Exposing the underbelly of Armstrongism in all of its wacky glory! Nothing you read here is made up. What you read here is the up to date face of Herbert W Armstrong's legacy. It's the gritty and dirty behind the scenes look at Armstrongism as you have never seen it before!
With all the new crazy self-appointed Chief Overseers, Apostles, Prophets, Pharisees, legalists, and outright liars leading various Churches of God today, it is important to hold these agents of deception accountable.
Herbert Armstrong's Tangled Web of Corrupt Leaders
I will be starting a go-fund-me page for Marc Cebrian. All money raised will go for the purchase of the wildest yellow paint offered so he can RESTORE his little S10 truck back to original.
Great job guys!
*A note for Marc Cebrian* Women are bad, very bad and this is the great resignation - you don't need a job!
Personally, I would not say that someone who lies as much as Dave Pack lies, and who steals as much as Dave Pack steals, and who does all his lying and stealing in God's name, is a “nice” guy. Dave Pack is one of those FALSE prophets that Jesus warned about who come in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ferocious wolves. Dave Pack is working for Satan AGAINST Worldwide Church of God people. Some ENEMIES are openly hostile from the start, while other ENEMIES sneak into one's life by pretending to be nice guys at the start. These FRENEMIES, people who pretend to be friends but are actually enemies, can be some of the the most harmful ENEMIES in the end.
The FALSE prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack that Satan sent AGAINST Worldwide Church of God people have gotten some people so mixed up with their endless lies and nonsense that some clarification is needed here. PCG cult members, and RCG cult members, and others, while thinking that they know more than anyone else, have ended up knowing nothing but new nonsense.
The Elijah
Since all the teachings in the Worldwide Church of God had come through Herbert W. Armstrong, near the end of his life HWA began to suggest that he was the one who was prophesied to come in the spirit and power of Elijah to restore all things. Herbert W. Armstrong believed that there was a duality in prophecy, and that just as John the Baptist had come to prepare the way for Jesus' first coming, HWA had come to prepare the way for Jesus' second coming. Everyone in the WCG appeared to believe this at the time.
After HWA's death, Roderick C. Meredith in his own GCG cult, and later in his own LCG cult, rejected the understanding that HWA was the Elijah. Gerald Flurry in his own PCG cult made a big fuss about HWA being the Elijah, but then soon claimed that everyone also had to believe that Gerald Flurry was what he called “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 (see below). Dave Pack in his own RCG cult had originally written a booklet proving that HWA was the Elijah, but later changed and now is trying to pass off Dave Pack as being the Elijah.
That Prophet
The prophet (called “That Prophet” by the current FALSE prophets Flurry and Pack) mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18-19 was referring to Jesus Christ. Notice that in John 1:45 Philip found Nathaniel and told him, “We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
Nowadays, other people like Gerald Flurry in his own PCG cult and Dave Pack in his own RCG cult are each trying to pass off their own selves as being what they call “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 that everyone is supposed to listen to.
Two Different People
Also, the prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 (Jesus) and the Elijah (HWA) were NOT the same person.
No bombshells, but keeping the heat on reasonably and without hysteria. I'm sure Wadsworth has a much better idea of one of the problems they may need to deal with as a community at some point in the future. Excellent interviews.
What is it with the COG and colors? When I was in the RCG there was an issue with wearing red shirts. But you could wear a red tie. When Dave was asked about this he went on and on about red being the color of Satan and how great the color blue is. Marc, I sure hope you painted your truck blue.
I think that Armstrongist leadership recognizes that there is a buffering effect built into Armstrongist indoctrination and not many followers will be provoked to think by this presentation. The buffering effect is a belief in a transactional relationship with God. The transactional model is based on two ideas: 1) I do what is right and God blesses me and 2) I do what is wrong and God curses me. This model is found in the book of Deuteronomy. But it is effectively countered in Job and Jonah. In Job, God actually voices the counterpoint. Deuteronomy, Job and Jonah, though in tension, are all part of the same OT canon. So the transactional model is not the consistent system presented in the OT at all even though Armstrongism pushes that idea.
How this model works in the case of this presentation is simple. Dennis and Marc mention their difficulties. The normative mind would see these difficulties as natural and transitional and regard Dennis and Marc as being courageous in their journey some better status. The indoctrinated Armstrongist mind will see their difficulties as a curse from God and will conclude that they are both reprobates and any wisdom they have may be safely and righteously ignored. And in doing this the Armstrongists overlook their own incriminating (by their standards) personal afflictions and especially their larger life context of being ensnared by an oppressive cult that deals in false prophecy, heresy and perpetual fund raising.
The presentation was launched well but it will not land well in Armstrongist territory. Just like the January 6 Hearings that will influence centrists, liberals and true conservatives. But will not affect at all the supporters of populism, White Nationalism and autocracy that form The Donald's self-indoctrinated base.
Tonto, being at HQ for so long...I never noticed anyone doing that. I had not heard it spoken about. Maybe it was mentioned in the AC class, but I cannot remember. -- I do know visitors for social events and folks attending for the Feast in Wadsworth were given a lot of leeway with their dress. One man in particular had a light blue turquoise suit he would wear every time he came to town and that was for years. He clearly got away with it for several visits.
But to your point, we know that only God-hating heathens like slip-on shoes. :)
"WATT, Dude! That was so funny. Yes, I lament my non-yellow truck...which I still have.
A 2003 Chevy S-10 with almost 100k miles on it. I worked 1.5 miles from RCG for over 8 years, so I didn't drive much while working there.
I'm glad that was your big takeaway from the interview. :)"
Mark, I am glad you got a little laugh from that and it is a sign that you are healing.
That was indeed my big takeaway from the interview. It has to do with what they (the RCG) take away from you. They took away your little yellow truck just like they took all of our individuality away in every aspect out in the field congregations. I won't go into all the details because you know exactly what I am talking about.
In the end, we both have freedom. That freedom is being separated from the one mind, the same speech, the same judgment and the perfect joining of all that Dave Pack is and he himself.
I am hoping you gain and get to enjoy a restoration like I have. A little yellow truck would sure be a nice start.
WATT said "Mark, I am glad you got a little laugh from that and it is a sign that you are healing."
Dude, I never stopped laughing. I wasn't depressed when I left RCG. I was bummed out...it was not my desired choice...but I was not DEPRESSED. After I left, I was waiting for the anger and bitterness to start seeping to the surface and it just never has. The most emotional I get about the whole thing is when I was talked in Part 2 and Part 4 of the interviews. I don't get worked up (angry) when I talk about RCG and what I did there.
Because I did it for God. I gave all my money to God. I volunteered for God. I worked in MPS for God. **I did none of that for David C. Pack.** Maybe that's why I'm not all pissy about it today. Or about him. What is God's path for me today? I have no idea. So, in that way...I'm a bit lost...floating around and figuring out where my place is going to be from now on.
I had to come to peace with the fact that I will not ever again have my cool yellow truck back. Every time a mechanic asks me if I had it painted, I cringe and have to hem and haw about "yellow is too loud for Ohio" - but other than that, emotionally...I'm okay.
I can't believe that Dave's offense threshhold is so low that he would even comment about a yellow truck! If you had a custom paint job with flames covering the hood and going down the sides of the front fenders, I can understand him raising an eyebrow, maybe.
Glad I never worked for him. He'd probably have a heart attack if he saw my red Harley in his parking lot and heard the pipes when I fired it up!
Hey Dawn, your digital noise reduction is set wrong. If you are in a quiet room you don't need that. I sometimes wonder about that. Nice job Dawn. I take it this is a local cable TV community channel, which also streams? I by no means have turned against the COG concept. I am on guard against asinine individual ministers from my past. Interesting, HWA DID prepare the world for Christ's coming. Look how common it is for people to be aware of such a thing as the end times. Gerard Flurry is not false. He is preparing a throne, the old temple of David is being excavated in Jerusalem.
20 comments:
Is there a WATTS line to donate to? Operators standing by?? A P.O Box to mail to??
You guys didnt say "Good Bye Friends" at the end though! LOL!
Fantastic. I am almost inspired to start writing again.
I will be starting a go-fund-me page for Marc Cebrian. All money raised will go for the purchase of the wildest yellow paint offered so he can RESTORE his little S10 truck back to original.
Great job guys!
*A note for Marc Cebrian* Women are bad, very bad and this is the great resignation - you don't need a job!
Personally, I would not say that someone who lies as much as Dave Pack lies, and who steals as much as Dave Pack steals, and who does all his lying and stealing in God's name, is a “nice” guy. Dave Pack is one of those FALSE prophets that Jesus warned about who come in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ferocious wolves. Dave Pack is working for Satan AGAINST Worldwide Church of God people. Some ENEMIES are openly hostile from the start, while other ENEMIES sneak into one's life by pretending to be nice guys at the start. These FRENEMIES, people who pretend to be friends but are actually enemies, can be some of the the most harmful ENEMIES in the end.
CLARIFICATION
The FALSE prophets like Gerald Flurry and David Pack that Satan sent AGAINST Worldwide Church of God people have gotten some people so mixed up with their endless lies and nonsense that some clarification is needed here. PCG cult members, and RCG cult members, and others, while thinking that they know more than anyone else, have ended up knowing nothing but new nonsense.
The Elijah
Since all the teachings in the Worldwide Church of God had come through Herbert W. Armstrong, near the end of his life HWA began to suggest that he was the one who was prophesied to come in the spirit and power of Elijah to restore all things. Herbert W. Armstrong believed that there was a duality in prophecy, and that just as John the Baptist had come to prepare the way for Jesus' first coming, HWA had come to prepare the way for Jesus' second coming. Everyone in the WCG appeared to believe this at the time.
After HWA's death, Roderick C. Meredith in his own GCG cult, and later in his own LCG cult, rejected the understanding that HWA was the Elijah. Gerald Flurry in his own PCG cult made a big fuss about HWA being the Elijah, but then soon claimed that everyone also had to believe that Gerald Flurry was what he called “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 (see below). Dave Pack in his own RCG cult had originally written a booklet proving that HWA was the Elijah, but later changed and now is trying to pass off Dave Pack as being the Elijah.
That Prophet
The prophet (called “That Prophet” by the current FALSE prophets Flurry and Pack) mentioned in Deuteronomy 18:18-19 was referring to Jesus Christ. Notice that in John 1:45 Philip found Nathaniel and told him, “We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.”
Nowadays, other people like Gerald Flurry in his own PCG cult and Dave Pack in his own RCG cult are each trying to pass off their own selves as being what they call “That Prophet” of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 that everyone is supposed to listen to.
Two Different People
Also, the prophet of Deuteronomy 18:18-19 (Jesus) and the Elijah (HWA) were NOT the same person.
No bombshells, but keeping the heat on reasonably and without hysteria. I'm sure Wadsworth has a much better idea of one of the problems they may need to deal with as a community at some point in the future. Excellent interviews.
Strong emphasis on the 'almost'.
WATT, Dude! That was so funny. Yes, I lament my non-yellow truck...which I still have.
A 2003 Chevy S-10 with almost 100k miles on it. I worked 1.5 miles from RCG for over 8 years, so I didn't drive much while working there.
I'm glad that was your big takeaway from the interview. :)
PS - Sorry for the "no bombshells" but I choose to not "hit below the belt"
What is it with the COG and colors? When I was in the RCG there was an issue with wearing red shirts. But you could wear a red tie. When Dave was asked about this he went on and on about red being the color of Satan and how great the color blue is. Marc, I sure hope you painted your truck blue.
Its Wednesday and yet another no show ...
I wonder if the "math" Dave is using to announce these dates of Christ's return coincide with his ability to pay the mortgages on the compound?
I think that Armstrongist leadership recognizes that there is a buffering effect built into Armstrongist indoctrination and not many followers will be provoked to think by this presentation. The buffering effect is a belief in a transactional relationship with God. The transactional model is based on two ideas: 1) I do what is right and God blesses me and 2) I do what is wrong and God curses me. This model is found in the book of Deuteronomy. But it is effectively countered in Job and Jonah. In Job, God actually voices the counterpoint. Deuteronomy, Job and Jonah, though in tension, are all part of the same OT canon. So the transactional model is not the consistent system presented in the OT at all even though Armstrongism pushes that idea.
How this model works in the case of this presentation is simple. Dennis and Marc mention their difficulties. The normative mind would see these difficulties as natural and transitional and regard Dennis and Marc as being courageous in their journey some better status. The indoctrinated Armstrongist mind will see their difficulties as a curse from God and will conclude that they are both reprobates and any wisdom they have may be safely and righteously ignored. And in doing this the Armstrongists overlook their own incriminating (by their standards) personal afflictions and especially their larger life context of being ensnared by an oppressive cult that deals in false prophecy, heresy and perpetual fund raising.
The presentation was launched well but it will not land well in Armstrongist territory. Just like the January 6 Hearings that will influence centrists, liberals and true conservatives. But will not affect at all the supporters of populism, White Nationalism and autocracy that form The Donald's self-indoctrinated base.
******** Click on my icon for Disclaimer
Does Dave still enforce the concept that you cant wear slip on shoes to church, that they must be LACED shoes?
Tonto, being at HQ for so long...I never noticed anyone doing that. I had not heard it spoken about. Maybe it was mentioned in the AC class, but I cannot remember. -- I do know visitors for social events and folks attending for the Feast in Wadsworth were given a lot of leeway with their dress. One man in particular had a light blue turquoise suit he would wear every time he came to town and that was for years. He clearly got away with it for several visits.
But to your point, we know that only God-hating heathens like slip-on shoes. :)
"Does Dave still enforce the concept that you cant wear slip on shoes to church, that they must be LACED shoes?"
Two places I found slipon shoes had an advantage: airport security and Passover footwashing
Okay, a third, from experience, when entering a traditional "take off your shoes when you enter" residence.
"WATT, Dude! That was so funny. Yes, I lament my non-yellow truck...which I still have.
A 2003 Chevy S-10 with almost 100k miles on it. I worked 1.5 miles from RCG for over 8 years, so I didn't drive much while working there.
I'm glad that was your big takeaway from the interview. :)"
Mark, I am glad you got a little laugh from that and it is a sign that you are healing.
That was indeed my big takeaway from the interview. It has to do with what they (the RCG) take away from you. They took away your little yellow truck just like they took all of our individuality away in every aspect out in the field congregations. I won't go into all the details because you know exactly what I am talking about.
In the end, we both have freedom. That freedom is being separated from the one mind, the same speech, the same judgment and the perfect joining of all that Dave Pack is and he himself.
I am hoping you gain and get to enjoy a restoration like I have. A little yellow truck would sure be a nice start.
WATT said "Mark, I am glad you got a little laugh from that and it is a sign that you are healing."
Dude, I never stopped laughing. I wasn't depressed when I left RCG. I was bummed out...it was not my desired choice...but I was not DEPRESSED. After I left, I was waiting for the anger and bitterness to start seeping to the surface and it just never has. The most emotional I get about the whole thing is when I was talked in Part 2 and Part 4 of the interviews. I don't get worked up (angry) when I talk about RCG and what I did there.
Because I did it for God. I gave all my money to God. I volunteered for God. I worked in MPS for God. **I did none of that for David C. Pack.** Maybe that's why I'm not all pissy about it today. Or about him. What is God's path for me today? I have no idea. So, in that way...I'm a bit lost...floating around and figuring out where my place is going to be from now on.
I had to come to peace with the fact that I will not ever again have my cool yellow truck back. Every time a mechanic asks me if I had it painted, I cringe and have to hem and haw about "yellow is too loud for Ohio" - but other than that, emotionally...I'm okay.
:)
Thank you for sharing your experiences, Marc and Dennis!
I can't believe that Dave's offense threshhold is so low that he would even comment about a yellow truck! If you had a custom paint job with flames covering the hood and going down the sides of the front fenders, I can understand him raising an eyebrow, maybe.
Glad I never worked for him. He'd probably have a heart attack if he saw my red Harley in his parking lot and heard the pipes when I fired it up!
Hey Dawn, your digital noise reduction is set wrong. If you are in a quiet room you don't need that. I sometimes wonder about that. Nice job Dawn.
I take it this is a local cable TV community channel, which also streams?
I by no means have turned against the COG concept. I am on guard against asinine individual ministers from my past.
Interesting, HWA DID prepare the world for Christ's coming. Look how common it is for people to be aware of such a thing as the end times. Gerard Flurry is not false. He is preparing a throne, the old temple of David is being excavated in Jerusalem.
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