RCG’s David C. Pack Paints Himself Into Another Corner
David C. Pack spent 53 minutes during the Ministerial Conference yesterday “demystifying the office of prophet” for the attendees and the entire church. He stated that he “has been” Elijah the Prophet instead of as in recent months, preaching that in the future-tense.
The declaration of him being a prophet (Elijah is That Prophet) years ago was walked back over time. In fact, re-read these quotes from Part 374:
“So, if it’s true that I am Elijah the prophet now, then this is a lock for next week. [The 1335 begins on Tuesday, June 14, 2022] It’s an absolute lock…You heard what I said as recently as yesterday, I’m telling, not foretelling.”
“So, I I I look, you know my heart. As recently as this week, I’ve gone I’ve said, ‘No no no no, I’m not I’m not Elijah.’ I still wanna say I’m not...Am I telling or foretelling? I guess I could say, ‘not sure.’”
Flash forward to four days later. Part 375 delivered on June 12, 2022.
@ 13:57 “Now, I don’t know when I became an apostle. I explained it 18 years ago, but I don’t know when I became an apostle, neither did Mr. Armstrong. So, would it be strange that I would not know when I became a prophet? I mean, I I I been talking about prophey a long time. I may’ve been Elijah for a week. I may’ve been Elijah since the series began for 6 2/3 years where I been explaining things and laying out, but mostly prophesying in part. Just in part. And and knowing in part and then knowing more and prophesying a little more of a part. But there would come a point where would culminate and it would become easy to understand, the whole mystery’s gone. And then as far as, we might say the vernacular as far as God’s purpose, ‘Now it’s game on!’ You see? Think of it that way. But, I don’t know when I became a a a a an a a prophet. I don’t know.”
All that David C. Pack has done this week is solidify his fraudulent office. Those at the Ministerial Conference will be direct witnesses of his failure when the 1335 does not begin tomorrow.
@ 16:40 “Now, to be unable to know when or how he functioned as Elijah uh before that is incomplete and it’d be wrong but it’s wrong to say uh he he he he is is not here. Uh and anybody who says, ‘Well, I don’t know if you’ve functioned as Elijah yet.’ Well, lemme just tell ya something, you now I’ma tell ya, you do not and cannot believe, you do not and cannot possibly believe Christ’s return is imminent. Because this man functions as Elijah right before it happens. If somebody wants to say, ‘I don’t think you have yet,’ now they’re probably gonna leave the church in the next five minutes, but I’m just telling you, somebody had that attitude my I would say, ‘Okay. If if you wanna hold view, okay. Not a problem. But just do not pretend for one second to think you believe all the other metrics that suggest Christ is coming soon. You couldn’t possibly.”
Jeremiah 14:14 - Then the LORD said unto me, The prophets prophesy lies in my name: I sent them not, neither have I commanded them, neither spake unto them: they prophesy unto you a false vision and divination, and a thing of nought, and the deceit of their heart.
@ 29:27 “Now, we could ask this, ‘If I’m laying out what’s gonna happen and essentially, when, in practical reality, practical reality, what am I doing?’ I mean, just just just looking at it, ‘If Mr. Pack says and that we we know all that we’re supposed to know and this is this is the year and everything lines up,’ just on its face, if I’m saying uh you know, let us look toward next Tuesday [June 14, 2022] and here’s here and here are the things that’re gonna happen, what would you call that? It’s not speaking in tongues. It’s not the gift of healing. It’s not discerning spirits. It sounds an awful lot like the gift of prophecy, even if it’s for that moment if you wanted to say.”
@ 31:18 “And then I would just reiterate another point, you can ‘know in part and prophesy in part.’ Didn't mean I would get everything right.”
The term “in part” does not equal “wrong” and “false” – but in Dave’s mind, it is the same.
He went on to talk about Habbakuk 2:2 speaking “plainly” and in “stones.”
@ 33:58 “In other words, harden this up right before it happens. That sounds like a prophet is saying what’s gonna happen and he’s ‘rushing to call it out’ in ‘the last days of his voice’ and this time put it in blood, stone, and steel. So to speak. Carve it in the wood. Engrave it because it’s solid at the very end.”
Jeremiah 28:9 - The prophet which prophesieth of peace, when the word of the prophet shall come to pass, then shall the prophet be known, that the LORD hath truly sent him.
What do you suppose the spin will be on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday? Dave will remind members of that “84 hours of slop” mask that will drop into their laps from above, providing crucial biblical oxygen so he can make them euphoric and also drag this out for a few more days.
@ 39:09 “So then I ask the question, ‘Did I get the last messages from God’s mouth?’ I’ve never pretended to get a vision that potentially ‘Uh oh, you got a vision, maybe you got it from a demon,’ somebody could. I don’t I didn’t get any visions. I didn’t hear any voices. I didn’t see uh you know, Gabriel in my bedroom or anything like that.”
Numbers 12:6 - And He said, Hear now My words: If there be a prophet among you, the LORD will make Myself known unto him in a vision, will speak unto him in a dream.
I say AMEN to David C. Pack being correct. I say AMEN to the Kingdom of God and Jesus Christ coming this week. I say AMEN to me being proven a liar so that David C. Pack can be proven to be a true prophet of God. – But let’s wait until this coming Sabbath to make a judgment call on that.
All the attendees at the RCG Ministerial Conference this week in Wadsworth, Ohio will bear witness to another prophetic failure from a false prophet who sits before them.
Deuteronomy 18:20-22 - But the prophet, which shall presume to speak a word in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak, or that shall speak in the name of other gods, even that prophet shall die. And if thou say in thine heart, How shall we know the word which the LORD hath not spoken? When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follows not, nor come to pass, that is the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him.
How can any man or women attending the Restored Church of God read their Bible and still give David C. Pack “a pass” on this?
Marc Cebrian
31 comments:
LOL Just keeps getting better ...
Let's hope the RCG "ministers" who read the above post rise up at the next lecture and tell little davie that he's full of himself and full of crap and not a word of truth, much less true prophecy, has come out of his mouth for years.
There must be ONE man among all the "men" at the conference who can rally the rest to tell little davie that he is crazed at best, demon-possessed at worst, and it's time to say"th th that's all folks!" like the Looney Toon that he became years ago! Or do these "men" fear the wrath of little davie more than they fear God. (Maybe they believe that God will forgive them and little davie won't.)
They will give him a pass because the members need an apostle. They needed Herbert W. Armstrong and they need David C. Pack. Period. Where else could they go to find a self-proclaimed apostle? PCG? CCOG? None of the other COG leaders claim such authority. It is a sickness.
“So, would it be strange that I would not know when I became a prophet?” -- DCP
Dave Pack became a lying false prophet as soon as he opened his lying mouth.
Klepto-Dave Pack-of-lies: the doctrinally unstable Bait & Switch scammer and “common” thief.
For the love of God (literally), STOP. Just stop! Put the shovel down, admit you are sick and just stop. How much more can these poor people take? Jesus will NEVER return when you say he will. God is not depending on you for anything, prophecy fulfillment or otherwise.
Let my people go! That's far more likely what the Lord is saying to you Dave. Let my people go! And don't forget to feed the horses before you go!
I do not know how Dave can be Elijah when both Bob Thiel and Gerald Flurry claim they are.
Dave can be Spartacus but that's all...
How can the “1335” begin with. I Temple nor two witnesses…?? Dave is a crackpot nut job suffering from Jerusalem Syndrome and belongs in a padded room before he gets people killed….much like Marshall Applewhite.
"Its a lock. It’s an absolute lock … You heard what I said as recently as yesterday, I’m telling, not foretelling.” - Davie C.
So, if nothing happens, (and nothing will happen), how does Elijah explain being so wrong once again? At first I thought this was funny, now I am really concerned for the innocent. Why isn't the main stream media covering this Circus?
Anonymous said...
How can the “1335” begin with. I Temple nor two witnesses…?? Dave is a crackpot nut job suffering from Jerusalem Syndrome
He never leaves the compound, so at best, it's Wadsworth, Across From the Giant Eagle, Syndrome
This is purely ridiculous. If you do not know when you became a prophet or an apostle, then you do not know when you began to be held accountable. And, it's even worse, because Dave constantly gets things wrong, and then attempts to worm his way out, so obviously he must not feel responsible for anything that he says. How can anyone trust a leader who will not be held accountable?
Coming Soon...
Dave is going to declare that he is Jesus.
(or maybe Apollo!)
The titles COGleaders grant themselves reminds me of an episode of Get Smart - to draw attention to himself, Max has himself paged repeatedly, each time with a more imposing title. Unlike COGleaders, the most conspicuous title Max used was President...
2.04 PM
All the ACOGs claim to have an "apostle" but do not use Dave's in your face approach. Rather they claim a defacto apostle position by claiming their church as the 'one true church,' speak their ministers and church leaders name in reverential tones, and pronounce the word 'church' in reverential tones. There's no defence against creativity.
Christ condemned all this bull with His "call no man your master."
"I am Elijah the prophet" .. Davie C. Prove it...
Hoss @ 6:44:00 PM PDT
Get Smart…now if only the cogs had the marbles to ‘get smart’ they might make progress.
But I doubt it,lol.
Anyway Max was head and shoulders above any of the self appointed ‘apostles’.
He and his faithful companion 99 saved humanity numerous times from the clutches of villainous rascals.
I would continue but I have a call coming in on my shoe phone.
Dave Pack is no Elijah. How do we know? We know because Jesus Christ did not lie, and His disciples "got the point" about 2,000 years ago that John the Baptist was "da man!"
Matthew 17:10 "And his disciples asked him, saying, Why then say the scribes that Elias must first come?
11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore all things.
12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed. Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
13 Then the disciples understood that he spake unto them of John the Baptist."
When is Dave Pack going to get in alignment with the understanding of Jesus Christ and His disciples that the one who came in the spirit and power of Elijah was John the Baptist, and admit that Jesus and His disciples never lied to us?
Time will tell...
John
"Dave is a crackpot nut job suffering from Jerusalem Syndrome"
"He never leaves the compound, so at best, it's Wadsworth, Across From the Giant Eagle, Syndrome"
ROTFLMAO!!!
Awesome, as Ron Weinland would say.
Read any of the writings of the true prophets and you will recognize that none of them spoke like Dave today. They spoke/wrote according to what Yahweh told them and none of that sounds like the bull coming out of Dave's mouth today.
Truly this demonic's mind is so polluted that he cannot even understand what he expounds.
It is said that birds of a feather flock together, thus Dave's members are as crazy as he is. They are trapped in the spiritual Twight light zone as he is.
John "When is Dave Pack going to get in alignment with the understanding of Jesus Christ and His disciples that the one who came in the spirit and power of Elijah was John the Baptist, and admit that Jesus and His disciples never lied to us?"
"Who is this John the Baptist and Jesus you speak of?"
Dave
John 8:00
I agree with you on this. It seems like the problem is in the idea of type-antitype in prophecy. A limited principle is applied without limit. A few things are dual so everything is dual. John the Baptist is then not just the Elijah but only the first Elijah with more to come. To keep this engine churning, someone, someday, after all the duality is putatively exhausted, will have to go to type-antitype-anti/antitype and Armstrongist prophecy will become three-fold.
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
“Listen, real poetry doesn't say anything; it just ticks off the possibilities. Opens all doors. You can walk through any one that suits you.” --- James Douglas Morrison.
Dave Pack's real prophecy - his "prophesying in part" for 6 2/3 years, we can conclude, doesn't say anything. Dave has opened all the doors of prophetic fulfillment, most of it imminent and he can walk through any of those doors as it suits him.
Say what you want about Dave Pack, but he is brilliantly clever. The poetic picture that he paints is; if you believe all of the parts of the metric - that Jesus Christ is who he said he was and this is how and when he is going to establish his Kingdom (a matter of faith and belief) then you have to believe a prophet revealed it to you (a matter of faith and belief).
Dave Pack can elaborate incessantly about the conclusions of the "Great Story" because he is entrenched in a religious asylum - one that in his own words; "he paid cash for". What greater proof would there be that an apostle and a prophet was present in Wadsworth, Ohio?
The RCG membership has paid dearly for Dave Pack to unlock the doors of conventional religious thought and establishment. The author that defined true poetry said he was possessed by the spirit of a dead American Indian Shaman. This man could look out his window unto a bristling busy California street and conclude life is nothing but a soft parade.
Dave Pack who has never been entreated by a vision or a voice or a dream, has by a "spirit" coupled his membership unto himself into a theatrical hard parade. The membership want a theatrical parade at Noon today and Dave Pack has given it to them. Repetition having merit, there will be another parade ... then another .... then another.
Dave Pack has convinced himself and his membership that this is not a spectacle. It is creative abstract art with a religious tag filled overflowing with potential possibilities. The question is; who is buying his art and how long will they continue to buy it.
WATT,
You are quite the writer/poet yourself. I very much appreciate your thoughtful and well-presented analysis. The visuals and way of thinking is helpful to "frame the madness" of what is going on.
:)
I only have one comment about that situation, WATT. How spirituelle! Love the fact that you included the wisdom of Jim Morrison of the Doors. Even given the nuances of his personality, Jim makes much better sense than Dave Pack.
It doesn't matter to the ministry or the laity of the RCG if Pack's prophecies come true or not. What actually matters to them is their belief that he's a prophet or an apostle. It's their blind faith that matters, not the reality of the many failures of David Pack's teachings or prophecies. In theological terms, it's called fidelism. It simply means you have faith in your faith, rather than the person of God.
Hoss, Anon 7:13
"If Mr. Pack had only used his bs'ing for niceness instead of evil".
We wonder how Dave's staff remains silent when he says and does all of these ridiculous things, but there's a greater lesson that is now unfolding nationally, and finally sinking into the thick skulls of those on both sides of our national divide. A megalomaniac, when presented with obvious defeat, will even go so far as to reject his normal wise counsellors, and turn to and listen to one drunken loudmouth who tells him exactly what he wants to hear, and will not be deterred by rejection even by a plethora of judges, some of whom he appointed himself!
RCG members: Want to really know how your Apostle's mind works? Watch the Jan. 6 hearings! They are for you! Exactly the same insane pathology!
I've read these blogs for years and now to have it in a video series is a whole other level. Ashame more former memebers or ministers won't participate to tell their experiences. Kudos to Mark and Dennis the videos are very informative and a nice break from reading. I'll be interested to see how the spin off series discussing what makes a cult.
Nut Job!
Mt 17:11 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Elias truly shall first come, and restore [apokatastesei, future tense] all things.
“Elias truly shall first come (erchetai, cometh)... Christ is here alluding to his own second coming, which shall be preceded by the appearance of Elijah... This seems to be the plain meaning of the prophecy in Malachi, and of Christ’s announcement, and is confirmed by St. John’s statement concerning the two witnesses (Rev 11:3, Rev 11:6). That the paragraph cannot refer to John the Baptist is plain from the tenses used in this verse contrasted with those in the following. To regard verse 12 as simply a correction of verse 10 is to do violence to language, and to leave one half of Malachi’s prediction unexplained. Restore (apokatastesei) all things. The event is still future, and was not fulfilled in the Baptist’s preaching, however deep and extensive may have been its influence. Of course, John in a partial degree reproduced the character and acts of Elijah, directing the people to the eternal principles of justice and righteousness, to a reformation of religion and morals; but he could not be said to have reconstituted, re-established all things; though it is possible that, had his message been received and acted upon, some such effects would have been produced. How and in what degree Elijah ... will effect this great achievement, we know not...” (Pulpit Commentary).
Mal 3:1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
Heb 9:28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear [ophthesetai, future tense] the second time without sin unto salvation.
Mal 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD:
John the Baptist, in the spirit and power of Elijah, fulfilled the messenger role preceding Christ at His first appearance/time; and “Elijah the prophet” will fulfill the messenger role preceding Christ at his second appearance/time.
Rev 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
2Ki 1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of God, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.
Rev 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Jas 5:17 Elijah was a man just like us. He prayed earnestly that it would not rain, and it did not rain on the land for three and a half years.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
2Ki 2:11 And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.
2Ki 2:12a And Elisha saw it,
I would suggest that there is more Eliiah the Tishbite ‘typology’ associated with the two witnesses than with John the Baptist.
Mt 17:12a But I say unto you,
“He approves the teaching of the scribes but insists another fact must be taken into account” (D. A. Carson, Matthew, EBC, Vol.6, p.389).
There is perhaps an element of the Hebraic idiom of “relative negation,” also known as “rhetorical negation’,” involved:
“In short, the Hebrew idiom permits denial of one thing in order to emphasize another... The idiom does not intend to deny the statement but only to set it in a secondary place” (Charles L. Feinberg, Jeremiah, EBC, Vol. 6, p.431).
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