Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
Dave Pack: Challenge My Doctrine...You Challenge Jesus Christ!
27 comments:
Anonymous
said...
How many people attend services at this church? Has Dave had any recent surgery? Does he have a limo and chauffeur? Is he looking for a private jet or ever mentioned it? What will happen to the property when he dies? Is the congregation growing or stagnant?
Great! Following the logic of his presentation, David Christ now admits that he left God when he chose to disagree with the teachings of his church leader Joseph Tkach. If he had admitted this 25 years ago, he could have spared himself and his followers a lot of grief.
"Dee" you got right to the core of what is and what will be the greatest fight that a Christian will have with these audio clips. Men orchestrating themselves as idols wielding strong arm government with threats and accusations of betrayal and heresy.
Mr. Pack makes a colossal error in trying to enforce the "ridged ridged doctrine". It never was about proving "WHERE" the true church is. He should have known better to proclaim this seeing his initial claim to fame was 30 reasons, 60 reasons and 90 reasons to follow the truth.
That Mr. Pack dumped the lie of once you proved "WHERE" the true church is you cannot challenge doctrine on his unsuspecting membership while he was in the middle of proclaiming himself "the man clothed in linen" and "the root of Jesse" and "Elijah" and "That Prophet" during his unveiling of the new understanding of the gospel is nothing short of forced idol worship.
Mr. Pack puts himself right in the middle of the "gospel" with his self given biblical titles and then threatens his membership with punishment if they don't obey that "gospel". So the member is told to roll with it until they understand and are warned that challenging "his" doctrine is challenging Jesus Christ.
So Mr. Pack wants his membership to have the same mind (1 COR. 1:10) that he has and he wants them them to be perfectly joined unto him and he wants them to speak the same things that he speaks. Which is an awfully scary thought for anyone to contemplate let alone for the deceived member who is forced into this type of obedience.
Dee Bunker is in a colossal fight if his wife is still trapped in the RCG. For his wife is under the control of a maniac false christ who has put his membership into the "ridged ridged" covenant. That is not a covenant of blood, it is a covenant of believing and obeying all the words of a man and believing that "WHERE" that man is located is the same place where the true Jesus Christ is located.
Is he looking for a private jet or ever mentioned it?
I recall is the intro to an RCG video - Dave is walking away from an idle private jet with his right hand outstretched. No mention of him having a jet or meeting any "dignitary".
This same rhetoric is going on in most all the other groups with their "so called" leaders. The little splinter I left in Eugene, Oregon uses a "line of succession" excuse to justify their leader as the one left holding the mantle. Sounds a little Catholic does it not? I have in writing that if you disagree with him, you disagree with God. His other hirelings support him in that, therefore they agree with his doctrine.
The longer I look at these men, I have to truly say they fall right into the category of being deceived and deceiving. I mean if Satan were deceiving you, and there was no one there to tell you otherwise short of the living God ringing your neck, your arrogance would dominate (because who recognizes their arrogance), and you would believe you are the king.
Until people start thinking for themselves (Acts 17:11), they will continue as they are.
Dave's position is the same that HWA held. The only difference is that Dave is upfront about the matter, while it was under the table in Herbs day. I recall in one of his TV programs not long before his death, Rod Meridith strongly implied that church government had the right to directly control peoples minds. Implying a falsehood is a favorite form of deception in the ACOGs.
Nowhere in the bible, from cover to cover, has God ever made a decision for another person. He can't since it's MURDER.
Rod Meridith strongly implied that church government had the right to directly control peoples minds.
Not true. Rod believed that HE had the right to directly control people's minds. When Global's church government tried to discipline Rod, he rebelled, and he did his best to ruin the men who had dared to discipline him.
Actually in numerous places in the bible, god told people to do something and if not, they would die, be punished, etc. That's making decisions for others, essentially.
It is so sad that some sincere but naive people who wanted to support God's one true representative on planet earth instead ended up supporting one of Satan's representatives, Dave Pack. What a difference!
By listening to Dave Pack, you can hear how a demon reasons and argues and what it sounds like.
7.31 AM I don't agree. All governments punish those who do not obey their laws. That is not the same as taking direct control of some ones mind. Christ compared Himself to a nobleman going to a far country in the parsable of the talents . This honours mans nature as a sovereign being. This is in contrast to ACOGs meddling ministers who follow church members like dogs. 'Dog ministers' is not Gods social system.
God does is effect control one's mind through a kind of biblical brainwashing. Of course, the god of the bible does not actually exist, so he is not actually controlling them. But religious/biblical lunacy does control people's lives.
By listening to Dave Pack, you can hear how a demon reasons and argues and what it sounds like.
The insidious mind trying to use glorified reasoning to establish a point or to solidify a doctrine is something Dave Pack has been a master of.
By piling on his membership a five layer indictment against even questioning anything he has said or "established", he effectively quashes those in his membership that have been trained in fearfulness.
Is there any truth to his claim that disagreeing or challenging him is thwarting Gods will or is it defeating God's government or will it cause mass chaos and will it fracture the church and lastly will it keep the church from doing God's work?
If any of the 2000 members of the RCG would ask themselves, is it God's will that one man would make himself the centerpiece of the gospel and future prophecy? Was it God's inspiration that this man would claim at the 2018 Feast of Tabernacles that he himself as Elijah That Prophet had restored all things and he himself had fulfilled Matt. 24:14 by preaching the gospel as a witness to the world for the last two and half years and he himself had correctly identified the Man of Sin as being the resurrected Judas Iscariot acting as the Baal god? Was it God's will that an announcement should be made to the church at the same Feast that the events leading to Jesus Christ's return would start two weeks after that Feast with a Spring time appearance of the Son of Man happening then and all of this required the member to clean out their bank accounts?
So then who is thwarting God'e will? Who is challenging God and trying to defeat his government? Who is fracturing the minds of the church members? Who is creating chaos before God with false prophecies? And who is keeping the church member from doing the work of focusing on their savior?
If truth and damnable heresies are the standards according to Mr. Pack, which one has he earned by acts or doctrinal discourse? And more importantly, what spirit is guiding that reasoning and what is it's standard?
Wouldn’t it be nice if we could find a group hypnotist to work with the RCG so that anytime any of the members saw or thought about Dave Pack, they felt like taking a crap? And, the only solution was to avoid him, and purge their memories of him and his teachings?
It’d be but a small step in the direction of resolving the Armstrong problem.
It helps,6:43, if you identify specific symptoms or aspects and work on them. I, as an example, knew no middle ground in dealing with authority figures, which is something which all business people must do. I’d run hot or cold, either acceding, or making them eat crap. Hypnosis helped me in acting in adult mode rather than stuck in child, and assisted me in the skills and values of negotiation.
Right on, 1-Ex! As a companion saying, I've always said that there are two powers: 1) The power of "positive" thinking, and 2) The power of "suppository" thinking!
Unfortunately, we all learned the power of suppository thinking in Armstrongism. And, it sure takes years to get our heads out of the old navel observatory!
If hypnotism would work on brainwashing, I would start with something simple, such as "You will feel physically sick at the thought of going to any COG splinter." I would then wait and see what happens.
Pack says earlier in his ministry with his own words, not to believe in false prophets, but to question what your told if it doesn't line up with established doctrine. But, then now, tells his group to believe him, or defy Christ. He is saying not to "prove all things", only to listen to him or else! Acts 17:11 has been removed by Pack, in essence. Then again, this is not the first Bible scripture that he has had removed from the Bible. He is just fine with removing Bible versus. Just like he mentioned during his "common" sermon that Proverbs 13:22 no longer applied to those in RCG living at the end of the age, very convenient when you want retirees pension money. The Bible is a puzzle for Pack to take apart, twist and turn, and put back together again in the order he sees fit. i.e., if your not a "Prophet" just twist and turn until you are, if you need the abundance God blessed someone else with, just a little twist, and so on it goes with those in RCG!
27 comments:
How many people attend services at this church? Has Dave had any recent surgery? Does he have a limo and chauffeur? Is he looking for a private jet or ever mentioned it? What will happen to the property when he dies? Is the congregation growing or stagnant?
I’m told that Jesus likes an occasional challenge!
BB
Great! Following the logic of his presentation, David Christ now admits that he left God when he chose to disagree with the teachings of his church leader Joseph Tkach. If he had admitted this 25 years ago, he could have spared himself and his followers a lot of grief.
Dave is a master in the art of projection
I guess David Pack never read Acts 17:11.
"Dee" you got right to the core of what is and what will be the greatest fight that a Christian will have with these audio clips. Men orchestrating themselves as idols wielding strong arm government with threats and accusations of betrayal and heresy.
Mr. Pack makes a colossal error in trying to enforce the "ridged ridged doctrine". It never was about proving "WHERE" the true church is. He should have known better to proclaim this seeing his initial claim to fame was 30 reasons, 60 reasons and 90 reasons to follow the truth.
That Mr. Pack dumped the lie of once you proved "WHERE" the true church is you cannot challenge doctrine on his unsuspecting membership while he was in the middle of proclaiming himself "the man clothed in linen" and "the root of Jesse" and "Elijah" and "That Prophet" during his unveiling of the new understanding of the gospel is nothing short of forced idol worship.
Mr. Pack puts himself right in the middle of the "gospel" with his self given biblical titles and then threatens his membership with punishment if they don't obey that "gospel". So the member is told to roll with it until they understand and are warned that challenging "his" doctrine is challenging Jesus Christ.
So Mr. Pack wants his membership to have the same mind (1 COR. 1:10) that he has and he wants them them to be perfectly joined unto him and he wants them to speak the same things that he speaks. Which is an awfully scary thought for anyone to contemplate let alone for the deceived member who is forced into this type of obedience.
Dee Bunker is in a colossal fight if his wife is still trapped in the RCG. For his wife is under the control of a maniac false christ who has put his membership into the "ridged ridged" covenant. That is not a covenant of blood, it is a covenant of believing and obeying all the words of a man and believing that "WHERE" that man is located is the same place where the true Jesus Christ is located.
Is he looking for a private jet or ever mentioned it?
I recall is the intro to an RCG video - Dave is walking away from an idle private jet with his right hand outstretched. No mention of him having a jet or meeting any "dignitary".
This same rhetoric is going on in most all the other groups with their "so called" leaders. The little splinter I left in Eugene, Oregon uses a "line of succession" excuse to justify their leader as the one left holding the mantle. Sounds a little Catholic does it not? I have in writing that if you disagree with him, you disagree with God. His other hirelings support him in that, therefore they agree with his doctrine.
The longer I look at these men, I have to truly say they fall right into the category of being deceived and deceiving. I mean if Satan were deceiving you, and there was no one there to tell you otherwise short of the living God ringing your neck, your arrogance would dominate (because who recognizes their arrogance), and you would believe you are the king.
Until people start thinking for themselves (Acts 17:11), they will continue as they are.
Dave's position is the same that HWA held. The only difference is that Dave is upfront about the matter, while it was under the table in Herbs day. I recall in one of his TV programs not long before his death, Rod Meridith strongly implied that church government had the right to directly control peoples minds. Implying a falsehood is a favorite form of deception in the ACOGs.
Nowhere in the bible, from cover to cover, has God ever made a decision for another person. He can't since it's MURDER.
This is Kim Jung Un
David Pack is a good man. Be instructed by his wise teachings and obey this great leader.
Rod Meridith strongly implied that church government had the right to directly control peoples minds.
Not true. Rod believed that HE had the right to directly control people's minds. When Global's church government tried to discipline Rod, he rebelled, and he did his best to ruin the men who had dared to discipline him.
Actually in numerous places in the bible, god told people to do something and if not, they would die, be punished, etc. That's making decisions for others, essentially.
Dave Pack's Method of Operation: Rant and rave, yell and spit, bait and switch, lie and steal, steal and steal, steal some more.
It is so sad that some sincere but naive people who wanted to support God's one true representative on planet earth instead ended up supporting one of Satan's representatives, Dave Pack. What a difference!
By listening to Dave Pack, you can hear how a demon reasons and argues and what it sounds like.
May the fleas of 1000 camels invade the armpits of David C. Pack!
Tonto, you cruel, cruel man. Have some compassion for those poor fleas!
7.31 AM
I don't agree. All governments punish those who do not obey their laws. That is not the same as taking direct control of some ones mind. Christ compared Himself to a nobleman going to a far country in the parsable of the talents . This honours mans nature as a sovereign being. This is in contrast to ACOGs meddling ministers who follow church members like dogs. 'Dog ministers' is not Gods social system.
Dennis, you look so different. Did you move back to South Carolina and go native?
God does is effect control one's mind through a kind of biblical brainwashing. Of course, the god of the bible does not actually exist, so he is not actually controlling them. But religious/biblical lunacy does control people's lives.
Anon. 10:26 AM said:
By listening to Dave Pack, you can hear how a demon reasons and argues and what it sounds like.
The insidious mind trying to use glorified reasoning to establish a point or to solidify a doctrine is something Dave Pack has been a master of.
By piling on his membership a five layer indictment against even questioning anything he has said or "established", he effectively quashes those in his membership that have been trained in fearfulness.
Is there any truth to his claim that disagreeing or challenging him is thwarting Gods will or is it defeating God's government or will it cause mass chaos and will it fracture the church and lastly will it keep the church from doing God's work?
If any of the 2000 members of the RCG would ask themselves, is it God's will that one man would make himself the centerpiece of the gospel and future prophecy? Was it God's inspiration that this man would claim at the 2018 Feast of Tabernacles that he himself as Elijah That Prophet had restored all things and he himself had fulfilled Matt. 24:14 by preaching the gospel as a witness to the world for the last two and half years and he himself had correctly identified the Man of Sin as being the resurrected Judas Iscariot acting as the Baal god? Was it God's will that an announcement should be made to the church at the same Feast that the events leading to Jesus Christ's return would start two weeks after that Feast with a Spring time appearance of the Son of Man happening then and all of this required the member to clean out their bank accounts?
So then who is thwarting God'e will? Who is challenging God and trying to defeat his government? Who is fracturing the minds of the church members? Who is creating chaos before God with false prophecies? And who is keeping the church member from doing the work of focusing on their savior?
If truth and damnable heresies are the standards according to Mr. Pack, which one has he earned by acts or doctrinal discourse? And more importantly, what spirit is guiding that reasoning and what is it's standard?
Wouldn’t it be nice if we could find a group hypnotist to work with the RCG so that anytime any of the members saw or thought about Dave Pack, they felt like taking a crap? And, the only solution was to avoid him, and purge their memories of him and his teachings?
It’d be but a small step in the direction of resolving the Armstrong problem.
BB
Can hypnotism counter the effects of brainwashing?
It helps,6:43, if you identify specific symptoms or aspects and work on them. I, as an example, knew no middle ground in dealing with authority figures, which is something which all business people must do. I’d run hot or cold, either acceding, or making them eat crap. Hypnosis helped me in acting in adult mode rather than stuck in child, and assisted me in the skills and values of negotiation.
BB
hey Biker Bob--wouldn't be a great idea if Spiritual enemas/suppositories could be made
available to counter D Pack's ranting/raving?
Right on, 1-Ex! As a companion saying, I've always said that there are two powers: 1) The power of "positive" thinking, and 2) The power of "suppository" thinking!
Unfortunately, we all learned the power of suppository thinking in Armstrongism. And, it sure takes years to get our heads out of the old navel observatory!
BB
If hypnotism would work on brainwashing, I would start with something simple, such as "You will feel physically sick at the thought of going to any COG splinter." I would then wait and see what happens.
Great work on this post.
Pack says earlier in his ministry with his own words, not to believe in false prophets, but to question what your told if it doesn't line up with established doctrine. But, then now, tells his group to believe him, or defy Christ. He is saying not to "prove all things", only to listen to him or else! Acts 17:11 has been removed by Pack, in essence. Then again, this is not the first Bible scripture that he has had removed from the Bible. He is just fine with removing Bible versus. Just like he mentioned during his "common" sermon that Proverbs 13:22 no longer applied to those in RCG living at the end of the age, very convenient when you want retirees pension money. The Bible is a puzzle for Pack to take apart, twist and turn, and put back together again in the order he sees fit. i.e., if your not a "Prophet" just twist and turn until you are, if you need the abundance God blessed someone else with, just a little twist, and so on it goes with those in RCG!
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