Most of us here experienced the great upheaval that hit the Worldwide Church of God in the 1990s with its rejection of certain extra-biblical teachings and doctrines of Herbert W Armstrong. Regardless of where your sympathies were on either side of these changes, they were traumatic and not well thought out when they are announced. It was assumed by many in leadership positions that the majority of the church members would blindly follow along because they had had "church government" shoved down their throats for decades and would not rebel en mass as so many did.
Most of us watched as various men who always thought themselves far more enlightened than regular members beat their chests in self-righteous indignation and claimed they were taking up the mantle of truth the WCG was rejecting to preserve the truth once delivered. Each one was always more deserving of followers than the previous chest thumper.
One of the most prominent groups to break off during this time was those that started the United Church of God. What was most galling about this event is that far too many of the ministers leading up to the changes and for a while afterward, while still on WCG payroll, pretended to follow and enforce WCG edicts as changes were slowly happening. These same men kicked out lots of members for disagreeing with the various changes while they themselves were having questions about the changes. A divide in loyalties was quickly happening in Pasadena and within the ministry. In Pasadena many of these men soon started to gather on and off campus in various ministers' homes to plan how they could take as many members, mailing lists, church inventory, and as much money as they could to start a new splinter group.
Most of these men had never worked a full day of manual labor outside the privileged lifestyle of a paid dark-suited church employee and were fearful of now having to get real jobs to provide for their families to live on during the transition they were planning. Gone would be the ministerial perks of $5,000 Feast allocations and tax deductions they were so privileged to partake of over the previous decades. Life was going to be tough for these guys and they knew it. But, with good planning and locations to start gathering tithe money of unhappy WCG members, they knew they could raise the money they needed to transfer over from one paid job to another keeping their important lifestyle intact.
For far too many of these men who started splinter groups, it was not so much really about preserving doctrine but a means of preserving income. Church teachings and doctrines came second.
Scores of books, articles, and video programs were made by men on both sides of the issue justifying their stances on why the changes were made and why those that started new groups had the right to do so. Most members read and watched these men while many times rolling their eyes at the stuff they were hearing, yet switched groups over and over till they found a group that satisfied their perceived needs.
This brings us to today as we have Victor Kubik telling his version of that story. Like far too many other COG men who authored stories, it comes across as self-righteous justification or martyrdom for the truth as they saw it.
Kubik currently has three editions of his version of the United Church of God story up to read. He started his series in mid-May 2023.
I am curious as to what those that read here think about his version.
Chapter 1 The Genesis of the United Church of God
25 comments:
Once again, (I did briefly read those 3 chapters by Vic Kubic), although I saw reference to holydays, sabbath, clean and unclean, doctrines ----- Armstrong, Tkach, bosses .... BUT don't recall ever seeing one reference to Jesus, Yashua, or whatever. Seems more like business shenanigans reaching for power and control. Jockeying for position and 'righteousness'. I love to read the letters from Paul, and he ALWAYS placed Jesus and the Father in the front row.
“At its peak it was a vibrant global church……….”
But one built on sand…..as witnessed by it’s soundly discredited doctrines like BI among many.
But especially by its highly dysfunctional and disunited ‘ministry’.
This huge disunity and often open hostility towards their fellow groups, is on display by the hundreds of splinters within the Armstrong factions.
It is the complete opposite to what Jesus Christ came to preach and proclaim to humanity.
Following Jesus was never part of any of these men when they spoke out about the changes. Many of these men never knew him while in WCG and certainly do not to this day.
Exit and Support Network has a great review of the UCG splinter group:
"While United Church of God outwardly gives the appearance of a “nice, friendly, laid back, non-controlling church,” interested in social issues of the day, they use propaganda and psychological manipulation to cause others to come to the conclusion that in order to be “fully committed to God” and to enter into eternal life they must believe and put into practice all that “God’s Church” teaches/commands, and that they must not ever depart from these teachings (“truths”). “Obedience to God’s law (i.e., the Mosaic Law) is required of those who will receive the gift of eternal life.”4 Those who join UCG do not associate closely with former friends and family members (those “in the world”) who do not espouse the same beliefs. Members’ entire lives revolve around “the Church” and they are expected to marry “in the church” (UCG).
Former members and exiters of UCG have testified of spiritual abuse, suffering and exploitation, and having to go through a very difficult exiting process and recovery."
Read WHAT YOU SHOULD KNOW ABOUT UNITED CHURCH OF GOD-AIA. https://exitsupportnetwork.com/what-you-should-know-about-united-church-of-god-aia/#Safety
Organized religion and politics are inseparable. Don't trust any organization or the people who work for one.
In "showdown" in Admin bldg Tkach is like "look what I've done for you" ( giving you a big rank, salary & perks). "so chill out man, take the money and go with the flow.."
Tkach would be proven right: his denomination GCI has 30,000 while UCG shrinks to 7000 - probably half that now - would be lucky to have 3,000 members now, especially after recent brutal refutations of their British-Israelism nonsense.
And readers are expected to perceive NO2HWA as a man who left WCG decades ago ? Why so invested into Kubic's latest writing ? How do you know specifically about ministerial perks and the exact amount ??
The UCG boasts of having 22K members on their website. I think that number is their mailing list (not their membership). If they have 22K members how come most of the congregations throughout the U.S. are only about 25-50 people? And that's if everyone shows up. Most people drive several miles just to get to a congregation.
Unless they have thousands overseas like some other(s) claim to have? They are lying. I never trusted this organization from the beginning. I was already in another splinter when this group formed (seemingly out of nowhere). Just because the majority of the ministers and members when with them, doesn't make them right!
"One last-try effort was made by a group of ministers, who appealed for fairness and peace, together with the opportunity to continue prior beliefs.."
This implies that Kubic & Co were willing to horse-trade with Tkach to retain a core of Armstrong's Judaistic-gospel--by perhaps even tossing British-Israelism under a bus (the doctrine that founded the WCG)--in order to retain a shell of Armstrong's (equally shaky) sabbatarianism?
It is certain that the UCG has about 7000 USA members. They do however appear to have several thousand overseas people, especially in Angola.
The revolution of 1995, for the UCG, basically (like the Magna Carta) empowered the "nobles", those who were ordained. Technically, the only "members" or the UCG are the ordained ministry. Ray Wooten advocated a more empowered congregational model, with local boards, local money collection, and oversight over the ministers by the elected board from the laity. It would have been more of a United Churches of God (note; plural) , and a confederation of believers, with the enfranchisement of the laity.
Although given much lip service and commitment at the time, the UCG quickly dissolved into an oligarchy. The original idea of a very small home office was trashed, and Ray Wooten left the board and the UCG in disgust within 8 months of its founding. It is sad the the Wooten concepts did not take hold. It is self evident that the paid ministers of the UCG were NEVER going to find themselves accountable to the brethren, especially in regards to being paid, or performance evaluated.
The serfs continue to be on the plantation, albeit , with kinder masters in general than the WCG. Now conditioned to the status quo, older and tired, the current laity of UCG will not now find the will or vision to have a liberating "Declaration of Independence" where "all men are created equal"
Kubik is not a good writer.
Good description and info, Tonto. I remember talk of servant leadership in the early days of UCG, but you don't hear that anymore as the ministry felt they were not receiving the proper deference. I thought there would have been more discussion on servant leadership in UCG after the COGWA ministers defected.
Kubik is not a good writer.
Good description and info, Tonto. I remember talk of servant leadership in the early days of UCG, but you don't hear that anymore as the ministry felt they were not receiving the proper deference. I thought there would have been more discussion on servant leadership in UCG after the COGWA ministers defected.
None of these COGs can survive the Internet. No church can. Unless you only listen to THEIR Web podcasts.
E.g.: Catholic priests complain about the Internet -- no constructive discourse! That's probably because questioning things is not good for faith.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELOn4Xkiluc
With respect to the numbers UCG cites, I suspect it is just like the Seventh Day Adventists. Once you are on their rolls, you never come off. They have found members in the Caribbean, who were Adventist at one time, but left...still on the membership roll decades later. There are hundreds of folks still on the rolls who would be upwards of 150 years old! They NEVER remove you from membership, because that would spell trouble for the church. Resources, salary and bragging rights, among other reasons, keep long gone or even dead people in the system forever. Some SDAs have had to request their name be removed 4 and 5 times, but still they are on the books.
This is such a HWA/Thiel thing to do. When you cannot earn respect, even among your "brethren", just make it up and then brag about its' size and existence. Just watch...I suspect by his annual year end "look what I did" report in December, Thiel will claim to have ADDED members, not lost any (all but people who share his last name).
That magic 30% per year number lives in the forefront of their minds more than Jesus ever has or will unfortunately.
6:52 - I suspect this is what Feazell referred to when he claimed a group of pastors proposed allowing "two kinds of congregations" under the WCG umbrella.
I do not believe Kubik's assertion about a breakaway organization not being planned up till that point. They surely didn't put all their eggs in one basket like that. Even ministurds weren't automatically that dumb. Granted, many couldn't see over their own egos, but come on.
When ancient Israel asked for a king, God warned them of the consequences. For instance, in 1 Samuel 8:14 "And he will take the best of your fields, your vine yards, and your olive groves and give them to his servants,"
This applies to today's ACOGs ministers. The plundering takes the form of lording it over their members and robbing them of their rights. Ministers treat members lives as their personal property.
Alas, another apologist (Kubik this time) just has to "set the record straight".
Cue John Lennon's "Gimme some Truth!"
Clue is in the description of Israel.
Such a cowardly hypocrite "Tonto" or should that be "Connie" or should that be "stoned Stephen" so brave, so bold behind a computer screen that is actually PAID FOR BY UCG. How's the hypocrisy going?
Kubik speaks in glowing terms of the 120k membership & $50m media push...
Actually, these stats are contradictory as Tkach Jr recently revealed that HWA's massive media spending was necessary to compensate for constant titheslave-burnout
HWA's abusive cult having actually turned over 500,000 recruits in its short lifespan!
Whenever I read a membership stat from an Acog, I apply the divide-by-two-correction-factor:
Thus: "UCG membership 7000" becomes actual-UCG-membership = 3500 (and falling)
This is just a worldly event. Religious denominations form, break up, and re-form all the time. These events can be surrounded by machinations, propaganda, plots and stratagems. Its stems from the general human condition - people doing what they think will benefit them. This all shows us that the WCG was just another denomination organizationally. There were no drum rolls in heaven when this all went down. No portents in the sky. Just a bunch of men doing what men do. That's really the only meaningful "take away".
Hawk
Whenever I read comments written with clear authority that only ministry know, I apply the 'rebels from within the ministry' factor.
Apostasy in WCG and in UCG
The apostate Tkaches could be pretty nasty. Firing Worldwide Church of God ministers for simply believing what they had been taught by Herbert W. Armstrong and paid by him to preach probably surprised some of the ministers. The members who looked to headquarters were surprised too, and disappointed.
Similar things happened later in the UCG splinter group. True believers were expelled while godless perverts were welcomed in and supported under the guise of “showing love” to them. The idea that true love was keeping God's commandments had been replaced by other ideas. A hostile takeover attempt by the wicked resulted in ministers being fired and forced to just walk away and form COGWA.
The WCG apostates eventually openly threw out of the WCG virtually everything that HWA had taught. The WCG then quickly collapsed.
The UCG apostates took a different approach and allowed unrepentant, unconverted unbelievers to attend and behave as badly as they wanted to.
If nothing else, this blog entry confirms that the basic ethos of the Armstrong culture of little subgroups is alive and well. They are ravenous wolves, and still eat their own.
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