BANNED COMMENT: The above picture is by us snarky jerks here at Banned, not Lonnie. That being said, what you will read below in the comments by Bill Watson is the most appalling mess of lofty elitist points of view which are filled with a condescending demeanor that drips with self-righteousness. This is exactly why so many church members refuse to counsel with ministers in the church. Never once does Watson exemplify a Christlike attitude or even mention the guy. It's all about himself and his lofty words. No COG minister is preaching with as much gusto and truth than Watson is doing. CGI wonders why they loose members, this is why! The Jamaica CGI should count their blessings they are so far away from Watson! Ian Boyne would be appalled at what is happening!
Can’t Say He Didn’t Try!
As an outgrowth of the recent skirmish in CGI over what constitutes an appropriate Christian response to Covid-19, I decided to reach out to Bill Watson in an attempt to reach some kind of understanding or accommodation regarding some of his more extreme messaging of the last few years. And, while that effort was sincere and intended to be private, the response which I received has prompted me to share part of that correspondence with a wider audience. I do so to graphically demonstrate what appears to be a common reaction of Armstrong Church of God leaders to anyone who disagrees with them or has the audacity to challenge them on some point. In the interest of full disclosure, the quotations which follow are accurate and complete representations of everything in that correspondence; but I have reserved the right to keep private anything which specifically referenced or involved my own family.
My letter to Pastor Watson opened with this paragraph:
My letter to Pastor Watson opened with this paragraph:
“For several years now, I have chosen to confront your messaging from a distance. Recent events, however, have compelled me to reach out to you personally. I have a number of fond memories of my acquaintance with you and <wife> from thirty-five years ago, but I have watched with some dismay now for a number of years as you have drifted into what I consider to be some very extreme views. In particular, I'm referring to your very vocal stances on political and cultural issues. I remember a time when you preached the gospel and liked to discuss spiritual topics, but it seems that for these past ten years or so you have become increasingly focused on political and cultural themes.”
Likewise, the final paragraph from my letter to him reads as follows:
“In short, I'm asking you directly to be more cognizant of the fact that not everyone will agree with you. Moreover, that disagreement does not automatically make them bad or evil. My support for masks and vaccines does not make me a socialist … I am hoping that we will be able to reach some kind of understanding and equilibrium going forward. Contrary to what you may think, I derive no joy from publicly opposing you ... I'm not suggesting that you change your opinions or beliefs - I'm wondering, however, if you would be willing to acknowledge that the pulpit may not be the best forum for all of them? If so, you would never have to worry about another public challenge from me.”
What follows are some excerpts from Pastor Watson’s reply to my outreach to him:
“I too, have some "fond" memories of you out at Gargus Hall with Greg Sargent and Robly Evans and so many others. You were quite the ‘ideal teen example’ back then––a lot of people had high hopes for you. But, to my dismay as well, over the years the ‘unfortunate truth’ of your dysfunction, struggles, and confusion caused you to drift into some dysphoria that sadly, messed with your sexual orientation. The disappointment of those that mentored you when you were young––would today, be devastating to them if they only knew how far you have drifted and abandoned the God you once knew so well.
I'm not sure as to just what recent events compelled you to reach out to me as you claim, but I'm stunned as to how ‘myopic’ you perceive my subject material to be. I'm…probably one of the more prolific topical presenters, comparably speaking within the C. of G. culture…and if you can lay your bias down about things you're at odds with me, you will see the variety of subject materials I cover are just exactly what you said I use to preach on, which you said was about the gospel and spiritual subjects––and I submit to you, I haven't Changed a bit on the varieties of topics I address! This is why it is hard to reason with you because you are in such a ‘closed minded, mind set’––a very stubborn man––and you're not honest with me, yourself, or your family…
Lonnie you speak from a lofty elitist point of view with a condescending demeanor that drips with self-righteousness. I am stunned that regardless of whether you accept the God of the Bible anymore or not…”
In most of the next two paragraphs, Pastor Watson tells me that I should be “happy” that my family members are still involved in Armstrongism,
Continuing with Mr. Watson’s reply:
“But sadly, those that don't see the hand of God in the lives of their loved ones are still entangled in the aberrant dysfunction of the generational curses of the family they're in––and Lonnie that is clearly and sadly pointing right at you!”
More of the same
“So, getting back to your ‘conversation’ about your apprehensions and concerns––and the bias described in your second-last paragraph and the appeal outlined in your last paragraph–– all I can say Lonnie is shame on you for using me to deflect from your own ‘personal intimacy issues and ‘emotional dysfunctions’ in your own life. My positions on the ‘policies’ of the day within the geopolitical realm we operate in means nothing in this grand scheme of the Hendrix family curse. And Lonnie, it's up to you––that's right––you are accountable to determine what your going to do about your family issues…not to mention your own family challenges that continue, due to patterns that repeat so cycles ‘stay in play.’
Lonnie, stop the foolishness. Chasing me and attempting to undermine my ministry will only serve to embarrass and insult yourself and reveal who you really are. You have no moral ground to stand on predicated on the Bible (Rom. 1:24-25 & 26-32). My positions within the political arena, though they deal with ‘policy,’ not party politics––never-the-less, remains only a distraction between us. It helps you to cope with the Hendrix family curses by obfuscation. The real issues you need to face are the confused and aberrant intimacy dysfunctions within your own tabernacle Lonnie––that is where the demons lie––deep in those insecurities. The question is do you have the courage to face them in all their rotten, smelly, and perverted forms, taking them on to break the family curses these demons have plague your families for centuries––do you have the courage to change the patterns and break into new cycles?”
After some more familial advice, he concluded his letter by telling me to
“get on with your life and do some good, as opposed to being an accuser of the brethren and your family, which you are doing every time you make an effort to spin me in some Satanic way that makes you feel good. Lonnie, you'll only continue to play into the hands of the devil and that is a dangerous game to play! I pray for you Lonnie. But, you really need to stop deflecting and grow up and face the dysfunction, anger, and disappointment in your life; only then will you be set free from the bonds you refuse to let go of.”
Other than affirming my continued belief in the God of the Bible and my undiminished love for my family, I will not offer any assessments of my own with respect to the relative merits of my original outreach or Mr. Watson’s reply. I am content to let our readers evaluate our messages and reach their own conclusions about them. However, whatever conclusions you reach about this correspondence, I think that this is a classic example of how Armstrongites have responded to their critics for the last eighty years. What do you think?
--Miller Jones or Lonnie Hendrix
24 comments:
I have no words for the disgusting behavior of Bill Watson. What a shame!
How will Watson respond when his increasingly public record of preaching politics from his "pulpit" causes his church to lose its religious tax exemption?
Watsons reply is near non-stop accusations. This is the typical minister ploy of beating members down so that they can relate to their victims from a "top dog" position. It's an attack on peoples intellectual independence and stewardship of their own lives. It's murder, pure and simple. But this is OK you see, cause Herb said they can do it, and besides, every one else is doing it as well.
Talk about an accuser of the brethren! This is disgusting that a minister carries on like this and says this kind of stuff. Shame on him!
Man what a douche...
and he is supposed to speak for God?
Yeah armstrongism is all about control and manipulation, hence the scientific methods used to induce a fear and/or hypnotic state (science is ok if it serves the ends of the future rulers of the universe :BARF: ) Oh just thought I'm sure I'm not supposed to say something like what I parentheses... Oh well its no secret that I'd rather be burned to ash than slave under most armstrongites.
and now I bid y'all a happy sabbath if you keep it or a happy Saturday if not
(which while I keep it somewhat if anyone else does is not any of my business anymore :) lol )
While I still believe what little a brainwashed child could learn about God & Jesus in one of the acog's thats sadly not much
Where is the evidence Bill Watson even wrote this ??
Gargus Hall ? Greg Sargent ?! Isn't he a Pastor in COGWA and before that UCG? When was he ever in CGI?
Please carefully notice these phrases in Watson’s reply…
* “your own ‘personal intimacy issues and ‘emotional dysfunctions’ in your own life.”
* “you are accountable to determine what your going to do about your family issues…”
* “the courage to face them in all their rotten, smelly, and perverted forms, taking them
on to break the family curses these demons have plague your families for centuries––“
* “and aberrant intimacy dysfunctions within your own tabernacle”
40-years ago these were the characteristics of the founder of the Church of God, International. GTA was a sex addict and Watson had no problem joining a “personality cult” with these qualities. GTA was his hero as he kissed rumps to climb the hierarchy of GCI.
Anonymous 6/4 @ 7:06,
Gargus Hall in Lorain, Ohio is where the Cleveland West congregation of the Worldwide Church met back in the late 1970s (Greg Sargent was originally a pastor in that church). And, my article was written and posted at the invitation of NO2HWA after reading the original email.
Miller:
I know very little about the context for this exchange, but you are clearly barking up the wrong tree. This is a dialog you should discontinue. Overall, it seems like you made an heartfelt appeal that this person revise a political stance that is very popular in the United States now and he responded by accusing you of ulterior motives. And all of this heavily influenced by the non-pastoral template for interacting with lay members used by the Armstrongist ministry.
I know that honest concern for others and personal acquaintance led you to give this a shot, but the outcome was predictable. He is unlikely to abandon a view that can be heard all over the United States from many evangelical pulpits on Sunday. He has caught a great contemporary American current. (Let me hasten to add that it is not conservatism in the wind but a trendy type of populism.) If he were to recant, what would we do about the other millions?
With demographics clearly unfavorable to the White people of North America, I do not expect this political view to abate anytime soon. But we might ask ourselves why should politics overflow into the pulpit? No denomination is apolitical. Some seek to subdue political tendencies for the sake of the Gospel. Others are certain that Jesus must be their overt political ally. Politics will forever vie with religion.
In the last analysis, we must acknowledge his own words "my ministry." It is a personal perspective that will inevitably gather to it like minds inside of a tiny apocalyptic Millerite denomination that lacks any real influence. I don't mean to sound a note of resignation but I am sounding a note of resignation. We both have better things to do.
******* Click on my icon for Disclaimer
NEO,
As always, I appreciate your perspective and comments. And, yes, I suspected that the outcome of my effort might be what it turned out to be, but I had to make the effort (there is a dynamic within my own family relative to this individual which prompted me to try). And, yes, I agree with you that it is highly unlikely that we will soften any hearts or change any minds on the other side, but we should never stop trying. Frankly, it is too dangerous to allow this narrative to go unchallenged (and I was trying to reach out in Christian love and offer a carrot instead of the proverbial stick). Nevertheless, I have made clear to Mr. Watson that the continuation of his extremist narrative will result in continued challenges from me.
When I attended services, I noticed that the ministers and many members had a "circle the wagons" mindset. This response is understandable in times of strong persecution, but for it to be ongoing in better times is counter productive. How can a wagon train move forward if it is continually circled?? There's no progress. Growth is stifled.
This post is weird. Miller or (?) Lonnie ? "dysfunction of the generational..." ? "centuries" ?
Authenticity?
A fanatic always doubles down. The more you press him the more he believes he is correct. Its a waste of time even trying to convince the fanatic that they 'might' be wrong.
"How will Watson respond when his increasingly public record of preaching politics from his "pulpit" causes his church to lose its religious tax exemption?"
a classic misunderstanding of the law concerning churches and what is preached from the pulpit.
if they are organized as a 501c3, then there could be some constraints on them, but not all churches are 501c3....and they can say anything they choose from the pulpit and there is nothing the government can (legally) do about it.
Wholeheartedly agree Anon 10:23. Weird is an understatement.
That didn't stop Jesus from handing the Scribes' and Pharisees' asses to them.
Big mistake "Jones" as this raises serious questions as to whom NO2HWA actually is.
Well, damn! I’m not me. Who would have thunk it! I’ve been found out!!!
No2 is really Bob Thiel. He does this blog to keep attention off of himself till he has faded from peoples imaginations then he writes about himself to keep him in the forefront of the minds of COG people.
It has taken you this long to figure that out? Sheesh!
Anonymous 6/5 @ 1:45 and 5:31,
Your efforts to deceive and obfuscate always fall flat. The majority of folks who read this blog are not fooled or distracted by your exploits! And, by the way, God and his Church don't need you to defend them.
@12:36 PM is late to this party. CGI has claimed tax-exempt status that is at risk when their officers engage in political advocacy while pretending to engage in religious speech. The more relevant tax codes, though, are at 170(b) rather than the 501c3 that Anon 12:36 PM carelessly assumes.
NO2HWA, there's a quick check you can make to see if you're really you. Look in the mirror. If the image you see is not familiar, you're somebody else.
This test is guaranteed to work unless you've been replaced by an exact double. I wouldn't worry about that, though. Seldom or never can anybody pull that off.
This is no 12:36 PM. Maybe you are at the wrong party.
10:50
Retired Prof.
I wish to digress in the sense that when I shaved my "quarterly Covid beard" for the first time I did feel able to empathize with those waking up from plastic surgery and see themselves again for the first time post surgery.
Nck
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