Saturday, June 30, 2018

How Can You Trust Today's Self Appointed COG Prophets?

Church of God News had the following post about Norbert Link and his prophetic predictions of how the world is rapidly coming to an end.  This is nothing new to anyone who has even the slightest contact with the Herbert Armstrong's Churches of God movement.  One self-appointed prophet after another has come out with sure predictions that have failed in the most epic fashion.  None of them seems to ever remember that scripture condemns every single one of them when just ONE of their prophecies fail. Yet, they go on day in and day out uttering some of the most absurd, baseless and idiotic predictions imaginable.  The seven biggest liars in the Church of God today are Flurry, Pack, Malm, Thiel, Weston, Link and Weinland.  They get all hot and bothered with silly end time predictions and scenarios and totally ignore anything about Jesus Christ.

The question is, how can you trust Link's predictions or ANY of the others when it is based upon the failed prophecies of Herbert Armstrong, who's failures go back as far as 1935? When the very founder of the church you are a part of told one whopper after another, each epically failing, how can we trust any of these men today? Other than Weston, every single one of these men appointed themselves as prophets and church leaders. Weston inherited his mantle, the rest placed it selfishly upon themselves.

COG News posted:
Church of the Eternal God
In Standing Watch, 28 June 2018, Norbert Link says that the actions of Donald Trump and the reactions of European leaders are leading to war between the European Union and the USA – not just a trade war, but a real war, the great tribulation.
He offers a free booklet, The Great Tribulation and The Day of The Lord, which states on p. 16: “Incredible as it may seem, the United States and Great Britain, as well as other Commonwealth nations, will be overthrown and enslaved by their former ally and friend—the United States of Europe, led by the modern Assyrians.”
(This scenario – the modern Assyrians being Germany – was part of the end-time prophecies of Herbert Armstrong, to which a number of ex-WCG churches hold fast.) p.55: “… another “Elijah” must come to prepare this world for the second coming of Christ. God has given this role of an end-time Elijah to His end-time Church. There should be no doubt that Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong, who is considered by many as an apostle and who served as Pastor General of the Church of God until his death in 1986, began to fulfill this role.” 
In the Plain Truth magazine, June/July 1934, Mr. Armstrong set out the timeline of end-time events in his article What is Going to Happen: 
“These prophecies above considered, then, indicate that we may expect the present world-wide depression, time of trouble and fear of war to CONTINUE until the year 1936! This in spite of the NRA or any man-devised remedies for the present trouble! 
And at, or quickly after that time, we may expect to see the heavenly signs of the sun and moon becoming dark, the stars falling — and the heavens rolling back as a scroll, showing the SIGN of the coming of the Son of man IN HEAVEN. 
In the July 1935 issue he declared, in Mussolini Goes To WarEven as you read this, he is marching to ARMAGEDDON! HERE is the most astounding prophecy of the hour! Heretofore unexplained! Now being startlingly fulfilled! The Bible foretells every step Mussolini will take  
Mussolini shall establish his palace, as capital of the revived Roman empire, at JERUSALEM! 
The Plain Truth magazine was not printed in 1936 or 1937. Publication was re-started in 1938 without any reference to these failed prophecies.


Byker Bob said...

You are best off analyzing what you see around you, doing your own thinking, and making your own life decisions. ACOg prophets have a worse track record than National Enquirer psychics, yet they live quite affluently off members’ misery.

Herbert W. Armstrong claimed that keeping picked and chosen oracles and rituals from the Old Covenant caused God to favor him and his supporters with an exclusive understanding of end times prophecy, available nowhere else. The prophecies have been failing abysmally for decades, and for that to have happened, it also indicates that he was inaccurate in his mixing of the two covenants, and what is required of Christians today. Clearly, he lacked the keys, a fact of which his most stubborn remaining acolytes are incabable of grasping. If the allegations regarding incest with his daughter are true, then his ministry and understanding were cursed, almost from the beginning, yet nobody realized it until David Robinson stepped up to the plate.

By the way. In 2016, when the ACOg leaders were all going ga ga over a new president from their approved political party, and saying that God had apparently given “His” church more time to do “the work”, some of us right here were pointing out that this new president was implimenting many of the old 1930s policies which had deepened the Great Depression, and had contributed to World War II. I, of course, expect the president to be spanked by the mid-term elections, or corrected by his peers on Wall Street, but if we were looking at this as fire season, we’re in the red zone, so I wouldn’t be starting a campfire or throwing a lit cigarette out my window just now! For those in ACOgs with prophets, fear not! This is not Armageddon or the tribulation. Today is the 9th of Tamuz, 5778.


Yes and No to HWA said...

Ron Dart use to like using this Scripture regarding prophecy:

Isa 41:22 Let them bring them forth, and show us what shall happen: let them show the former things, what they be, that we may consider them, and know the latter end of them; or declare us things for to come.

Looking at the former things 1929 to 1939 and projecting them today for a possible scenario for the start of WW3:

The Dow Jones peaked on September 3, 1929 after a melt-up gain of 83% from July 2, 1928. The Dow in this cycle has yet to have a melt-up stage.

Say the Dow peaks next year then 2019 wouldl be the next 1929.

Towards the end of the Hoover recession of the Great Depression Adolph Hitler game to power in 1933 and then began the major build up that led to the invasion of Poland September 1, 1929 - the start of WW3.

From the stockmarket peak to the start of WW2 was two day short of ten years.

Using this as a guide 2029 would be the start of WW3 which implies that Christ will return, using this scenario, in the 2030s.

Therefore, the former things suggest that WW3 and the return of Christ, to finish the last half of his prophetic week, before returning to heaven, is quite some time away off.

The coming great depression and its aftermath will lead to the breakup of America - the hatred between the left and the right leading to the second civil war? - the United Kingdom, Europe and most likely China.

History suggests that the coming depression will be the beginning of sorrows, but the end is not yet.

Perhaps HWA was some 90 or more years too early.

"Every modern transition of world power supremacy has involved an ally or former colony of the previous hegemonic power. Holland was a breakaway possession of Spain. England was an ally of the Netherlands, and from 1689 trough 1702 both states shared the same sovereign, the Dutch-born William III. The United States was a former colony and intimate ally of Britain..." (James Dale Davidson & William Rees-Mogg, The Great Reckoning, p.137).

United Provinces of the Netherlands (Protestant) then United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland (Protestant) now United States of America (Protestant) next United States of Europe (Catholic, at least to the start of the Tribulation).

"History is coming full circle. After breaking away from the British Empire, the United States came together as a unitary federation, emerged as a leading nation, and eventually eclipsed Europe's Great Powers. It is now Europe's turn to ascend and break away from an America that refuses to surrender its privileges of primacy. Europe will inevitably rise up as America's principal competitor. Should Washington and Brussels begin to recognize the dangers of the growing gulf between them, they may be able to contain their budding rivalry. Should they fail, however, to prepare for life after Pax Americana, they will ensure that the coming clash of civilizations will be not between the West and the rest but within a West divided against itself... and America remains largely oblivious" (Charles A. Kupchan, The End of the West, The Atlantic Monthly, November 2002, p.42-44).

"If this is true [that history repeats/rhymes] then can we be sure that history has written finis to what was perhaps the grandest design ever conceived by man: the Holy Roman Empire? "(George Bailey, Germans: Biography of an Obsession, (1972), p.360).

James said...

Anonymous Yes and No to HWA -June 30, 2018 at 9:20 PM

Your looking for cycles in your predictions. One must have all empirical evidence from the beginning of mans history to make such predictions. This includes economic cycles, war cycles, solar minimum cycles, etc, Without this evidence one is just pissing in the wind.

So look at Europe as a whole. Who is the majority that are of fighting age? Emigrants. Are you saying these people will fight for the EU? No, they would not.

If anything, the USA will get its feet right into a middle east war and lose it. America's hegemonic plans will fail just as other nations have failed in their attempt to control the world. The war cycle (science) shows this will occur sometime in the 20's. This is my opinion and is not based on a bible prediction.

China will replace the USA as the economic giant in the world. Again, this is my opinion and not a so called bible prediction. It is based on cycles.

Historically, all nations cease to exist at some point, and from those ruins a new nation, or set of nations, arise from the ashes. By the time this comes to pass for the USA the EU will have ceased to exist. The EU is structurally defective (monetary policies) and cannot continue much longer. It will fail and break apart. Expect war between them.

Keep in mind that America cannot be invaded by any force in the world. There is a gun behind every blade of grass. Any nation who would be foolish enough to try would see their fleet heading to the USA nuked. That is a fact and not a bible prediction. The acog crowd cannot see this because HWA has blinded them.

HWA made his prophecies and the acog community still expects them to happen. The many generations he spoke to are dead. So much for the warning. It was made to generations that never saw one prediction come true. They all died waiting for the day of the lord. Those generations passed.

So now days as Herbie rots in the grave, this current generation is telling us that his predictions are going to come true. "Just wait and see" they tell us. And when this current generation dies out, never seeing the destruction of the USA by the EU, will the children of these foolish people embrace the teaching's of HWA? Most likely, but in lesser numbers.

Conclusion: The acog'ers are hopelessly in love with Herbert Armstrong and his prophecies. They will only pay attention to what their itching ears want to hear. No matter what you point out to them, they see the world through Herbert Armstrong's eyes. They are truly deceived.

Anonymous said...

ACOG people should read the book "What The World Rejected: Hitler's Peace Offers 1933-1940" which refutes ACOG nonsense by showing that Hitler repeatedly offered to completely disarm Germany if the countries around him would also disarm.

Anonymous said...

COGs think a right wing EU is rising. Wrong.

The EU leadership in Brussels is hard-left not hard-right. The hard-right are adamantly nationalist and opposed to the EU and globalism. If the hard-right wins out the EU will die and nation states will reassert themselves. For example, consider the policies of Marine Le-Pen of France and the new government in Italy.

It was always the commies that wanted globalism. Remember the slogan: "Workers of the WORLD unite." They want a one-world government. That's why the left in America is anti-borders, etc. There is no faster way to destroy America than to open the borders and they know it. "Collapse the system" is their battle cry. That's how the brought communism to Russia in 1917.

Anonymous said...

6.45 AM
Nazi Guy strikes again, Again (and again), you are on the wrong blog.

James said...

Anon, July 1, 2018 at 6:53 AM

Correct. Well said!

nck said...


On occasion I frequent your posts to have an anti-theses versus thesis and perhaps synthesis or not.

At this stage the government leaders of the respective EU nations are still the main decision makers. They are voted in or out. True, The Commission initiates many proposals toward further Union.

The new Italian government has quickly assessed that they can NEVER leave the EU without proposing to their electorate that for the next 40 years they must remain in their country and not travel since they have amassed personal debts that will quadruple against the Euro when the Lira is re introduced.

Now what is really happening my friend. THE right proposes to keep immigrants out.

So the proposals of the right are directly leading toward a further strengthening of "fortress Europe" with common and united borders for the first time in history. And there is much more. For instance the banking sector is ready to consolidate to have a couple of "European banks" remaining. This will be the FRAME of the body whilst the backbone of the body will ultimately consist of "burden sharing" through the ECB financial instruments. Another crisis will trigger that. Each crisis takes the EU one step futher toward Unification packaged in either leftist attacks on the banking system or right wing attacks on "immigrants" crossing the mediterenaan. It doesn't matter right or left. The strategic goal will be implementend regardless.

I find it quite amusing how HWA insisted in his speech toward the Greek elites that economic shocks would bring Europe together. Unfortunately that message got lost amongs his ramblings about the Orthodox Church Uniting with the Catholic and the Catholics in control "yawn, yawn, yawn." Someone should have said at the time": It's the economy stupid.

Communism in the Soviet Union had quite some rigid borders within the system. But I agree. "Workers Unite" has been the internationalist slogan since WWI. I mean why should German working class fight british working class in a system controlled by the few. Quite a rational argument and many things have changed for the good after the masses had a little more to say on who or what to fight.


Yes and No to HWA said...

James writes:

“One must have all empirical evidence from the beginning of mans history to make such predictions. This includes economic cycles, war cycles, solar minimum cycles... China will replace the USA as the economic giant in the world...”

Sounds like you read Martin Armstrong - the person who won’t answer a question directly - but not Herbert Armstrong.

I disagree that you need all empirical evidence - modern hegemonic history provides sufficient data to make valid predictions. There are some good books such as Long Cycles, Prosperity and War in the Modern Age (Joshua S. Goldstein) and The Rise and Fall of the Great Powers, Economic Change and Military Conflict from 1500 to 2000 (Paul Kennedy) to utilize in making a model to view the world. My model is entitled The Anglo-American Hegemonic Cycle - Cycles of War and Prosperity which provides a base for a secular argument why Europe will be the next hegemonic power - at least for a short while. While amateurish compared to the ECM I suggest that there is something to it not to dismiss it outright.

In the late 1980s it was another Asian nation, Japan that was going to be number 1 - didn’t happen. If you believe that a nation with endemic corruption and no respect for the rule of law will be the economic giant to replace America what can I say. History suggest that CCP and China will go the way of the Qing dynasty and China, when perhaps the greatest bubble economy in history goes bust.

James writes:

“Keep in mind that America cannot be invaded by any force in the world.”

I would suggest that if Belshazzar was alive today you would be good friends - as Enoch Powell observed “History is littered with wars which everybody knew would never happen”. America will make itself vulnerable when it tears itself apart in the Second Civil War; with European beachheads in Quebec and south of the American-Mexico border?

“In the meantime nature intervened, as it usually does when men construct houses of straw, or paper. Bad weather in 1835 created a crop failure in many parts of America ... By ... March 1837 ... America was in the early stages of its biggest financial crisis to date. By the end of May 1837 every bank in the country had suspended payment specie. Far from getting back to ‘sound money,’ Jackson had merely paralysed the system completely” (Paul Johnson, A History of the American People, pp.295-96).

I would suggest your analysis is too focused on the world and its assumption as it is now; not what it will look like in five or more years as the world struggles to emerges from the next Great Depression.

In regards to HWA, I don’t throw the baby out with the bath water; the bath water for me is most of HWA doctrines; for instance I believe that Christ and the Saints will be in heaven during the Millennium and that the Crucifixion was on a Friday and the Resurrection was on a Sunday - just as the physical harvest began on the first of the sabbaton, so did the spiritual harvest.

“In New York, a religious revival movement thrived in response to the apparent endlessness of the depression [beginning 1873]. The evangelist Dwight L. Moody together with the gospel singer Ira Sankey filled huge halls in the city, where attendance was noticeably drawn from the Wall Street and Fifth Avenue crowd, driven perhaps by a desire to atone for their sins, which had brought the nation to its parlous state” (Edward Chancellor, Devil Take The Hindmost, (New York, Penguin Putnam, 2000).

But I believe that Europe will be the next great power and just like Britain and America it will ascend to greatness on religious revival. I would suggest that there is a rough correlation that Britain and America were at there peaks [1842-1873 and 1949-1973 respectively] relative to the rest of the world when Church attendance was at its highest.

James said...

Yes and No to HWA,

You wrote: "I would suggest your analysis is too focused on the world and its assumption as it is now"

When you investigate cycles you take in all the available world history in to account. How is that focusing on current events only?

The more information leads to informed decisions.

Putting economics aside, if you take into account all of HWA's prophecies and his failure rate, there is a gross loss of confidence in his model. Hence a piss poor prophet is like most financial analysts these days. They don't know what their doing.

"Sounds like you read Martin Armstrong - the person who won’t answer a question directly"
The hell he won't. Ever been to any of his conferences? The man doesn't make predictions. He sees what spits out of the computer in various models. Pretty impressive program for a man who called the very day of the stock market crash in 1987, months ahead of the event.

As to the EU, we will see who called this right.

Yes and No to HWA said...


We can to and fro and get nowhere, but your comment is apropos:

As to the EU, we will see who called this right.

Better, as to Europe, we will see who called this right. I’ll put my money on Jesus Christ not Socrates.

nck said...

Regarding the EU if find the opinions of American Fundamentalists or Tech driven analysts like James (martin armstrong cycles) of interest.

I base my opinions on long term policy papers, legal structural frameworks and short term politics. As I said in 1990 when my wcg friend had just received pcg mailings: "The Flurry scenario is not likely to take place within 10 years and if he is right and Europe does not immediately start a military program it is not likely to start within 20 years." So far I was right."

In your musings I found a nugget regarding China:

"In the late 1980s it was another Asian nation, Japan that was going to be number 1 - didn’t happen. If you believe that a nation with endemic corruption and no respect for the rule of law will be the economic giant to replace America what can I say. History suggest that CCP and China will go the way of the Qing dynasty and China, when perhaps the greatest bubble economy in history goes bust."

I think China is an entirely different ball game from Japan.

-China has just allowed families to have more children. (While Japanese economy is down because of the elderly surplus.)
-China has a thousand year plan
-The Belt initiative circumvents the entire Eurasian landmass
-Chinese have a vast surplus of workers willing to work low wages while implementing massive robotising of factories.
-Many nuclear power plants are built while experimenting green energy on massive scale. While Japan had to import oil from the middle east. (remember HWA GII fly path with the Japanese sons to Dubai, South Africa and South America?)
etc etc etc etc

I found HWA's magazines of massive interest since he was working with the blueprints of "the world tomorrow" as foresseen by US foreign policy goals and the rockefeller papers. so far the scenario is exactly on schedule so it seems. Including the British stabilizers withdrawing from the EU EXACTLY as predicted or perhaps planned.