is to draw people to themselves using the Fruits of the Spirit. To show Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. You aren't seeing this. You're seeing in so many ways people acting in a manner Jesus never condoned, nor practiced in any way, shape or form. Jesus always fellowshipped with those he was not supposed to fellowship with - the Samaritan, the Woman at the Well, the Tax Collector. The current movement is not practicing anything to draw people to Him. They're just pushing people away.
THIRD - Not to get into a huge global warming argument. But your opinion is down the line red conservative thinking. The reality is, whether we are in a cyclical upswing in global meteorological patterns, or whether we are on an unprecedented spike, rising sea levels is a documented fact, so is the acceleration of the rise in global temperature. It's also true that both sides of the spectrum are politicizing these changes to their own benefit.
FOURTH - "No, the reason the Church soon will be teetering on the verge of extinction and irrelevance, will be because those entrusted to perpetuate the love of Jesus in the world, lost the plot so horribly, and gave the world no other option but to look elsewhere for goodness and purpose and truth. " = TRUTH.
FIFTH - You keep on going on and on about your hatred for "Sunday Keepers" as the most wicked and vile people to ever pollute the face of the Earth. Many people who "Keep Sunday" are the most loving, attentive, caring, Jesus-centered, Faith-Focused people I have ever known who would lose their right arm or leg if the purpose was good, and right. Your condemnation is without merit, because you are looking at everything except what you should be looking at.
You triggered a memory, nck. I think it was the AC senior ball at the Hollywood Palladium. Myself and a good buddy sneaking away from the boring festivities and antiquated boogie woogie at the USO type music, to grab a sixer of Colt-45 and down it at a neighborhood gas station, then to return to the approved event just in time for the reading of the senior class will, a fortunate thing, because both of us were featured in the “Don Rickles” type humor of the graduating class, and of course everyone looked for us when our names came up. You had to know how to be a successful rebel outlaw.
BB
I would agree that many church members are very poor Ambassadors for Christ. What would Amos have to say about these church goers? If you can't live like a Christian, don't let anyone know that you profess to be one. You are giving God a bad name; driving people away.
I don’t even understand how Conservatives and leaders of certain select industries would be against the tremendous wealth that is being created by the emerging green technologies. But, I guess Thomas Edison and Nikola Tesla had an uphill battle against wealthy whalers who saw incandescent lighting as being their ruination.
Green technology will continue to be developed whether or not coal is revived, whether or not EPA standards are relaxed or abandoned, and whether or not our oceans and lands are opened more to drilling and mining.
Even if the US secedes from global environmental efforts, the financial sector, venture capitalists, and manufacturers driven by the profit motif will soldier on. Politicians and talk radio personalities can’t possibly dumb down everyone.
BB
Anonymous on June 29, 2018 at 7:19 AM said...“Anon 6:49AM, you don't seem to understand the difference between sin and Christianity.”
There is no difference between Sunday keeping “christianity” today and sin. Technically, modern professing Christianity is a sin. Sin is the transgression of the law of God. And that is exactly what Sunday keepers do in order to observe their own traditions of men.
Anonymous on June 29, 2018 at 7:53 AM said...“A typical acog comment. Self righteous, holier than thou comment.”
Yes, probably holier than you.
Yours truly,
(signed)
Holier than Jim
Anonymous on June 29, 2018 at 8:53 AM said...“Your arrogance and judgemental attitude continues to pervasively flood through this blog”
Humph! Strange that you would feel that way.
I thought that you were the arrogant and judgmental type--not to mention sinful, shameful, humorless, etc.
I thought that I was the good-looking, humble, wise, gracious, intelligent lover of truth.
We cannot both be right. So, look again and see if you can find where you made your mistake and went all wrong and bad and devil-worshippy.
Anonymous on June 29, 2018 at 8:53 AM said...“Many people who 'Keep Sunday' are the most loving, attentive, caring, Jesus-centered, Faith-Focused people I have ever known who would lose their right arm or leg if the purpose was good, and right.”
I have met Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, and Evilutioinists. I have seen what they are like, so do not think that you can BS me that easily.
More likely they would lose their right arm or leg or mind or even everything for a purpose that is bad, and wrong. Then they would try to argue that the purpose was good, and right. But what credit would that be to them?
Anonymous on June 29, 2018 at 7:19 AM said...“Anon 6:49AM, if you attack LGBT people and Muslims while failing to take action against the lying, theft, covetousness and fornication going on within your own church's leadership, you have got Jesus' message EXACTLY BACKWARDS.”
One can, and should, reject sexually immoral rebels like Garner Ted Armstrong, false prophets like Gerald Flurry with his new commission to cause division, covetous thieves like David Pack with his prophetic vomit, failed prophetic fiction writers like Ronald Weinland, and all sorts of other bad characters on the so-called COG scene WITHOUT turning to homosexuality, transvestitism, Islam, Sunday keeping, or other errors.
BB, you triggered many memories also of attempts at staying sane at AC. I was well-known as being the rebel and for slipping out of boring functions briefly (including church) to receive inspiration from Colt 45 16 ouncers, only to return at the appointed time. In the age of micro-brews, I still consider that to be a great malt liquor, at least in my unclouded memory.
Looking back and laughing at the insane times at AC is therapeutic, even tho I'm still crazy and an outlaw after all those years. I definitely outlasted the hypocrite GTA, who attacked me many times in sermons and forums due to my music, longer hair, beard and faded jeans. Rock is dead, long live rock!
"People outside the Church will tell you: love is no longer our calling card. It is now condemnation, bigotry, judgment and hypocrisy."
Holy crap! Sounds just like the fake liberal media! Sounds like some people on here too.
"Science" dogma is as bad as religious dogma.
HWA-ism is rooted in the Messianic and apocalyptic cult of Judaism and the idea of a chosen people. So of course there is an in-group and an out-group. Many Jews are as cultic as the WCG split-offs but they always get a pass. They are perhaps the world's only apocalyptic doomsday cult that has nukes. They have also threatened to use them against Europe if they don't get their way like a spoiled child.
Green energy does not produce wealth. It is a cost center and a busy-work project. There is a difference. Spain tried it and failed. How stupid can people get?
Atheists give atheism a bad name. It has no morals (except lying). Even worse, it gives Islam a good name!
"Growing-up in the Church, I was taught that the worst thing one could be was a non-believer; that nothing was as tragic as a doomed soul that condemned itself by rejecting God."
Yep, same here. Now I realize there's nothing as tragic as those doomed, unbelieving souls that condemn themselves to Ragnarok by rejecting Odin. Just kidding, of course.
But seriously, at the same time as I was being taught to be a believer in one, I was also being taught to be an unbeliever in thousands more. When I left, I was "admonished" by the pastor that I was being "reckless." After all, how could I be so sure that I wasn't "throwing it all away"? But then, how can christians be so sure they're not tragically "throwing away their eternal life" by not believing in Odin? The answer, of course, is by the fallacy of special pleading. That's what makes them sooo damn sure.
I wouldn't say that it was the church, or the pastor, or anyone else that "made me an atheist." Really, that's giving them credit for what was several years of work on my part, piecing together a comprehensive and holistic case — for or against — 1) assessing the origins and history of Judaism and Christianity and that of their respective texts, 2) the gods that those texts assert, 3) the validity of the church and it's interpretive framework, 4) the evidence on the ground in the real world. I simply wanted to know what was most probably true based on the available evidence.
At every turn I found I had been lied to, and that the evidence pointed away from, not toward, the merits of all four of these things. Given the complete and utter vacuousness of the case for these things, once I began asking those "pesky" questions in earnest, religion didn't stand a chance. Of course, on the flip side, if their cherished beliefs had a shred of validity, they probably wouldn't have had a thing to worry about.
Believing things that are contrary to all the evidence is the height of intellectual irresponsibility. If I hadn't been indoctrinated from birth, none of this garbage would have made it past my bullshit detectors later on. Believing in gods makes about as much sense as believing in leprechauns.
I have not "believed in the god of the Bible for many years, but it is not because of any ACoG. All I did was read the Bible, all of it, with out following along with some religious booklet or other publication. If you still have a desire to love, obey and believe in the god of the Bible after reading the scriptures, you must turn your brain off when reading. That angry, jealous, violent, vindictive god is not for me. Possibly he served some purpose (controlling the population through fear?)for ancient Israel, but he no longer has relevance in our world.
Yet I still have not adopted the term atheist to describe myself. I just cannot believe that matter, life and consciousness are accidental, no matter how much time is involved. It seems probable to me that some type of consciousness greater than my own is behind life and the universe. Maybe I am being superstitious, but that is my current feeling...not yet a firm belief. Strong beliefs are dangerous because they prevent learning.
Possibly I am a coward, but I still think I am agnostic (not atheist). I just don't know. As far as an afterlife is concerned, it would be nice, but my faith is non-existent in that department. I feel fantastic that I have escaped Armstrongism and Christianity, but to say the universe is just a big accident is too much for me to accept right now. Like religion, I believe that science is a bit too arrogant with its current conclusions, and by the way scientists do not all agree on key issues. It is always interesting to explore and read the opinions of others (some, not all).
God gives himself a bad name
You may want to do a bit more research, 2:55. Billionaires Phillip Anschutz, Warren Buffett, Elon Musk, Bill Gates, Mark Zuckerberg, Vinod Khosla, John Doerr, Tom Steyer, Jack Ma, George Soros, Jeff Bezos, and Richard Branson are all raking in the bucks from investment in green technology. Back in the 1990s, what you say was correct. Today? Whole different situation.
While on this topic, Republicans have insisted that when you lower taxes, and shrink government, the economy grows like St. Augustine grass fed on ammonium sulphate. To a certain extent, I agree. Imagine my surprise that a Republican president would raise our taxes (tariffs are in reality taxes) and cause other nations to respond by raising their taxes (tariffs) on us! This cannot end well. The oil companies saw fit to raise gasoline prices to $4-5.00 per gallon in 2008, and it immeasurably exacerbated the recession caused by the subprime lending fiasco which was just emerging at that time. We can’t secede from the global community, the sustenance of our planet, and the prevention of WW-III without there being severe consequences! Don’t believe me? All you’ve got to do is watch!
BB
Yeah. I’ve still got the music, the beard, and the faded jeans. There are many deeply spiritual and philosophical lessons that I’ve learned as an outlaw, too. God can teach you a lot of lessons on midnight full moon Harley rides! Who knew that it would be the rebel outlaws who outlasted and survived everyone? I still have dreams that after I travel through eternity and time and space, I suddenly land before a stage on which Led Zep is churning into “Rock n Roll”!
BB
God does not give himself a bad name. The false Gods that people made up give those people a bad name.
GTA attacked you for having a beard? Even Jesus had a beard. Or was yours a pony-tail beard?
Like everything else, the mainstream churches have been infiltrated by the hard radical left.
Odin and other pagan gods are having a comeback. Some of it seems to be for cultural reasons, as a unifying cultural force for those who leave Christianity, yet still believe in God. They find their ancient traditions have meaning, even if they don't take all the traditional beliefs literally. At least Odin is a European God, not a foreign one like Jesus. Jesus was not a European, unless you believe the Jewish accusation that his father was a Roman soldier, in which case he was half European.
Who needs green energy? There is enough coal to fuel all the world's energy needs for 2,000 years, enough uranium for 1,000 years, and enough thorium for 2,000 years. All of these forms of energy can be made extremely clean and extremely safe with modern technology. The USA has more natural gas than there is oil in Saudi Arabia. We could and should fuel cars with natural gas. Why don't we? Because then there would be no excuse for the wars in the middle east, all of which are manufactured to expand Israel's power in the region.
Gerald, the god of the bible is not always angry and vindictive.
6.49 AM
Well said. You are a man after my own heart. We'll have a beer together in the kingdom some day.
Dennis,
You constantly bring up Hebrew 11.1 with your 'faith is believing without proof' interpretation. That is not even the King James translation. So why not be honest and have your own Dennis Diehl apostate translation of the bible, and quote from that.
For that matter, why not go all the way and have your own church. You can be the Pastor General of the Apostate Church of God with your gospel of apostasy.
I guess there are good reasons for all the anonymous posters on here and I did it too for a while until I got savvy enough to know how to use my name. I never have been ashamed to identify myself, but I have nothing to lose unless some fanatic gets so incensed that they look me up to put a bullet in me. I make no secret of my beliefs either here or on Facebook. It took me decades to get to where I am. I'm not ashamed of my opinions and too ornery to tolerate being in any way silenced.
Anonymous said...
"Science" dogma is as bad as religious dogma.
Ignorance on display
That’s pure ignorance, Jethro (6/29, 7:16 PM).
"Who needs green energy? There is enough coal to fuel all the world's energy needs for 2,000 years, enough uranium for 1,000 years, and enough thorium for 2,000 years. All of these forms of energy can be made extremely clean and extremely safe with modern technology. The USA has more natural gas than there is oil in Saudi Arabia. We could and should fuel cars with natural gas. Why don't we? Because then there would be no excuse for the wars in the middle east, all of which are manufactured to expand Israel's power in the region."
Hello 7:16
If we start breeding again like the early 1900 there will be enough horses to replace cars......My point............. The study of human behavior which is called "economics" has found that humans tend to look for "better and cheaper".
Like horses in the 1913's, coal will become, as we call it in the business. "a stranded asset". That means there is plenty around but no one wants to buy because of "cheaper and better."
Coal is not an asset class I would invest in long term. Even Arab pumps to pump up oil are already fueled by solar since it is cheaper to use solar than the gas that is a by product of oil production. And they are the experts on this.
As a matter of fact, in time oil will become a "stranded asset", although it may take some 30 years and of course will not disappear entirely, like coal for barbeque purpose.
My guess is that religion will become "a stranded asset". At least on star strek (the world tomorrow society) I dont see religion mentioned a lot. What I mean is, "creative thinking" may be around in the future, but for deeper questions you will access artificial intelligence, who knows your desires and actions before you do and for "miracles" you will have robots perform a "dna operation" on your cells. Who knows?
nck
Allen
Respectfully, it's not hard to be brave when you are a old man who has lived his life. Who puts bullets into atheists these days? It's the religious folk in the west who are on the run.
Well, at the very least, nck, Armtrongism is rapidly becoming a stranded asset.
Our friend at 7:16 simply lacks spatial intelligence. We’ll let him or her Google that one and look it up. He or she is not alone. It’s a common problem, also shared by ACOg “leaders” such as Mark Armstrong (especially), and Gerald Flurry, Dave Pack, Ron Weinland, and wannabees James Malm, and Bob Thiel. I don’t know that even HWA was especially gifted with spatial intelligence, although a smattering of it may well have been what separated him and his work from his heirs and imitators.
BB
Anon 7:17 PM, You are correct, he was not always pissed off, he was created in the minds of those who wrote the scriptures. His moods reflected their wildly changing moods. He was not real, and therefore I am not upset with him, anymore than I could be upset with Darth Vader or Superman.
If you want to believe in and defend this figment of the imagination, by all means, have at it. It's your life. Mine is so much simpler since I removed him from my package of beliefs.
A real God would have provided a much more easily understood instruction book than the confusion presented in the Bible. As I previously stated, there may be something powerful out there that brought the universe and life into existence, but this manufactured god should be ignored. Worship at your own risk.
re BB: 9:50
I believe Armstrongism became a stranded asset on the 16th of january 1986.
A stranded asset is an asset that is around in full power but lost its economic value with the snap of a finger. Armstrongism was dead when HWA died not when Tkach implemented the changes.
I guess the full realization of that truth was the reason why the "Rader puppet Tkach team" pulled the plug and tried to diversify to mainstream market share. Too little too late. That proces should have been started much earlier through Armstrong through the STP.
Altough I did like the idea of connecting all COG's. That would have been a 600.000 strong church with Armstrong media power. But he,y WCG ego made that impossible.
Today Armstrongism has descended into oblivion and is powerless.
Unless of course one is of the opinion that we are on perfect scedule regarding the scenario of "one world government, eternal bliss through bayer monsanto and space travel guided by all knowing ai, merging google and facebook is around the corner."
Thank you for that little gesture of separating armstrong from his even more ridiculous imitators. I will therefore apologize for my little jab at christianity in general.
However I try to heed the late Gavin's last admonishment to me that is that I should try to master the art of staying on topic. Therefore I had to insert that jab on star trek world and christianity.
nck
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