There are two subjects that Armstrongism has a deep fascination with. Both have become 100% factual beliefs/doctrines for many church leaders and members. These are British Israelism and the Petra/Place of Safety doctrine.
Ever since Loma whispered into Herbert's ear that Petra was the place to be, the church has placed a heavy emphasis on it. The weird thing is, there for a while, there was a concerted effort to claim that the church never taught such a thing. Embarrassed by the Peoples Temple suicides and the craziness of certain Church of God members, they tried to circle the wagons and claim that it was only speculation. That was an absolute lie that some still try and gaslight church members with.
I remember at a combined Holy Day service with the Dayton and Columbus churches around 1969/70 the minister telling those in attendance that day to make sure they returned back from the noon meal by a specific time because the doors to the auditorium were going to be locked and no one could enter after that point. He said they had important information to share from Pasadena (has had just returned from Pasadena).
Everyone was back in their seats early as a hush fell over the room. On the stage, he had a large green chalkboard similar to those used in classrooms. On it, he proceeded to draw out a calendar with dates for the specific time that would come when the church would be fleeing to Petra. Women were even encouraged to not get pregnant anytime before the date. My mother faithfully copied this crap and taped it up inside her cupboard in the kitchen. We were warned to not let this calendar be visible to unconverted neighbors and family members so that we did not stir up suspicion.
As the days went by my mother was faithful marking the days as they inched closer and closer to the time we were to flee. There were even small suitcases packed with essentials ready to grab at a moment's notice.
When you're a child and hear this disgusting shit it messes with your mind. The first thing that crosses your mind when you get home and your mother is not around is that she fled without you because you were not good enough to be chosen by God to go. This is the kind of filth the church relished controlling members within the 1960s.
The Peoples Temple suicides and the Heaven's Gate suicides came and went and the church breathed a sigh of relief because they were always on guard for guilt by association.
The 1980s hit and the church was going overboard in representing itself as a normal church doing normal things filled with normal people. AICF dumped hundreds of millions of dollars into concerts, members joined local civic organizations, charitable donations were made to local organizations, and much more. More and more ministers refused to teach the Petra doctrines and it seemed to disappear. Every once in a while the "place of safety" crapola was preached about, but those days seem to be few.
Then, the so-called great apostasy happened and the shit hit the fan. Long-held doctrines and silly beliefs that the church reveled in the 1950s-early 70s all the sudden were popular again as hundreds of splinter groups broke off claiming to restore the faith once delivered and that included the many bizarre teachings the church specifically had. Petra popped back up big time with many of these splinter groups as they saw the so-called great apostasy as a sure sign of the end times. Almost every single group resurrected the idea and has been reinforcing it to this day.
Various ones in the church who thought they knew more than Herbert, claimed that Petra just might not be that place. It could be in various spots in Jordan besides Petra. The raving legalist James Malm declared that it was Pella where everyone would end up. Wait, scratch that, not everyone, but he highly selected FEW that were adherents to his bizarre form of legalism would be there. Then our most highly respected Great Bwana to Africa Bob Mzungu Thiel started running off at the mouth about Petra and other locations he claims his followers would go to for their final indoctrination camp.
The other day the Great Bwana Mzungu declared that Petra MIGHT NOT be the place of safety but another location.
Where might the place of safety in the wilderness be?
Many have wondered if Petra could be the place.
What if is it not?
Someone asked me about the possibility of Bozrah being the “place of safety.”
Someone is always asking him something. That is a common cop-out that COG leaders use to get their own opinions across as truth. The chances of anyone asking Bwana Bob Mzungu this is slim to none, but this is The Bob speaking and we all know what that means.
Never one to entertain an original thought in his own head, he immediately started searching for things to copy and paste that bolster his arguments.
This time he found Tim McHyde to back him up.
Objections and Questions Answered
Now you probably have the following questions:
- Q. What about Bozrah?
- A. Like Petra, Bozrah is part of Jordan, so what I’m saying here does not negate those theories completely, just expands them to the whole truth).
- Q. Isn’t Jordan a Muslim country? What about the Jordanians there?
- A. Jordan will be evacuated after the country is laid waste in the attack against Israel.
- Q. Will we need passports?
- A. Things will be normal when we leave, pre-Wormwood and therefore passports will be needed.
- Q. How do we know when it’s time to go?
- A. God must send some prophet since no man knows the day or hour.
- Q. How much time do we have?
- A. I think we won’t see the prophet until the 2020s at the earliest. https://escapeallthesethings.com/petra-bible-prophecy/
The Great Bwana Mzungu adds:
While I do agree, based upon many scriptures, that Jordan seems to be the place and God will likely use a prophet to say when (and where), I disagree with the author’s view on many points–Jordan, to cite one example, will NOT be evacuated. But I do agree that Revelation 12:14-16 is talking about protection for faithful Christians and NOT physical Israel. As far as the old Worldwide Church of God goes, it speculated, but did not insist, on Petra being the place.
Petra is large enough for the Philadelphian Christians to be protected–and they are the ONLY Christians promised protection from the Beast (cf. Revelation 3:7-10)–most Christians will NOT be protected (cf. Revelation 12:14-17).
Who are the "Philadelphia" Christians? Only those who are part of the one true church, the improperly named "continuing" Church of "god", of course.
God forbid if any heathen Sunday worshiping Christians might show up at these places and interfere with Bwana Bob Mzungu's teachings!
It is the eagles wings (cf. Revelation 12:14) and the idea the the most faithful are God’s sheep (cf. Psalm 95:7; 100:3; John 10) that get some to wonder about Bozrah.
Anyway, Bozrah is in the right general direction. But, since this seems to mainly be a prophecy for Edom, it is not clear it is related to the place of protection for the Philadelphians in the wilderness. However, if the Turks were to turn against God’s protected people, then this could be the place where the Turks (Edom in various prophecies) and/or Jordanians (as some Edomites are likely there) are destroyed (cf. also Obadiah). The Philadelphians are the most faithful remnant of spiritual Israel (cf. Romans 2:28-29; Revelation 3:9)–so we will see about Bozrah. Now, because of how the Turks are expected to betray the physical nation of Israel (and perhaps also the faithful Christians), God has a special punishment.
The Great Bwana Mzungu then drags in dead Herbert to justify the claim that Herbert and he might have different thoughts about Petra. Though the quote by HWA is a gaslighting lie because he spoke about Petra from the stage of the Auditorium countless times as fact...until Jim Jones came on the scene.
Now, I have long wondered if Petra would be the actual place.
The late Pastor General of the old Worldwide Church of God, Herbert W. Armstrong, wrote:
Incidentally, I know many of you seem to have your hearts set on going very soon to Petra as “the place of safety” during the soon-coming Great Tribulation. Well, GET YOUR MINDS OFF PETRA. Brethren, I HAVE NEVER said that Petra definitely is the place of protection where God will take us. I HOPE IT IS NOT! One reason it could be the place is that it is a place NOBODY ELSE WOULD WANT TO GO. It would be the most UNpleasant, UNcomfortable, miserable place you could go! There is nothing to be desired there. But, just in case, God HAS miraculously given me very gracious favor in the eyes of King Hussein and also his brother, the Crown Prince. They are very friendly to me personally (Letter, July 16, 1982).
It was widely spoken about in Pasadena that because of this direct relationship with King Hussein that the church would be able to gain special favor with the King as we attempted to enter the country en masse.
Bwana Mzungu continues:
There are local reasons to consider that carved part of Petra may not the be place.
Realize that Petra is one of the leading, if not THE leading, tourist destination in Jordan, hence there could be economic and other factors against that precise location itself (though if only a small amount of Christians flee, that might be tolerable, and even helpful to, the tourist industry possibly as a ‘side-show’ or to be of cultural or prophetic interest). Other than the aspect of caves (which does not mention the amount of caves), it should be noted, that many other areas in Jordan also are in the right direction and fit the description of the place–so it is possible that the Church may flee into Jordan and not stay in Petra, but somewhere else in Jordan or a neighboring area.
It is also possible that the true Philadelphian Christians will stay in Petra for a time and then go elsewhere–and that is something I have written about before.
None of these dimwitted church leaders ever considered the impact of tens of thousands of Church of God members arriving in Jordan/Petra might me. The hundreds of commercial flights into the country. rental cars and busses to transport the people. Food, clothing, shelter for everyone, etc. It is a logistical nightmare that COPG folk imagine will happen on the spur of the moment. In reality, it would take many years to get all of this organized and go through proper diplomatic channels with passports, etc to get people into the country. But of course, there is always the magical god that will rapture everyone on eagle wings to Petra. Instantaneously shelter, food, water, clothing, and all the basic necessities of life will appear in the caves so that church leaders can pass them out to members of the diaspora as they enter the region.
While the battle of Armageddon is taking place in Israel, thousands of Church of God members will be able to fly into Petra or drive in unnoticed by the Beast power and the legions of armies encompassing the area. Of course, as one minister claimed, that magical god was going to place a cloud cover over Petra so that enemy planes could not see what was taking place below.
When I came to Pasadena in 1975 the joke around campus that fall was about a student who earlier that summer had prophesied that the 5 egrets on the David Wynn sculpture in front of the auditorium would come alive. Four of the egrets would grab each corner of the auditorium, pick it up and the fifth egret would lead the way as they flew it to Petra. He actually had several church members believe this crap.
When you read Bwana Bob Mzungu's crap and compare it to this guy's bizarre belief, the chances are far greater for the four egrets to come alive than anything Bwana Bob says will actually happen.
17 comments:
Only false prophets say "what if...."
Gerald Waterhouse, where are you now when Bob Thiel needs you so bad?
A BRIEF HISTORY OF PROPHETIC DATE GUESSES
HWA originally thought that World War II was the end of the world. It was not the end.
In the August 1952 edition of The Plain Truth, HWA claimed that Adolf Hitler had actually escaped to stage a comeback, rather than having committed suicide in his bunker in Berlin, Germany on April 30, 1945. Nothing came of any of this.
Much later, HWA explained in volume 2 of his Autobiography that, “We could not know, then, whether World War II, already under way in Europe, would continue on into Armageddon and the END of the world” (copyright 1987, page 10).
Next, HWA came up with 19-year time cycles leading up to 1972. The WCG was going to flee to a place of safety, which was expected to be Petra, Jordan, on January 7, 1972. Jesus was expected to return 3.5 years later in 1975. None of this happened.
HWA then explained in a January 12, 1972 letter to WCG church members that his 19-year time cycles had actually been fulfilled by the WCG getting to put advertisements in the United States edition of Readers Digest and getting financing for the new Ambassador Auditorium. This all sounded very nice, but was not what people had been waiting for.
HWA said in a January 28, 1979 letter to members and co-workers, “Read Revelation 10:11. This shows that after we thought we had completed the Work, or were to complete it by January, 1972, how God says, 'Thou shalt prophesy (preach) again before many peoples, and nations, and tongues, and KINGS!' Most of the doors to kings and heads of governments have opened since January, 1972.”
After that, the WCG fell back on the idea of 1996 being the end of 6,000 years of human history according to Bishop James Usher's numbers. In his last book, called Mystery of the Ages (copyright 1985, page 298), HWA wrote, “And, secondly, to reveal--preserved in writing for us TODAY--what is to happen “in the latter days”--actually within the next two decades--THIS LAST HALF OF THE TWENTIETH CENTURY!” That did not work out either.
RCM later said that Usher's numbers were not exact and that there could be up to 35 years of play in his numbers.
GRF's PCG bought the copyright to Mystery of the Ages and deleted the part on page 298 about the last two decades of the twentieth century. GRF's PCG also produced a piece of literature called, He Was Right: Remembering five decades of accurate forecasting by Herbert W. Armstrong . GRF forbids his followers to read anything that contradicts him.
This article is another reminder that Armstrongism and its splinters are Adventist churches. Baptist minister William Miller and his mostly Methodist members believed that the end would come in 1844. This never happened, but his followers realized that by claiming that the end is "only 3 to 4 short years from now," one could terrorise members out of their God given rights and impose a North Korean type church dictatorship. Hence the name Adventism with its hyper focus on the end times. One such church is the Seventh day Adventist with its HWA type prophet (she used the word "messenger") Ellen G. White. She claimed two thousand visions from God, and after her death, many of her these claims were found to be word for word plagiarism from her private library. She wrote 40 books and five thousand articles. The Wikipedia article about her finishes with the accusation that "Mrs White is a plagiarist, a literary thief," I mention this because of her similarly to HWA, and claims by her followers that many other denominations have copied her writings while hiding it from their followers. It's interesting that she, like HWA, looked down on modern medicine and doctors.
Another Adventist church is the Church of God Seventh day, which HWA was a member of for eleven years, and which gave birth to his WWCG. Adventism also explains why the Jehovah's Witnesses and the original WWCG and its splinters are like brother and sister.
I did the math (seriously!)...
144,000 people, each of which would consume 1 roll of toilet paper per week, for 3.5 years, would require a freight train of over 140 large box cars.
Fortunately for Petra, it is serviced by several pizza delivery companies, so we should all do fine! https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurants-g318895-c31-Petra_Wadi_Musa_Ma_an_Governorate.html
It is interesting how, in the field of prophecy, ideas come and go. Following the rebirth of Israel as a nation, the theory became popular that it was the sign or event which was prophesied by Jesus in His Olivet Prophecy as the trigger for the end, and in its latest interpretation, that the baby boomers were the generation which would not pass prior to His return. The word "generation" was defined in many ways over the years, in an effort to make it fit.
HWA also stated that the Temple in Israel had to be rebuilt prior to the end, and he patted his own church figuratively on the back for participating in the archaeological dig which he described as preparing for the rebuilding of the Temple. He consistently bought into the "6 days for man" extrabiblical theory, tempered by "a thousand years is as a day for God", and his teaching on the Millennium being the sabbath of the metaphor.
All these things point to a man who was trying to figure things out on his own, as opposed to being the special person to whom God was revealing the truth about the end times. He pointed to his church's obedience to picked and chosen laws from the Torah as being why God was blessing himself and the church with the correct understanding of the end times, and ended up destroying the credibility of his prophecy and his church's doctrinal package as well! If he had the correct formula or package, would it not have followed that God would have blessed him with a special understanding of prophecy, or was the very idea or theory of that simply hype and self-promotion as well?
No one ever shared with Gerald Waterhouse that the place of safety was falling out of favor.
It's why I told him to his face that his visits caused me and the congregation more problems with fear and speculations than it was worth. All he said was "Really?" I had determined if his idea that "When Mr Urmstrong tells us to flee...." , I was prepared to tell the congregation we're doing no such thing. Of course, some of the diehards in the congregation were thrilled at GW's visits. I was never one of them.
Well Tonto, you seem to forget God will seal the anuses of members just like he did in the Ark. This was from the highly intelligent brain of a Church minister hard at work.
9:44
If I remember right, God was also going to put the animals into a deep hibernation so that they did not need to eat so there would be no need to poop. Imagine all 100 of Bob Thiels Caucasian members being put into hibernation sleep. Who would he have to preach to? The Bedouins? The Falfal Time employees?
Okay time to flee, so what does this look like:
LCG: Flee to Petra
UCG: Caves at Sacromonte
PCG: Flee to Mount of Olives
RCG: Flee to the Smokey Mountains
CGI: We're staying here!!
& the rest of the cogs.............
Who to listen to???
Get ready: no electricity, no phones, television (network contract for gospel programs), no cars.......
Getting tired of 6000 year theories? Maybe next year the theory goes..........
1656 years from creation to the flood
427 years from the flood to Abraham leaving Haran
400 years from Abraham leaving Haran to the exodus
480 years-1Kings 6:1
429 years-remaining kings' reigns of Judah to 585 BC
2608 years-585 BC to 2024 AD
The flight to the POS is linked to the Tribulation. Jesus spoke of only one Tribulation but in order to analyze what Armstrongists think, let’s pretend that there is a Tribulation 1 and a Tribulation 2. Tribulation 1 happened in 70 AD and Tribulation 2 is supposed to happen in the future. Tribulation 2 is kind of a figment. It is hard to figure out where it came from in scripture. It seems to be connected to the hermeneutic principle of type-antitype. And then there is some presumptive arithmetic that can be recruited to support various ideas.
I do not believe that Tribulation 2 really exists in scripture nor the accompanying flight to the POS. Some of the Christian End-timers are no better off than the Armstrongists. I scanned a webpage on an Evangelical website that asserted idea of the future Tribulation 2. And they had no Tribulation 1 in the picture at all. It was as if that the 70 AD events did not rise to the level of a good, solid Tribulation. So, it had to be yet on its way.
The time of Jacob’s Trouble has already happened. It does not pertain to the future of Gentiles (the genetics doesn’t lie) living in North America and Britain. Armstrongists are waiting for something that is never going to happen as they have conceived it – like seasoned Millerites. See the following link:
https://armstrongismlibrary.blogspot.com/2022/04/why-i-do-not-believe-in-end-time.html
Scout
Anything that Bob Thiel is connected to means that God's word says the opposite. No COG member should ever trust him with their salvation or for some secret warning on when to flee. Why do so many in the church continue to follow such mentally ill men?
I can remember hearing several sermons in the late 70's and early 80's about a new Place of Safety. I can't remember if it was the same minister or several talking about this 'new' location.
At one stage we (the Australian and NZ members) were getting the idea that because Petra was now out of favour it was either decided or being considered that Gunsu (near the Mongolian border) in North West China was the new go to Place of Safety.
I have no idea of the final outcome to this idea as I had reached my late teens by then and left the church.
Obviously it either fell out of favour or it was just an Australian and NZ thing/idea.
I know we (the Australian members) caused alot of 'problems' for Herbie and his team during the '70's and 80's going by many of the targeted sermon topics directed to us.
See, now there's the advantage of going with Bob Thiel. If the place of safety is in Africa, Bob's Christian witch doctors can cast a spell so that the Germans can't see the CCoG members, they're completely invisible to the German eye!
ooh clever
Scout,
You may be on to something. Because prophecy could be here a little, there a little. Things may have already taken place, and then something else may come later. Things may not happen say like in chronological order. Events may happen or have happen the way a prophetic book has been written in the Bible. And the COGs may be looking a physical thing and it could have been something else altogether.
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