This truly has to be one of the most pathetic and appalling "marking" letters I have ever seen. The excuses Weston makes in it are childish, petty, and spiteful.
Weston claims that the leading men of the LCG and those on the church council are men of integrity who stood up against "rank apostasy" years ago and rightfully started 2 separate splinter churches. The thing about this is that these men are just like the men of United Church of God who while they were still employed by the Worldwide Church of God plotted and schemed in the background to start a new church in order to keep their income coming in, or waited quietly in WCG till Global and/or Living was established and THEN made the jump, ensuring their money was waiting for them.
Weston comes across like the pope bellowing in a fit of anger that he was challenged.
From an LCG source:
Weston marked Monson for giving that sermon on YouTube last week. So freakin predictable!
See below.
From: Living Church
Subject: Member Letter - August 19 2020
Reply-To: Living Church of God <media@lcg.org>
August 19, 2020
Dear Brethren,
God tells us that He hates the sowing of discord (Proverbs 6:14, 16-19). We are instructed in Romans 16:17, “Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them.” As most of you already know, Mr. Sheldon Monson has chosen to leave the Living Church of God ministry, walking contrary to the wisdom of the Council of Elders, which did their best in a loving manner to help him see he was on the wrong path.
The Council is made up of members who put their lives on the line—many times, literally. Some of them work and travel in some of the most dangerous parts of the earth, and they press on in faith, putting their health and lives at risk, to spread the Gospel of the Kingdom and serve the Body of Christ. The Council is filled with men who stood up in the face of rank apostasy when the Worldwide Church of God began to abandon the Sabbath and Holy Days; return to Sunday, Christmas, Easter, and Halloween; introduce old Catholic and Protestant ideas of the immortal soul, heaven as the reward of the saved, and an ever-burning hell; reject Christ’s commission to preach the true Gospel to the world; and so much more. There is no comparison to then and now. Does anyone seriously think men such as Mr. Richard Ames, Dr. Douglas Winnail, Messrs. Mario Hernandez, Rand Millich, Lambert Greer, Dan Hall, Rick Stafford, Peter Nathan, Rob Tyler, Dr. Jeffrey Fall, and many other long-time ministers, who stood up against the apostasy, would take the Church in that direction?
We do not deny that there are sometimes controversial issues, even about what measures Christ expects us to take during the Sabbath and Holy Days in showing love to our most vulnerable members in the light of this coronavirus (and even if for only a limited time of “present distress”). However, God gives clear instructions on how controversial issues are to be settled in the Church (Acts 15; Ephesians 4:11-16; Deuteronomy 17:8-13). And many scriptures warn us against self-will (Titus 1:7; Proverbs 3:5; 18:1-2; Judges 21:25).
There were other men, even during summer camp, who warned Mr. Monson that he was going down the wrong path. But, when he realized that not one of the Council members agreed with him, he chose to leave our ministry of the Living Church of God. Recent events indicate he has made the further decision to start his own work, effectively causing division within some families and congregations. We must therefore inform you that Mr. Sheldon Monson is, by his actions, causing division, and according to scripture, we are to take note of such individuals and avoid contact with them.
Sincerely, in Christ’s service,
Gerald E. Weston
43 comments:
Surprise, surprise, another splinter.
start his own work, effectively causing division within some families and congregations
As if this never happened before.
Living Church of Rod: Two-fold gospel message, marriage supper in heaven, falling away in the world, and other so-called “doctrinal upgrades” to put their own doctrinal stamp on their own private religion business.
Every splinter group seems to think that since the apostate Tkaches in 1995 threw out virtually everything that Herbert W. Armstrong had taught in the Worldwide Church of God, that their own splinter group's doctrinal changes are relatively small and okay by comparison, and not enough to cause people to leave their group.
The rubber stamp council is against the people of the church. All fo the m are counting the dollars of these gullible people.
“Recent events indicate he has made the further decision to start his own work, effectively causing division within some families and congregations.” -- GEW
Everyone wants to be in charge of their own little splinter group and have their own personal tithe stream coming in.
Everyone wants to feast off of the remains of what Herbert W. Armstrong had built up and what Joseph W. Tkach, Sr. destroyed at the advice of his son and his son's buddies.
Sheldon needed to be spanked and marked, thrown out and called the fool he is just for his uncooperative and reckless behaviors with the Covid-19 Pandemic. Ray Meyer, formerly of WCG and retired now from CGI promotes the same uber foolishness and brags about meeting in Washington State in his "Underground Church" where 200 or so congregate doing what they damn well please. These types have a strange way of applying the basic "And you shall love your neighbor as yourself." And this from an atheist!
Perhaps self love is an issue and thus the foolish disregard and reckless behaviors in the name of God and the "me, me, me" of their Constitutional Rights. I couldn't spend two minutes attending much less pastoring even if I believed it in a present day Church of God. They are full of foolish, ignorant and reckless sheep and ministry, as far as I can tell, and from my own limited interaction with them.
While not a fan of Gerald Weston, or the COG's obviously, at least they seem to realize the need to cooperate "for the present distress" which shall pass and not make complete fools, like Sheldon and others, do publicly and with with an arrogant and ignorant pride, out of themselves.
Always satisfying when some of these pastoral "nobody tells me what to do" and "Jesus is my vaccine" types come down with a fever, a cough, can't smell anything and have a hard time breathing..." Or get called out for infecting others without realizing it until it is too late. Karma is a bitch.
Concerning the other Sheldon type but in CGI retirement. Admittedly I have little use for COG pastors who jump around in the splinters to preserve retirement no matter how much or how many flips they have to do.
CGI Pastor (Ret) Ray Meyer notes: On or around June 7, 2020
"Underground Church!
People are hungry for fellowship and worship!
Today was the fourth meeting of the Underground Church in Vancouver, WA! Our first three meetings were in a 3-car garage with a couple of canopies. Today we met in a nice rented hall, in spite of edicts and ridiculous restrictions. If big-city mayors can kneel in solidarity with rioters and protesters demanding their rights (many without masks and not 6 feet apart), believers can kneel at the feet of Jesus demanding theirs! These people are not sheeple. They know their constitutional rights, and they know what true science says about the virus. I was asked to give the message last week. We've had people drive 100 miles to attend. Today, around 200 people were in attendance, including lots of kids! A very good
day indeed!"
I wrote him this back:
If what you are doing is against Washington State protocols and safe start program for reopening churches and business in a proper way during the current distress then shame on you and your church. If no one else here on the Forum will speak up to your constant rants, I will. Perhaps I am the only one who feels this way about your bragging and uncooperative attitude, but I doubt it.
Personally "Pastor" Ray I find your behavior reckless, arrogant and hardly putting the safety of others first in foremost in your "Grace" laden Community. Either you don't understand the concept of the germ transmission of disease or you don't care. I suspect both Your idea about being one of the few who understands the "real science" of Covid-19 would be hilarious if it wasn't so pathetic and wrapped in your "my rights" religion and self centered politics.
Few here speak up when you promote your foolish and arrogant views during a time when a little bit of cooperation goes a long way. Obviously your are incapable of it as well as your deeply Grace loving Church.
I picture you going out to eat after church and demanding to enter the restaurant with not only no mask to protect others from YOU, which is what a mask is for, but demanding to dine without your shirt or shoes either.
It's people like you and those you have conned into doing it all your way, who don't allow people like me to return to work with any confidence that my clients behavior, politics and attitude has not put me at risk from them and their foolishness.
You and your church, all of them, are a risk to the communities they live in and bragging about your underground Church services while most folk are just trying to do the right thing EVEN if a bit inconvenient or uncomfortable is foolish and reckless arrogance.
I hope this offends you. Pisses you off or ignites more self serving justifications for this kind of BS that we can take a look at until someone tells us both to go away. I doubt this will embarrass you. It probably will embolden you.
Treat for the worst and hope for the best Ray in times where we still have much to learn about where this all going. It's not ignore the current reality and demand no one treads on YOU.
Sorry Forum Folks. I'll walk out this door anytime for good if I have to listen to this political/religious/right wing BS in Jesus name. Enough of Ray is enough for me
You have irritated the hell out me with all this from day one here on the Forum. This arrogant posting got on my last nerve...obviously.
May the love of God and the Fellowship of the Holy Spirit have a long talk with you
What??? No statement about being "handed over to Satan for the destruction of the Flesh" ???
Is this a new "kinder/gentler" disfellowshipment?
I agree with Dennis about the absurdity of ignoring sound public health practices, and the obvious contradiction which this creates with the Scriptural injunction to love our neighbors as ourselves.
I would, however, like to make a point about the "marking" of individuals. There is NO instruction in Scripture to publicly "mark" anyone for anything! The original Greek implies that we take note of disruptive people - in other words, be aware of them and what they are doing. It is creative addition and extrapolation that has turned this into publicly branding someone from the pulpit or with an open letter.
God surely MARKED the ministry of the LCG long ago for their cruelty and dishonesty.
They are a wicked brood of vipers.
May He have mercy on their self righteous, unrepentant souls.
Weston couldn’t get 2500 views on YouTube if he was paying for them!
Oh how that must irk him.
I’m sure some of that number is repeat visits but I know groups of members who got together and watched it. So that would only count as 1 view but there were 8 COG adults watching it in the same living room.
Everyone loved it. He is a talented speaker. Much more alive than those boring, repetitive sermons we’re used to in LCG.
It will be fun to see tomorrow’s numbers.
I personally know quite a few of the people LCG has marked in the last several years and I can tell Monson that he is in good company. Every single person I know that LCG marked loves God And is kind. They are genuinely decent human beings. Getting to know their character has really made me wonder about LCG. How can they do what they do to good people and sleep at night?
So Gerald disfellowshipped Monson, a career minister, who knows nothing except preaching and then gets mad at him for literally doing the only thing he knows how to do???
What did Weston think was going to happen?
Was Sheldon going to start working the drive through at Taco Bell?
Weston is a moron. He should think past his emotions like a chess player instead of an angry 13 year old girl.
Tonto, I believe it might be implied that he is being turned over to Ventilator for the destruction of lung capacity?
LCG fires and disfellowships Sheldon Monson. People are outraged, sad, confused and even a little angry. So what does LCG do? Pump the brakes? Take some time to think and breathe? Nah!!! Let’s push the gas and go full tilt! Throw a lot gas on the fire. Over react. Take there ball and go home. “I’m never talking to you again! Ever! You’re a big meanie”
So childish and immature. Their impetuous, spoiled brat behavior will only make things worse.
Before, people who loved Mr. Monson could still kinda sorta be his friend but not now that he’s marked as an enemy of the church. Now they will be forced to shun him. And sadly 99% of people in LCG will blindly obey and comply because they are scared that of this can happen to Mr. Monson, this can happen to them (and they aren’t wrong).
Nothing real can be threatened.
It shows that Jerry Weston knows his operation is a house of cards built on BS.
He feels threatened by pretty much anything and everything because he actually knows how much crap LCG is full of.
We also have to take into account lessons perhaps learned in 2005 by LCG with the somewhat unnecessary death of their World Tomorrow presenter, Pastor John Ogwyn of MRSA. From what I recall, it was not taken seriously (a bug bite of some kind?) and then left to God for healing when systemic sepsis and MRSA took over with tragic outcomes.
John was beloved it seems and that kind of lesson isn't easily forgotten or lost on ministry and membership. Always treat for the worst and hope for the best. Never ignore it and hope it doesn't get worse no matter what one's faith issues are.
Ironically, while returning from the funeral another LCG minister, Glen Gilchrist, was repeatedly bitten by a spider and from this contracted the same infection that killed John Ogwyn. Thankfully he survived but has since died.
Dennis LCG also has a disproportionate number of cancer cases. It’s rampant.
I must say, after hearing many of the utter beat downs that Dave Pack gave those that he disfellowshipped, this was a very subdued termination oozing with self-restraint.
The question is why. Is the evidence so overwhelming and so convicting that Mr Weston need not bother with putting forth more details to firmly establish the case for no contact?
My hunch is that Weston knows he has much to lose by advancing this issue any further. Didn't it take two days for Weston and his Elders to come to a decision about Munson? Two days is a lot of time for someone who was "previously warned".
Obviously this issue is about who has the greater faith. Weston in this letter states that his men do, putting their lives on the line in the most dangerous parts of the world to preach the gospel and serve the body of Christ. Munson believes differently and believes his faith is superior in this present time of distress.
Luke 17 carries a heavy narrative in this dispute. If Munson can portray Charlotte as like the 9 lepers who having been cleansed went on their way forsaking glorifying God, while he and his new followers do it (glorifying God) maskless by assembling on Sabbaths and Holy Days and singing hymns, then he has a start. If Munson can further portray Charlotte as those that seek to save their lives which seems to define who is is taken or not at Christ's revealing then he can build a pretty good stronghold.
Weston has taken the prudent course for now. Will he up the "faith" in the future for a show of righteousness in this brewing "faith" war?
Numbers don't lie, and I imagine decreases in those numbers will dictate Weston's next moves.
Okay LCG HQ. We know you read these comments. Print this off and have Weston or someone give a sermon to address this post.
1. Please list the council members who have put their lives on the line. Please cite when and where they were in danger. Having church services in the inner cities of the U.S. does not count. Please share examples of putting your health and lives at risk to serve the Body or spread the Gospel.
2. Please list the council members who stepped out of the WCG at the same time of Dr. Meredith (or before) to take a stand against the apostasy. The only one I can think of is Jeff Fall, who stepped out with Meredith. All others seemed to have stayed in the apostasy for some period of time, including Weston.
3. Why didn't you publicly state you have "marked" or "disfellowshipped" Monson in your letter? Is it because you have no grounds? Would this put the LCG in a bad light with the youth, who seem to love him?
4. Who is saying the LCG Council is wanting to lead the Church back into apostasy? I've not heard Monson state that. I've not heard anyone make that statement, except Weston.
The only one who seems to be stirring the pot is Weston. So PLEASE, someone in Charlotte, address these questions. You're only making yourself look weak and petty. Address the doctrinal issues between yourself and Monson. Quit being vague in your letters and sermons. Please explain yourself. Stating that Monson didn't have the support of one single Council member does not prove anything other than he was willing to go it alone and take a stand for someone.
Weston didn't refer to Mat 18:15-18. If he didn't tell Munson's local LCG congregation about the matter and waited for their input before "marking" Munson then Weston didn't follow Biblical protocol.
Different names but all playing the same splinter game. No Church group leader seems able to negotiate differences of opinion on any matter. All mini Putins. Sadly seen it play out before.
It wouldn't surprise me if all these splinter wars came as a curse from God Himself. Confusion to confuse the once arrogant and proud.
How the mighty HAVE fallen.
LCG members are claiming that Sheldon Monson “wasn’t marked” because Weston used the NKJV version of the scripture, which says “note” instead of “Mark”. Such self-delusion. And why? Because they know this marking is BS. Monson isn’t preaching “a different gospel”, he was fired from his corporate job for not following orders. This entire letter read as a impotent power grab on Weston’s part, desperate to keep his limited membership and tithe stream.
Why do the two letters sent out to members conflict?
Letter 1 - “it is impossible as an ordained minister to hold different views of how to conduct services during this temporary time of stress and not cause division, no matter how sincerely held those views may be.“
“Today Dr. Douglas Winnail and I talked with Mr. Monson on the phone and he agreed that we have come to a parting of ways. We also spent more than two hours with Mr. Fritts and could not reach an agreement on these subjects.”
Letter 2 - “ Mr. Sheldon Monson has chosen to leave the Living Church of God ministry, walking contrary to the wisdom of the Council of Elders, which did their best in a loving manner to help him see he was on the wrong path.”
Letter 1 reads LCG fired Monson & Fritts. Letter 2 reads that Monson chose to leave (no mention of Fritts). The stories don’t seem to line up - or is it just me?
The orders Monson ignored put the LCG into a financial liability, hence the disfellowship.
It is all about the money, but then again, so is the LCG, PCG, UCG, etc.
Weston writes, "Mr. Sheldon Monson has chosen to leave the Living Church of God ministry, walking contrary to the wisdom of the Council of Elders, which did their best in a loving manner to help him see he was on the wrong path".
MY COMMENT- Can't stop laughing. The wisdom of the Council of Elders? Whoo Hoo! Who died and made them the wise ones? Herbert Armstrong? I don't think so otherwise Rod Meredith would have inherited the Church, and not Tkach.
And the Council did their best in a loving manner? What the hell does that mean? Of course, it never occurs to them that LCG might be on the wrong path.
Let's not forget attending a LCG service can get you killed. Where was the "wisdom of the Council" when Terry Ratzmann lost his mind and walked into his local Milwaukee LCG congregation and blew his brethren away?
Richard
The science on COViD mask wearing is debatable, and the lockdown "cure" is worse than the disease. For instance, in some American cities, the spike in suicides is greater than the deaths from the virus.
Still, as a elderly Christian with numbered days on this Earth, it's not worth my time and effort to directly fight the government on its foolish laws. My remaining time can be much better spent. So I agree with LCG on this one. Fighting these laws is not wise.
Dennis categorizing outsiders who are fighting the lockdown laws as me, me rights people, is typical ACOG culture. Rights are viewed as hedonistic nuisances that get in ministers way. Actually they are freedom of actions required for ones protection and advancement. It's a near law that the more casual people are about others rights, the more religious they are about their own rights being respected. It's the common double standard of one rule for me, another for thee.
Yep, correct it is all about the money. Anon Minister
Hello 10:09
Frankly if I were the leader of the world I would shut the entire world down in total lockdown for a full 4 weeks.
By then Covid and many more transmissable diseases would be gone totally.
I think you are making a mistake in not making a distinction between curing transmissable diseases and economics.
Diseases piss on people blabbering about "rights". Although I fully understand your concerns regarding economics and civil liberties.
Nck
Weston didn't refer to Mat 18:15-18. If he didn't tell Munson's local LCG congregation about the matter and waited for their input before "marking" Munson then Weston didn't follow Biblical protocol.
Of course Weston didn't follow Biblical protocol. This is the tradition set by Rod Meredith, who always taught that "tell it to the church" meant "tell it to the church leaders", even though "church" means "assembly". The assembly is supposed to decide the issue according to the Bible. Not so, according to Meredith and Weston.
LCG members are claiming that Sheldon Monson “wasn’t marked” because Weston used the NKJV version of the scripture, which says “note” instead of “Mark”. Such self-delusion. And why? Because they know this marking is BS. Monson isn’t preaching “a different gospel”, he was fired from his corporate job for not following orders. This entire letter read as a impotent power grab on Weston’s part, desperate to keep his limited membership and tithe stream.
Weston didn't even cite the scripture, lest he drive more people into Monson's camp. Rom 16:17 "Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them." Who is supposed to "note" or "mark"? The brethren! Not Weston. Not the leaders. Paul is urging the brethren to "note" or "mark"! Further, what doctrine is Monson contrary to? Weston is trying to hold on to power the Bible doesn't give him.
Monson initiated racial segregation at one of the teen camps one year. Wouldn’t cry too hard for him
Lol, imagine being so consumed with disdain for a church you used to belong to decades ago that you take the time to create a website dedicated to trash talking them constantly. Sounds like everyone here never really moved on.
Nck
Spoken like a city slicker lawyer. The Democrats are now talking about gun ownership being a emergency health emergency. They soooooo love people like yourself who view rights as mere blabber. The Americans who fought and died in WW1 and WW2 didn't think so. Since you missed it, lawyers, good ones at least, are all about defending clients rights.
2.55 PM
Victims of serious crime, "never move on" in the sense that the impact is permanent. That's the reality that God created. Soldiers who have experienced the horrors of war is another example. Even in old age, they find it too painful to discuss.
This isn't what the criminally minded want to hear, since their wet dream is that the passage of time gives them a free get-out-of-jail-card.
8:56
Why don't you inform yourself on the 1918 American flu, falsely labelled spanish flu.
It pissed on your so called soldiers rights and killed more people than the soldiers could.
I agree with you on the stupid commie democrats.
Nck
8:56
Btw. Since I apreciate you very much. Do you suppose 24 year old hwa wore a facemask when the american originated flu ripped through the world in 1918?
Nck
Monson couldn't endure the lukewarmness of 4 hours of blabbering counsel from faithless men so He apparently pulled the plug himself, leaving the LCG heads only to issue the formal announcement afterwards. (I couldn't endure it either when I darted out of Weston's SUV in haste when He continued to misrepresent me and belabour his point that there was something wrong with me, a heinous act of some elders who dare prejudge a man's motives) Weston wants to make it clear that Monson quit on his own (to put the sin on Monson) but he is unwilling to admit that he is backing the government rather than his fellow elder (which puts the sin on Weston).
To Aug 22, 2:55, you can't "move on" when you have so much sin in the church. We are bringing it on ourselves. Because of these many sins in the church, the way of truth is being evil spoken of. (2 Pet 2:2) Why do you think Christ created the internet at a time when the church was going deep into apostasy? The internet are the witnesses who will stand against you in court. You can't move on until you settle it in the court of heaven.
The same with sleepy member above, Aug 21, who says, "fighting these (government) laws is not wise.... I've got better things to do...". who sounds like a Laodicean who doesn't know what fighting the good fight means. So you want to let the state walk into your church (if you're still attending as a senior) and tell you not to assemble or sing on the Sabbath? If this fight puts you to sleep, you may not wake up again. Sleepy, old member, you do not know your church history or what the martyrs died for.
1:34pm There was not a single martyr who died for not wearing a mask. Being wise as a serpent is knowing which battles are worth fighting and a mask mandate isn't one of them no matter how big you fancy that molehill. Me thinks you're dreaming in your own slumber, assuming that you're a wise virgin when your oil is extremely low!
This has nothing to do with masks and social distancing. I truly believe God did this and allowed and split from LCG, the reasons are unknown to me except that they might be an apostasy in the near future like it says it on the Scripture. Every era of the Church has had an apostasy and Laodicea will be no different.
First, the "church" as defined by God's Word is a worldwide spiritual body made up of those whom God has called and who have His Holy Spirit, of which Jesus Christ is the Head. NOT these individual modern day corporate churches of God. God specified government for this worldwide church in order that it may accomplish the tasks He gave the church to do. The very leaders who accuse others of causing division are actually the ones causing division in the Biblically defined worldwide church by claiming they alone are the "true church" (a man made term not found anywhere in God's Word) and that other corporate churches of God are not. They then go on to try to prove their claim by claiming they are doing more of this or that than the others, (the Pharisee at the alter), rather than having humility, a fruit of the Spirit.
Second, Such leaders of modern day corporate churches of God that do this, also stress repeatedly their authority, rather than stressing their responsibility to the brethren, which is actually given much more weight in God's Word. No COG is perfect but there are some few churches of God that understand and do this.
Yes, you can tell them by their fruits if you know the truth.
GERALD WESTON, consider YOURSELF **MARKED**!!!!! You have NO AUTHORITY AT ALL OVER THE BRETHREN!!! They belong to JESUS CHRIST and He ** WILL** DELIVER them OUT of YOUR HAND!! The ONLY authority you have is the authority that they IGNORANTLY think you have!! My bible says: “You are all BRETHREN”!!!! (Matthew 23:8) “for ONE is your Master, the CHRIST, and ALL OF YOU ARE BRETHREN”!!! You have NO authority at all! Your Hierarchy *WIL* BE DESTROYED!!!! You can TAKE THAT TO THE BANK!!
P.S. God did NOT appoint the SO CALLED “Council Of Elders”, the DEAD CHURCH OF ROD did!!! WAKE UP!! 🤓
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