It's another sunny day in California and the craziness out of Grover Beach continues unabated. One never knows what fantastical utterance with come from the lips of the most important Church of God leader in human history and the Great White Bwana to Africa and 305 Caucasians.
After getting called out for quoting too much from Herbert Armstrong, and making endless excuses as to why he does so, the Great Bwana said this:
We strive not to teach error and do not teach that what Herbert Armstrong wrote is not subject to correction. The Bible, not Herbert Armstrong, is the standard that we go by.
The improperly named "continuing" Church of "god" is filled with so many erroneous errors that even Satan himself can't keep up with them! Starting with his utter rebellion and hissy fit with Rod Meredith and the Living Church of God to his self-appointment due to a bunch of nightmares he had, there is nothing legitimate about this guy.
Despite organization changes, successively and doctrinally we are NOT a new church. We teach Laying on of Hands succession from the apostles. We clearly trace our history from the Book of Acts to present.
Herbert Armstrong would have kicked Bob's delicate ass to the curb so fast his flailing hands would never have caught him. Thiel is right up there with Pack and Flurry joining with them in direct rebellion against everything Herbert Armstrong taught.
Therefore, we often quote Church of God leaders, not just from the New Testament, but also those from the second century A.D. to present. We do this to demonstrate the consistency of the doctrines of the true church as well as to show what “the faith once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3) was in the period immediately after the death of the last of the apostles.
When Bob Thiel says he follows the teachings of the things HWA supposedly restored, he is a liar.
“Don’t simply believe me – Believe what the Bible really Teaches – Believe the Truth – Prove all things –Believe God!”
And I will take it one step further. Irrespective of how any may view the role that God has for me, unless I am directly quoting the Bible, or preface a statement to something of the effect of “thus saith the Lord,” I am NOT necessarily stating anything that is not subject to later correction. We who are truly part of the Church of God only accept as inspired the 39 books of the Old Testament and the 27 books of the New Testament and no other document. Therefore, although other current and historical documents/articles/books/booklet/posts by various Church of God leaders throughout history often have value, as they generally also tend to contain personal opinion, we do not consider that any of them are on the same level as sacred scripture, and hence believe that they can contain error.
Never has the COG had such a snake in the grass prophet in its midst. Impotent to make a true prophecy, he weasels his way around everything making one excuse after another so that he cannot be pinned down.
Unable to come up with any real doctrines of his own he has to plagiarize everything HWA said, and more.
That being said, Herbert Armstrong’s writing style often conveys many points in an understandable manner. A manner that we do not feel that we must re-word. A manner which provides variety. Hence, he is quoted.
The Almost Arrested Bwana thinks that because he quotes HWA he is continuing those teachings. What balderdash, as HWA would say!
As mentioned before, he and/or the old Radio/Worldwide Church of God literature are quoted here is to show that certain points covered at COGwriter.com are consistent with the them. Hence, we truly are continuing those teachings. Teachings that groups outside the CCOG sometimes have forgotten or neglected to teach.
Remember Bob's main excuse when he apostatized from the Living Church of God and claimed that Meredith and the church failed to heed his correction and correct doctrines and teachings that he claimed were wrong? That's when he had his little fit and left resulting in Rod Meredith publicly rebuking him.
He is also pulling the same hissyfit with GotQuestions.com in its article about Armstrongism...which is spot on its description of Amrstrongism. The Great Bwana and end time Elijah tried to set them straight and they ignored him. The poor little guy just gets NO RESPECT!
Related to one, GotQuestions.com (who still has not corrected something I brought up about a year ago), we put together the following:
What is Armstrongism? Are Some Dismissive of Original Christianity?
The physical head of the old Radio/Worldwide Church of God was the late Herbert W. Armstrong. What he taught has been derided as “Armstrongism.” What were some of those teachings? Was the old Worldwide Church of God some type of weird cult or did it strive to contend earnestly for the faith once for all delivered to the saints? Is “Armstrongism” improperly maligned and falsely described at GotQuestions.com? Are concepts such as the tribes of Israel, ‘soul sleep,’ and three resurrections unique to Herbert W. Armstrong or were they long part of original Nazarene Christianity? What about various holidays and Christianity? In this video, Dr. Thiel goes over his early experiences with “Armstrongism” as well as gives scriptures about persecutions that would affect Christians.
But, as a continuation of the true apostolic Church of God, we in the Continuing Church of God believe it is helpful to quote recent as well as ancient COG writers for their perspective and insight, as well as to show continuity.
All who profess Christ should, “contend earnestly for the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints” (Jude 3).
The reason that we quote the Bible and other COG leaders is to help show that we do.
There is nothing about Bob Thiel's little cult that "contend's earnestly for the faith which was once delivered" It is so far from 1st Century Christianity that the apostles would have rebuked him and cast him out of the church and then would have written an entire book about his heresy and rebellion.
So when Bob says he did not start a new church he is lying to you.
33 comments:
Armstrongites like Thiel are in error:
Early Christianity did NOT keep the Jewish Sabbath:
The earliest Christian document, Galatians, is anti-sabbatarian (chapter 4)
Bob has indeed started a new True Sliver, and made it clear there are no other True Slivers on the planet today, so there's that.
Oh, no, "erroneous errors"! The worst kind!
Another attempt from Bob to appear like HWA's break from CG7, not to start a "new era" but to be the end-time remnant. But CCOG doesn't properly "bookend" the First Century church that he claims to have faithfully followed.
I have two questions for you, and I want you to answer me: (1) If God is "good," which He is, and if He's all-powerful and all-knowing, which He is (both): then Why does He allow this great evil spirit called the Devil and Satan, to continually harass people, and channel evil into the minds of all human beings, for 6,000 years? Why didn't/ doesn't God destroy him, or prevent him from causing all this chaos and "destruction" on earth for 6,000 years? causing untold suffering, wars, discontented unhappy unfulfilled lives in billions of poor helpless human beings, as we see happening all over the world today? If there really is such a great evil corrupted spirit being, which there is, Why didn't God make him to be righteous from the beginning? Why didn't God prevent him from turning into/ becoming such a horrific horrible monster? Why did not God "prevent" such a terrible tragedy/ catastrophe from happening? And (2) If people are instantly "saved," at conversion, as soon as they profess Christ, or get baptized, or come forward at the altar call "at church," when the preacher asks them to, or whatever other prescribed methods or formula they're being told, whereby they can get "saved" and/ or "born again," as the popular assumption goes, as most professing Christians believe today: If that's all there is to the Christian life, in becoming a real Christian, then I want you to "think about" and answer me this: Why then does God not instantly take you to your "reward," up in heaven or wherever/ whatever your reward is supposed to be? if you are already "saved" as they say? If you are already a Christian? Why do you have to continue living on this "terrible" earth, living in this wretched miserable state of affairs, here on this earth? Why do you have to continue to "suffer"?
Mainly 641 because we're actually on our own with no real "strong hand from somewhere" that is going to rescue us.
Thiel has inspired me!
Im getting a "LETS GO BOBBY" hat, in white lettering on red.
Dennis wrote:
Mainly 641 because we're actually on our own with no real "strong hand from somewhere" that is going to rescue us.
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Sorry Dennis, that is not even close to true. And, thankfully, we have you and some others here that prove the Bible is true, AND that that “strong hand from somewhere is alive and well.
Around 2,000, years ago a book was sealed, and closed, as well as its predecessor the Hebrew scriptures, which is even older. For some strange reason those two books, thousands of years old, described a certain class of people that didn’t even exist then, that would pester the bible believers today. Perfect descriptions that can easily and clearly be seen today. Thus, giving no doubt as to who they are, as they are described in HUNDREDS of verses. And, they cannot do other than what those verses say they will do. Hundreds of verses that are so accurate it is impossible to believe they are accidental. Only one Being could bring this about over thousands of years later. And, here’s the rub for those so described. THEY CANNOT STOP DOING WHAT THEY ARE PROGRAMMED TO DO! I challenge them to try. They can’t except for one thing to happen, a personal miracle for each of those individuals.
Here is number 3 out of the first 200 verses.
3. … many (the UNgodly) are saying of me, ‘There is no help for him in Elohim.’
Written 2500+ yrs ago.
They repeat this today, because they are programmed by the Creator to do so.
4. "Proud men, how long will you be so misguided, loving to deal in LIBELS, eager on vain intrigues?"
Programmed 2 do this, they can't stop.
5. For in their talk there is not truth, their hearts are deep with mischief, their throats are open graves — smooth-tongued deceivers!
Anybody recognize these?
6. "the scoundrel is alive with malice, hatching mischief and deception;."
And, they are still at it 2500 yrs later. Perfect description.
8. "The UNgodly BOASTS of his rapacity; the plunderer DISOWNS, DESPISES YHWH."
Sound and look familiar? It should. Predicted 2500+ yrs ago
9. "he thinks in his INSOLENCE, ‘Elohim never punishes’;" 10:4
Well, just 9 descriptions of a-theoi so far, 100's to go. They fear Bible.
Well, there’s 9 less #7, with HUNDREDS to go.
So, why are the atheists and critics programmed to be like this? To give us LIVING, DAILY PROOF, that the Father and Son do exist, and that the bible is true.
Rom 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest IN them; for God hath shewed it unto them.
Notice the IN in caps? That is the Greek word εη. The word simply means IN. As he is in the room. The bird is in the cage. Our heart is in our body. So, what manifests ‘GOD’ lies in them, in their mind and being. And, the cap stone is another verse shows their mind is programmed to do these bible descriptions. A book simply written by men from thousands of years ago COULD NOT bring this about thousands of years later. Just think about it. As someone wrote, “I write not for men who read and run, but for those who STOP AND THINK.”
Would love to post the rest of the first 200 verses.
They will blow your mind when you see how accurate they are by comparing the critical postings on this and other sites like it. It’s like deja-vu all over again.
However, can “they” stand the heat?
Yes, Dennis there is a real Elohim.
Anon 6:41,god is not good. As a matter of fact god has killed more people than all the serial killers throughout history.
Anon 9:31 God is good he is just showing his power and authority to us if you do sin he will take your life out of love because the sinners are destroying the environment.
Bob Thiel is a good man with integrity.
Since it's back to question time:
Anon 4:49, if all it took to abolish God's Sabbath was a word from Paul to former Pagans, why did it take a whole council meeting of the Apostles and elders in Jerusalem to decide that Gentiles needn't be circumcised?
Is Jesus still "Lord of the Sabbath"?
Paul also denied any teaching against the Law, and said he kept the Law and Traditions. Is Paul a liar?
Just wondering.
As a matter of fact you are incorrect 6:41
If people do not heed the warnings given them ahead of time, then they chose to disobey, and it is on their own head,
Atheists and the like are all alike. To them they never have to take on personal responsibility for their actions. It’s always Elohim at fault for them. What a childish way to excuse disobedience and its penalties.
Thanks for once again proving Elohim exists and the Bible true. You’re doing your programming well. Thanks.
Bob Petry. You are just as annoying now as you were when you had our blogs and endless preached gobbly-goop that no one cared about.
6.41 AM
Contemporary Christianity has difficulty answering your questions because of a lack of respect for basic reality.
For instance, people, including Satan are free moral agents. When have the ACOGs ever respected that? On the contrary, they try to reduce their members to the Borg level, with the ministers micromanaging their lives.
11:03 said: Bob Petry. You are just as annoying now as you were when you had our blogs and endless preached gobbly-goop that no one cared about.
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Thanks. The truth always annoys those who resist it. If you don’t care about it, you are free not to read it. All complaints like this mean you can’t rebut the message. And, it gets harder to do so as the truth unfolds.
Did you mean your blogs, or our blogs?
And, your example of gobbly-goop is?
Please, inform me with proof that is what it is.
Oh, and thanks once again for proving those HUNDREDS of verses are accurate. You just verified once again the bible is correct and Elohim lives. That’s encouraging to lots of folks looking for a way to rebut a-theists and critics!!!
Once they see all the verses describing them, well, no more false arguments against the truth that believers have to be concerned about.
Anonymous 6:41
You have stepped into the arena with something called theodicy and he is a heavy puncher. Many people have been taken out by him. I get dusted up every once in a while. Theodicy is about evil and how it operates.
We live in the Post-Resurrection, Pre-Parousia period of "already but not yet." Jesus overthrew Thrones, Principalities and Powers but they continue to operate. Paul mentions them freqently in his writings. They are licensed by God. It is because of them that the world is what it is. One day Jesus will implement their deposition. He has asked us to pray in Matthew 6:10, "Come and set up your kingdom, so that everyone on earth will obey you, as you are obeyed in heaven." (Contemporary English Version)
But you are asking why does evil still persist? Why have the rudiments of the world not already been shut out? Evil has a purpose. Much has been written about theodicy and there is much material to read. I am not a master of this material. But let me follow one strand in the weaving. Reacting to evil was so important that God came to earth himself incarnate and fought against it. Evil defeated Jesus physically but he defeated it spiritually - the only victory that counts. And he left us an example that we should follow in his footsteps. So clearly the continuing presence of evil makes possible the ministry of the Holy Spirit in our lives during this Post-Resurrection epoch.
That is about as far as I can go for now. Maybe I will understand more some day.
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Anon 9:59, Jehovah is a psychopath. He said not to commit murder, but takes out innocent children. Apparently he is exempt from the very laws he gave to us.
2.29 PM
The purpose of human history is to smash false gods. If enough people strongly believe in something, eg, communism, God gives it to them. For instance, He gave half of Europe, including the hard working Germans, to the Soviets at the end of WW2 to prove or disprove their ideology. The false Egyptian gods that God destroyed upon ancient Israel leaving Egypt is another good example of this.
Smug ol' Petry believes that every response attempting to hold him accountable for his assininity proves that he, his cherry-picked scriptures and the meanings which he learned to impute to them through Armstrongism are right. I literally picture Dave Pack or Gerald Flurry every time I see one of his posts. I suggest that we treat him the same as we would Pack or Flurry or any of the other charlatans of their ilk if they made an appearance here. Better yet, just respond to everybody else, and ignore Petry thus getting the blog back to normal.
Bob Petry, you say atheists don't take personal responsibility and to them it's Elohim that's at fault. But how could they think Elohim is at fault when they don't believe Elohim exists?Tell me what I'm missing
Anonymous 3:01 wrote, "Anon 9:59, Jehovah is a psychopath. He said not to commit murder, but takes out innocent children. Apparently he is exempt from the very laws he gave to us."
I am going to venture out on this topic. I have said here in an earlier comment that theodicy is a difficult topic and one that I feel is yet unformed for me. Let us take the example of the Noachian Flood. (First, as a sidebar, I believe the Flood was local and not global. Several ancient Middle Eastern peoples have Flood stories that probably stem from the same actual event - but it was local. The KJV translators globalized it. The Bible is about the Jews and their immediate environs.) Local or global, without a doubt, many babies and infants, below the age of accountability, died in the Flood.
There is a short view and a long view of this. In the short view the deaths of innocents in the Flood is horrific and bespeaks a cruel God. In the long view, the redemption of those innocents is glorious and bespeaks a compassionate God. For most of us, the short view is the most important, like John Maynard Keynes wrote, "In the long run we are all dead." Without a doubt God has the right to destroy his creations if he sees they have become pathological in some way, either individually of societally. The question of mercy pivots on what happens ultimately to those creations.
If I were an infernalist, like most Protestants and Catholics, I would believe that all the innocents who died in the Flood went gliding into eternal damnation in hell. That is apalling. But I don't believe that. I believe in Universalism like many of the early Christians. I believe that a compassionate and omnipotent God will bring all people to salvation by whatever appropriate route and all will be participants in the Apokatastasis - what Jesus refers to as the "renewal of all things" in Matthew (see Gregory of Nyssa). Universalism results in a different view of theodicy. I admit I cannot make a credible defense of the Flood in the traditional infernalist context.
This could get long. So I will stop here. The only point I am making is that the flavor of theology or non-theology that you believe in interacts strongly with this question. I am glad that I wasn't in the Flood.
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"A strong hand from somewhere". Is that the hand HWA used to stroke himself with? I wonder if any of the ACOG fuhrers know for sure?
Flood
Jos 11:23 So Joshua took the whole land, according to all that the LORD said unto Moses; and Joshua gave it for an inheritance unto Israel according to their divisions by their tribes. And the land rested from war.
Jos 13:1 Now Joshua was old and stricken in years; and the LORD said unto him, Thou art old and stricken in years, and there remaineth yet very much land to be possessed.
"A Bible atlas will show visually that this description [Josh 13:1-6] encompasses quite a bit of land. Indeed, a rough estimate would place the success level at around 50 percent at the highest... As a matter of fact, Canaan was not completely subdued until the time of David a number of centuries later. The author is intentionally using universalistic language and intends to convey rhetorically, that the conquest was complete, but did not correspond to the actual geographical scope of the conquest. Thus it uses hyperbole to make a theological point...
"Thus, we are brought to the conclusion that Genesis 6-9 pertains to a local flood described rhetorically as a worldwide flood to make a theological point...
"We cannot derive the physical scope or range of the event from the literary-theological presentation chosen by the biblical author. If asked, Was the flood global? our answer would be, Yes it is global in is impact and significance, yet we have no reason to think that its physical scope and range was global. Since the Bible uses the rhetoric of hyperbole to describer the flood, it does not claim that the flood was universal in its physical scope and range; it rather portrays it in universalistic terms for rhetorical effect. If we turn to science, we find no evidence that suggests a global deluge. If science does not suggest a universal event, and the Bible (in our nuanced interpretation) does not claim a universal event, we have no reason to conclude that it was a universal event. Such a conclusion would diminish neither the authority of the text nor the significance of the event as unfolded in the interpretation of the author of Genesis...
"That the biblical authors are giving us a selective and interpretative accounting of the past to present their theological message is well confirmed by the following quote by the Gospel writer: "Jesus performed many other signs in the presence of his disciples, which are not recorded in this book. But these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Messiah, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name" (Jn 20:30-31)" (Tremper Longman III & John H. Walton, The Lost World of the Flood, pp.32, 93, 178, 22-23).
Anonymous 12:30
I found your research interesting. So much pivots on language. And when terms have equivocal meanings, it is easy to build a structure of belief that is founded on mistaken notions. A hint that the Flood was local is the fact that the so-called "Table of Nations" is referred to in scripture as the Clans of the Sons of Noah. This takes the table from global to local status. The rest of humankind would then be external to this table and unaffected by the Flood.
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Stevereno, maybe you missed this and all the posts. like it all over this site:
Anonymous said...
Anon 9:59, Jehovah is a psychopath. He said not to commit murder, but takes out innocent children. Apparently he is exempt from the very laws he gave to us.
Thursday, January 6, 2022
Your point goes even deeper, if you think about it. Atheists and other critics spend so much effort condemning Elohim in a way that says their subconscious mind believes He exists. Yet, they think they believe He doesn’t. Self-delusion I think it is called.
Oh, here’s another “cherry picked” post describing atheists and critics.
57. The UNGODLY are FAR FROM help, for they have no mind to thy laws. 119:155
You can't get them to listen long enough to prove a point.
Flood question: Uh, what kept the flood local? Mountain ranges?
Bob Petry, those two examples are not atheists who are not taking "personal responsibility." The one that called Jehovah a psychopath didn't personally have anything to do with what happened in the Bible. How does one take responsibility for that? Plus your point that atheists take time to condemn Elohim means subconsciously they believe in him is a weak point. I've often said Dr. Hannibal Lector of Silence of the Lambs is a psycho. I did a book report on it in high school. Does it mean I subconsciously believe he is real? That's what atheists are saying, That Elohim is a character in a book. And whether God is real or not that has nothing to do with atheists not taking responsibility for themselves
You may need to reduce the number of The Prophet Bob's caucasian followers by 1. Sadly, for the many who loved him, Richard (Dick) Close died this week.
In today's Sermon, Bob tells us, as far as his research reveals, CCOG is the splinter that is the "final phase" and the "short work" of the Philadelphia church era.
Does the head sheep in the CCOG poster appear to be missing a leg?
For the record, I believe in God but I just don't like him very much.
Jas 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
The question 7:09 is, do you “shudder”?
“The Greek term phrisso describes a shudder that results from fear. That the demons so respond to the fact of God is evidence that there belief is a thorough conviction. However, their response is also evidence that their faith is not saving faith, for they are terrified at the thought of God. Belief has not brought them peace with God. Saving faith, then, is not mere intellectual acceptance of a theological proposition. It goes much deeper, involving the whole inner man and expressing itself outwardly in a changed life” (Donald W. Burdick, James, EBC, Vol,12, p.183).
Creation/Eden
“global to local status”
Ge 1:2b And the spirit [ruach] of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Ge 8:1b and God made a wind [ruach] pass over the earth, and the waters assuaged;
“The literary elements in Genesis 6-9 demonstrate a parallel structure set up with Genesis 1-3. The Flood recreates the watery chaos of Genesis 1:2. The waters of the Flood are acted upon by a wind sent from God (8:1), as are the initial waters (1:2). After the waters have receded and the dry land appeared, God brings out Noah and his family and the animals, just as he brought forth in creation” (John Walton, Genesis, NIVAC, p.331).
Ge 1:25 And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind [miyn], and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind [miyn]...
Ge 8:19 Every beast, every creeping thing, and every fowl, and whatsoever creepeth upon the earth, after their kinds [mishpachah], went forth out of the ark.
“In 8:19 the text even emphasizes one family after another, reminiscent of their being created after their kind. This bringing out is connected with a reference to blessing in 8:16-17” (John Walton, Genesis, NIVAC, p.331).
Ge 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground [’adama],
Ge 2:15 And the LORD God took the man [’adam], and put him into the garden of Eden
Ge 9:20 Noah, a man of the soil [’adama], proceeded to plant a vineyard.
Ge 2:25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Ge 9:21b and he [Noah] was uncovered within his tent.
Ge 3:6a And when the woman saw [ra’ah] that the tree was good for food ... and did eat,
Ge 9:22 And Ham, the father of Canaan, saw [ra’ah] the nakedness of his father,
Ge 3:6b and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
Ge 9:22b and told his two brethren without.
Ge 3:21 Unto Adam also and to his wife did the LORD God make coats of skins, and clothed them.
Ge 9:23 And Shem and Japheth took a garment, and laid it upon both their shoulders, and went backward, and covered the nakedness of their father; and their faces were backward, and they saw not their father's nakedness.
“ “Recursion” is the author’s deliberate shaping of the narrative events so that key elements of one narrative are repeated in others. The cumulative effect of such stories is the sense that the whole of the real world has a shape and order reflected in the shape and order of the biblical narratives (J. Sailhamer, “Genesis,” A complete Literary Guide to the Bible, 112)” (John Walton, ibid., p.347).
Ge 2:5 no plant of the field was yet in the earth, and no herb of the field sprouted: for the LORD God had not caused it to rain upon the earth, and there was not a man ['adam] to till the ground ['adama]
“... in Gen 1-2 ... two creation stories are placed one after the other rather than being interwoven" (John Goldingay, Isaiah, NIBC, p.215).
Ge 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
The above has been presented as a further ‘support’ to what I have suggested before:
What was created in Genesis 1-2 was not a creation of a total new heaven and earth, but Eden and its Garden.
Da 2:35b and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
Eden was meant to be the microcosm that was going to expand to “fill’ the whole earth.
It is called FREE MORAL AGENCY!! God did NOT create ROBOTS!! MAN chooses to sin and continually reaps the consequences.
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