From a reader:
I am a former COG member and I have had many horrible experiences in the COG. I'm not sure if you are familiar with the murder of Amy Allwine. Her husband, Stephen Allwine murdered her and was a UCG minister at the time.UCG released a very sick-in-the-head article in 2018 entitled "Verdict Reached in Trial of Stephen Allwine" on Feb 1 2018 saying not to judge Stephen Allwine on the murder of his wife.
Here is an important point: while we certainly respect the verdict, at the same time we personally are not to sit in judgment. As Jesus Himself instructs us, “Judge not, that you be not judged” (Matthew 7:1). Jesus also tells us that “there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, nor hidden that will not be known” (Luke 12:2). We can have confidence that our all-knowing God is aware of all aspects regarding this tragic situation. We need to remember what James, the brother of Jesus, writes to us from a spiritual perspective: “Mercy triumphs over judgment” (James 2:13). As a result, we will not be making speculative comments about the verdict.
As noted, the details of the murder are terrible. Coupled with the fact that Mr. Allwine was technically a lay (unpaid) minister at the time of Amy’s death, this has made for heightened media coverage—which we expect will continue in some form. Regarding his status, it is important to know that during the police investigation Mr. Allwine publicly admitted to conduct that violated the established ethics policy for ministers of the United Church of God, an International Association. As a result, and given the policy’s zero-tolerance application of that policy, the Council of Elders removed him from the ministry in 2017. While that action has been appropriately taken, I do encourage all of us to continue praying to our almighty God for direction and comfort for all parties.
I posted in rebellion, along with a few others pointing out how disturbing their statement was. In response, I received a message from a member by the name of Richard ________, a UCG member who says that UCG would never condone murder and that I need to repent and learn "forgiveness". Forgiveness for a cold-hearted murderer I'm assuming?
Allwine claims he is the victim:
Convicted ‘Dark Net’ killer claims innocence: ‘I couldn’t have done it’
42 comments:
The Mind Games of Satan's Deceitful Perverts
The UCG is all about welcoming in unrepentant, unconverted, unbelieving perverts and supporting them while kicking out their victims for them. Some of the godless perverts even get newly credentialed as fake UCG “ministers.” Everyone else is supposed to tolerate all the totally godless behavior of the perverts in order to “show love” to them. The UCG early on threw out the idea that keeping God's commandments is showing love and replaced it with some totally different ideas about what “love” is and how to show it.
Those who say any little thing at all about all the ongoing evil and malicious behavior in the UCG get accused of “not showing any love” to anyone and quickly get kicked out. They get told that “the UCG meets in peace.” All the evil behavior gets fully supported and covered up.
The UCG only shows its new ideas about “love” to the worst perverts around. It does not show any love at all of any sort to the victims of the perverts. The unrepentant perverts are always to be quickly and unconditionally forgiven. Their victims who say anything are never forgiven.
The UCG is not the sort of place where you could take any relatives or friends. The outrageously evil behavior in the UCG would be much too embarrassing. Normal, decent people would wonder what is wrong with all the UCG perverts and come away thinking that these are Satan's people.
"Forgiveness for a cold-hearted murderer" certainly is hard to do. Yet Jesus did it as He died, setting the example.
But then again, some COG ministers have said through the years that you shouldn't forgive someone unless that person repents (LUke 17:3). This reader seems to lean in that direction.
The 7:24 comment reminded of Jesus' statement that all flesh would die if the days were not cut short - Mat 24:22. I'm leaning toward this: the appropriate punishment for the murder of the Creator of us would be all flesh should die - Num 35. And that is why the "great tribulation" of Mat 24:21 occurred. In Judea. In the first century. Will not happen again.
Not wanting to say much about this terrible event itself, I am remindef that the ministry were quite comfortable in saying someone was overcome by satan If the individual stopped attending “the church”.
7:24, if the person, whether a believer or not, sins against you, yes, you must forgive whether they are repentant or not; otherwise you carry a grudge, which is a sin. The reason we do this is out of respect for the commandment of God, not for the person.
As for the Allwine case, what a disgrace for all concerned, UCG and the murderer. (Since he admitted to adultery, then that plus the other evidence incriminates him even more) The COGs have been pulling Mt 7:1 out of their back pockets for ages to censure any members who might get the idea to condemn. The man is condemned already! What?? It's OK for the ministry to judge him unfaithful and strip him while the members shouldn't say anything at all? Know ye not that the saints shall judge the world, Paul asks? The congregation is allowed to judge such heinous sins because it has the authority from the Word and the apostles. As for Mt 7:1, this is for anyone who dares judge such a case while being guilty of the same sins (hatred or murderous thoughts) or worse because he brings himself under the same condemnation as Allwine if he opens his mouth.
Again, in regard to a comparable sin, Paul said to the Corinthians, "Do you not judge them that are within?" (1 Cor 5:12) Yes indeed the congregation is allowed to judge such matters, especially if the ministers are in the habit of just turning a blind eye. Judging isn't just for the ministry, which is what one senior minister once told me. This error has led to much backsliding in the church because the members have been afraid to stand up and judge where they have the authority (just like the Republicans in the state legislatures who were afraid of judging the voting illegalities in their states). Otherwise you let evil continue in the house of God where the Kingdom of God should be ruling.
This is one reason why Christ has had to scatter the church, i.e. to bring down this organized suppression of the truth, this secrecy of lawbreaking (anomia; 2 Thess 2:7) among ministers and members in the church, in order to liberate his people from this spiritual decline.
Unless SA has had a repentant attitude lately, he was always claimed his innocence. All the evidence pointed to him being guilty, and yet he continued to say it wasn't him.
It's hard not to judge someone like that. They jury judged and found him guilty (and his condemnation was that he was sentenced to prison). Not death...God will deal with him later
Judge not . . . context shows that we CAN judge the ACTIONS of others but only if you are not guilty of the same sins. We can't judge one's motives, but we can judge their actions.
My own thoughts and understanding is that it is the State or civil government’s responsibility to enforce God’s law ie capital punishment for capital crimes (eg murder, rape, kidnapping, usury, adultery, etc) and multiple restitution and/or corporal punishment for non-capital crimes (eg theft, etc). It is the Church or religious government’s responsibility to teach repentance. So while the murderer would be awaiting his/her execution the church would be leading the offender to repentance. The family and friends of the victim(s) may forgive the offender or choose not to. It’s up to the individual. But, it doesn’t negate God’s penalty as stipulated in His law. Once the offender is executed and restitution is met (ie “eye for an eye”) it’s up to God to judge that individual at the resurrection and whether s/he was truly repentant and saved or not. It’s not our concern. It’s between the Creator and the offender. But, to assert Christians cannot judge the actions (ie fruit) of an offender is untrue otherwise we have nothing to stand on to define what is sin or what punishment it merits. Nor is it true that Christians must always forgive sin. Further, God’s law is focused on restitution not rehabilitation, the victims rights not the offenders rights.
What are you trying to say, 9:59? That the judge is worse than the sinner? Seems like it, both in America and the church, where they try more to "protect" the victim while calling the righteous "self-righteous", as a way of evening things out in their own eyes to make them look fair.
Why do you think we have BOTH judge and jury in our judicial systems? Because the congregation was sanctioned by the Word to participate in the condemnation and punishment of the sinner, since the days of Israel and the early church. Otherwise, the members might side with the sinner. Same with the holy angels. What if they didn't choose sides? More would have been lost to the devil.
No, you don't have an attitude problem, are not self-righteous, are not dividing the church or sowing discord (all the pat charges that our elders pull out of their back pockets in envy, jealousy, ill-will or plain peevishness) when you make right judgments.
If our elders would stop worrying about their corporate image and the repercussions from members daring to speak the truth, maybe the church would make some progress before it's too late. The solution isn't always to keep quiet. The Spirit doesn't just give the apostles and ministers the right to speak and judge.
Covid was a test with a failed grade. What's next?
I believe there is much which could be learned by the ACOGs from cancel culture. This is a good case in point.
It’s not like he committed the biggest sins in COGland. Ya know, the sin of “having a bad attitude” or “not obeying a minister.” Perving on kids? No big deal. Murder? We must overlook it. At least it’s not the unpardonable sin of not attending services for 3 weeks in a row.
Lots of religious perverts seem to think that as long as they do not say anything about other people's sins, then nobody – including Jesus – will say anything about their own sins. They seem to think that they will just quietly go on sinning for all eternity.
I hope that his orphaned son is getting along well after this horrific ordeal.
Right, 4:44, the COGs can learn much if they stopped practicing the cancel culture of this world. (Or is it an American problem primarily?)
See what Christ is doing today?
When we constantly take offence at the Word and shun our own brethren in the church, guess what happens? The world follows suit!
It is meant to disgrace us who are guilty of such sins.
The solution? Stop stewing in envy, jealousy, rivalry, paranoia, hate and anxiety over one bringing you unhappiness. As Paul said, the problem isn't somebody else, the problem is that you are narrowed in your own bowels (2 Cor 6:12; if you can understand that). Narrowing of the bowels is actually a medical condition, surprise, surprise.
You are going to have to collect your senses and use high reason and witnesses to explain why you didn't agree with your brother, why you canceled him out.
We should give heed to this because Christ has already made it known that He will cut off or "cancel" those who disobey Him, in effect give them a taste of their own medicine.
My observation is that it's a self serving bully trait to want to switch off parts of God's creation on occasion. The words "forgiveness," "mercy" and "repentance" are often used with the intent that natural cause and effect will not apply when they sin. People bank on cause and effect to achieve a favorable result, but want it to nullified when they sin. This phenomena has a name. It's called magic thinking.
People who push this via a biblical smoke screen are morally in elementary school.
Interesting comments, 2:50, but that phenomenon is called "being deceived".
Despicable all around are the things he did. Not just murder but adultery too. Read the Fox9 article details. No emotion, either, showing he just didn't care.
Even his kid had evil thoughts at the time his mother was murdered, when he asked dad, "Are you going to remarry?"
This is a sin unto death for which we should not pray. (1 Jn 5:16) And a murderer has no eternal life abiding in him. (1 Jn 3:15) This is what UCG should have quoted, not Mt 7:1.
Come on, UCG. If you respect the verdict based on the evidence, then you accept the verdict based on the evidence. They believed the evidence for adultery, but they didn't believe the evidence for murder?
UCG appears to be attempting damage control, and is coming off as a "whitened sepulchre" or perhaps wishy washy. They need professional guidance in their public relations.
Seems like the Armstrong churches do not have any special protection from murder or suicides in their churches. I can think of several other examples. Terry Ratzmann took several members with him. Don Weininger's murder-suicide with his wife. The PCG lady who killed herself because Flurry made her separate herself from her parents when they left PCG. That weird little guy with the helmet.
Church suicides are documented on a special page over at the Painful Truth.
.
12.01, My 2.50 comment wasn't directed at Stephen Allwine but rather at some of the posters. People want to sin and get away with the crime.
Forgiveness, mercy, healing, etc, is not some get-out-of-jail-free card.
yes indeed, don't we also wisely tell our children to "not get in cars with strangers"? Jesus would hopefully approve of us watching out for wolves & snakes in human clothing, and even a child or any of us scans a safety judgement very often for perverts & rascals, and old WCG even sort of judged wisely at the entrance doorway during sabbath services to basically screen out dangers to our loved ones there. It takes a general judgement often to secure safety eh? so keeping a sharp watchful eye on vile, unsafe, dangerous Steven Allwine is warranted and prudent
was it the late Richard _______ Close? that guy hassled me over how I support Nancy Grace, she had a correct & stern opinion of goons such as Steven Allwine, also this Richard picked at me heavy for how careful I wanted us to be toward his pal & pet "forgiveness project" guy Pierre Carrenard in Ossineke Sing Sing prison after Pierre's pre-COG vicious voodoo killing 30 yrs. ago onto Esperance Labidou, mother of his estranged Hatitian girlfriend (& killed the lady's dog too) who dumped Pierre. Look up the case in news, and now a UCG Deacon the late Richard ________ Close wanted us all to "embrace" this killer guy Mr. Carrenard and Richard would gaslight anyone being cautious of Pierre Carrenard by saying same as mentioned earlier, that, "oh you guys are not showing love to Pierre"
UCG also has confusing situation of single ladies in a singles email club while they still attend sabbath services where their ex-husbands also attend. no amount of "love for the brethren" (for the attending ex-husband/"brethren") can make that goofiness appear correct to newcomers attending
you know what else...this late Richard deftly straddled both his feet one in UCG, & the other in CCOG...riding the teeter-totter in the middle, both organizations which are quite at odds with each other, over mantle, elder/council hierarchy, etc. Both groups were pressed by Richard to be so "loving" onto Steven & Pierre. don't we tell our kids to NOT get in cars with strangers? a kid needs to use a little righteous judgement when seeing a perverty, goony cad lurking near playgrounds or scamming youths on the web. So Nancy Grace is correct, and supporters of mercy/love onto Steven Allwine are bonkers
then there is the odd care for the late Terry Ratzmann too, augghhhh
Numbers 35:31: “Moreover ye shall take no satisfaction for the life of a murderer, which is guilty of death: but he shall be surely put to death.”
You cannot get more simple or clear than that. No exceptions for premeditated murder.
During this Pierre-forgiveness/huggy welcome to church project, we were NEVER asked by Pierre or this Richard to pray for the surviving family members of the lady Pierre stabbed and killed, Esperance Labidou. Pierre only asked us to pray about his prison conditions, and he could have shown genuine converted concern for Esperance's current family by asking us in a COG more to pray for THEM regarding pain & damage the murder caused, instead how we only got prayer requests about Pierre languishing in Sing Sing. A former murderer entering a congregation should occasionally ask for prayers of the surviving suffering family of the victim to show road to conversion or else it looks like a criminal scamming the church's love & care. He & Richard or any of the pollyannna supporters of Pierre will say, "well it will ruin Pierre's chances of appeal or parole if he publicly admits to the murder of Esperance and the pet dog" but her family is getting forgotten when cute care packages get sent to Sing Sing. I hope I didn't just prepare a tip or clue here if Pierre or those like him read this, and they could suddenly start asking, "hey y'all, please pray for my victim's family, I forgot till now".
Does UCG ask our prayers for family of Amy Lutz Allwine, or do they think more toward getting themselves 3rd heaven brownie points in asking for our prayers & love and forgiveness onto crummy Steven Allwine the dogdaygod who had his Bitcoins payment to Amy's would-be assassins and Dark Web links easily uncovered by Minnesota non-COG police public safety servants?
When Steven's son asked Dad if he would remarry, could the son have been cleverly using that question to phish and dig into his Dad's brain for a nanosecond to see for himself if Dad may have pre-planned Amy's killing? Kids think pretty deep sometimes, I know I did years ago at age 11 when I came very close to "stopping" my own playboy pothead Dad after he knocked our hardworking Mom down onto our lawn weeping in the grass when she discovered/confronted him about his adulterous cheatings
before you "lean in that direction" (of forgiving the murderer), how about checking whether your friendly murderer has ever asked his new church or anyone to pray for the surviving family members still grieving for the person our so called repentant new brethren killed? if the ex-killer asks us to pray for family of his victim before asking prayers for himself, then we'll know if there is sincerity or a game played
When Mr. Allwine tells us he "is innocent and couldn't have done it", what he means, is the SAME THING O.J. SAID, it wasn't me. They are secretly claiming that it was "their other me" that did it, their "me" they were recently during their raving fits...their "me" that they claim is "no longer" them. They are playing the Flip Wilson game, "the devil made me do it".
But these leopards don't get to change their spots, not O.J., nor STEVEN ALLWINE
Steven's parents better not be delivering Oreos or Little Debbies or snacks or treats or prison cash or any benefit Steven's parents and friends should be consoling Amy's loved ones instead of for Steven.
you get the gold medal emojis for your astute comment, thanks 🥇
8:45, his son was 9 at the time, not even at the age of moral understanding, but it shows how cursed the kid was while the father was planning the murder, that he should so coldly disregard the dead body at the time and turn his thoughts to a future replacement (when the here-and-now situation was at stake). On top of this (recorded on the 911 call) the murderer had the gall to entertain the kid's query while on the phone. Unlike your situation where you were in the heat of the moment and didn't behave so nonchalantly.
Is this Richard Close of NY/Pa, the auto mechanic? If so, I knew him. He died, did he? I met him in UCG and later saw him in COGWA, not in CCOG. He was a good man.
Re this prisoner Pierre, you make a good point. If he doesn't want to admit to and repent of murder, you can't accept him, just like Allwine who apparently admitted to adultery only. (Now consider this: Did UCG get a confession from Allwine about his adultery directly or did they get it from the police investigator? If they got it from the police only, why accept the evidence for adultery and not for murder? And then tell the church to judge only one sin and not the other?
Another translation of Num 35:31 could read, "You shall not receive or accept any covering or atonement for the life of a murderer", meaning UCG shouldn't be trying to cover up the evidence that he did the murder and is guilty, as though accepting the facts is a bad idea and against the law of God, and that people should be "nice" to a murderer and withhold judgment (even though the judgment is based on good evidence).
Note another factor that impinges on the UCG ministry: The report says that the FBI contacted them 3 months in advance about a possible killing. So you would presume that at least she told someone in the church and the ministry knew about it. If that was the case, they should have been praying and fasting to be delivered from this and not twiddling their fingers. If you don't take your life or another's seriously, it may be taken away from you. If the whole church area would have done this and been vigilant, the devil might have released him from his grip. So now, they weep and ask for pity??
This is what I keep saying. The church is too lukewarm and is being spit out of Christ's mouth. We're not called to live the care-free, self-indulgent life, folks. The Work of God is not about going to the head office with your briefcase and crunching numbers. But if you dare speak out against the establishment you make yourself a target, much like what is happening in America, with the Trump indictments a case in point.
Anonymous at 11:31 AM said...“This is what I keep saying. The church is too lukewarm and is being spit out of Christ's mouth.”
So you think that secretly committing adultery and murdering your wife so you can marry someone else while pretending to be a good UCG minister is behaving in a rather lukewarm fashion?
Both sides could use a little support and ministry in horrible tragedies like this. I'm not saying that I am so spiritually advanced that I wouldn't take sides and just cancel,someone, and throw them away, but within certain structure, in a perfect world, there would be concern for all parties involved. Education must continue so that all can achieve redemption. Or not.
I had a friend with whom I worked every day at AC Press. Without going into details which would identify him, many years later, he killed his wife. It was horrible. He actually spent that entire night with his dead wife, and then called the police on himself. He confessed, pleaded guilty and has been in prison ever since. Presumably, prison is where he will die. I have no idea the circumstances which could have led to this unimaginable event. I feel the pain not only of my friend, but also of his wife and her family. There must have been a flash of anger, and then realization that he had done something unconscionable, hence his confession and plea. I am totally unqualified to be his judge or jury. A musician would be wishing that he could simply unwrite the song. But we can't! I still can't even think of this that often or that deeply. How does everyone in this situation get their redemption, and get made whole? I know. Rhetorical questions. We all make our best judgments and take sides. This is something for which we don't get answers in this lifetime. The danger can be in thinking that we have them.
“Acquitting the guilty and condemning the innocent-- the LORD detests them both” (Proverbs 17:5, NIV).
“Whoever says to the wicked, 'You're in the right,' will be cursed by people and hated by nations” (Proverbs 24:24, NIV).
No wonder the UCG is in so much trouble.
yes it was Richard Close (& he passed away after 2020) but I cannot know if way up this thread whether that Richard ________ is actually R. Close, it seemed to match in my opinion so far, since Mr. Close chastised me for how I wanted to see if Pierre ever had interest for us to pray for the family of Esperance Labidou...before we all began a vigil of huggy lovvy prayer for his UCG forgiveness project, Pierre Carrenard. Mr. Close also poked at me heavy for the way I appreciated crime events podcaster Nancy Grace's disdain she rightfully expressed toward vile, corrupt, disgusting Steven Allwine, who is equal to O.J. (it wasn't me, it was my "other" me)...the devil made me do it
12:01PM said: “Even his kid had evil thoughts at the time his mother was murdered, when he asked dad, ‘Are you going to remarry?’”
I’m sorry but I certainly wouldn’t impute evil to the child based on an innocuous question. Were you personally there or know others who were there when the question was asked and answered and therefore know the context behind it?
The child had clearly been brainwashed by Allwine. Only God knows what Allwine was saying, behaving and planning at the diner he'd taken the child to AFTER brutally cold heartedly murdering his wife.
He'd clearly had this in his heart for years.
Domestic violence towards women has been an silent epidemic throughout COG organisations for many decades.
For crying out loud, you are presenting us the "gentler side" of Steven Allwine, O.J., your A.C. Press friend, Ariel Castro, Israel Keyes, Ted Bundy, C. Manson, A. Hitler, Josef Mengele, etc. & that we could show them a little support, a little ministry, help make them whole, not throw them away, listen a moment to their song whewww. None of us are throwing Steven Allwine away, we are safely keeping him at bay...we are hoping that jail will protect any next wife he may have tried to marry out here from among us. She, and now dead Amy, are from among us, but Steven Allwine marked himself to now no longer be one of us...he threw himself away, we did not throw him anywhere except away from other women he'd date/marry.
So Amy's death, and the death of the wife of AC Press man, and Nicole Brown Simpson's, and JonBenet Ramsey's, and the deaths of 1940's 6,000,000 Jews, and those shot by Eric Harris, Dylan Klebold, Ethan Crumbley, James Eagan Holmes/the Joker costumed Colorado theatre killer are all just a song we wish their songwriter could unwrite?
Steven Allwine & Pierre Carrenard threw themselves away, we are not throwing them away...they are being held back now away from our nieces, nephews, granddaughters, grandsons, aunts, uncles, loved ones, etc.
Steven Allwine HIMSELF would prefer Israel Keyes or Josef Mengele or Ethan Crumbley be kept away from his own son the daughter of dear Amy, she who was once a fellow A.C. classmate of my friend who now bravely serves as an Elder in Serbia who grieves with us over the senseless loss of Amy Lutz Allwine. The killing of her was no "song" that needs to be unwritten by it's writer... it was the result of a carefully, thoughtfully planned choice made by a bungling, inept, selfish goon who has the mentality of Salome the vile stepdaughter of King Herod Antipas (she's one of the few examples in bible regarding birthday presents).
It is no danger in thinking we have the answers on how to keep our loved ones safe now from Steven Allwine (or from O.J.) eh?
3:08, I think you might have been referring to Pr 18:5 (not 17:5); "It is not good to respect the face of the wicked (in order) to overthrow the righteous in judgment". This has happened countless times in the COGs where the ministers play the favourites. These deceived elders (and don't you dare call them "deceived") cannot in good conscience go against the judgment of a credentialed elder or friend or the corporation that pays them so their hearts turn in contempt for the lower-ranking sheep, the easy scapegoats that should carry all the blame. They certainly can't put their wives, salaries, houses, reputation, corporate standing at risk, can they? And of course where is Christ in all this? At the bottom of the list for many of you.
8:56, sorry to hear R. Close died. I once prayed with him at midnight during the Feast when his roommate fell very ill. As for the other Richard, no doubt it's not the same person. He wouldn't have made such a short snappy, peevish comment as that. What was he suggesting? Forgiveness for UCG or the murderer? There's no forgiveness for the murderer if he doesn't repent. It doesn't matter what you say, do or feel. As Paul did with fornicator (an equal sin) in the church, you just put them out and deliver such to Satan (1 Cor 5:5). Enough said. As you said, you don't bring cookies or even pray for them. (1 Jn 5:16) And you don't tell your church to "Judge not" a murderer when he's already been convicted by the world.
I can understand your comments about Mr. Close. He wasn't a highly educated man but that doesn't matter. Those actions are typical of many in the church who lack wisdom to make sound judgments about things that are good or evil. You can pray for a stranger but it is God who judges the world. As for Grace's condemnation of the murder, Close may have been trying to promote the other side of the matter, the saving of the spirit (1 Cor 5:5) rather than the delivering to Satan.
Not desiring to end on this bad note, I want to urge the COGs to grow up and start caring about your fellow sheep, and stop walking around with vendettas, grudges and the evil eye. You're not battling with flesh and blood enemies but with wicked spirits that are more clever than you, who want to throw you off your spiritual foundation, which is in Christ, and take away your inheritance in the Kingdom.
You completely missed the point, 2:09. I didn't say that UCG members were obligated to be there for Steve or Pierre. Sometimes the entire families of these criminals want nothing to do with them. Some offenders have a lifelong pattern of crimes. It's a pathology. Others commit one huge crime that hurts many people. How do they get their redemption? Like we all do. Somewhere along the way, they must realize and accept responsibility for the error of their ways.
Years ago, when a few WCG ex-ministers started frequenting our forums and blogs, many people trashed them as if they had committed the unpardonable sin and were making us their codependents. I asked the same question, which was how are they to get their redemption? We got ours, why should we prevent them from getting theirs? That was hard for many to rationalize, even though these ministers had reached the same identical conclusions as the rest of us. Who knew back then that actual active ministers in the movement would be participating in the discussions here today? I believe we as a group have matured enough that we realize that their presence allows us to further analyze the psychology behind their remaining. So far, the ones participating are not inherently evil, although their work perpetuates a very toxic and evil system. It was not the toxic and evil ones who initially attracted us to Armstrongism. Nobody deliberately joins a cult. It was the nice people who drew us in, who honestly believed they had found an all-purpose solution for life!
I usually don't comment on topics involving criminology these days. At one time, I knew a lot of criminals. So, my comments are based on the actual experiences of one of my relatives, as well as several close friends. Most people who commit crimes never find their redemption, although some succeed in faking it. Recidivism rates are not encouraging. Every once in a while, some defy the odds, and it's usually because someone did not give up on them.
Laodicea Era?
The Worldwide Church of God exploded into little pieces around the 1995 apostasy by the Tkaches.
After the big UCG-COGWA splinter group split around 2010, none of the splinter groups is even one-tenth of the size of the WCG at its peak.
Some splinter groups are even led by Satan's false prophets such as Flurry and Pack, and bad people go along with it.
All the splinter groups seem to be full of lots of sinners sinning badly.
The splinter groups all seem to think that they are doing so great even though they are actually doing very badly.
Is this the Laodicea era of the church?
Can criminals repent and change? Christ rebuked cities for not doind so, hence the capacity is there. But it's a lifelong struggle that few persevere with. Most fail. There are occasional stories in psychology magazines about a criminal who changed, but as other professionals point out, close inspection reveals that they only changed to a limited degree rather than fundamentally. Under stress, they revert to their previous behaviors. Anyone who becomes friends with a church member who has supposedly "bitterly repented" needs to always be on guard with such a person. They can never be trusted.
All this debate. Steven Allwine will face Jesus Christ on the ultimate judgment seat, as we all will. That is between Allwine and Jesus Christ. The Lord will make the ultimate decision.
What Allwine has to and shall face in this lifetime is the 'law of the land'. That is justice and Allwine living in denial is fooling none but himself.
It would be better for him to admit, repent and try and do some kind of 'good' in prison. Many in the church think the 'law of the land' is not for them but it is.
UCG is full of ableists and pastors who let bad people get away with things.
Lack of Good Judgment
The basic problem is that the UCG is completely, totally, utterly unable to judge between right and wrong, except just barely enough to always consistently do the wrong, support the wicked, and kick out their victims.
Post a Comment