Growing up in the early 1960's in the church it was regularly pointed out to us that those around us of a different color were considered Gentiles. That included any Hispanics, Blacks, and any other people that might have been settled in our region of the country. While those members had the same "salvation" we were supposed to have, they were of a lesser kind. It was the British Israelite people who were the chosen of God and everyone else got in on our shirttails.
That foolish myth is still alive today in the improperly named "continuing" Church of God, The Great Bwana to the Gentiles declared today that he has increased his total membership now to a little over 7,500. Of that number 7,300 are church-hopping Adventist/Sabbatarian groups in Africa, the ones he calls Gentiles (Blacks). The rest of his membership is made up of Israelitish peoples (whites). Thiel admits that he has only between 100-200 Israelitish members. That number has dropped from the 300 he has been claiming.
Like the Great Bwana, some of his African leaders have been having "visions/dreams" that have great spiritual significance.
Apparently, we are all supposed to stand back in awe at these dreamy episodes as "god" given. A white cloth came down from heaven just like it did for Paul, except in Keya where God apparently has no ability to lead people into the improperly named "continuing" Church of God.
Evangelist Evans Ochieng of the Continuing Church of God has made several trips to Malawi and Mozambique over the years. And from the USA, Terry Nelson and his sons have also been able to have two trips to that area. When I was last in Africa, I met with leaders from across Africa, including some from Malawi and Mozambique and have been involved with ordinations there.
That being said, last month, after having a vision-dream that reminded him of an earlier vision-dream he had originally dismissed...
Greetings from kenya. Pastor there is something that I didn’t tell you when I was joining continuing church of God. I didn’t say it because I thought it was just a dream. When I was joining continuing church of God, I saw a small white handkerchief. It was very white and in in it was written continuing church of God. When I was still looking it, it enlarged till become bigger. Then I woke up. I thought it was a dream. Then recently I saw the same handkerchief standing in Malawi just the same I saw it in kenya. The same size and enlarged like before. After a short time I saw if I was baptizing so many people in Malawi. After that I heard a voice telling me that you are a loved man.
The reason why I knew that it was a vision, you know very well that when I was joining CCOG, I came out one person and as I continue talking with people about CCOG, the church continues to grow very fast and right now, the church has expanded highly. Not because of my strength or any strength from a man but from GOD. I’m saying this because all people who God call in CCOG are working tirelessly to preach the gospel. I can see the work which is going on in rift valley, in kisii and in Nyanza, Pastors are really working. So what I saw about that handkerchief is the same to what I saw in kenya. The only different is, when I saw it in kenya, I didn’t see that I’m baptizing many people. And voice I didn’t here. Now if I saw it in Malawi and the kind of baptism I saw , tells me clearly that it is a vision. That is the reason why I want go to Malawi for almost one month preaching and visitation. Evans
Bwana Bob continues on:
"Several African reports are in this Letter which point to the Continuing Church of God having success reaching Gentiles there..."
"The New Testament teaches that the “full number” of the Gentiles are prophesied to come in before Jesus returns and we have seen growth in Gentile congregants in Asia (India and the Philippines), Africa and other places. Furthermore, our upcoming radio broadcast out of Italy should help us reach more European Gentiles (as well as some Israelites) starting next month."
Bwana Bob's followers in Africa are only following the leaders of their churches as they church hop from one organization after another. These leaders tell them what to do and they do it. Bwana Bob's attendance figures are just as suspect as Wade Cox's millions of African members.
"As far as reaching those of Israelitish descended backgrounds, most of our video views come from them...and most of the multiple millions of computers our online campaigns reach are also those with Israelite heritage..."
"Because of obeying Jesus’ commands to go to all nations, along with God’s blessings, the CCOG has been the fastest growing x-WCG COG in the 21st century. We have used tithes and offerings to pay for trips, literature, radio, videos, internet support, online campaigns, visits, building materials, youth camps, festival assistance, equipment, seeds, work projects, and other things to reach people around the world, and including the Gentiles and Israelites (cf. Letter to the Brethren: January 20, 2022)."
No other Church of God in human history is as magnificent as Bwana Bob's group. Everyone else are just impotent little groups led by impotent little me while the Great Bwana pounds his massive chest declaring his greatness.
The Great Bwana then goes on to declare that this is all possible because he is sowing good fruit, unlike all the other COG's
We have also added more congregants without a prior WCG-related background than any other Church of God who leaders had ties to the old WCG than any we are aware of.
Why mention that?
Because Jesus said:
18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. (Matthew 7:18-20)
According to Scripture, even the demons believe and shudder, so the "fruits" of the improperly named "continuing" Church of God leave a lot to be desired.
Also, Jesus is apparently waiting around heaven for Bwana Bob to get this message spread around the world, and THEN, and only THE will JC return.
Jesus taught that the end does NOT come until the ‘Gospel of the Kingdom of God‘ reaches enough nations (Matthew 24:14) and, based on Paul’s writings, we also see that “the full number” (as the NIV, NLT, BSB, CEV, GNT, HCSV, ISV, and NET Bible, put Romans 11:25) of Gentiles is something God wants in this age come in. This is something that must be done and we in the CCOG have a lot of fruits related to that.
Although God is the one who calls (cf. John 6:44), we in the CCOG seem to be having major success in assisting with getting the message out to many that are responding to God’s calling.
Dream on Buckwheat, dream on.
It seems like never before in Church of God history have so few reached so many with so little resources. God has blessed the tithes and offerings we have received to give a witness to multiple millions around the world.
Christians have been doing this way longer than Bwana Bob has, so there is nothing special about his message.
Do you have eyes to see and ears to hear the great message of Bwana Bob? Your salvation may depend upon it...NOT!
We have been reaching people around the world and have the fruits, consistent with those Jesus said to look for, and the signs the New Testament says would be around in the last days.
Do you have eyes to see and ears to hear?
Because the Great Bwana continues to ignore the one he is supposed to be following he is blind to the following:
36 comments:
Funny because THIEL is a German name, which (according to Bobby) would make him an Assyrian, and thus also a GENTILE!
Tonto, Bob has stated that he is a Gentile. I believe he claimed to have Native American ancestry...
"Bob has stated that he is a Gentile. I believe he claimed to have Native American ancestry..."
That's hilarious! Bob is no more Native American than he is a prophet or a real COG leader
Tonto, Bob has stated that he is a Gentile. I believe he claimed to have Native American ancestry...
He seemed to have started saying that soon after hearing Rod Meredith mention his own Cherokee ancestry.
This is an example as to how all indoctrinated in the parlance of Armstrongism were trained to speak from a Hebrew-centric perspective. Even someome self-identifying as a "gentile prophet" feels compelled to preserve related shibboleths! It is part of the arcane jargon by which we can instantly identify Armstrongites, even today.
I seriously doubt that Jews doing charity work in Africa would even refer to native Africans as being gentiles.
I well remember the joy that many expressed when they followed 'that Prophet' out of the wwcog into the pcog.
And the claims they had the 'two witnesses'.
And the 'growth' they were having was proof of their 'righteousness' and cause.
Now pcog is but a shadow of its former self and declining yearly and rapidly, as are the 'other' Armstrong groups.
That Bob is jumping for joy will be short lived as reality starts to catch up with him.
His African followers will in time move on, join other groups and the ccog will soon be a mere blip in the history of Christian movements on that continent.
Bobs theology and 'witness' will not stand up under the spotlight of critical examination.
This 'work' is about Bob and any 'growth' is simply a validation of his standing as a 'prophet' and a 'proof' of his credibility in his own eyes.
It follows that this 'work' will go into the decline all the Armstrong cog movements are experiencing today.
Yet Bob will continue to seek that affirmation and credibility he so much desires.
Well, the handkerchief was..........very white.
So if Booby Thiel only has between 100 - 200 Caucasians then he has been deliberately lying to us all by claiming he has 300. I knew something was fishy in Arroyo Grande!
People are always saying that. Then you find them on the internet blowing up DNA testing companies angrily because it didn't show on their test results - either it turned out to be family myth or its too far back in time to register on an autosomal test.
He needs to add about 5000 from India and he will probably have the largest COG out there.
Who is a Gentile and who is not is obscure in Armstrongist anthropology. The criteria used are soft characterstics like surname and appearance. Some people believe that all the White people in the United States are descended from Manasseh. Others believe that just the Northwest Europeans are Manasseh and Americans from other European nations are Gentiles. And who is of Northwest European origin and who is not is dependent on surname mostly.
Complicating this is the fact that Armstrongist seem to not know what a Jew looks like. They think Jews look like the Ashkenazi that they see in the media in the United States. The Ashekenazi are heavily mixed with European ancestry (contrary to the conventional wisdom that the Jews intermarry among themselves and are relatively pure). The Jews who stayed in the Middle East are called Mizrahi Jews and you can find images of them on the internet. Look for Syrian or Yemeni Jews. They are what some Americans would call "people of color." When an Armstrongist sees a picture of a light-skinned Ashekanzi who is 60 percent European, it is not a leap for him to imagine that the British are Hebrews. But that is a leap in the wrong direction.
The droll situation is that many Mestizos (Iberian/Native American mix) throughout the New World are actually part Jewish. The Iberians have long mixed with Jews. Jews have an ancient association with Iberia - the Iberian Peninsula is known as Sepharad and is mentioned in Obadiah. The joke is that the Armstrongists of Gentile Northwest European ancestry regard the Mestizos as Gentiles when the Mestizos at least have a tiny bit of Jewish ancestry stemming from their Iberian roots. Genetic tests given to Mexicans, for instance, will typically turn up a few percentage points of Jewish ancestry.
So when there was a segregated Latin Fun Show on the Big Sandy campus during the Feast of Tabernacles last century, we had the paradoxical situation that the White Fun Show was really Gentile and the Latin Fun Show had an audience with at least some cachet of Judaic background. So people of some Jewish ancestry were segregated out into the cheap seats and Gentiles dominated the best seats. And the White Fun Show and the Black Fun Show were both equally Gentile.
If you don't believe this, you have to take genetic science on and prove it wrong before the entire world. Actually, this should be done before BI can be further preached with any credibility.
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Thiel and Elizabeth Warren must be cousins!
Tonto said, "Thiel and Elizabeth Warren must be cousins!"
MY COMMENT - I was taking a sip of coffee when I read your comment. I spit the coffee out laughing so hard!
Elizabeth Warren has been nicknamed "Pocahantas". Should Bobby Thiel be nicknamed "Chief Sitting Bull?
Richard
Thiel and Elizabeth Warren must be cousins!
Fauxcahontas and Slinging Bull ?
OMG!! Our littlest prophlet of all writes, "most of the multiple millions of COMPUTERS our online campaigns reach..." I literally spit the coffee out of my mouth when I read that gem. Are you now claiming to have converted these millions of computers? Well, the multiple millions of computers reached have a reply for you Bob-uhhhhh..NO! They also have a question for you, oh doubly blessed false prophlet. How is it, that with millions of computers reached, your youtube views never top 150? I would think with millions of converted gentile computers, 100 whites and 7,000 poor Africans that your video sermons would generate a few more views than that!!
Perhaps you should send your multiple millions of converted gentile computers one of those doubly blessed white hankies. The converted gentile computers could use them to wipe the tears from their eyes when you come to visit them! Will you anoint these converted gentile computers too, like you did one guy in Africa so he could, in turn, anoint you greatest, doubly blessed prophlet of all time?
I went back and re-read the letter Rod Meredith sent you, Bob. He said over and over and over again, that NO ONE thought you were a prophlet. I don't know how much clearer he could have been, that he never thought of you or told you that you were a prophlet. None of the other men (Winnail, Fall, Bonjour, et al) believed it either. So good luck with your multiple millions of converted gentile computers! They aren't buying it either!!
The old BI theory that can only be proven with a booklet. Interestingly the bible along can disprove that theory. There is no way on earth a white person could survive being hungry, thirsty, naked, and with a iron yoke around their neck in a hot climate like Egypt for 400 years.
Chief Sitting Bull? Slinging Bull ?
Chief Sh*tting Bull. Or Chief Screaming Chicken (a Batman character played by Edward Everett Horton) Or Ruffled Feather (a character from the cartoon Go Go Gophers).
The essence of a successful ministry is credibility. All factors considered, the more credible and sincere a minister appears as being, the more followers he (or she) will have. That's the personality aspect of it. As we all know, there are personality cults, so the credibility of the message must also come into play. There are total misfits, who are unaware of social cues, but are followed because their message has credibility with either a particular social stratum, or a broad cross section of the general population. Complicating matters even further, there are those who have mastered the art of faking sincerity, those who cover their inadequacies by strongly asserting their authority, but also those whose personalities cause people to react in sympathy.
Herbert Armstrong spoke with an aura of authority, his end times message was credible in the aftermath of WW-II and the development of nuclear weapons, he was plugged into the new technologies of radio, television, and he had substance in the form of a college, and later three colleges. Whether genuine or not, he came off as being sincere and substantive.
How does one achieve on this level with HWA's message today? There are perhaps a dozen existential threats as compared to just the bomb. People have become accustomed to living fairly normal lives, fully knowing that these threats are always percolating in the background. And, there are very charismatic deniers of these threats (I call them flat earthers) whom many people trust more than an evangelist, "apostle", or "prophet". The internet, and "going viral" are tickets to large followings, but most who use the internet are more like "indie rock" which has very limited following. The summary is that there is nobody in any of the ACOGs today with a modernized skill set equivalent to that of HWA during his era. There are pretenders to that throne, and granted, HWA's message was clearly time and date stamped, but not a single individual has emerged in all of COGdom, who could pick up and carry the mantle. The person who came closest to this was GTA, and had he managed to curb his appetites for self-destruction, update the message, while continuing to have his father's blessing, who knows where these churches might have gone? The movement failed along with GTA. There was no plan B, or replacement, It was all building towards a crescendo, and it collapsed.
What about God? If the Armstrong movement had been of God, wouldn't He have seen to it that the message continued to go out in power? God could have easily called an individual with greater skills than HWA to continue "the work". He did not! Someone back in the early 2000's opined that it appeared as if the splinters had literally and figuratively been spewed from the mouth of God! Hard to argue with that, considering what we've witnessed since.
These despotic leaders who are oppressing you ACOG members have no mantle, no authority over you! If they did, their works would he taking Armstrongism to the next level, rather than into contraction and decay! Why do you continue to support them and to allow them to abuse you financially and otherwise? Although HWA may have gotten certain things right, I believe that the pronouncements of Gamaliel have proven true! Prove me wrong! Show me how and why what I have just stated is not true. And I'm not inviting you to invoke all of the old Armstrongite cliches! Keep it real! Make all of us believe your proofs. If you can.
"Hello, I'd like to speak to the manager of Egypt."
DW got it partly wrong when he wrote:
I went back and re-read the letter Rod Meredith sent you, Bob. He said over and over and over again, that NO ONE thought you were a prophlet. I don't know how much clearer he could have been, that he never thought of you or told you that you were a prophlet. None of the other men (Winnail, Fall, Bonjour, et al) believed it either.
For more than a decade, Rod Meredith bent over backwards not to offend one of his biggest donors. Bob just would never take "No" for an answer, so Rod and some of the others left Bob feeling validated. For example, there are several witnesses to Rod telling Bob, "Bob, you may someday be recognized as a prophet." That was a big mistake. Rod meant what he said in the same way that someone might say, "Bob, you may someday be recognized as a prophet, and monkeys may fly out of my butt!" But Bob heard it as if Rod were saying, "You're an unrecognized prophet today, and may be recognized someday." It is revisionist history to deny that Rod didn't feed Bob's ego and contribute to his mistaken self-estimation.
Anon 1:10 Have you never been to Australia?????????????
Heh, well, if you take Mississippi's Declaration of Secession as evidence, 1:10 isn't wrong. But I think Mississippi's elite were just being whiny.
Anonymous 1:10 wrote, "Interestingly the bible along (sic) can disprove that theory."
I know of of only one place where the Bible alone casts explicit and serious doubt on BI. In Acts 21:38, a Roman centurion mistakes Paul, who is a Benjamite, for an Egyptian. The centurion knows nothing of Paul's background so the misidentification is based on appearance. So google Egyptian on the internet and look at the images of modern Egyptians. Look at pictures of ancient Egyptian murals to get an idea of what Egyptians looked like long ago. Consistently, they are darkly pigmented people with curly or very curly hair. Yet Armstrongism asserts that the tribe of Benjamin settled in Norway and are the modern Norwegians. There is no way that a centurion, familiar with people of different nations in Europe and the Middle East, is going to address a man who looks like a Northman and ask him if he is an Egyptian.
Paul was a Benjamite and was darkly pigmented with curly or very curly hair. He looked that way because Benjamites looked that way. Benjamites were Middle Eastern Hebrews. Look at the Mizrahi Jews or Bedouins.
While BI fans might argue similarity in names like Hoeh did or other pretexts, the fact is that the science of genetics backs the normative understanding of the account in Acts and does not back Armstrongism.
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Similarly, Ephraim and Manasseh's mommy was Egyptian. That makes perfect sense if Egyptians and Israelites looked closely enough alike. It also makes perfect sense that Mary and Joseph were able to "hide" in Egypt, and that Moses so easily became part of the
Egyptian royal family. Israelites were more or less just another branch of the Arabs. There are theories about the Hyksos being Western Semitic, but they were never the majority ethnicity of Egypt.
For better effect, Google the Fayoum mummy portraits that were popular in that era.
Anon 2:34 Notice I said Hungry, Thirsty, NAKED, and a yoke of iron around their neck. I live in a hot climate as well. Heat Index is about 110 degrees. When have you seen white people in this condition? The Sun would be brutal to people with less melanin in their skin. I can tell you a hand full of people from my old Congregation that all has to keep having procedure done to there skins to remove possible cancerous skin. Whites are the most likely to get skin cancer and Blacks are the least likely to get skin cancer out of all races. They all like to be outside longer than they should be. The Church teaches that the key to identity Israel is to look at what nations are being blessed. It's actually the exact opposite. It's really easy to identity Israel IF you believe the bible is the inspired word of the Most High. The key is to look at the what nation is in there curses. Why can't you look at what nations that are in their blessings? Long story short, because when Israel is blessed, they are in the land that was promised to Abraham. When they are cursed, they are scattered amongst the nations, they are removed from the promise land, left few in number, she would sit with a trembling heart, failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind, with her life hanging in doubt before her. When they seek the Most High with all of their heart and soul, The Most High will bring them back to the promised land. (Deut. 30:1-6) What group of people on earth today is scattered in every nation today? What group of people does Duet. 28:15-68 line up with?
Good observation Neo, also look at Acts 13:1. Simeon was a Niger. Look up Niger in the Concordance. It means Black. Add one more G to the word Niger then we get the racist word (No offense against any people of color). Other scriptures, Job 30:30, Song of Solomon 1:5-6 KJV=Black NKJV= Dark, Lam. 4:8, Amos 9:7, Rev. 4:2-3 Look up the color of Jasper and Sardine Stone. There's more scriptures but I'll leave it to that for right now.
Back to BI theory, BI was around before HWA was even born. Do your research about a man named Reuben H. Sawyer. A book called Judah's Scepter and Joseph's Birthright was around before HWA started Radio COG. When Israel was conquered back in 722BC, the Celts were already on the scene. The Celts did NOT go into captivity with Israel. The Celts are Briton aka British. Some great nations/Kingdoms/empires in history are Egypt 1570-1069BCE, Assyria
about 900-600BCE, Babylon 609-539BC, Medes and Persians, Greeks and Macedonians, Roman, Alexander the Great. These were all great nations at one time in history, however, They were NOT the Most High's chosen people. This is why I say you can't say look at the nations that are blessing the world. The bible also says ALL families will be blessed. ALL means ALL. Everyone before us, today, and the future has an opportunity for Salvation. That's the blessing of the whole world is through the Most High's Son.
Back around 70AD, There was the destruction of the Temple. Romans against The Jews. The Jews lost and they lost Jerusalem meaning that ANY nation could occupy Jerusalem. The Jews were pushed to West Africa. The Atlantic Slave trade scattered a group of people around the whole world. They are the Tail and not the head in the nations they now live in.
The whole Sea Gate Theory. You shall NOT add or take away from the Bible. Gen 22:17-18 Does NOT say Sea gate or port. Look up the word Gate in the Concordance. It's used 371 times in the bible. Gate 364 times, City 3 times, Door 2 times, PORT 1 time, Porters 1 time. So one time it's talking about a port. Porters are Gate keepers. Port is used in Neh. 2:13. KJV= Dung Port, NKJV= Dung gate or Refuse gate. Well there's your port. Gate means exactly what it says it means, gate. I believe some other bible translations says city or town but I never saw the word port. Egypt and British, Suez Canal, they were ALLIES. USA and Panama, Panama Canal, they were ALLIES. The bible says posses the gates of your ENEMIES, not allies. Some of Israel enemies at the time were the Canaanites, Perizzites, and Hivites.
I could go on and on about all of this but this is a starting point for why I no longer support or agree with BI theory.
10:19, despite your disclaimer, I can almost see the smile on your face as you provided the lesson in etymology for your last paragraph. You could have made your point without that, and you know it!
Anon 10:20:00 AM PDT
Welcome to the club.
BI is totally untenable.
Period.
Anonymous 10:20 wrote, "The Celts did NOT go into captivity with Israel."
If we are to accept BI, then the Celts who now occupy Britain should have been living in the area of the northern ten tribes before the captivity. Their genetic tag or haplogroup is R1b. R1b is heavily concentrated in the British Isles and is the haplogroup of the Celts and Anglo-Saxons. We can then logically expect that archaeologists will find in the area of nothern ten tribes many burials indicating a concentration of these R1b people. DNA can be extracted from such ancient bones and sequenced. To date, nobody has discovered evidence of a concentration of R1b people anywhere in the ancient past of Palestine. Nobody has ever discovered in pre-722 BCE layers a bunch of burials containing Celts or Anglo-Saxons. Where are these missing British Israelites?
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Sorry, anon 2:17. I posted the last 10:19 and 10:20. It wouldn't let me post the whole thing for some reason. I just get so sick and tired of COG groups that keep pushing this lie around...
(chuckle) I apologize that this is off topic, but a funny thing happened today that I feel like former Armstrong adherents will enjoy:
One of my local news stations posted a graphic at 11am today reading 'HAPPY JUNETEENTH!" and then another at 12p reading "HAPPY FATHER'S DAY!" OK, so both celebrations fell on same day this year. Big deal, right? No, according to one man, it was absolutely intolerable that the Juneteenth graphic was posted just prior to the Fathers Day graphic bevause "fathers are more important, if God hadnt created Adam, there'd be no Juneteenth".
I found this proffered claim funny because by that reasoning, if God had not created Adam, there would be no need for Jesus' birth and resurrection, either - making Father's Day the MOST IMPORTANT HOLIDAY OF THE CHRISTIAN CALENDAR. Forget Christmas, Easter or even the Jewish high days. Father's Day was now the ultimate holiday according to him. It was such a weird line of reasoning that I just had to laugh.
NeoDromos @4:11:00 PM PDT
You are so right.
There is excellent material on YT about early British and European history which is stunning.
BI is in flames and has no credibility except for the Bob Thiel’s of the world and the like.
Anonymous 9:48
I like the mummy portraits. First saw them a few years ago. They are remarkably realistic. And they provide a good view of Greeks and Egyptians at the time. And none of them look like Norwegians.
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That was actually me... for some reason the site farted and made me an Anon. Yeah, aren't they spectacular? A real window into the period. The former Egyptian style of stylized depictions is fascinating, but the mummy portraits convey something more. And not a lot of straight hair depicted.
I posted this on another article but it fits better here:
You never know what is really going on in overseas churches. In Africa, cults have invaded the churches, especially the JW's and the Brahamites. Also, they have a completely different mindset since they are highly infuluenced, to this day, by African Traditional Religions (witchcraft, ancestor worship, etc.) It is very hard for missions in Africa to convey the true gospel. The people they are trying to teach already have a different version of the gospel in their minds, all mixed with the cults and ATRs.
There is a William Branham church near me. They have a disproportionate number of African or African-American members, probably from Africa and they possibly deliberatly came to this area to be near this cult church. They just started building what appears to be a much larger church. I feel for the people who buy into any cult, especially the children. Branham followers believe that Satan had sex with Eve--- and that women are the source of all sin.
https://carm.org/preachers-and-teachers/william-branham/
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